Guild Wars 2

A big step in the right direction.

Hopefully next patch you’ll clear out some of the BS pulls that everyone skips, like the 8-silver pack in CM Asura.

Brutal Arts.6307:

“Magic Find”

I appreciate you attempting to improve your previously horrible dungeon loot but encouraging Magic Find is quite possibly the worst approach.

This x1000.

Make dungeons fun while wearing <gasp> the good gear you provide in dungeons? Gear that you get while wearing gear that is appropriate to your class/spec, not green MF gear and frustrating your teammates in to quitting the run.

There Anet. Saved you the time of figuring out a solution.

I really don’t like to be forced to wear magic find to have the best shot at loots in a dungeon.

Magic Find as a stat is abysmal and a horrible blemish on the game currently; forcing me to wear it in dungeons now just makes me angry and frustrates me. My legendary is now less appealing than my crappy green magic find gear.

I know technically I don’t have to wear MF gear, but i’m too pressured to wear MF now that I am being forced.

Get rid of magic find and get it out of my dungeons.

Having magic find affecting the loots will cause people to only group up with others who are wearing magic find gears. Given that most magic find comes with stats like power and precision, everyone will be running a glass cannon build in dungeons. This is not balanced.

It obviously too late now for this patch since it’s live and you didn’t gather any feedback regarding mf, but I seriously hope you read and think about the issues mf presents with unique loot in dungeons, the longevity of dungeons, the frustration things like this create on PuGs, and hopefully change it accordingly in future patches.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Hey Folks,
The mention of Magic Find for the sub bosses, is to say that we have given them unique loot drops, and that Magic Find is a factor in what you get from them. That is no different in the past as it has been in the future. The more Magic Find you have, the better chances of obtaining a rarer item.

I don’t think people were majorly confused about the MF mechanic in dungeons- it’s that we have issue with MF’s core philosophy when applied to dungeon groups.

MF is a risk vs reward scenario that is perfectly acceptable for solo play. This just doesn’t extend to group play where individuals choose to decrease their group contribution (capacity for contribution) in order to gain better personal rewards. That’s a philosophy that runs against all of the other collaborative and social aspects of GW2 that make it wonderful (downed mechanic, event’s, team tagging, nodes for everyone etc)… and putting incentives (ultra rare boss loot influenced by MF) behind bosses is just going to cause discomfort in dungeons (or alternatively people will gear swap for bosses, which is something you guys didn’t want).

I think a better solution would be to give groups some way to chose a MF mode buff/debuff where their individual stats are lowered by a certain amount in order to gain a group percentage of MF. This accomplishes your intent of allowing MF to occur in dungeons, without penalizing groups that have some individual who plays like a liability, but rolls loot like a king because of his desire to wear MF. Then remove all normal MF from dungeons, and let it be the solo stat it deserves to be.

If you’re in a decent guild you can have 55% magic find without really sacrificing any of your armor stats, if going full out magic find is the only possible way that you’re looking at this to be effective, then pretend I never commented. The % bonus from armor is so negligible its hardly worth getting, running maybe 1 noble rune on your armor isn’t a huge hit to stats, considering I run orbs instead of rune sets its even less, put exotic opal pieces into your jewelry sets and you have a pretty balanced set with a decent amount of magic find. 90% with guild buffs I believe, or 100% if you use an omnomberry cream instead of bar.

To a degree, it’s also a matter of principle. MF is the only selfish statistic that brings absolutely nothing for the team, whether it’s dungeon group or random people doing an open event together, and only beefs your personal gain.
In a game where grouping and doing stuff together is essential, this is simple leeching. It’s much worse so in dungeons, where your damage output and survivability is roughly 20% of team’s total, and affects all other players present.

I really can’t believe how many people are WHINING about magic find. If you think that there should be no MF in the game, that is a perfectly valid opinion and you should discuss that elsewhere.

A content designer described in more detail, and was very up front about the mechanics used in these changes. NOTHING MAGIC FIND RELATED WAS CHANGED! MF has always affected mob drops in all forms of PVE. I do not find a designer being up front about how existing mechanics will be unchanged for new content is “encouraging people to run MF gear”, “hurting pugs”, etc.

Stop complaining about every little thing. Every stinkin’ post a developer lays out tons of GREAT improvements, and instead you look at one word (that is not a change) and harp on it like it is the end of the world.

Open information is always better than no information. This sort of reaction is only going to make devs less inclined to explain specifics of how things work. Then you can all complain about how the devs aren’t transparent or open enough. Grow up please.

fenduru – drop tables have been changed, and those are affected by MF.
It’s fine to have some RNG drops, better or worse, but not affected by a lousy, selfish, greedy statistic that no one really needs. That’s the intrinsic problem – your MF doesn’t, in any way, help your teammates or team in general. Each and every other statistic does – you kill faster (mobs have less time to kill your teammates, everything goes faster), you die less (less time wasted to revive you, less possibility of a party wipe), you heal for more, your boons are up for longer (on your teammates as well).

Literally everything you spec into SOMEHOW positively affects your party members. But magic find. It’s not even about min-maxing or finding the most useful setup, it’s about the sole fact that magic find is against the core principle of teaming up for dungeons and promotes selfish attitude.

i think it’s great you guys are doing this. better drops and more incentive to keep dungeons more alive than ever – even with the introduction of a new dungeon and area. well played, Anet. ; ))) and i am glad.

just a small tidbit – that fact and the way you mentioned MF in the original update post gives the misconception that MF is a MUST in dungeons. i know Mf has always affected dungeons as it did in open world PvE. but because such an emphasis, seemingly, has been put on MF, everyone’s going to want to stack MF. nothing has changed, but you made it sound like it’s needed. not sure what would be a way to remedy this, but fire is spreading regarding needing MF in dungeons – which is not the case…

i will stand by, for dungeons, the faster you can clear, the better. with misinformed or greedy people wanting to stack MF only, you’re only going to see more “elitism” in terms of gear and requirements of entering PUGs. not sure if this is intended or not, but i can see this as a problem, and people having toruble finding groups as in, will only find it harder.

Just saw some of those new “unique loot”. It is just accessories and back items, nothing to get excited for. Chests still gives the same useless crap they always gave. Nothing really changed aside from the nice extra 1200 karma and 9 tokens.

Well better be back to orr i guess. WAIT…they nerfed plinx too… -_-. Next victim will probably be penitent/jofast and shelter effectively killing any way of making money on this game.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I’m seeing a lot of people reacting to Magic Find being an issue here, so I felt I should clarify something.

Magic find has always effected dungeon creature drops – we haven’t changed that at all. Magic find does not effect chest drops however. This has always been the case in dungeons.
The mention of Magic Find for the sub bosses, is to say that we have given them unique loot drops, and that Magic Find is a factor in what you get from them. That is no different in the past as it has been in the future. The more Magic Find you have, the better chances of obtaining a rarer item.

Thanks for clarifying, It makes sense now. Just like any other loot bag you get I assume? I just hope people don’t switch to Magic Find gear en masse believing that there is some sort of massive change.

Just ran AC and got the bags from Spider Queen and Cave Troll but I’m especially happy you get it on Kholer. Finally people will stop skipping him! Also happy that the final reward hasn’t changed.

I think 3 tokens and a bit of karma for each is a good compromise without making it tempting for people to farm just the first couple of bosses as it would take just as long to reset a dungeon as it would completing it (Al though I’m sure some people will still try).

I have a question related to MF since I didn’t go too deep on that subject and only used it for cursed shore.
I wonder if the MF applies only IF you kill your foes with it, or just when you pick up the drops.
One more thing – Are you guys going to implement a stat rate so measure our MF/Drop rate?

I’ve gotta say, I’m really disappointed in this part of the update. Magic find is a terrible stat to bring into dungeons, it makes you more fragile, give out less dps, and overall makes the dungeon more difficult for you and your teammates. That’s all okay for when you’re running a dungeon with a bunch of friends and you can trust each other to not run a dungeon wearing MF gear, but now to make sure some kittenhole in a public group isn’t wearing MF gear we have to ask him to show us his armor, and we can’t even be sure that’s what he’s wearing. Very disappointed in the way you made this work, I was overjoyed when you said it wouldn’t effect chests, and then this? I suppose we could wear our MF gear just seconds before the death, but then we have to sacrifice our precious inventory slots.

To be honest in terms of priorities for fixing dungeons I’d say the MF change can stay until after they remove mechanics like “pull this pack, then leash all but one of the NPCs, kill it, and repeat” and “just run past this pull” from dungeons.

OK, now add a Dungeon Finder UI, so I can easily queue for whatever Dungeon I want wherever I am, like in WoW.

drkn.3429:

fenduru – drop tables have been changed, and those are affected by MF.
It’s fine to have some RNG drops, better or worse, but not affected by a lousy, selfish, greedy statistic that no one really needs. That’s the intrinsic problem – your MF doesn’t, in any way, help your teammates or team in general. Each and every other statistic does – you kill faster (mobs have less time to kill your teammates, everything goes faster), you die less (less time wasted to revive you, less possibility of a party wipe), you heal for more, your boons are up for longer (on your teammates as well).

Literally everything you spec into SOMEHOW positively affects your party members. But magic find. It’s not even about min-maxing or finding the most useful setup, it’s about the sole fact that magic find is against the core principle of teaming up for dungeons and promotes selfish attitude.

I do not necessarily disagree with that. I also have no problem with your opinion that Magic Find shouldn’t be part of the game. That is 100% valid discussion, but it does not belong in this thread. Like I said, this is not a change. They added items to the drop table… they changed nothing about MF mechanics.

Furthermore, people are reading the first post and STILL making these ridiculous claims about how its changing the game and forcing people to use magic find gear, even after Robert clarified his original post (both via a subsequent post and an edit to the OP).

People are legitimately freaking out about nothing. This just reminded some people that magic find exists and they think “oh right, that’s something I should be mad about”. There was no change regarding magic find.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I’m seeing a lot of people reacting to Magic Find being an issue here, so I felt I should clarify something.

Magic find has always effected dungeon creature drops – we haven’t changed that at all. Magic find does not effect chest drops however. This has always been the case in dungeons.
The mention of Magic Find for the sub bosses, is to say that we have given them unique loot drops, and that Magic Find is a factor in what you get from them. That is no different in the past as it has been in the future. The more Magic Find you have, the better chances of obtaining a rarer item.

Like others have said – I don’t think you are understanding why people are bringing up Magic Find in this thread (in a negative way).

Magic Find is a SELFISH stat, and dungeons are co-operative things.

Even if people are competent enough to clear these with Magic Find gear, they would always be MORE competent with other gear. Always.

So using Magic Find is always a selfish choice, and either intentionally or unintentionally screws over the other 4 people in the group.

And you are encouraging people to use Magic Find now.

Magic Find gear is fine if one is doing something solo – you’re being selfish and can only possibly harm yourself – harm in terms of something taking longer, you dying more often, etc. But in a group setting, the game’s design should NOT encourage selfish behavior in a group setting.

Magic Find affecting dungeons AT ALL is bad design, IMO.

Could someone make an external poll on whether MF is a good or bad design mechanic. Would love to see the results

As for the patch changes overall they sound excellent. Just hate hate hate MF.

Please completely remove magic find from the game. Thank you.

Seriously, I literally fell off my chair when I found out there’s a increase drop stat in the game during headstart.

This is a completely unneeded post, but I ran a dungeon in full MF gear for the first time today. I had no problems staying alive. I think I fell over once doing paths 1 & 2 of CoF. Never fully died.

MF gear isn’t a problem.

If MF worked properly then I could see a point to using it, but in my experience MF does not work as expected and you end up worse of if you use it compared to if you dont (unless you are after crafting materials). The dungeons that I have done have very few if any drops from mobs so MF is almost useless in those dungeons.

I don’t think some people are understanding why this is bad. It’s simple. MF increases your chances for the new rare loot from bosses. Want better chances at this loot? Wear MF.

The issue is, if you wear MF the side effect is kittened stats in other places. When solo this personal choice is fine. But in dungeons this choice affects the entire party, as less combat stats lessen your contribution the the group.

In essence: if you want better chances at the new rare drops, wear MF and be a less effective team member. A strictly personal gain over a negative impact on the entire team. Keep in mind that there is no way to effectively monitor this.

This is why adding loot this way promotes selfish gear choices and behavior.

You know what, I’m not against their changes on anything but reading the recent outcry’s from MF (people who hate it, people who love it) and the other huge outcry from vertical character progression with gear (people who call it gear threadmill and people who need the carrot) I think they should do this to please the most:

- remove MF from the items and replace it with another stat (make it so that people can go to some special NPC to choose what stat they want, or else they will rage again that their MF items have chainged in something with bad stats for them)
- instead of vertical progression increasing dmg & def stats of items let the vertical progression be with an added stat to the gear that’s MF, so that everyone can upgrade their gear but not the power of it only the MF they will have equiping that

That way you solve multiple issues at the same time:
- you remove the selfish aspect that MF gear holds, you don’t kitten your team with it
- you won’t create a “LFG Dungeon need full MF gear” situation that group wide MF stats would bring
- you hold true to your idea’s of a “power plateau” while still making vertical progression possible through MF so people have incentive to play and can chase the carrot on the stick

However, I gess only 5 people will read my post before it fades into the topic and not a single dev will give thougths to this.

I’m sad I’m not even sure if they can change their course to this at this point.

So I believe they don’t need to remove MF from the game. Just change the way it’s added to the gear. Don’t give people give the feeling that they need to have MF, while punishing them at the same time (or the groups they go with) for doing so because they need to give up another stat. Use MF for vertical gear progression and make it possible for the players to gradually upgrade their MF as a carrot on a stick. It could be very interesting that way.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

The mention of Magic Find for the sub bosses, is to say that we have given them unique loot drops, and that Magic Find is a factor in what you get from them. That is no different in the past as it has been in the future. The more Magic Find you have, the better chances of obtaining a rarer item.

Wow, this is a horrible, horrible change, and completely goes against what I thought that was ArenaNet’s vision of cooperating with other players and fair rewards.

By implementing this in dungeons, you are actively punishing people who are properly equipped with survivability gear (Toughness, Vitality, proper Runes) in dungeons, and promoting lesser-equipped “leechers” to stack MF and give them even better rewards then they already where given.

Changes like this certainly ruin my willingness to run Dungeons. I knew ArenaNet didn’t really like dungeons to be pugged (the ‘LFG’ tool is plain embarrassing), but as someone who mostly relies on PUG’s to do dungeons, this feels like a kick to the teeth.

I ran AC last night and we killed kholer and had a blast. The new loot system is awesome and everyone got good stuff. Nothing was skipped.
2 of the group got rare drops as well.
Also to the people qq’ing about magic find gear you can always use the magic find food.
This was probably included to help the crafters who make that gear as well as give better chances for loot drops.
If you can’t run a dungeon in rare magic find gear you are dong something wrong.

SomeoneSimple.7064:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

The mention of Magic Find for the sub bosses, is to say that we have given them unique loot drops, and that Magic Find is a factor in what you get from them. That is no different in the past as it has been in the future. The more Magic Find you have, the better chances of obtaining a rarer item.

Wow, this is a horrible, horrible change, and completely goes against what I thought that was ArenaNet’s vision of cooperating with other players and fair rewards.

By implementing this in dungeons, you are actively punishing people who are properly equipped with survivability gear (Toughness, Vitality, proper Runes) in dungeons, and promoting lesser-equipped “leechers” to stack MF and give them even better rewards then they already where given.

Changes like this certainly ruin my willingness to run Dungeons. I knew ArenaNet didn’t really like dungeons to be pugged (the ‘LFG’ tool is plain embarrassing), but as someone who mostly relies on PUG’s to do dungeons, this feels like a kick to the teeth.

If they are dying in the dungeon it probably has to do with them being a player that doesn’t know the dungeon.
They aren’t going to give players everything so I guess people who don’t like the changes can always choose not to run the dungeons.

Then again, if you already run world event with MF gear, and now you run also dungeons with MF gear…where are you using the gear you want, LA?
I never use MF gear besides farming events, and actually I don’t like it but I don’t have any other way to do it.

Drew.1865:

If they are dying in the dungeon it probably has to do with them being a player that doesn’t know the dungeon.

My problem with this change isn’t about players dying in dungeons, this is about ArenaNet introducing griefing to dungeons.

ArenaNet did a good thing; removing traditional “ninja-looting” by implementing personalized loot-rolls, however with this change they are allowing players to grief their party members yet again, by promoting them to trade-in 40% of their combat/survivability-stats for + ~150% chance for better personalized loot, while the other party members who have to deal with that loss of damage/survivability, do not gain anything from it.

Then again, once everyone in the group uses +MF gear, noone is punished for only someone else his gain in loot.

So, in the end everyone complaining about MF gear should just get an exotic MF set and do their thing. It’s your choice if you decide not to do this.

The only valid complaint in this discussion is that it narrows down build diversity because you might not like the playstyle you have to switch to when you go for MF. But then again you can’t have all… can you?

Maybe we should all just swap for an exotic MF set for PvE, and then have a second exotic set with the stats to your liking for WvW (MF doesn’t matter in WvW afaik).

That’s what I planned to do since launch. I have a full exotic set with the stats I want for my build, a rare MF set (which i will salvage soon) and almost a complete exotic MF set.

And like they already said. They didn’t change a thing about MF, it has always been the case that MF increases the chances of obtaining good loot from mobs and bosses, even in Dungeons. The general rule is: if you have to kill it, MF works for it (and it works during the kill, not during the looting)

Hey folks, it’s called “balance.” You don’t have to go all-out with MF on your gear. And if you’re such a terrible player that you can’t handle a bit of MF on your gear, that’s not ArenaNet’s fault, nor is it bad game design. Don’t forget that a decent amount of MF can come from food.

If you weren’t using MF in dungeons before, nothing has changed.

The increased rewards are great news. There is nothing to cry about here.

SomeoneSimple.7064:

Drew.1865:

If they are dying in the dungeon it probably has to do with them being a player that doesn’t know the dungeon.

My problem with this change isn’t about players dying in dungeons, this is about ArenaNet introducing griefing to dungeons.

ArenaNet did a good thing; removing traditional “ninja-looting” by implementing personalized loot-rolls, however with this change they are allowing players to grief their party members yet again, by promoting them to trade-in 40% of their combat/survivability-stats for + ~150% chance for better personalized loot, while the other party members who have to deal with that loss of damage/survivability, do not gain anything from it.

When you realize that people have and can complete dungeons in nothing but blues and greens, you realize how untrue this statement is.

Drew.1865:

SomeoneSimple.7064:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

The mention of Magic Find for the sub bosses, is to say that we have given them unique loot drops, and that Magic Find is a factor in what you get from them. That is no different in the past as it has been in the future. The more Magic Find you have, the better chances of obtaining a rarer item.

Wow, this is a horrible, horrible change, and completely goes against what I thought that was ArenaNet’s vision of cooperating with other players and fair rewards.

By implementing this in dungeons, you are actively punishing people who are properly equipped with survivability gear (Toughness, Vitality, proper Runes) in dungeons, and promoting lesser-equipped “leechers” to stack MF and give them even better rewards then they already where given.

Changes like this certainly ruin my willingness to run Dungeons. I knew ArenaNet didn’t really like dungeons to be pugged (the ‘LFG’ tool is plain embarrassing), but as someone who mostly relies on PUG’s to do dungeons, this feels like a kick to the teeth.

If they are dying in the dungeon it probably has to do with them being a player that doesn’t know the dungeon.
They aren’t going to give players everything so I guess people who don’t like the changes can always choose not to run the dungeons.

Agreed. The only people who are getting punished are bad players. I’ve run dungeons with other players loaded with MF and they were better players than me. If anyone was dragging down the group, it was me. The difference from having/not having MF is not enough to significantly affect the outcome. You could run a dozen dungeons, not knowing how much MF people had, and you wouldn’t notice a difference between one run and the next that you cold attribute to MF. Try it. I dare you. And then come back here and make the same argument with a straight face.

Magic find gear should have no effect in dungeons, it will encourage people to wear it instead of actually useful things that benefit the party. Food should work as normal.

The whine is strong in this thread.
The changes are good and the MF factoring in to better loot drops is elementary, that’s just what the stat does.

People were complaining about pugs doing dungeons with suboptimal gear/full magic find gear from long ago already, so many of you are really late on that train. And as always, this comes down to personal choice, higher risk – higher rewards. Since the very start it has always been player skill that affected the majority of your performance in the dungeon, and gear not so much. I’m running 4 pieces of Explorer’s armor with 5 noble and 1 pirate runes. Does that make my performance lower that someone wearing full berserker’s? Or full power prec touchness? Considering I’ve needed to more than once solo Lupicus while the other 4 players are graveyard rushing, I really don’t think so. Why are you also not complaining about anyone using full berserker’s gear, or even having less than 20K HP in Arah (some pug actually proclaimed that you shouldn’t be in Arah with less than 20K hp).

If RNG loot drops matter so much to you, then MF gear is the right way to go., alwyas has been. Otherwise why does it matter to you?

Thank you so much for this update ! Dungeons are defintely more worth doing now.
The idea of these bags with a little karma, some money and 3 tokens is very good. Maybe 5 tokens would have been better but anyway it’s quite good.
And, moreover, thanks for the added loots, providing ways to get exotic jewels with stats we could not craft before that. Finally ! Thanks

People ask for improvements, they are given improvements.
First page is full of people whining and complaining about how MF gear will ruin dungeons… If you can’t run a dungeon with slightly worse gear then its probably just you being bad at them.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

We also gave those three sub-bosses a guaranteed item called a “Bag of Wondrous Goods” which will give the players a consumable Karma item worth 400 karma, and a consumable monetary item worth up to 4 silver.

We just did CoE path 2, I received only one of the bags on the golem boss with the four turrets while another person in my party also got one at the end boss (So only received two) and another got 3 bags in total.

I thought it was a guaranteed thing to get on 3 bosses on each path and not a random drop? The bag that is. I believed it was random what you received in the bag, not the bag itself. It also means I only got 3 extra tokens. Bug or?

biggs.4702:

Agreed. The only people who are getting punished are bad players. I’ve run dungeons with other players loaded with MF and they were better players than me. If anyone was dragging down the group, it was me. The difference from having/not having MF is not enough to significantly affect the outcome. You could run a dozen dungeons, not knowing how much MF people had, and you wouldn’t notice a difference between one run and the next that you cold attribute to MF. Try it. I dare you. And then come back here and make the same argument with a straight face.

The common rebuttal against magic find is that, “I’m good enough to run dungeons so it’s okay for me have magic find,” “I don’t die anyways so I can run with magic find,” and some other versions of it.

What people are arguing is that magic find is a selfish stat. If you’re wearing a berserker, at least you’re dealing a bit more damage albeit being squishy. You could replace the magic find with some other offensive stat like crit dmg/chance or condition dmg/duration. That way you’re actually benefiting the group even though it’s only a little. It’s about maximizing you’re dmg – a bit more dmg is dmg nonetheless.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

ADDITION: 11/15/3:38
I’m seeing a lot of people reacting to Magic Find being an issue here, so I felt I should clarify something.

Magic find has always effected dungeon creature drops – we haven’t changed that at all. Magic find does not effect chest drops however. This has always been the case in dungeons.
The mention of Magic Find for the sub bosses, is to say that we have given them unique loot drops, and that Magic Find is a factor in what you get from them. That is no different in the past as it has been in the future. The more Magic Find you have, the better chances of obtaining a rarer item.

I genuinely don’t think you’ve understood our concern.

By giving the sub bosses unique loot drops which are affected by magic find (unlike, for example, chests) you have havily incentivised the use of magic find in dungeons.

This is a problem. It’s a problem because magic find replaces a stat which would be useful in combat. It replaces a stat which would be useful to the group.

If a player stacks magic find, then the dungeon gets harder for the entire group, but only the player stacking magic find benefits from the increased rewards.

Magic find in dungeons is an antisocial mechanic, and the current changes heavily incentivise the use of MF gear.

Personally I hate MF and wish it was just removed. But barring this, or making it null in dungeons period, a very simple fix would be to move this “special” loot from the bosses into the actual chests that spawn.

That way MF is not in play and people who are gunning for these rare drops are not tempted to wear MF at the detriment of their own survivability/DPS/group contribution.

So what he’s saying is that you can expect more of the same from pugs. Just now you will see pugs running MF gear instead of berserkers gear. They will die just as much as before. I just hope there will still be a market to sell crappy berserkers stuff to. xD

I’m not going to recite other posters about how horrible of a choice is encouraging people to use more MF gears. What i’m also concerned is that with increasingly easy to obtain karma, for I do not wish to participate in the grind to legendary, nor the grind to the Orr’s karma set, what’s the karma points to me? Why can’t we have more goods buyable using karma when you guys are making them more abundant? Or have you guys considered to give us more widely usable currency than the one that is pretty much useful only for the grinder/farmer type at end game?

Personally I hate MF and never use it, and as others have stated it’s even worse for dungeons because you’re not just hurting yourself. Hopefully people will learn quickly which bosses have the bonus loot in each dungeon and just put on their MF gear for those fights. Silly, but the best course of action.

I still think this new loot should be immune to MF though, just like the chests.

Everyone should have an equal amount of luck obtaining items, not just some noob or scrub that you’ve carried through the dungeon not even contributing one bit, whilst the team works their backs off to pull their weight. Genius Arena Net, Magic Find, not even I would’ve thought of that one.

Given that dungeon gear from tokens is not the highest level gear any more what incentive is there for people to run explorable modes any more?

morrolan.9608:

Given that dungeon gear from tokens is not the highest level gear any more what incentive is there for people to run explorable modes any more?

Cores/lodestones, chest drops, karma/money, fun…

Auesis.7301:

morrolan.9608:

Given that dungeon gear from tokens is not the highest level gear any more what incentive is there for people to run explorable modes any more?

Cores/lodestones, chest drops, karma/money, fun…

Cores/lodestones are based on the assumption that there is a point to getting them aside from to sell “if you’re not going for a legendary”

Chest drops are not highest tier or quality, they sell for nice cash easily, can be thrown into the forge “if you’re going for a legendary” or broken down for mats but are both useless unless you’re stockpiling cash or failing hardcore and dying too much, again "not going for a legendary

Karma buys you some nice skins, if you transmute them, takes a ridiculous amount of time (although karma from dungeon completions is a nice addition) and generally is underused imho, Money is a resource which is a means to an end, not an end itself. For example my reasoning here is incomplete

“I’m doing dungeons to get money.”

That’s a nice statement, but I don’t give any reason as to WHY I’m getting money, it could be that I like stockpiling immaterial virtual wealth and it’s my “thang” but if I don’t find it fun, then why am I doing it if there’s no reason for it?

I may be being critical here a lil, and there are answers to that question, it’s just that many don’t include all the reasons and seem to think farming up a ton of gold in a few weeks is going to lead to a richer game experience for them.

Here’s a suggestion, not a guaranteed fix but it might alleviate a worry.

Get rid of magic find on items and increase the amount given by foods. Create a magic find potion – people can then decide to use consumables for thier magic find.

The major issue I forsee is that people would feel obliged to use magic find foods exclusively and the poorer or more casual player would be unable to compete.

However; it would mean that if you wanted to run magic find in dungeons you could without harming your group. You would also need to gamble on the cost of crafting or purchasing boosts from gem store and TP against the returns from a dungeon.

As I said not a great solution, just me putting an idea out there.

edited: there – instead of thier – i have issues if it’s not right.