Guild Wars 2

“oh what’s that, you need to use death blossom to AoE bleed your enemies? i’m sorry, the battles take place on tiny bridges, so either you risk falling off and spending the entire battle dead on the bottom of the pit, or you ignore your condition spec and spend the battle spamming backstab”

a lot of areas in the game hate death blossom (and its completely unsafe leap over enemies) already, but at least i could respawn. no such thing in dungeons, and having so many battles and events focusing on tiny bridges make it kind of annoying for thieves.

I feel this way in many areas of the game. Would love to chain DB…. can’t, will fall to my death.

I would honestly love an update to this skill that just prevented the skill from taking you off your current plane…. but that would likely be kitten hard to program.

Seems like you’re making a sweeping statement based off of one encounter in CoF Path 1 and one more in Path 3.

Cute.

I’ve fallen off many of those kinds of terrain with more than just DB. Sometimes, I miss invisible walls for scenarios like that. In any case, why not just ask your group to re-locate the mobs? You don’t have to fight on the bridge, and also, those encounters are just a really small portion of the runs, anyways.

I DB just fine on bridges in CoF, because you know, I don’t randomly spam it?

i sometimes end up stuck in the walls/textures because of DB and/or steal
this is even worse than dying ! (especially in fractals where there are no WP)

funny thread wish i did a run with you

Why the hell are u playing a D/D Thief in dungeons? they don’t have cleave on Auto attacks, it’s pointless, (except on some bosses) you’re crippling your character and your slaking for the team.

It makes other people lul when he falls of the bridge, duh.

Komuflage.2307:

Why the hell are u playing a D/D Thief in dungeons? they don’t have cleave on Auto attacks, it’s pointless, (except on some bosses) you’re crippling your character and your slaking for the team.

D/D opens up condition builds (AoE with Death Blossom) with Caltrops etc., and the autoattack can apply consistent poison and weakness on single-boss encounters eg. slowing the Effigy’s healing in CoF 1. You also have much higher spike DPS on a single target, which again is very useful on bosses.

HURR DURR MOAR CLEAVE, BERSREKERS ONLI.

Komuflage.2307:

Why the hell are u playing a D/D Thief in dungeons? they don’t have cleave on Auto attacks, it’s pointless, (except on some bosses) you’re crippling your character and your slaking for the team.

I thought most people skip everything. Skipping means you fight mostly bosses. Bosses means single targets only. Following that logic you might reconsider what you’ve said.

BrunoBRS.5178:

“oh what’s that, you need to use death blossom to AoE bleed your enemies? i’m sorry, the battles take place on tiny bridges, so either you risk falling off and spending the entire battle dead on the bottom of the pit, or you ignore your condition spec and spend the battle spamming backstab”

a lot of areas in the game hate death blossom (and its completely unsafe leap over enemies) already, but at least i could respawn. no such thing in dungeons, and having so many battles and events focusing on tiny bridges make it kind of annoying for thieves.

Wrong. Most of the fights do not take place on narrow bridges, and even those that do are often skipped anyway.

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong. Most of the fights do not take place on narrow bridges, and even those that do are often skipped anyway.

I wanted to comment on the skipping…. there are those of us out there who roll in static groups that both kill the bridge boss, and the unified ooze boss in CoF p1. If the boss in either of those fights winds up somewhere near the edge, you quickly find yourself in a position where DB falls out of use and you’re down to other skills….. when DB is a core part of how you stack bleeds, it kind of sucks to cut it out. At least the warriors can aim the way their whirl goes…. thieves…. not so lucky.

Also, fights in places like the end of SE Story that can put you on bridges over lava are also a problem for unintentionally spatting yourself into hazards that should be a no-brainer to avoid. And they are a no-brainer to avoid…. just stop using one of your more useful skills!

CassieGold.7460:

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong. Most of the fights do not take place on narrow bridges, and even those that do are often skipped anyway.

I wanted to comment on the skipping…. there are those of us out there who roll in static groups that both kill the bridge boss, and the unified ooze boss in CoF p1. If the boss in either of those fights winds up somewhere near the edge, you quickly find yourself in a position where DB falls out of use and you’re down to other skills….. when DB is a core part of how you stack bleeds, it kind of sucks to cut it out. At least the warriors can aim the way their whirl goes…. thieves…. not so lucky.

Also, fights in places like the end of SE Story that can put you on bridges over lava are also a problem for unintentionally spatting yourself into hazards that should be a no-brainer to avoid. And they are a no-brainer to avoid…. just stop using one of your more useful skills!

Firstly, the conversation is not about SE nor was my post about SE.

Secondly, it’s your choice to not skip optional mobs, but to turn around and complain about the totally optional encounter being too difficult for a certain class/weapon setup under only specific situations that are easily avoidable is not valid.

How about you just position yourself properly so you don’t fall off when using death blossom?

It wasn’t until the Dreadnaught cliffs that I realized why it was called Death Blossom.

BrunoBRS.5178:

“oh what’s that, you need to use death blossom to AoE bleed your enemies? i’m sorry, the battles take place on tiny bridges, so either you risk falling off and spending the entire battle dead on the bottom of the pit, or you ignore your condition spec and spend the battle spamming backstab”

This is a symptom of a bigger problem in GW2, related to falling in general.

• If you’re a player, your own (automatically aimed) abilities can make you fall to your death.

• If you’re an AI-controlled monster, you get a “safety net” (invisible wall) that prevents you from falling off ledges even if players deliberately use a knockdown / pushback skill on you.

Apparently “player fun” ranks below “mob survival” in Arena Net’s design priorities. Go figure…

As a DD theif I can say the landing of death blossom is very predictable based on your position and the postition of your target…once you get that down you will have no problem placing yourself int he correct position to initiate the DB and land safely. I have run cof dozens of times.

I actually love the way DB works. It’s much more fun for me to worry about my position and such, than to just whack buttons.

You can successfully DB a mob on the edge of a cliff or bridge by positioning yourself on one side of the mob on the edge and flipping to the other side on the edge. It just requires that you don’t spam DB and execute some character control.

Also…while traits may be set specific to a weapon set, you can swap a lot of your traits on the fly and we have…gasp…weapon swap. While you may not be at peak performance with different weapons and traits, this game is not about topping damage meters and there are no enrage timers.

Thank god dungeons and encounters are not designed to make sure every weapon and trait set works perfectly every time.

Death Blossom is TERRIBLE DPS, it is a PvP ability.

If you want to roll condition in PvE go Necromancer and you will cry over all the time you wasted thinking 3 bleeds was good.

DeathPanel.8362:

Firstly, the conversation is not about SE nor was my post about SE.

Secondly, it’s your choice to not skip optional mobs, but to turn around and complain about the totally optional encounter being too difficult for a certain class/weapon setup under only specific situations that are easily avoidable is not valid.

1) I like to broaden the conversation when possible to illustrate that the issue is applicable to more situations than the one originally expressed, the comment was not aimed at you in specific, but was meant to add breadth to a conversation.

2) I’m not arguing that it makes the encounter more difficult. Frankly, if you can’t position to land DB successfully, you can chain auto attack and spam Heartseeker through the encounter while still maintaining poison from the auto attack chain to get some leverage out of a condition spec.

the point that I want to make is that narrow confine encounters are limiting on this skill compared to similar skills in other classes.

Suggestion for improvement != statement that the current options are not possible, just that the status quo is sub-optimal.

Follow up for comments about mobs not being able to be knocked off cliffs: The devs have weighed in on this (I think in the Events section) and said that it’s because if certain mobs were knocked into places that they were un-reachable it could break event pathing and lead to events that failed to start…. less of a problem in the confined world of dungeons, but implemented as a behavior world wide.

Suggestion for operating in the environment with the current behavior of DB: Dodge Roll that drops caltrops to position for DB, launching DB, then dodge rolling back into position before hitting DB again gives you 2x sets of caltrops under your target to stack more bleeds, and is the most viable way I’ve seen to use the skill to optimal advantage in the current setup.

Scootabuser.4915:

Death Blossom is TERRIBLE DPS, it is a PvP ability.

If you want to roll condition in PvE go Necromancer and you will cry over all the time you wasted thinking 3 bleeds was good.

3 bleeds no…. but chain DB x3 + some caltrops and you start racking up 12+ stacks of bleed Of course, if you want to spam DB that fast, you risk falling off a cliff some times…. which was the point of the thread :P

CassieGold.7460:

Scootabuser.4915:

Death Blossom is TERRIBLE DPS, it is a PvP ability.

If you want to roll condition in PvE go Necromancer and you will cry over all the time you wasted thinking 3 bleeds was good.

3 bleeds no…. but chain DB x3 + some caltrops and you start racking up 12+ stacks of bleed Of course, if you want to spam DB that fast, you risk falling off a cliff some times…. which was the point of the thread :P

Stupid thief, hes contesting me for damage! – Necromancer :<

D/D condition thief is one of those PvE builds that only exist because of easy dungeons.

It’s like a condition guardian with a bleed on crit sigil.

CassieGold.7460:

DeathPanel.8362:

Firstly, the conversation is not about SE nor was my post about SE.

Secondly, it’s your choice to not skip optional mobs, but to turn around and complain about the totally optional encounter being too difficult for a certain class/weapon setup under only specific situations that are easily avoidable is not valid.

1) I like to broaden the conversation when possible to illustrate that the issue is applicable to more situations than the one originally expressed, the comment was not aimed at you in specific, but was meant to add breadth to a conversation.

2) I’m not arguing that it makes the encounter more difficult. Frankly, if you can’t position to land DB successfully, you can chain auto attack and spam Heartseeker through the encounter while still maintaining poison from the auto attack chain to get some leverage out of a condition spec.

the point that I want to make is that narrow confine encounters are limiting on this skill compared to similar skills in other classes.

Taking that very specific situation that occurs only on a tiny optional part of a select dungeon run to a specific class/weapon combination as evidence of limitions for that class is not convincing.

In any case auto/HS is better for dps anyway in that situation.

There is a cunning plan for thieves in dungeons. Swap your weapons. Pick your fights for the shortbow, pistols, melee, and be capable with all of them. A lot of CoF is fine for a shortbow with groups of 3-8 mobs in an aoe cluster. The fire breathing mobs don’t like an interrupt from a pistol. If you really want fun with dagger/dagger in a dungeon then I suggest you head over to TA instead.

Scootabuser.4915:

Death Blossom is TERRIBLE DPS, it is a PvP ability.

If you want to roll condition in PvE go Necromancer and you will cry over all the time you wasted thinking 3 bleeds was good.

One of the reasons that I don’t run my d/d thief in pve is that I regularly hit the bleed cap too easily on my own, which makes for bad group synergy and does not play well with my rotation. Clearly, a lack of bleed stacks is not the issue.

CoF hates my warrior, I cant use Whirlwind everywhere…
See how silly your argument is, sure you cant spam Death Blossom, spam Heartseeker like every thief in WvW for instant win instead.

Drachshyish.2319:

CoF hates my warrior, I cant use Whirlwind everywhere…
See how silly your argument is, sure you cant spam Death Blossom, spam Heartseeker like every thief in WvW for instant win instead.

Not to be a troll with it, but you can aim whirlwind, not so much with Death Blossom.

Auesis.7301:

Komuflage.2307:

Why the hell are u playing a D/D Thief in dungeons? they don’t have cleave on Auto attacks, it’s pointless, (except on some bosses) you’re crippling your character and your slaking for the team.

D/D opens up condition builds (AoE with Death Blossom) with Caltrops etc., and the autoattack can apply consistent poison and weakness on single-boss encounters eg. slowing the Effigy’s healing in CoF 1. You also have much higher spike DPS on a single target, which again is very useful on bosses.

HURR DURR MOAR CLEAVE, BERSREKERS ONLI.

Like I said, it’s only useful on some bosses, and the topic here is that he falls of bridges etc with his D/D, there is no bosses in CoF Explo, that’s on a bridge/Ledge

This whole topic is just ridiculous, people are actually complaining that they can fail if they just spam a attack.

Take the extra second to position urself so u wont fall of a ledge, problem solved.
People are getting dumber and dumber by each day.

BrunoBRS.5178:

“oh what’s that, you need to use death blossom to AoE bleed your enemies? i’m sorry, the battles take place on tiny bridges, so either you risk falling off and spending the entire battle dead on the bottom of the pit, or you ignore your condition spec and spend the battle spamming backstab”

a lot of areas in the game hate death blossom (and its completely unsafe leap over enemies) already, but at least i could respawn. no such thing in dungeons, and having so many battles and events focusing on tiny bridges make it kind of annoying for thieves.

Sounds like you don’t know how death blossom works. I can death blossom over and over in a cof brazier without kicking the controller dude or death blossom on any bridge/cliff without falling off, it’s called l2p and position yourself.

Also don’t say they hate d/d thieves, not every thief who runs d/d is a condition build who spams death blossom over and over (which isn’t the build you should bring to "speed runs / speed farming groups)normal runs sure.

I run d/d glass cannon and do a ton of dmg with backstab every 5 seconds and a fast regular attack, death blossom I only use if my endurance runs out during the last boss which helps me evade without needing endurance.

Cof hates you, not D/D thieves, please don’t lump me in with you.

So you’re asking that encounters will be adjusted to your playstyle instead of you adjusting your playstyle to the encounter? I think you misunderstood GW2. You can switch weapons/skills/traits easily anytime you want for a reason…… maybe you won’t have the ultimate setup for the encounter that way, but hey, you can’t have everything the easy way.

Wartna.8671:

So you’re asking that encounters will be adjusted to your playstyle instead of you adjusting your playstyle to the encounter? I think you misunderstood GW2. You can switch weapons/skills/traits easily anytime you want for a reason…… maybe you won’t have the ultimate setup for the encounter that way, but hey, you can’t have everything the easy way.

The problem is that people want it as easy as possible, so they don’t have to learn anything.
CoF P1 last Boss – Nerfed. (Learn how to dps, keep poison up?)

CoF P2 Last room before boss – NERFED. (Learn that you could actually kill all the mobs as long as you focus, and attack then in a good order)

CoF P3 Torches – Nerfed. (You could actually kill 2 mobs at each torch, Then you could spread out and every1 could deal with the 1 mob left, without a problem)

But instead people run in > fail > try it again without changing tactic > fail > once more, fail, complain at the forum > Nerf.

I stopped playing because I got bored of just running the same instances over and over. Then I heard that they patched so you couldn’t respawn until the group was out of combat, sounds awesome in theory, but since it’s so rare that someone dies in our group, it didn’t make a noticeable difference.
So I took another brake. Tried it again 3 days ago, went into CoF P1, then CoF P2, just to find they changed the last room, so instead of loads of vet mobs.
There now is loads of normal mob, and 1 CRIPPLED vet spawning every once in a while.

The fight changed from being a fight u need to somewhat focus on, to a fight where I just ran in a circle spamming 1.

“Explorable dungeons are for coordinated groups” Biggest bullkitten I’ve ever heard. They’re constantly nerfing the dungeons so they fit the pugs who can’t even learn how to dodge properly. (People are actually complaining on Subject Alpha… All you have to do is get in melee range, spam your abilitys, w8 1-2 seconds after he use his ice AOEs, then press V. Rince and repeat. Nothing hard about that At all. It just takes 2-3 tries before you get it)

Account.9832:

BrunoBRS.5178:

“oh what’s that, you need to use death blossom to AoE bleed your enemies? i’m sorry, the battles take place on tiny bridges, so either you risk falling off and spending the entire battle dead on the bottom of the pit, or you ignore your condition spec and spend the battle spamming backstab”

This is a symptom of a bigger problem in GW2, related to falling in general.

• If you’re a player, your own (automatically aimed) abilities can make you fall to your death.

• If you’re an AI-controlled monster, you get a “safety net” (invisible wall) that prevents you from falling off ledges even if players deliberately use a knockdown / pushback skill on you.

Apparently “player fun” ranks below “mob survival” in Arena Net’s design priorities. Go figure…

Actually, this was done for a reason. As content designer Jeffrey Vaughn commented on another thread (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/knock-Backs-over-a-cliff):

1) It’s too easy to exploit, since AI creatures aren’t aware enough to a avoid being backed up to a cliff.

2) What happens if you knock an enemy into an bad spot and their corpse had an item you need? Or the fall isn’t enough to kill them, but now you can’t reach them, and they can’t reach you, so now you can’t kill them? This would potentially block a story step, or event.

This problem is worse for a sword ranger as both our 1 and 2 skills have the potential to send us off cliffs.
At the same time,i’m not really complaining,it’s one of those things you just have to adjust to.

I run a D/D Thief in fractals, I think I’ve only fallen on the Colossus fractal once (due to DB) in the last 20 or so runs. It’s very predictable. It always moves the same distance. You can even stand on the edge of a platform, death blossom over a mob and then hit it again and you are all but guaranteed not to fall off. The trick with a Thief is to be really careful to watch the enemies health bar, because if he dies just as you activate an ability it can cause you to target a new mob and that can cause issues.