Guild Wars 2

TexZero.7910:

skarpak.8594:

TexZero.7910:

Show me a mechanic in raids currently that ignores distortion, please.

I’ll wait.

Already applied conditions.
Gors World Eater.
Escord mines.
Xera Magic Dome.
Deimos Ward Attack.
KC bombs.
Cairn sweep (reddit, can’t confirm right now).

…not sure about MO spears / cm blue fields, but yeah.

do you even raid mate, let alone do you play mesmer?

What even is your list….of them 4 are Raid wipes and 1 of them is wrong, you can distort Deimos Ward, you can also just use a block.

Gors World Eater
KC bombs
Xera Magic Dome
Deimos Ward Attack

Carin Sweep can be distorted….Do you even mesmer ?

That leaves Escort mines…okay so 1 thing which you’ll never run into as a raid mechanic.

Congrats you have 1 thing that ignores it that isn’t a guarenteed Raid Wipe specific mechanic ?

Just so you know, Deimos ward is only blockable and can’t be invulned. The reason people still distort it is because Saul will melee you out of your aegis just as it goes off at times (also the fact that tears used to remove aegis on CM but no longer do).

Besides that everything else is a pure wipe mechanic and makes sense to ignore distort. In fact the only one that Mesmers can complain about ignoring distort is Deimos (though they still have aegis to give out so…) because everything else that ignores it also ignores aegis and dodges. There is also the fact that distort ignores Sabatha’s Flame Wall which is also supposed to be a wipe mechanic.

speaking about tears nice one anet taking every sense of chalkenge and paying attention to mechsnics and throwing it out the window.

Also you can portal ignore world eater so theres that

TexZero.7910:

skarpak.8594:

TexZero.7910:

Show me a mechanic in raids currently that ignores distortion, please.

I’ll wait.

Already applied conditions.
Gors World Eater.
Escord mines.
Xera Magic Dome.
Deimos Ward Attack.
KC bombs.
Cairn sweep (reddit, can’t confirm right now).

…not sure about MO spears / cm blue fields, but yeah.

do you even raid mate, let alone do you play mesmer?

What even is your list….of them 4 are Raid wipes and 1 of them is wrong, you can distort Deimos Ward, you can also just use a block.

Gors World Eater
KC bombs
Xera Magic Dome
Deimos Ward Attack

Carin Sweep can be distorted….Do you even mesmer ?

That leaves Escort mines…okay so 1 thing which you’ll never run into as a raid mechanic.

Congrats you have 1 thing that ignores it that isn’t a guarenteed Raid Wipe specific mechanic ?

You asked for raid mechanics that ignore distortion. You were provided with raid mechanics that ignore distrotion.

The thing about dealing in absolutes like you did, the moment when someone provides you with even 1 example of you being incorrect, your entire argument devolves.

Congratulations, obviously arenanet has the ability to circumvent distortion if they so please. Kind of makes this:

TexZero.7910:

No, you know what makes distortion broken….

0 counters. That’s all you need to know as to why its broken. Plenty of things ignore block, strip boons. Nothing in this game removes a status, let alone one that gives you complete immunity. That’s the problem and if you fail to see it, i don’t think anyone can help you.

untrue. You make it sound as though arenanet does not have the ability to bypass distortion (which would be a huge design problem) when obviously they can and have not opted into doing so for certain attacks. Big difference in validity of the argument there.

The issue is not that abilities can bypass distort the is that distort bypasses mechanics. And yes anet has a way to bypass the efect is called making it useless on encounters. Bad design right there.

TexZero.7910:

What even is your list….of them 4 are Raid wipes and 1 of them is wrong, you can distort Deimos Ward, you can also just use a block.

That’s not true… You can block it, but you can’t evade or distort it. That’s why Chrono’s bring Well of Precog for challenge mote. (Or some groups rely on DH’s for Aegis, I guess.)

narcx.3570:

TexZero.7910:

What even is your list….of them 4 are Raid wipes and 1 of them is wrong, you can distort Deimos Ward, you can also just use a block.

That’s not true… You can block it, but you can’t evade or distort it. That’s why Chrono’s bring Well of Precog for challenge mote. (Or some groups rely on DH’s for Aegis, I guess.)

Exactly, obviously arenanet is okay with distorting certain attacks (which again is not that easy to do) otherwise they would make more attacks undistortable (since they have that ability). It’s the same as skipping stuff with to much dps or making fights easier since the fights duration gets cut short by dps classes rushing down the bosses lifebar.

Thats skillful play by everyone one the group dos rushing that is. Distorting isnt.

zealex.9410:

Thats skillful play by everyone one the group dos rushing that is. Distorting isnt.

Actually that’s exploiting the overpowered nature of some classes to overcome game mechanics. There is enough dps classes who can’t field enough dps so easily to achieve this or it’s a lot easier on some. Let’s call all top dps classes overpowered now.

Still the argument stands, if arenanet were unhappy with distortion of certain attacks, they can flip a switch and make the attack undistrotable.

By arguing distortion is overpowered you are asking for a skill to get changed which affects all 3 game modes when the solution to this (by you perceived problem) is simply some extra coding from arenanet when designing bosses.

That line of thought and approach makes this entire argument clearly biased not for balance, but simply against mesmers out of simple spite and envy.

TexZero.7910:

Congrats you have 1 thing that ignores it that isn’t a guarenteed Raid Wipe specific mechanic ?

raid wipe attacks are also just mechanics.
you can go arround them if you play them right…like rupting the attack through phasing, flying or portaling out in terms of gorse, or spreading / killing ghosts at kc, and everthing else what is there like the domes at xera / deimos.

it still stands…there are certain mechanics, which can’t be distortet but avoided otherwise. thats what you wanted to know.

if you say: uuuh they don’t, they are intented to wipe your raid, sure distort doesn’t work…ORLY? other attacks aren’t intended to wipe raids? LUL.

learn 2 argument and also read what cyninja writes. its not a problem that distort is too op and that the skill needs fixing. if something should be done, then on the raidmechanics and not 1 single skill.

makes no sense anyway, mesmer is there as a strong support class with kitten low damage, why take stuff away from it.
quickness op, alacrity op, distort op, portals op, cc op…lets nerf everything and make mesmer the new necro, so we can fill the last two spots of the raid with another condi teef for more dmg. we need only this kind of skillful play.

while we are at it, also nerf entangle and ca 5, can’t be that these skills trivialize whole raid mechanics.
also don’t forget PS, 1 single class for might stacking, we need blasting back!

/s

The list of things in raids that can be distorted but not blocked is extremely small. It’s like… green circles at VG, Cairn’s sweep, evolved slubling projectiles, spirits at Matth… and that’s all that I can think of. If that short list is seriously all that some people think it takes to make Distortion any more OP than Shield of Courage, then all I can say is that thankfully ANet are the ones balancing things and not anyone in this thread.

Rising Dusk.2408:

If that short list is seriously all that some people think it takes to make Distortion any more OP than Shield of Courage

5 second cool down, 60 second cool down.
Aoe, directional.

Though I guess 1 second and 3 seconds is something!

Azoqu.8917:

5 second cool down, 60 second cool down.
Aoe, directional.

Though I guess 1 second and 3 seconds is something!

An internal ICD of 5s doesn’t mean it procs every 5s. At best in the current meta you get one on phantasm every 30s (24s traited), one on SoI every 30 seconds (24s traited), and the 50s cooldown F4. DH also achieves more than double the DPS of a Mesmer who traits everything into getting every possible Distortion share, so you know, there’s that.

Rising Dusk.2408:

DH also achieves more than double the DPS of a Mesmer who traits everything into getting every possible Distortion share, so you know, there’s that.

Double the DPS but 2nd lowest DPS in the game so pretty useless especially since it brings nothing to the table.

Azoqu.8917:

Double the DPS but 2nd lowest DPS in the game so pretty useless especially since it brings nothing to the table.

Thank you. You’re absolutely right, which helps make my point that the defensive utility of Distortion on the Mesmer isn’t even remotely the driving factor in why you bring them to raids when something very comparable but slightly different on a DH doesn’t even remotely justify their presence in a group. Alone without any of the other shiny things a Mesmer brings it just wouldn’t be enough to justify their usage, and that clearly indicates how it is not even close to OP in its current form.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Azoqu.8917:

Double the DPS but 2nd lowest DPS in the game so pretty useless especially since it brings nothing to the table.

Thank you. You’re absolutely right, which helps make my point that the defensive utility of Distortion on the Mesmer isn’t even remotely the driving factor in why you bring them to raids when something very comparable but slightly different on a DH doesn’t even remotely justify their presence in a group. Alone without any of the other shiny things a Mesmer brings it just wouldn’t be enough to justify their usage, and that clearly indicates how it is not even close to OP in its current form.

If anything it shows that it is OP because the Mesmer is not brought for distortion but has it anyhow in addition to what it actually brings. And why would you bring a Guardian for Shield of Courage/distortion type effect when a Mesmer, who is brought anyhow, does the same better?

Azoqu.8917:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Azoqu.8917:

Double the DPS but 2nd lowest DPS in the game so pretty useless especially since it brings nothing to the table.

Thank you. You’re absolutely right, which helps make my point that the defensive utility of Distortion on the Mesmer isn’t even remotely the driving factor in why you bring them to raids when something very comparable but slightly different on a DH doesn’t even remotely justify their presence in a group. Alone without any of the other shiny things a Mesmer brings it just wouldn’t be enough to justify their usage, and that clearly indicates how it is not even close to OP in its current form.

If anything it shows that it is OP because the Mesmer is not brought for distortion but has it anyhow in addition to what it actually brings. And why would you bring a Guardian for Shield of Courage/distortion type effect when a Mesmer, who is brought anyhow, does the same better?

All this shows is that guardian currently does not provide anything unique enough to get brought along for raids. That’s no proof that distortion on mesmer is overpowered.

Simple question: if guardian had the exact distortion possibilities as mesmer, would he have a raid spot? No.

Followup question: If mesmers had no boon share or superb support skills and only distortion, would they have raid spots? Absolutely not.

Does the extra distortion make for a strong argument to bring mesmers and is it a boon to have on top of what mesmer provide? Absolutely, no one is disputing that.

It is far reaching though to deduct that this ability is overpowered based on the fact that mesmer gets taken along for their boon share and support abilities. By the way, the only thing mesmer is good at compared to other classes.

You want to talk overpowered? Focus on ranger/druid who provide multiple essential roles in raids and are top tier in all of those:

- top dps build
- top healing support build
- superb kiting
- unique group damage buff
- aoe root (entangle) to bypass or nearly make useless certain boss mechanics

Even if one of those roles were toned down in favor of say healing tempest (oh wait, not needed since tempest have the 3 highest dps specs in the game) ranger/druid would be in a very good spot. That’s overpowered, not some situational skill which if arenanet wanted would play 0 role in the raid meta.

They dont have all that together tho hence its balanced. And human characters canuse the avatar of melandru to root for an eternity adds or w/e

zealex.9410:

They dont have all that together tho hence its balanced. And human characters canuse the avatar of melandru to root for an eternity adds or w/e

We were talking raid viability as argument that distortion was unbalanced. At least Azoqu was thus I was responding to his argument.

I was answering on that basis.

Are you seriously comparing a 180 second cooldown shapeshift racial (not avaialable to everyone, massive time loss from shapeshifting, activating skill and shfting out) to a 60 second cooldown class elite to make a point? Wow.

Are people even realising how biased they are arguing? It’s selective pick and chose in a valiant effort to somehow make something stick.

It root for half a century. Also no disrot isnt the reason you brink a chrono thats mostly because the boon system is badly made to begin with. But that doesnt andervalue how strong distortion and aoe at that is. If you werr to choose from 2 dps’ that deal the same dmg but one has the ability to completelly negate mechanics which would you pick? :thinking:

Oh and dont bring me the arguement of racials even alot of mesmers humans will use balthazar’s dogs or w/e that a dps increase because tw or gw or moa arent needed all the time.

zealex.9410:

It root for half a century. Also no disrot isnt the reason you brink a chrono thats mostly because the boon system is badly made to begin with. But that doesnt andervalue how strong distortion and aoe at that is. If you werr to choose from 2 dps’ that deal the same dmg but one has the ability to completelly negate mechanics which would you pick? :thinking:

Which does you a lot of good in the current raid meta because we have to root stuff only 1 time. Or wait, no every single encounter where roots are useful you have to reaply them.

Good point about the 2 dps you would bring. 1 of them would definately not be a mesmer. The other? Probably a druid.

zealex.9410:

Oh and dont bring me the arguement of racials even alot of mesmers humans will use balthazar’s dogs or w/e that a dps increase because tw or gw or moa arent needed all the time.

Definately not in raids.

Wait, are you now arguing for mesmers? How is mesmers taking racial skills to increase their damage show the class being overpowered? You have a very selsctive and confusing way of arguing and trAin of thought to say the least.

Cyninja.2954:

zealex.9410:

It root for half a century. Also no disrot isnt the reason you brink a chrono thats mostly because the boon system is badly made to begin with. But that doesnt andervalue how strong distortion and aoe at that is. If you werr to choose from 2 dps’ that deal the same dmg but one has the ability to completelly negate mechanics which would you pick? :thinking:

Which does you a lot of good in the current raid meta because we have to root stuff only 1 time. Or wait, no every single encounter where roots are useful you have to reaply them.

Good point about the 2 dps you would bring. 1 of them would definately not be a mesmer. The other? Probably a druid.

zealex.9410:

Oh and dont bring me the arguement of racials even alot of mesmers humans will use balthazar’s dogs or w/e that a dps increase because tw or gw or moa arent needed all the time.

Definately not in raids.

Wait, are you now arguing for mesmers? How is mesmers taking racial skills to increase their damage show the class being overpowered? You have a very selsctive and confusing way of arguing and trAin of thought to say the least.

Overpowered doesnt mean everything it does is the best at that would be just broken. And i was talking more long term when mesmer gets a dps spec because they wont keep making suport specs. Then mesmer will have the ability to just go in have on par dps with other top dps classes and have distort to ignore mechanics.

zealex.9410:

Cyninja.2954:

zealex.9410:

It root for half a century. Also no disrot isnt the reason you brink a chrono thats mostly because the boon system is badly made to begin with. But that doesnt andervalue how strong distortion and aoe at that is. If you werr to choose from 2 dps’ that deal the same dmg but one has the ability to completelly negate mechanics which would you pick? :thinking:

Which does you a lot of good in the current raid meta because we have to root stuff only 1 time. Or wait, no every single encounter where roots are useful you have to reaply them.

Good point about the 2 dps you would bring. 1 of them would definately not be a mesmer. The other? Probably a druid.

zealex.9410:

Oh and dont bring me the arguement of racials even alot of mesmers humans will use balthazar’s dogs or w/e that a dps increase because tw or gw or moa arent needed all the time.

Definately not in raids.

Wait, are you now arguing for mesmers? How is mesmers taking racial skills to increase their damage show the class being overpowered? You have a very selsctive and confusing way of arguing and trAin of thought to say the least.

Overpowered doesnt mean everything it does is the best at that would be just broken. And i was talking more long term when mesmer gets a dps spec because they wont keep making suport specs. Then mesmer will have the ability to just go in have on par dps with other top dps classes and have distort to ignore mechanics.

Sure, once that actually happens we can discuss balance.

How about we wait for that to actually happen before we start asking for nerfs and balance changes based on pure rumor and speculation.

Here’s a train of thought for you:
“If the new mesmer specialisation does not make mesmer a viable dps class, and other classes receive viable support specs, how exactly will you balance the game then?”

Never balance around future maybe scenarios. You balance based on actual fact and current models. Everything else is unjust, unfair and pure stupidity (or as I pointed out earlier spite and envy).

other specs can get support capabilities as long as they dont get iframes which further trivialise content.

zealex.9410:

other specs can get support capabilities as long as they dont get iframes which further trivialise content.

and what if they do? Pure hypothetical question.

Fact is, you have 0 idea of what elite specs get. Thus you have 0 ability to ask for balance changes to classes now or in the future until those specs are released.

zealex.9410:

other specs can get support capabilities as long as they dont get iframes which further trivialise content.

I think the thing nobody’s really said here is that the type of people who are good enough to “trivialize content” with distort, are also good enough to easily clear it without.

I’ve never even seen a bad or mid range group attempt VG No Greens, but I’m sure if I did, they would screw up the phantasm/signet cast-time timing at some point.

For pushing Gorse tantrum, from a pug druid standpoint, I can tell you that if I don’t save all my burst heals for the third pulse, somebody’s going to go down… And that shouldn’t be the case if mesmers were there easily bypassing content with distorts.

For sloth shakes, same thing, people consistently go down or require a clutch power cleanse.

And let’s be honest, those are pretty much the only 3 fights where mesmer’s are sort of required/well known for there distorts. Anything else is just a niche save (like a ghost running over a downed person on matt.)

If mesmer’s distort was really so face roll OP, there would never be wipes or failed mechanics, which in the pug scene—no matter how many LI’s they’re asking for in LFG—just isn’t true.

Can a GOOD mesmer help carry bad players through mechanics, sure. But on the same page, so can bringing good dps that are actually hitting their benchmarks, instead of hovering around 17-20k. Or a good druid that uses spirit rez wisely.