Guild Wars 2

So I’ve been playing GW2 for a couple months now and I have to say I’m loving it. WvW is fantastic and no other game has a better leveling process than GW2. However, I’m a little thrown off by the high end pve, dungeons and fractals. Forgetting about stacking, which I think is the most absurd thing in this game, I don’t fully understand why they got rid of the tank/dps/healer trinity.

In other mmo’s I’ve played in the past, I’ve always played the tank or healer role because I felt I was contributing far more to the group than if I went for a dps role. You know you did your job as a tank if you kept aggro 100% of the time and you know you did your job as a healer if the group didn’t wipe. But as a dps’er, you can’t gauge your contribution unless you have a dps meter, and even if you did you really didn’t make the “plays” that saved the day.

I understand the dev’s getting rid of the usual trinity, but as we all know this basically pigeon-holes everyone into a full zerker glass cannon build if they are to be viable. That’s what I have a problem with. It’s not so much that they got rid of tanks and healers but rather they forced everyone to play dps, which for a lot of us isn’t very appealing. With that logic whats better than 5 warriors dropping 100b every time its off cd.

Then the dev’s introduced the idea of condis (which we know isn’t as effective as power and crits) and boons. While useful, my problem with boons is that they really aren’t “plays” that save the day, except for maybe aegis. Regeneration isn’t as strong as hot’s in other mmo’s and aegis blocks the NEXT attack, not blocks all attacks for X seconds. The only “saves” I can really think of if rezzing your allies.

Therefore, some people may try to run builds that are non full zerker, such as anchor guardian or condi healing necro. But they will always be criticized and eventually the person behind the keyboard starts thinking “am I short changing myslef?”

Sorry about the rant, but am I right about this and is high end pve just not for people like me? Or am I wrong and there are non glass cannon builds that are not only viable but preferred?

When you say things like “they forced everyone to play dps” and “whats better than 5 warriors dropping 100b” it’s pretty hard to take you seriously.

The point is – in this game you are expected to fulfill the roles of damage, control and support. You’re not thrown in to one role, you’re expected to pull your weight in all three departments. It just so happens that it’s possible to control and support in offensive gear, so people comfortable enough with the game’s mechanics choose to wear it so that they can maximise their damage output.

Secondly, warrior DPS is utterly average and a thief or ele completely wipe the floor with hundred blades.

If you want to put up with “lf healer” and being forced to play certain roles, then play another game. If you prefer instead to have a game where almost every single class is good in dungeons and can fulfill the roles of damage, support and control, and you’re willing to be flexible, then GW2 is the game for you.

It truly astounds me that almost two years since the game came out and ANet wrote in a blog that the new “trinity” is damage, support and control, people are still complaining that there are no tanks and healers.

PLAY ANOTHER GAME.

Dunecoon.5134:

I don’t fully understand why they got rid of the tank/dps/healer trinity.

But as a dps’er, you can’t gauge your contribution unless you have a dps meter, and even if you did you really didn’t make the “plays” that saved the day.

Sorry about the rant, but am I right about this and is high end pve just not for people like me? Or am I wrong and there are non glass cannon builds that are not only viable but preferred?

Basically the problem revolves around your experiences as a gamer, I assume you’re not very versatile in terms of multiple genres if you don’t understand their general direction for combat.

As for the “saves the day” argument. You feel the extreme need for someone to be dependent on you? That’s just not right…If you want to stand out do it with your individual skills rather than having a system in the game do it for you.

Liking and disliking the “no trinity” system is another story and is simply left to personal preference.

Ah this argument again.. there are so many other mmos that do this.. why not play them? The makers of GW2 have one that’s free to play. At least when I log into GW2, my chat isn’t spammed with.. looking for healer.. tank.. dps.. every second. The flexibility and the independence of each professional allows a group to play together without the vital missing trinity that would be quite limiting. It encourages interdependence rather than total dependence of having a certain class or profession on your team.

There are meta builds just like meta builds in any other games. No one is forced to use them but if you want to play optimally, then a player would choose such builds. This is not something new to GW2.

When you join generic PUG groups, no one really cares what you’re running. Go cleric guard if it makes you happy, but expect slow runs. The rest of the party will probably be doing something similar, so you won’t be dragging them down very often.

If you want to contribute to fast runs, full zerk is just about the only real way.

hendo.1940:

When you say things like “they forced everyone to play dps” and “whats better than 5 warriors dropping 100b” it’s pretty hard to take you seriously.

The point is – in this game you are expected to fulfill the roles of damage, control and support. You’re not thrown in to one role, you’re expected to pull your weight in all three departments. It just so happens that it’s possible to control and support in offensive gear, so people comfortable enough with the game’s mechanics choose to wear it so that they can maximise their damage output.

Secondly, warrior DPS is utterly average and a thief or ele completely wipe the floor with hundred blades.

If you want to put up with “lf healer” and being forced to play certain roles, then play another game. If you prefer instead to have a game where almost every single class is good in dungeons and can fulfill the roles of damage, support and control, and you’re willing to be flexible, then GW2 is the game for you.

It truly astounds me that almost two years since the game came out and ANet wrote in a blog that the new “trinity” is damage, support and control, people are still complaining that there are no tanks and healers.

PLAY ANOTHER GAME.

Harsh…

But I DO understand there’s a trinity of damage, support, and control (except I’m not 100% sure about the point of control since you can’t hard CC bosses), I’m not arguing that. I do understand that If you’re build can give out boons X and Y to your allies you better kitten well be spamming these whenever theyre off cd, all while dpsing the hell out of mobs. But maybe I should have rephrased myself… I’m not talking about being pigeon holed into a dps role (I understand everyone should be doing all 3 roles), but rather being pigeon holed into fell zerker gear.

For example warrior’s are fully expected to “support” the group with their shouts and banners. But there’s a huge stigma against traiting for healing shouts and heaven forbid they put on some clerics to boost their healing shouts. Or look at staff ele’s. They’re known to have the best healing skills in the game in water attunement, but even they’re expected to go full zerker. Why is that?

I’ve never played guardian but I still can’t understand with all their blocks, reflects, and other defensive skills in all PVT why they can’t play anchor. I’ll admit I still have a lot to learn about the dynamics of this game but that’s why I post on the forums.

You can hard CC them, but not necessary everytime.
Buff in other games, let’s say WoW, you use buff to, but often they are kind of a fire and forget types of skills and stay on the target for like 10/20/30/60 minutes and are minor, stackable stat buffs anyway. Debuffs are more active, but still lingering for a while.
Because healing shouts sucks in a zerker group. Join a “friendly” group and you will be wellcomed with all those pvt and cleric characters.
“They’re known to have the best healing skills in the game in water attunement[…]”
You mean waterfields which is available to multiple classes and can’t be blasted by multiple classes to get better benefit as zerker compared to full healing power oriented characters?
Because there isn’t any traditional agro system in the game, thats why.

Go back to whatever holy trinity game you played or get used to this system. It’s just a friendly advice, don’t feel offended. Just a little you know. ;D

edit: Anet advertised the game way before release that they won’t ever had a traditional tank-heal-dps setup. Instead that they went with a support-control-damage trio. I wonder why people are still surprised by that. Look up what you purchase people!

Oh but there is holy trinity in this game, just take a look to everyday LFG advertisements. Its guardian, warrior and ele.

Full zerker requirement is usually for speed clear groups. Most casual players are against zerker and usually play how they want including builds and gears. You can pretty much get into any groups that isn’t looking for a speed clear with any build or gear. If you want efficient running, then of course everyone is expected to be in their meta build/gear.. otherwise you are being carried. This would hold true for any game. Leechers.. I do believe it’s what it’s called.

Perhaps because of the friendly community that GW2 has.. more so than other games I have played, it brings forth a sense of entitlement. After all, we don’t fight over resources, we are rewarded for reviving dead players, and we are suppose to be helpful. So when there’s expectations to join speed groups, some get offended by the idea that they must meet a certain requirement. They refuse to change their subpar build and gear yet be part of a group that works towards maximum efficiency. No one is really forcing them to change but they cry outrage because they can’t be part of a certain group calling them elitists and other things. Most so-called elitists I have met are very open, helpful, and love to share their knowledge with others.

No one is pigeon-holing anyone.. because you can get into most average groups with no gear check, nor the expectation of running a zerker gear a requirement. However, if you do want a speed run, then yes.. it’s to be expected. Which makes quite of bit of sense as it’s been proven that dps is the most optimal way right now in PVE. As for aggro, it’s randomly generated.. toughness can increase the chance you get the aggro.. but it’s not fail proof.. hence.. it’s hard to be an anchor or tank.

Harsh…

I’m sure you think you’re the first to have raised this “issue”, but it’s brought up on the forums every single day by people who haven’t got a clue how combat in guild wars 2 works, and then when repeatedly educated otherwise, they completely blank the posts which tell them that and carry on ranting about the game being just about DPS.

But I DO understand there’s a trinity of damage, support, and control (except I’m not 100% sure about the point of control since you can’t hard CC bosses)

(6:20 to 7:15 and 10:50 to 12:20)

Also, when I soloed Arah p2 on mesmer just now, you get to make heavy use of CC against the abomination, shaving defiant off and then stunning the enrage.

CC exists in this game, it’s just your average player is going to be pointlessly smashing their control skills.

For example warrior’s are fully expected to “support” the group with their shouts and banners. But there’s a huge stigma against traiting for healing shouts and heaven forbid they put on some clerics to boost their healing shouts. Or look at staff ele’s. They’re known to have the best healing skills in the game in water attunement, but even they’re expected to go full zerker. Why is that?

Because the healing isn’t needed and by building your character like that you’re giving up damage modifiers from traiting. You go full glass because you should be mitigating damage through dodging, blocks and invulnerability, not heals.

I’ve never played guardian but I still can’t understand with all their blocks, reflects, and other defensive skills in all PVT why they can’t play anchor

The whole idea of “anchor guardian” died about a year ago. The truth is, it’s just not needed since while everybody is relying on each other for support, they don’t need to rely so heavily on anyone that they actually need an anchor.

Though if you don’t want to use berserker … don’t. If you write a generic “lfm path 3” lfg, you’re not going to get gear checked. Or at least I know of all the times i’ve done it (which is most days when I do Arah) I have never checked anyone, and they have never checked my gear unless it’s because they watched me solo Lupicus and wanted to know what I was using.

Sure, berserker is optimal – and there will always be an optimal choice in games – but it doesn’t mean you have to use it yourself.

Karolis.4261:

Oh but there is holy trinity in this game, just take a look to everyday LFG advertisements. Its guardian, warrior and ele.

Actually, people in LFG only ask for Eles on AC. They traditionally ask for Guard, Warrior and Mesmer.

Either way, compared to other team comps, that’s subpar.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Karolis.4261:

Oh but there is holy trinity in this game, just take a look to everyday LFG advertisements. Its guardian, warrior and ele.

Actually, people in LFG only ask for Eles on AC. They traditionally ask for Guard, Warrior and Mesmer.

Either way, compared to other team comps, that’s subpar.

Ok, make it Guardian/Warrior/Mesmer if u wish, I believe everyone gets the picture. And it doesn’t matter if its subpar or not, its the way our general LFG community is. Thieves, Rangers, Engineers and necros are more then often looked down upon.

hendo.1940:

CC exists in this game, it’s just your average player is going to be pointlessly smashing their control skills.

When people say there is no CC in this game they mean they really want to stunlock everything on their hambow war spamming all buttons the way they do in PVP/wvwvw. If it’s not complete constant stunlock easy mode then it’s not CC.