Guild Wars 2

I’m looking to start doing CoE at some point for the armor set, I’ve read in numerous posts that it’s insanely hard on account of being one-shotted and other issues involving lasers and frozen in blocks requiring teleport skills.

However some posts say that they can’t understand why people are complaining, it’s simple and straightforward etc, so before I start running it on my guardian, from a survivability standpoint, what armor stats and rune set is recommended for CoE to stop myself dropping as soon as the mobs sneeze on me?

I’m currently using the melandru temple set (mainly vit/tough/power) and the superior rune of melandru set on it.

PVT should be OK, I run Knights which is slightly more toughness.

It really depends on the path for a guardian.

Path1, is stack on top of him and melee, this is going to be the easiest path for you.
Path2/3 requires constant dodging, and AOE will 1 hit any class. Guardian, War, Bunker Ele, doesnt matter. You get hit AoE Circle, your a goner.

Once in a while even in Knights, Alpha will hit me in melee for more damage than I can outheal but mostly you will be perfectly fine. Its kinda like one of those things, even if you had a full 0 dps, full heal/tank build, hes gonna melee hurt you once in a rare bit for too much. Start on Path 1 and you be good.

I dont particulary love the armor/runes you have, but having done CoE, those are definatly good enough to survive. You dont need to tweak it specifically for here

Toughness and vitality wont help you last longer in CoE, may as well just run straight damage and play smart.

Learn the bosses and encounters, know when to dodge, know what spells are most useful (ie. reflect, stability, boon removal all have their place).

He has no melee attacks. He only has Aoe Fire Blast (adds burning), Rock spike (linear), Rock spike (aoe), Dragon Tooth, Shatterstone (ice skill), and the ever annoying purple crystal. He’ll also summon tendrils but none o those are “melee” attacks.

Learn 2 dodge. That’s pretty much it.

Besides an easy to dodge move from Alpha there’s really nothing too damaging in CoE.

The AoE earth rings will not one shot, nor will single Dragon Teeth or the earth line attack. At least they don’t on a glass ranger.

Subject Alpha is all about knowing what to dodge and what to walk out of. Many of the moves can simply be strafed out of. And when they are stacked heavily enough (my guild calls it the venn diagrams of death), you need to dodge at the right time to dodge through the damage.

I honestly don’t think you need to run any specific gear for the fight. You just need to learn the mechanics and dodge.

Tbh, a lot of the times there simply isn’t a need to dodge. Path 1 is stack, Path 2 you can walk out of everything assuming everyone spaces out well and Path 3…well this path you kind of have to do dodge if you’re not stacking…due to that linear frontal aoe earth attack.

You only need tanky gear if you plan to take everyone of his attacks in close range. For me as a gc thief, stacking can hurt sometimes due to his aoe flame blast, but that’s not a problem if the group you’re running with can provide regen or condi removal or if I take condi removal.

But basically, you can walk out of every aoe circle w/o having to dodge. If you must though, count 1 and 2 then dodge.

The game has been out for about six months now and people still don’t fully understand Subject Alpha. It’s a sweet creation borne from the brilliance of the Inquest Mind, fused with Dragon energy drinks, likes taking long walks through the Crucible…

He also has a few moves and is really one of the more involved dungeon boss fights in GW2.

Path 1: Submarine
He uses two attacks.

The first is a point-blank AOE flame burst that does 10-20% HP of damage and puts a Burn on victims. If there are enemies at range, this same attack will also spawn Dragon Teeth. Being silly and getting hit by the Dragon Teeth will usually instantly Down the fool.

The second attack is an Earth Spike attack hits in a cone. It’s very hard to dodge this in melee range, but the damage is quite manageable.

On the second and third encounters with Alpha, it will randomly encase a character in crystal. The crystal can be broken with direct damage and blinked out of with the appropriate skills. The crystal, if unbroken, will disable the victim for 30s. If the victim was caught out in range, this will mean likely death from a Dragon Tooth.

In order to avoid the headache of needing to dodge the Dragon Teeth, especially in the second and third fights when the party has to break the crystals, the strategy is to simply stack in melee range, then heal and cleanse through his attacks.

Throughout each encounter with Alpha, there will be Risen Thralls and Risen Tentacles that you can kill to Rally.

Path 2 & Path 3
Subject Alpha’s abilities in Paths 2 and 3 are somewhat different from 1 and a tad bit more complex.

While it retains its fire-based attack, it loses its Earth Spike attack. Instead of a cone, it will mark each enemy in the encounter with two concentric circles. At the centre you will notice one of two distinct visual effects: frost on the ground and mist in the air.

Frost on the ground telegraphs an earth-based attack (I strongly suggest the ANet dungeon team reconsider this vague visual effect). Anything outside of the inner circle will get hit with a fair amount of damage plus 6 stacks of Bleed. Simply standing still (assuming no other circles overlap your inner circle) will keep your character safe.

Mist in the air (again, I suggest a more prominent visual effect) telegraphs an ice-based attack. Anything standing inside the inner circle will be instantly Downed from massive damage. Simply walking out of inner circle will save your behind. Only one enemy will be targeted with the ice attack each cycle.

Most people only know to stack in melee range and “count to 2 and dodge”. It works, but some people just can’t count or take into consideration for latency/reaction time/hand-eye coordination.

Alternatively, if spaced apart in such a way that nobody’s outer circle overlaps somebody else’s inner circle, the party can stand still and pelt Alpha with ranged attacks, only needing to avoid the occasional Dragon Tooth and Ice attack.

Besides the ambiguous visual tells for its one-shot attacks, my only other pet peeve with the Subject Alpha fight is how unfriendly it is to Condition Damage builds. Breaking party members out of Crystal Prisons are top priority, but utterly impossible to do in a timely manner when you’re geared in Rabid or similar gear with very low Power.

Path 1
Dragon tooth and earth spikes. The teeth drop on ranged people, and one can walk out of this. The earth spikes are aimed at the person Alpha has aggro on, and he uses it after the tooth drops. It can help to range him if you have aggro so you can dodge the spikes, and have everyone else stand behind him.

Path 2
Glacial shard, earth rings, and dragon tooth.

Path 3
Glacial shard, earth rings, earth spikes. Spikes hit after ice which appears on one person. Can also help for the person who has aggro to be ranged for the spikes to aim elsewhere, and easier maneuvering in circles to save your endurance.

Path 3 Alpha’s moves are pretty hazy to me, in terms of the exact things he does. Most of the time you wind up dodging out of any ice/earth attack anyway.

Dodging his main holycraproomfullofAoE is pretty much count 3 fast seconds and then dodge. You fight Alpha 3 times per path. Stage 1 Alpha does his main moves. Stage 2 Alpha adds crystallization. Stage 3 Alpha fight adds healing.

CoE is THE dungeon where you can go full damage without asking questions.
The only defense you need is your dodge key, some way to cleanse conditions can also help in paths 1 and 2.

Don’t read the forums too much, try the dungeon yourself before that.

The other bosses are purely mechanics based and defensive stats merely provide you a buffer for mistakes, somewhat. However I’ll give some tips specific to Guardians, since you mentioned.

Champion Icebrood Wolf
The fight is all about avoiding its pounce attack. Aegis is perfect for the situation, and so is the Focus’ Shield of Wrath.

Subject Alpha
It’s all about the safety nets you can give your party mates. You achieve this through Aegis (Virtue of Courage) and Protection (Hold the Line, Shield of Judgement). Otherwise, you can also help cleanse the Burn condition with anything from Purging Flames to Absolute Resolution.

Mark T-B34RC3
The key to this fight is to remove its boons. You do this by preventing the bolts from each turret from reach the golem. The most brainless tactic to achieve this is to destroy the turrets, which works, but inefficient as they respawn rather quickly.

The smart way is to block and reflect the turret bolts. The Guardian has three ways to achieve this: Wall of Reflection, Shield of Absorption and Shield of the Avenger. By placing these in between the golem and the turrets, you stop it from receiving the boons granted by the associated turret. If you can otherwise rip its boons, all the better.

I have to agree with krag.

For path 1 just don’t stand in front of him when he does the spikes. The burning does damage but if the party has condition removal it is not an issue. Simply stack and keep moving to the side or behind him.

Path 2 he does less burning damage. If you have a skill to port out of the crystals that helps. Again you stack so that if stuck in crystal then your team and easily break you out. Just count to 2 and dodge when he does his large AOE attack. Having a food that gives life on crit really helps too as you can heal through the condition damage.

I will run a full berserker war mes or guardian and have no problems.

Tulinor.6745:

I will run a full berserker war mes or guardian and have no problems.

Sorry for offtopic, but I’m curious about that guardian of yours? Care to explain how full zerker guardian works?

haviz.1340:

Tulinor.6745:

I will run a full berserker war mes or guardian and have no problems.

Sorry for offtopic, but I’m curious about that guardian of yours? Care to explain how full zerker guardian works?

Full zerker best dps guardian build ever.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79899-the-ultimate-guardian-build/

Ioflux.4369:

Full zerker best dps guardian build ever.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79899-the-ultimate-guardian-build/

In one thread you said he’s the biggest joker on gw2guru so troll unsuccessful ;p

Anyway, I actually share some of his views, I’m not running cookie cutter 30 in valor and 20 in honor (or something similiar).

haviz.1340:

Ioflux.4369:

Full zerker best dps guardian build ever.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79899-the-ultimate-guardian-build/

In one thread you said he’s the biggest joker on gw2guru so troll unsuccessful ;p

Anyway, I actually share some of his views, I’m not running cookie cutter 30 in valor and 20 in honor (or something similiar).

Sarcasm is hard to convey in text. I linked it as a joke lol

I run a full berserker Thief in CoE. There are attacks that can one-shot me. I have more than enough ways to ensure I do not get hit thanks to dodging and built-in dodges in my weaponry.

Once you learn his attack pattern, it’s a piece of cake. The problem comes from when more than one person gets downed by alpha at the same time. That’s hard to recover from.

PS: Rally off tendrils if you’re downed near them.

Ioflux.4369:

Sarcasm is hard to convey in text. I linked it as a joke lol

This might be a joke for you but I consider this build as a decent, better than standard cookie cutter 0/15/30/20/5 or any of its variation.

haviz.1340:

Ioflux.4369:

Sarcasm is hard to convey in text. I linked it as a joke lol

This might be a joke for you but I consider this build as a decent, better than standard cookie cutter 0/15/30/20/5 or any of its variation.

The joke isnt so much the build (some parts are definitely viable), but the attitude and tone of the guy making the post and previous guides he’s posted. I’ve played around with DPS guardian builds and theres certainly some fun / viable / optimal builds, but to go as far as say that guardian’s can outdps a warrior in a group buffing environment is just silly.

VIGOR

This buff is king against Subject Alpha due to the constant dodging required. When I play my Warrior I use Signet of Stamina+Warhorn (which do stack!).

Oglaf.1074:

VIGOR

This buff is king against Subject Alpha due to the constant dodging required. When I play my Warrior I use Signet of Stamina+Warhorn (which do stack!).

Greatsword Whirlwind is an extra dodge that comes with a 7-20k damage with it.

Ioflux.4369:

The joke isnt so much the build (some parts are definitely viable), but the attitude and tone of the guy making the post and previous guides he’s posted. I’ve played around with DPS guardian builds and theres certainly some fun / viable / optimal builds, but to go as far as say that guardian’s can outdps a warrior in a group buffing environment is just silly.

I don’t follow his posts but from what I see, he’s claiming that guardian has more room for growth in the party because warrior by himself alone can get 10-15, even 25 stacks of might with 10 stacks of vulnerability and almost perma fury. Since those things have limits, it’s pretty good observation from his side. I don’t know how true it is though.

haviz.1340:

Ioflux.4369:

The joke isnt so much the build (some parts are definitely viable), but the attitude and tone of the guy making the post and previous guides he’s posted. I’ve played around with DPS guardian builds and theres certainly some fun / viable / optimal builds, but to go as far as say that guardian’s can outdps a warrior in a group buffing environment is just silly.

I don’t follow his posts but from what I see, he’s claiming that guardian has more room for growth in the party because warrior by himself alone can get 10-15, even 25 stacks of might with 10 stacks of vulnerability and almost perma fury. Since those things have limits, it’s pretty good observation from his side. I don’t know how true it is though.

He’s made claims saying 3 guardians 1 warrior 1 mesmer pulls out more dps than 1 guardian 3 warriors 1 mesmer setups. More utility? Yes. More survivability? Yes. More blocks? Yes. More dps? Not seeing it…

Ioflux.4369:

He’s made claims saying 3 guardians 1 warrior 1 mesmer pulls out more dps than 1 guardian 3 warriors 1 mesmer setups. More utility? Yes. More survivability? Yes. More blocks? Yes. More dps? Not seeing it…

Depends where because reflects do a lot of damage, same as Guardian loaded with boons.

haviz.1340:

Ioflux.4369:

He’s made claims saying 3 guardians 1 warrior 1 mesmer pulls out more dps than 1 guardian 3 warriors 1 mesmer setups. More utility? Yes. More survivability? Yes. More blocks? Yes. More dps? Not seeing it…

Depends where because reflects do a lot of damage, same as Guardian loaded with boons.

His basis was cof 1 lol.

haviz.1340:

Ioflux.4369:

The joke isnt so much the build (some parts are definitely viable), but the attitude and tone of the guy making the post and previous guides he’s posted. I’ve played around with DPS guardian builds and theres certainly some fun / viable / optimal builds, but to go as far as say that guardian’s can outdps a warrior in a group buffing environment is just silly.

I don’t follow his posts but from what I see, he’s claiming that guardian has more room for growth in the party because warrior by himself alone can get 10-15, even 25 stacks of might with 10 stacks of vulnerability and almost perma fury. Since those things have limits, it’s pretty good observation from his side. I don’t know how true it is though.

He’s terrible. He makes a bunch of threads with false information based on his “spreadsheets”, without every providing real ingame footage, and when he gets called out he never returns to the thread. At this point he pretty much stays in the guardian forums. I’ve called him out for a bunch of dumb stuff like:
- how Guardian is better then mesmer in CoF 1 with 4 warriors
- how guardians do the most dps out of any class in the game because “warriors rely on a 3.5s root to maximize dps which is unreliable”
- how he tried to say Axe/Mace warriors do bad damage in the warrior forums and proceeded to leave when everyone called him out on it
- how berserker mesmers do “no damage” compared to guardians and their only benefit is TW and how Guardian Tome of Wrath is better in most cases.
- how apparently full dps sword guardians are the “ultimate dps build”
- how Guardians got a “massive nerf” when they fixed the auto attack dodge bug because he couldn’t cancel dodges anymore

And here is my favorite quote of all time from him:
“A sword guardian with fury does so much damage in Timewarp it makes axe warriors look like axe necromancers. If your priority is burning down the Slave Driver and Effigy fast, you only need one warrior for fury stacking. The rest should be sword/greatsword guardians. The sheer amount of damage symbol > whirl > bind > swap > 1h sword auto spam deals in Timewarp is so huge it should be considered a sploit and we should be banned for even talking about it.”

Basically if you kill time on the gw2guru forums you’ll realize what a joke he is and the fact he never provides proof or ingame footage for his claims.

Going back to CoE, my advice would be “1 missisipi, 2 missisipi, dodge”. Defensive gear won’t help you at all.

LyzeUH.1398:

But basically, you can walk out of every aoe circle w/o having to dodge. If you must though, count 1 and 2 then dodge.

Like everything else, the better the party is the easier the encounter is.

Alpha fights everyone should stack, when he throws down the “3 red rings of death” AOE (doesn’t in path 1) then count to 3 then dodge (not 2.. if you dodge to early you will get hit with some of the AOE still). If anyone gets downed everyone still standing can revive those that failed to dodge quickly and easily. If everyone runs around willy nilly then you are going to have a whole room of red circles, which is bad.

There is no need for Vigor when everyone is stacked as the triple ring AOE is the only one you need to worry about and it doesn’t happen continuously (i.e. you should always have enough endurance to dodge)

Furthermore, for the fights where he imprisons someone in a crystal prison — if everyone is stacked then everyone’s AOE attacks should quickly destroy the prison.

As a guardian if you take the Writ where all symbols heal this should be enough to help heal your group through the other AOE dmg. from the random mobs and pitiful other Alpha attacks — if even needed, all depends on group makeup.

There are a couple of non-Alpha encounters with other special things going on but why ruin your fun of getting to know them first

Just to name a few—

Laser Grid (only need 4 people not 5 and only 2 on other side) / Control panel with exploding golems room — need 5 clicks but experienced groups can do it in 2 waves instead of 5 / Evolved Husk and not attacking him but using the terrain,NPCs,Gun against instead / Most off map areas have been closed but there are still a few where you can do more than 1 path at the same time / etc. etc.

You can skip most all the risen encounters.

Full Berserker set and a dodge meter.

Berserker set is useful to take the boss down quickly, a dead boss does 0 damage. A dodge meter is what you need to dodge the AoE.

Ioflux.4369:

Oglaf.1074:

VIGOR

This buff is king against Subject Alpha due to the constant dodging required. When I play my Warrior I use Signet of Stamina+Warhorn (which do stack!).

Greatsword Whirlwind is an extra dodge that comes with a 7-20k damage with it.

Doesn’t really help my party though. The Vigor/Weakness from Warhorn does.

Thanks for all the feedback folks, the general consensus would appear to be, don’t bother getting better runes/trinkets for tanking cuz it won’t help you any. I was planning on doing this for the P/P/C armor set but from what people are saying, it sounds like it might be worthwhile getting berzerker set in order to run it, at the very least, it’d probably be wothwhile getting P/P/C trinkets for it. I did already buy a bunch of +endurance recharge food in preparation for this because I’d seen on youtube about how much dodging is necessary with alpha.

I have been doing a fair bit of Twilight Arbor for a +healing armor set as well, so I’ve been getting in the habit of spending most of my time dodging with the nightmare vines where they are spawn lots and lots of AOE circles, and the same goes with Malrona but I struggle a lot with Malrona because of how quickly her AOE kills you, which sounds a lot like how CoE is gonna work out.

Thanks for all the advice, especially the P/P/C advice, thats the last thing I expected to hear!

knowing when to dodge will help you alot more then any gear you equip in CoE.

Renegade.6325:

Toughness and vitality wont help you last longer in CoE, may as well just run straight damage and play smart.

Learn the bosses and encounters, know when to dodge, know what spells are most useful (ie. reflect, stability, boon removal all have their place).