Guild Wars 2

This is something that’s been bugging me for months now. In a party that has at least 1 ele and 1 thief, this happens:

Rotation 1
- Ele uses Deep Freeze + Storm
- Thief spams Headshot stripping defiance
- Either Thief picks up 2nd Icebow and does DF + Storm
- Or, yells at someone in the party to use DF + Storm for him

Rotation 2
- Ele Deep Freeze + Storm
- Whoever picked up the 2nd icebow unloads Storm at the same time as the 1st ele

Is the dps downtime for the thief to manage defiance and channel 2nd DF worth it, or simply doing one DF + 2xStorm will net you higher burst?

I have been seeing Rotation 1 happen more and more in “meta” pug runs as well as in more organized casual guild speedruns. My theory is that stripping defiance, picking up IB and channeling 2nd DF is a dps loss even when Tempest Defence’s 20% – better simply do one DF and 2x Storm (or more) while the boss is disabled by the 1st DF.

Are my suspicions valid or am I simply full of kittens and should let puggies do as they want?

deep freeze is exploit enjoy ur ban

stambogalizi.8356:

deep freeze is exploit enjoy ur ban

Already enjoying it (my main accnt is perma banned…)

XD

Whenever I see Thiefs run d/p on Bosses i die a little inside.

Everything above double freeze (wich can be done without pistol offhand) is not worth it imho.

We looked at this awhile back. Rotation 1 is very much inferior in terms of DPS. The advantages are that it makes things easier in terms of survival for most of the party, so I wouldn’t necessarily consider it a bad thing in PUG runs—dead PUGs don’t DPS and all

But in organized runs, there ought to be no reason to do it, excepting very niche cases like Captain Ashym, where you might want the extra CC so you can benefit from Impact sigils.

frifox.5283:

- Thief spams Headshot stripping defiance

That’s 1 bad way to do it.
There’s literally no reason to use pistol in combat after trait rework.
Just Basilik Venom, Scorpion Wire + Steal and guard/mes/war remove last stack.
You can even drop Scorpion Wire if better coordination and other people remove last 2.
This way Thief loses no dps.
And to answer your question, if your group has proper dps then a 2nd freeze isn’t needed but if average group then 2nd freeze will help a lot dps and surviability wise.
There’s of course obvious exceptions where double freeze is a must, like Mossman.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

frifox.5283:

- Thief spams Headshot stripping defiance

That’s 1 bad way to do it.
There’s literally no reason to use pistol in combat after trait rework.
Just Basilik Venom, Scorpion Wire + Steal and guard/mes/war remove last stack.
You can even drop Scorpion Wire if better coordination and other people remove last 2.
This way Thief loses no dps.
And to answer your question, if your group has proper dps then a 2nd freeze isn’t needed but if average group then 2nd freeze will help a lot dps and surviability wise.
There’s of course obvious exceptions where double freeze is a must, like Mossman.

Pretty much this as I see it, double DF isn’t bad, thief offhand pistol is. Thief can have D/D and have 3 CCs, if your group can’t come up with 2 other CC’s you’re in a pretty funky group.

Engi I have 2-3 depending (both power and condi). Mesmer I have a handful of them. Warrior has a few, guardian has at least one, Ele has a few depending on build, Necro has 2-3, Ranger has some… basically there should be some somewhere and stripping it as a team isn’t all that tough. Designate someone for the last couple stacks (generally thief or someone who has a few on hand) and then the team works together to strip the first couple leaving the last 1 or 2 for the designated person. I find that makes the organization quite easy without having to call them out in voice chat. Just an understanding that when it gets to 1-3 everyone but the designated person stops.

Of course this is all going away in a few weeks

Why D/P when you can P/P? Ranged defiance strip and superior scholar bonus uptime, win win

how u NOT chain deep freeze arch diviner? :c

RSLongK.8961:

how u NOT chain deep freeze arch diviner? :c

At the top he phases before you can get a 2nd freeze off, at the bottom you can just use aegis for the amount of time he isn’t frozen. Or bring out an earth ele.

SlyDevil.3952:

RSLongK.8961:

how u NOT chain deep freeze arch diviner? :c

At the top he phases before you can get a 2nd freeze off, at the bottom you can just use aegis for the amount of time he isn’t frozen. Or bring out an earth ele.

I do all that and still need a 2nd freeze. I guess i gotta pug less.

For the second Archdiviner fight, during his first 50% HP, you shouldn’t need it since his attack rotation is extremely simple to react to (auto attack → auto attack → AoE fields → auto attack → auto attack → AoE…), so just dodge, aegis etc.

you only need 1 cc for Archdiviner to get his stacks to 0 if you know how his selfstun works and this is mostly done by a warrior

Mesmer + Rotation 2 = Love
Also I take this word from my bro to heart: “You take Deep Freeze only when it either kills lives or save lives. No other ways around it.” There are bosses when Deep Freeze at 60% HP or later is much more beneficial than trying to get a double DF early. But I guess that only reserves to those with experience.

perry.9645:

Whenever I see Thiefs run d/p on Bosses i die a little inside.

Everything above double freeze (wich can be done without pistol offhand) is not worth it imho.

Ugh.

I was abused in a pug group the other day for not running d/p on all the bosses. Apparently d/d was terrible for dps too, and using it was silly because of defiance, whatever that means. I was eventually told to use headshot until Archidiviner had no stacks, or they’d kick me, forgetting that we had a mesmer and ele in the group who could help out if they wanted.

But no, i’m just the defiance stripper and should keep my silly opinions to myself.

HwaRyun.1807:

But no, i’m just the defiance stripper and should keep my silly opinions to myself.

Well, if they scolded you for not being D/P they’re terrible. You can clear defiance just fine with Basilisk Venom and Steal, and if you need to get a 4th stack Scorpion’s Wire. If the entire rest of your team cannot manage the last stack in 20 seconds then they’re bad enough that they wouldn’t gain anything from a second deep freeze anyway.

No idea if double freeze is good or bad but in my party defiance is usually down when I finish channeling 4 with second freeze landing instantly when boss tries to move. Kill times with different thief setups are not noticeable enough in normal daily run.