ChronoTanks and alacrity

ChronoTanks and alacrity

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Apples to Apples they both did the same thing, and if one instance is considered to be unhealthy enough for the gamestate to be changed, it’s very safe to say that the other isn’t too far behind due to it doing the exact same thing.

Anet decided to nerf Precog because it—in addition to PvE issues—single-handedly turned Chronomancer into an unkillable bunker in PvP. Because Distortion-share as we know it in PvE requires heavy trait investment, it’s never as prevalent in competitive modes because you lose other key traits to achieve it. If Distortion-share required no traits to achieve at the current frequency, I’d agree with you. That it requires so many, however, means I completely disagree with you. You give up a lot to pull it off.

Effectively, it’s something like a 12 second CD, that’s relevant. The investment for that isn’t really high.

- Domination Specialization
- Inspiration Specialization
- Illusionary Inspiration Trait
- Blurred Inscriptions Trait

You lose 15-20% personal DPS making these selections. If you miss out on any part of these requirements, the only Distortion you can share (assuming you still have Inspiration) is on a 50 second cooldown.

You miss out on personal dps but you allow your whole group to do golem dos rotation hmmm

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Every rotation on qt’s site is writen without taking distort shares into acount. 5-10% less quickness uptime is nothing compaired to your whole group being able to ignore mechanics and just dps.

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Posted by: Rain.7543

Rain.7543

Every rotation on qt’s site is writen without taking distort shares into acount. 5-10% less quickness uptime is nothing compaired to your whole group being able to ignore mechanics and just dps.

If you think 8 people losing 10% quickness is nothing… well, dont really know what to tell you. If you are okay with being into run with trash dps…. cool, I guess.

What are those so challenging mechanics that by ignoring we trivialise the runs so and makes the bosses dps golems anyway?

VG – Green circles (and blues eventually. But most of the time the timing doesnt match. Much challenge much wow, getting 4 people on big aoe circle in time /s)

Gorse – slam and goo (thats it.. what is the challenging mechanic you ignore? Dodging? Much challenge yea)
Sabetha – flamewall (running around and dps – so hard kappa, timebombs – running out with it or dodge back – VERY hard yes kek..)

Sloth (Shake) Funnily people dont complain, about distort on the mesmer himself. Could it be, because they will need to learn how to actually dodge the shake on Sloth? hmmm

Matthias – Again nothing much to ignore there, exept invulning some of his shard attacks. Perhaps we can talk about druid absorbtion here? Not too OP? Allowing you to ignore his jump attack completely… hmmm

KC – Nothing really, exept his jump on the squad near the statue. (Again nothing that can’t be dodge otherwise. Nothing challenging AT all)

Xera – At most some of the orbs during the laser attack. Nothing much really.. Here it all depends how good your tank and healers are…

Cairn – Not much exept some shard attacks (Perhaps we should remove kiters as well, since they allow you to ignore mechanics as well?)

MO – Nothing.

Samarog – His slams attack, which AGAIN can be simply dodged.

Deimos – Nothing, exept his big aoe attack. Again perhaps we need to get rid of the kiters, since they allow you to ignore blacks and hands?

In conclusion: Distort doest allow you to ignore anything THAT challenging. Its all about a simple dodge, which a monkey with half brain will manage given enough time. So your arguments so far are pretty invalid, sadly. Distort is fine, as it is and its WORKING as intended… like it or not. Good that balance changes are not yours to adjust.

(edited by Rain.7543)

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

cairn and mo are dps golems vg just becomes one with distort same with gorse deimos aoe smarog cm spears. Every thimg that would break rotation results in a dps loss. Distortimg every importand mechanic results in more dps.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

No, distort is fine, as it is, thank you. It is not game breaking skill, because while you can indeed ignore mechanics by using it.

I too enjoy statements filled with contradiction.

It’s not OP, it just allows me to completely ignore intended design!

Come on man.

Where is the contradiction? It allows you to bypass a game mechanic (not ignore it. With the pinpoint timing required, its not ignoring. You need to be very highly skilled and paying attention and reacting to the tells, which means you are bypassing not ignoring), that doesn’t make it broken.

Oh mesmers you make me chuckle. It’s somehow highly skilled to press a button on time. Something every class does on a daily basis.

Here’s how it a contradiction, the design of mechanics is for them to be executed upon, not ignored with a single button. You can say what you want but when 4 people and literally ignore mechanics that are intended to kill (or be substantially damaging) that’s when it becomes a walking contradiction.

Apparently you arent mesmer player, or never were especially in raids. Otherwise you’d know how wrong you are, mate. If it were just about pressing a button in time everyone would do it and there wouldnt be such shortage of chronotanks now would it?

But hey its all about a press of a button right? Let me guess – you play cps or cranger? At most tempest. Yea probably…..

Lol I like the attempted ad hominem, but it’s wrong.

I literally fill every role required. Mesmer is no more difficult to time or use to abuse mechanics than ele using obsidian flesh to destroy sloths projectiles.

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Posted by: Azoqu.8917

Azoqu.8917

Lol I like the attempted ad hominem, but it’s wrong.

I literally fill every role required. Mesmer is no more difficult to time or use to abuse mechanics than ele using obsidian flesh to destroy sloths projectiles.

Amen to that. Everyone in my raid group that plays Mesmer says it is super easy because you only have to concentrate for 4 seconds while you do the important part and then not care for a while. Also, everyone can’t wait for Firebrand and if the rumors are true with it being quickness/burn bot than one more person will be freed from playing Mesmer (since I Guardian main, and man do I want to be able to play support like this class should).

Concerning distort, it is completely busted since it allows you to ignore mechanics entirely. The Well is also busted since any Guardian would kill to have a 30s CD 3x Aegis application skill. Oh and it gives alacrity and stability. Well holy kitten. When you look at the well, it makes Daemos CM a lot easier than it should be. Try using a Guardian for Aegis instead of that well when the tears still stripped Aegis, Mesmers would just distort the tears while Guardians (which you wouldn’t use anyhow since the “boon” class does nothing nowadays) would just cry as a shard came in.

And to the Mesmers talking about Shield of Courage, did you forget that it is:
1. Directional based.
2. No one stands in it and the Guardian has to move in order to get people in it.
3. Is a block so it is ignored by so many mechanics.
4. Has an atrocious cool down compared to distorting.
5. Has a super tiny range.
6. On a class that doesn’t bring anything to the raid.

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

I find the arguments for and against distortion funny, especially the ones from clearly non-mesmers hearing from others how easy the class is.

Newsflash, no class in GW2 is hard to play. The only semi interesting roles that require attention are any type of special job during raid boss fights, usually done by tanks and kiters. I’m sorry but playing dps which make up about 7-8 of the raid spots is not hard.

To argue that mesmer is easy though is silly. Easy compared to what? Any of the other classes ingame? Don’t make me laugh. Most classes have such idiotically easy rotations that a blind man with 1 finger could play them. Any that require even a tad of attention (hello engis) are either shuned or not meta because they can get outperformed by braindead afk classes.

So yes, mesmers are easy to play, in a game where everything else is baby mode.

I have no problem in arenanet rebalancing distortion or even making chrono tank unviable. In that case I would like for them to address some of the other issues the mesmer class has as well. Maybe give them some dps or any other role to fill. Since I doubt that is going to happen, I’m fine with chrono tanks remaining where they are: glorified support bots that fullfill their role well.

(since I Guardian main, and man do I want to be able to play support like this class should).

Have you checked guardian dps rotation for raids? It is literally autoattack until boss is dead. Let mesmers have some of that and we can talk. Meanwhile mesmers are at the bottom of the damage chart, by a mile.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Idk calling ppls arguement silly while saying guard rotation os just aa. Meanwhile mes rotation is press all the buttoms ones aa and use blurred frenzy when nececary. Then swap back to shield proc sigil and repeat.

There are many tells to notify you when an attack happens and you can expect when to “skillfully” press signet or sword or shield phantasm. If it was purely reaction based i would give you that bit its not. Its a powerfully skill good players abuse to trivialise the content.

Nobody said make chrono unviable and chrono isnt viable for the distort share. Distort just adds 50 more miles in the 100miles diff chrono already has when every other class that could tank.

Also, stating that mesmer wont get a dps spec in the future is also clueless. Mesmer has an already good dos spec for xertain boses and its bound to get 1 more from elite spec. No i dont believe mesmer should get any buff for nerfing the distort since its just a so broken bonus added on top of a really good class to begin with.

(edited by zealex.9410)

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Posted by: ArthurDent.9538

ArthurDent.9538

I find the arguments for and against distortion funny, especially the ones from clearly non-mesmers hearing from others how easy the class is.

Newsflash, no class in GW2 is hard to play. The only semi interesting roles that require attention are any type of special job during raid boss fights, usually done by tanks and kiters. I’m sorry but playing dps which make up about 7-8 of the raid spots is not hard.

To argue that mesmer is easy though is silly. Easy compared to what? Any of the other classes ingame? Don’t make me laugh. Most classes have such idiotically easy rotations that a blind man with 1 finger could play them. Any that require even a tad of attention (hello engis) are either shuned or not meta because they can get outperformed by braindead afk classes.

So yes, mesmers are easy to play, in a game where everything else is baby mode.

I have no problem in arenanet rebalancing distortion or even making chrono tank unviable. In that case I would like for them to address some of the other issues the mesmer class has as well. Maybe give them some dps or any other role to fill. Since I doubt that is going to happen, I’m fine with chrono tanks remaining where they are: glorified support bots that fullfill their role well.

(since I Guardian main, and man do I want to be able to play support like this class should).

Have you checked guardian dps rotation for raids? It is literally autoattack until boss is dead. Let mesmers have some of that and we can talk. Meanwhile mesmers are at the bottom of the damage chart, by a mile.

Mesmer is probably my most played class in raids. I consider it much easier to play than most classes other than perhaps magi druid.

14 Dungeon paths soloed
Lupi solos on 9/9 professions
Wost Engi NA

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

Idk calling ppls arguement silly while saying guard rotation os just aa. Meanwhile mes rotation is press all the buttoms ones aa and use blurred frenzy when nececary. Then swap back to shield proc sigil and repeat.

Every single classes rotation is based on pressing all the buttons, rinse and repeat. The difficulty comes from how complex pressing these buttons is. So I’m unsure what pressing you skill has to do with difficulty.

In case of guardian (and absolutely hammer guardian) this requires the button press of aproximately 5-6 skills.

There are many tells to notify you when an attack happens and you can expect when to “skillfully” press signet or sword or shield phantasm. If it was purely reaction based i would give you that bit its not. Its a powerfully skill good players abuse to trivialise the content.

Wait so now we need good player skills to trivialise content? Wasn’t your argument just now that mesmer is super easy to play?

Also, stating that mesmer wont get a dps spec in the future is also clueless. Mesmer has an already good dos spec for xertain boses and its bound to get 1 more from elite spec. No i dont believe mesmer should get any buff for nerfing the distort since its just a so broken bonus added on top of a really good class to begin with.

I dare you, show me where I stated mesmer will never receive a dps spec? Please do so.

Ah dps spec which excells at 2 bosses and is barely on par with more popular dps builds I’d barely call a viable dps spec.

On that note, please also show me where I’ve stated that other classes will not receive unique benefits with future elite specialisations?

Mesmer is probably my most played class in raids. I consider it much easier to play than most classes other than perhaps magi druid.

The availability and bottleneck of mesmers and especially chronotanks begs to differ.

I’ve said my peace. I’m fine with people arguing balance, but draw a line when one of the only classes with a semi involved rotation gets called easy to play as long as stuff like guardian or 123456 dps builds are in game.

(edited by Cyninja.2954)

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

The availability and bottleneck of mesmers and especially chronotanks begs to differ.

Has nothing to do with the ease of play.

Tank has always been one of the least desirable playstyles.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

The availability and bottleneck of mesmers and especially chronotanks begs to differ.

Has nothing to do with the ease of play.

Tank has always been one of the least desirable playstyles.

To play devils advocate with TexZero here, the optimal build for chronotank is also extremely expensive for comparatively little payout since its not that great of a build if you are in an uncoordinated group full of average players.

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Posted by: ArthurDent.9538

ArthurDent.9538

The availability and bottleneck of mesmers and especially chronotanks begs to differ.

Has nothing to do with the ease of play.

Tank has always been one of the least desirable playstyles.

To play devils advocate with TexZero here, the optimal build for chronotank is also extremely expensive for comparatively little payout since its not that great of a build if you are in an uncoordinated group full of average players.

More significantly in my opinion is that it is a chore to play in general pve due to poor aoe DPS and losing all phantasms on changing targets

14 Dungeon paths soloed
Lupi solos on 9/9 professions
Wost Engi NA

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Posted by: CptAurellian.9537

CptAurellian.9537

The low number of chronos is probably the result of a combination of issues. I hope they use the potential of the next expansion to fix quite a bunch of problems with the class – that would benefit the entire game, since the current state of mesmers hurts far beyond that single class.

Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.

There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley

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Posted by: Azoqu.8917

Azoqu.8917

The availability and bottleneck of mesmers and especially chronotanks begs to differ.

Has nothing to do with the ease of play.

Tank has always been one of the least desirable playstyles.

I personally love playing tank, but I want to play it on my plate wearing Guardian, not a mage.

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Posted by: Rain.7543

Rain.7543

Lol I like the attempted ad hominem, but it’s wrong.

I literally fill every role required. Mesmer is no more difficult to time or use to abuse mechanics than ele using obsidian flesh to destroy sloths projectiles.

Amen to that. Everyone in my raid group that plays Mesmer says it is super easy because you only have to concentrate for 4 seconds while you do the important part and then not care for a while.

Its always funny to read such ignorant comments. People playing mesmers that say that are usually 2 types. The first is those who really have polished their gameplay and can perform everything a mesmer brings on the table flawlessly – rotations, well placement, where to use or to hold on your signet and ofc distortion share. Those are the things that make difference between really competent chronos and scrubs. The second group are the already mentioned scrubs – those that -think- its easy to play chrono, yet they cant produce a half baked rotation without running out of quickness to share, or out of alacrity because they dont keep mind of their avangers. (let alone doing some more advanced stuff, like running rotations without signet proc on phantasm spawn.)

So.. which of those are your group mesmers?
Now… realisticly, the class really becomes easy to play in time, but thats true with anything if you practiced it a lot. I really want to see you play chronotank well right of the bat. I guarentee you that you will be in for a rude awakening.

For the comment that mesmer is the most played class in raids… just lol. Are we playing in the same community? Every grp -ever- struggles with finding chronos and druids, while you get dps classes in hordes.

For me, most complex classes to play in this game are mesmer, druid, engi. First two, simply because they provide the most important buffs in the game, while always been responsible for most important jobs (mechanic wise – kitting, tanking, pulling adds, distorting share, reflecting, healing etc etc.. the list goes on….) Dps classes in this game mostly have one job – stack and do your rotations, while dodging here and there, which is also relieved from you in some instances thanks to what? You guest it.. distortion share

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

If your mesmer isn’t:

- distorting greens on VG (and slams on gorse, aoes on Deimos for greens)
- provides portals during events (thus has to constantly change skills and traits while the group runs on)
- provides 90%+ alacrity and quickness
- switches between Moa and TW as needed while cc bar breaking apropriately to allow dps to have more damage uptime
- provides pulls and reflects as needed (adds on gorse and sab, sloth, matthias, orbs on KC, human add on Sama)

all the while one of both tanks where needed. We have a very different understanding of what a mesmer should bring to the table.

Now if your mesmer:

- provides sub 90% alacrity and quickness uptime
- doesn’t distort
- doesn’t focus pull
- doesn’t provide portals and utility to speed up the run

yes then he has a way easier time.

Then again in this case you are comparing a mediocre mesmer to a mediocre dps (one that pulls around 70% of what is required).

In that case I’d still argue that a dps has a way easier time to hit 70% of top dps compared to a mediocre mesmer, but yes, then the class can be considered easy.

The problem with mesmer is, since we don’t bring damage and people rarely bother to check on boon uptime (or actually use mesmer to the full extent which it can bring to the table) the comparison can be quite off.

A dps who brings subpar damage is easily spotted, when was the last time you actually looked up your mesmers boon uptime?

(edited by Cyninja.2954)

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

The low number of chronos is probably the result of a combination of issues. I hope they use the potential of the next expansion to fix quite a bunch of problems with the class – that would benefit the entire game, since the current state of mesmers hurts far beyond that single class.

True, there is no single problem with the design of the class.

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Posted by: Rain.7543

Rain.7543

Sadly people indeed rarely look up at boon uptime, especially in pug groups… where this is the first thing people should actually note, instead of raw dps numbers, since those dps numbers comes precisely from boon uptime. But oh well… this thread derailed pretty badly.
Going back to the original OP’s point… chronos will remain main tanks for a while yet, until a new alternative comes around, like it or not. The amount of active defenses and the fact that we dont bring much in the form of dps makes us perfectly suited for it.

Its not that other classes cant tank, its just that mesmers are the most optimal class to do it, just like other games have dedicated tanks, healers etc.

CptAurellian not sure what issues you find with the class? Nor how the design hurts the game in any way? If anything a competent chrono is a huuuge boost to any squad/party both in PvE and PvP.

(edited by Rain.7543)

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

I never said that timing distort is ez and everyone can do it be i do say that its too powerfull and it just needs toning down.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

The low number of chronos is probably the result of a combination of issues. I hope they use the potential of the next expansion to fix quite a bunch of problems with the class – that would benefit the entire game, since the current state of mesmers hurts far beyond that single class.

True, there is no single problem with the design of the class.

I really dont believe that the class suffers so heavily from many issues. And i believe the biggest reason pll dont play chrono is because its playstyle is a niche and its not as exciting as playing a dps. Ppl love seing lots of numbers on their screen.

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Posted by: narcx.3570

narcx.3570

The low number of chronos is probably the result of a combination of issues. I hope they use the potential of the next expansion to fix quite a bunch of problems with the class – that would benefit the entire game, since the current state of mesmers hurts far beyond that single class.

True, there is no single problem with the design of the class.

I really dont believe that the class suffers so heavily from many issues. And i believe the biggest reason pll dont play chrono is because its playstyle is a niche and its not as exciting as playing a dps. Ppl love seing lots of numbers on their screen.

It’s true, DPS is fun. And once you gear a chrono, you’ll never get to play your dps classes again. Whenever I join a group as a dps, there’s a 99.9% chance that by the time the run starts I’ll have had to have switched to either Druid or Chrono.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

because groups are full of them

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Posted by: Azoqu.8917

Azoqu.8917

For the comment that mesmer is the most played class in raids… just lol. Are we playing in the same community? Every grp -ever- struggles with finding chronos and druids, while you get dps classes in hordes.

It is true that Mesmers and Druids (though cranger is dime a dozen) are hard to find. This has more to do with what the classes are decribed as originally and what mentality of players are gravitated to them than how hard they are to play or what role they play in a group. Way back when elite specs were first being annonced and shown to the player base, Guardians were furious that they were getting a DPS spec and not a support spec and Rangers were utterly confused why they were getting a healing one. The types of players who play those classes were getting something they didn’t sign up for that class to do.

The vast majority of people who roll a Ranger do not do so to heal people. They do it for the pet aspect and long range DPS because of the bow (they think Ranger means range while it is actually refering to a park ranger). On the flip side, people who roll Guardian did it because it was supposed to be the Monk/Healer/Tank class of the game. They are not in the game to deal damage, but to help their allies. So if you gave a viable healing spec to Guardian, healers would become super easy to find. If you gave a buff spec to Guardians, buffers would be super easy to find. Since Guardian can do neither of those roles, the people who want to play support either have to roll another class (and probably hate how that class plays mostly) or just play DPS.

How does this translate to Mesmer? Well I’m fairly certain no one rolled Mesmer pre-expansion to play support, so Mesmer mains probably don’t want to be shoved into the support role but they are forced to, so they probably swapped to a DPS class because swapping from a DPS to support mentality is way harder than swapping from support to DPS mentality.

Though if the rumors are true, all of this is moot in a few months as Mesmers will not be the only choice for insane DPS buffing and we can get rid of the pre-madonnas.

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

How does this translate to Mesmer? Well I’m fairly certain no one rolled Mesmer pre-expansion to play support, so Mesmer mains probably don’t want to be shoved into the support role but they are forced to, so they probably swapped to a DPS class because swapping from a DPS to support mentality is way harder than swapping from support to DPS mentality.

While I agree with everything else you said, I have to disagree with this. Mesmer always has been a support class even during vanilla GW2. They were portal and quickness bots for 90% of the entire time of vanille and remained so even after the big pre HoT skill/trait rework. Originally quickness was not a boon, and it was mesmer only.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Mesmer has always been the support. Its core class is build around utility and support.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Mesmer has always been the support. Its core class is build around utility and support.

Wat

Mesmer has always taken a support role in instanced content because it was garbage at doing anything other than dropping a portal, picking up an fgs, and portaling the actually useful classes to the next fight.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

i mean im not saying something diff

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

i mean im not saying something diff

Just because it can’t do anything else doesn’t mean it was designed as the support class. Phantasms at their core are not very supportive to other players, at all. Feedback can be used as an extremely powerful burst in PvE if timed well. If you look at core mesmer, its actually very selfish outside of portal, limited invisibility sharing (extremely outclassed by thief though), and time warp. Its relegated to support mainly because, as Fay said, it can’t do anything else very well outside of extremely niche scenarios.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Phantasms are not its only feature. And neither these niche sutuations present feedback as a non supportive item. Most of the utility skills are utility / support skills with like a tiny amount of exceptions. The phantasms might not be all that supporty (even tho warden is really good safe zone from projectiles) but usually the other skills on the bar provide a form of cc or buffing. To say its not a support because the phantasms are there to deal dmg (which makes sense because mesmer dps is 40/60 personal and phantams and withoutit it would be just trash) is just bad logic.

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

Phantasms are not its only feature. And neither these niche sutuations present feedback as a non supportive item. Most of the utility skills are utility / support skills with like a tiny amount of exceptions. The phantasms might not be all that supporty (even tho warden is really good safe zone from projectiles) but usually the other skills on the bar provide a form of cc or buffing. To say its not a support because the phantasms are there to deal dmg (which makes sense because mesmer dps is 40/60 personal and phantams and withoutit it would be just trash) is just bad logic.

Actually i’ts bad logic to argue from todays perspective about how mesmers supposedly were designed.

Most of those support skills you mention did not exist during vanilla and the skills were changed in such a way as to allow mesmer to perform a support role simply because making it a viable damage dealer was to much work.

Here’s a hint though since you are either a new mesmer, a no-mesmer being a smartkitten or just out to argue: there is a few mesmers who over the years have shown to be quite knowledgable about the class. One of them has a name that is 3 letters long and answered shortly in this thread. Never a good idea to pick an argument there unless you are very very well informed about the class (hint: which you are not).

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Phantasms are not its only feature. And neither these niche sutuations present feedback as a non supportive item. Most of the utility skills are utility / support skills with like a tiny amount of exceptions. The phantasms might not be all that supporty (even tho warden is really good safe zone from projectiles) but usually the other skills on the bar provide a form of cc or buffing. To say its not a support because the phantasms are there to deal dmg (which makes sense because mesmer dps is 40/60 personal and phantams and withoutit it would be just trash) is just bad logic.

Actually i’ts bad logic to argue from todays perspective about how mesmers supposedly were designed.

Most of those support skills you mention did not exist during vanilla and the skills were changed in such a way as to allow mesmer to perform a support role simply because making it a viable damage dealer was to much work.

Here’s a hint though since you are either a new mesmer, a no-mesmer being a smartkitten or just out to argue: there is a few mesmers who over the years have shown to be quite knowledgable about the class. One of them has a name that is 3 letters long and answered shortly in this thread. Never a good idea to pick an argument there unless you are very very well informed about the class (hint: which you are not).

I dont believe i argued with that person. He/she stated his/her opinion to which i agreed on a lvl.

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Posted by: Henry.5713

Henry.5713

Druids and chronomancers find themselves in a similar position. They provide powerful group buffs and other supportive features. They are basically a must-have in raids and will be present no matter what.
This means it simply the most efficient choice to change them over to be the tanks and healers respectively. The small amount of personal damage they have to sacrafice to do so, based on the builds they are already running, is rather minor compared to any DPS position.
Basically, like the debate why healing tempests aren’t being used over druids. Why would anyone pick a tempest healer over a druid healer if that means picking a sacrafice of overall 25-30k DPS instead of the 10-12k that the druid loses?

Also, can’t say I like the idea to remove most of what makes a chronomancer, well, a chronomacer. It is certainly a joy to play with a competent one. The class needs a true DPS spec more than anything else. Allowing them to make up for some of the damage others, let’s say, guardians lose if they had to tank.

I want to see an incentive to bring a different tank or healer based on the things these classes can do rather than having our current top positions be nerfed or reworked to the point where even the debatably overpowered class specific buffs are no longer enough of a reason to bring them.

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Posted by: Feersum Endjinn.4179

Feersum Endjinn.4179

I wouldn’t mind a change to chrono as long as its damage is upped to make it viable. Have 4 raid ready chars and still end up on my chrono more than not due to the needs of the group. Would love the chance to play DPS instead of support.

Oh, and to the OP, play a chrono before writing a post about them, you may learn a thing or two..

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

I want to see an incentive to bring a different tank or healer based on the things these classes can do rather than having our current top positions be nerfed or reworked to the point where even the debatably overpowered class specific buffs are no longer enough of a reason to bring them.

This.

I wish people would actually play a class before going out of their way suggesting how to best ruin it. How was that idiom?:“Walk a mile in someone’s shoes.”

Instead it’s all about:“my class can’t this, my class can’t that, etc.”

Having some more options as to raid composition would indeed be nice and more fun for everyone. Now there will always be a “perfect” meta because balance to near 100% equality is impossible. Still it should be possible to near enough a level where multiple characters can fill a role (like many dps can atm).

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

No, distort is fine, as it is, thank you. It is not game breaking skill, because while you can indeed ignore mechanics by using it.

I too enjoy statements filled with contradiction.

It’s not OP, it just allows me to completely ignore intended design!

Come on man.

There’s no contradiction by itself. Remember, that high dps can also be used to completely ignore some mechanics (by phasing bosses at the right time). Does that mean that high dps is gamebreaking and should be removed?

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

(edited by Astralporing.1957)

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

No, distort is fine, as it is, thank you. It is not game breaking skill, because while you can indeed ignore mechanics by using it.

I too enjoy statements filled with contradiction.

It’s not OP, it just allows me to completely ignore intended design!

Come on man.

There’s no contradiction by itself. Remember, that high dps can also be used to completely ignore some mechanics (by phasing bosses at the right time). Does that mean that high dps is gamebreaking and should be removed?

Hight dps is something that the entire group works to succesfully pull off. Its not something that 2 pll have to be good at to carry themselves and 8 more.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Technically the other 8 people still have to pay attention to distortion share or they will be too far away and will die, which could leap to a wipe. So its not all on the chrono, just most of it.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

If you are even 3 feet away from the group younare doing it bad. Every form of ove has been about stacking on top of eachother for buff if you are in raids and you dont know that then idk. There are things that even broken mechanics cant fix.

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Posted by: Rain.7543

Rain.7543

No, distort is fine, as it is, thank you. It is not game breaking skill, because while you can indeed ignore mechanics by using it.

I too enjoy statements filled with contradiction.

It’s not OP, it just allows me to completely ignore intended design!

Come on man.

There’s no contradiction by itself. Remember, that high dps can also be used to completely ignore some mechanics (by phasing bosses at the right time). Does that mean that high dps is gamebreaking and should be removed?

Hight dps is something that the entire group works to succesfully pull off. Its not something that 2 pll have to be good at to carry themselves and 8 more.

Doesnt really makes a difference, mate. Just like high dps isnt something everyone can pull off, same goes for proper distortion share. Not every chrono can do it without hurting their rotation and boonsharing with it, hence its not broken. Its something you learn to do through practice and it allows you to bypass certain mechanics. Same for high dps.

Also next time have an actual experience with the class, before you start shouting out loud for nerfs, because: “Its so broken, plz nerf… cause reasons. Ive never played it, but it must be super easy to do, hence its broken.”

Show me a video where you pull off perfect rotation, at least 90+ boonuptime (in the perfect rota you will need to pull 99) and alacrity, while distorting all that you should distorting, then come and complain again. At least you will have a bit more credibility afterwards, unlike now.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

The rotation in any site are not made with distort share in mind. Uninterupted rotation for everyone else in the group> a couple of % of quckness alacrity (even tho 100 alacrity isnt so strict that going for dostorts will hurt it that much.
It actually makes a diff mate. Skiping mechanics through dps is a group effort skiping mechanics through distort is a 1-2 person effort. I vastly overpowers the other. And letd be frank , raids are just as doable with 100% uptime and no distorts as theya re with 89-90% and distorting kitten.

(edited by zealex.9410)

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Posted by: Rain.7543

Rain.7543

The rotation in any site are not made with distort share in mind. Uninterupted rotation for everyone else in the group> a couple of % of quckness alacrity (even tho 100 alacrity isnt so strict that going for dostorts will hurt it that much.
It actually makes a diff mate. Skiping mechanics through dps is a group effort skiping mechanics through distort is a 1-2 person effort. I vastly overpowers the other. And letd be frank , raids are just as doable with 100% uptime and no distorts as theya re with 89-90% and distorting kitten.

I fail to see how being a group effort makes a difference, buddy. If something is broken (like you claim distortion is..), it makes no difference if done by 2 or 8 people. Quite the contrarary – in the latter case, it will just mean more people are exploiting mechanics by using broken means of ignoring them. Wouldn’t you agree? (Now i am assuming your logic here, which is completely wrong, imo, but i wanted to illustrate an example..)

Skipping (ignoring) mechanics by having high enough dps or have them being distorted by the chronos – either way you are ignoring mechanics, like you claim chronos does with their invul share, so it makes no difference how many people does it – in the end the result is the same. The point of the discussion was the result, was it not? Not how many are involved…

Back to my original point you ignored – NOT everyone can do it. It takes time and practice, just like a fluent rotation does to the dps classes. And just like not every tempest is able to pull 30+k dps, not every chrono knows and CAN properly use distort share. A broken mechanic is something everyone would have easy access to, the fact that not everyone does shows that it isnt like you paint it out to be. Its actually a skill level few mesmers reach to do it fluently, and playing in squad with such players is truly a joy.

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Posted by: CptAurellian.9537

CptAurellian.9537

A broken mechanic is something everyone would have easy access to, the fact that not everyone does shows that it isnt like you paint it out to be.

Here’s the problem. I don’t think that definition of “broken mechanic” is anywhere close to universally acceptable. Just requiring a modicum of skill doesn’t make something balanced.

Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Never said someone could jump in and do it (even tho the attack teels are pretty obvious and if someone explains it yiu can pretty much do it most of the time).

I said that fractals/raids are challenging group content if distort required all 10/5 ppl to cordinate to pull of then sure keep it but your teamates can litterally be mokeys and you still carry them because thats a solo mechanic that ignores mechanics aimed at a group.

Pull your head out of your big idea of what playing chrono is and see how things are.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

No, you know what makes distortion broken….

0 counters. That’s all you need to know as to why its broken. Plenty of things ignore block, strip boons. Nothing in this game removes a status, let alone one that gives you complete immunity. That’s the problem and if you fail to see it, i don’t think anyone can help you.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

I said that fractals/raids are challenging group content if distort required all 10/5 ppl to cordinate to pull of then sure keep it but your teamates can litterally be mokeys and you still carry them because thats a solo mechanic that ignores mechanics aimed at a group.

Well, they’d at least need to be stacked close to each other in the right moment. And not getting, for example, teleported around by blues on VG. I’ve seen a lot of groups where that was a problem.

Comparing to that, in general, getting enough dps for mechanic skipping is way easier.

No, you know what makes distortion broken….

0 counters. That’s all you need to know as to why its broken. Plenty of things ignore block, strip boons. Nothing in this game removes a status, let alone one that gives you complete immunity. That’s the problem and if you fail to see it, i don’t think anyone can help you.

That might be a concern in sPvP. You know, the content where, at the moment, distortion is not considered to be OP. In Raids however (the content this discussion is about) there are mechanics that completely bypass distortion. The very fact that such a distinction in mechanics exist shows that you may not be entirely correct in what you’re saying.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

(edited by Astralporing.1957)

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

I said that fractals/raids are challenging group content if distort required all 10/5 ppl to cordinate to pull of then sure keep it but your teamates can litterally be mokeys and you still carry them because thats a solo mechanic that ignores mechanics aimed at a group.

Well, they’d at least need to be stacked close to each other in the right moment. And not getting, for example, teleported around by blues on VG. I’ve seen a lot of groups where that was a problem.

Comparing to that, in general, getting enough dps for mechanic skipping is way easier.

No, you know what makes distortion broken….

0 counters. That’s all you need to know as to why its broken. Plenty of things ignore block, strip boons. Nothing in this game removes a status, let alone one that gives you complete immunity. That’s the problem and if you fail to see it, i don’t think anyone can help you.

That might be a concern in sPvP. You know, the content where, at the moment, distortion is not considered to be OP. In Raids however (the content this discussion is about) there are mechanics that completely bypass distortion. The very fact that such a distinction in mechanics exist shows that you may not be entirely correct in what you’re saying.

Its way easier to perform rotations under the stress of unavoidable mechanics meaniwhile you avoid aoes easier than just standing close to the tank when he says ill distort? And the range, the range isnt as short as your present it to be.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

No, you know what makes distortion broken….

0 counters. That’s all you need to know as to why its broken. Plenty of things ignore block, strip boons. Nothing in this game removes a status, let alone one that gives you complete immunity. That’s the problem and if you fail to see it, i don’t think anyone can help you.

That might be a concern in sPvP. You know, the content where, at the moment, distortion is not considered to be OP. In Raids however (the content this discussion is about) there are mechanics that completely bypass distortion. The very fact that such a distinction in mechanics exist shows that you may not be entirely correct in what you’re saying.

Show me a mechanic in raids currently that ignores distortion, please.

I’ll wait.

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Posted by: skarpak.8594

skarpak.8594

Show me a mechanic in raids currently that ignores distortion, please.

I’ll wait.

Already applied conditions.
Gors World Eater.
Escord mines.
Xera Magic Dome.
Deimos Ward Attack.
KC bombs.
Cairn sweep (reddit, can’t confirm right now).

…not sure about MO spears / cm blue fields, but yeah.

do you even raid mate, let alone do you play mesmer?

(edited by skarpak.8594)

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

Show me a mechanic in raids currently that ignores distortion, please.

I’ll wait.

Already applied conditions.
Gors World Eater.
Escord mines.
Xera Magic Dome.
Deimos Ward Attack.
KC bombs.
Cairn sweep (reddit, can’t confirm right now).

…not sure about MO spears / cm blue fields, but yeah.

do you even raid mate, let alone do you play mesmer?

What even is your list….of them 4 are Raid wipes and 1 of them is wrong, you can distort Deimos Ward, you can also just use a block.

Gors World Eater
KC bombs
Xera Magic Dome
Deimos Ward Attack

Carin Sweep can be distorted….Do you even mesmer ?

That leaves Escort mines…okay so 1 thing which you’ll never run into as a raid mechanic.

Congrats you have 1 thing that ignores it that isn’t a guarenteed Raid Wipe specific mechanic ?