(edited by Moderator)
[Compilation] Dungeon Woes
Most of these “woes” are only effecting the bottom of the bottom tier of players.
The token costs are effecting the impatient, spoiled “I WANT IT NOW!” mentality.
The main “woes” are the plethora of bugs, including but not limited to, NPCs just not moving or responding. A compilation of bugs would be far more helpful, and far less deceitful than just listing every opinion that you agree with.
bottom of the bottom tier of players? haha who does this guy think he is haha
like it like it
apathy name/lvl is your toon? i must see this top tier bad as god of a player in action!
What about WP zerging/corpse rushing? It makes the objective of dungeons too easy as no real strategy is needed. If it weren’t so easy to do this, people would probably be forced to actually think and prepare for dungeons. With that, the other problems would be as bad. People are just not thinking and running into dungeons and complaining they are being 1 shotted because their magic find gear doesn’t help you kill bosses. I go into dungeons with my magic find gear, because it’s all I’ve cared to make and I know it won’t be that hard. Me and or a group mate may die at a boss once or twice. No big deal, just run back.
Should be #1 complaint!
http://www.pwnzerfaust.com/ – Dragonbrand
What about WP zerging/corpse rushing? It makes the objective of dungeons too easy as no real strategy is needed.
It is only viable in story mode.
Anet should ban apathy from the forums for being a troll.
What about WP zerging/corpse rushing? It makes the objective of dungeons too easy as no real strategy is needed.
It is only viable in story mode.
No it is not. It is viable in most situations. Depending on how far the closest WP is.
http://www.pwnzerfaust.com/ – Dragonbrand
AC explorable mode isn’t hard, it just requires a totally different mindset than general PvE, once you know the encounters and how to deal with the trash its easy.
TA is also fairly easy although some of the trash has incredibly high burst.
The issue with dungeons, is the difficulty curve, they are very unforgiving and people lack the patience to learn the encounters and how to deal with the mobs, this learning process is hampered by bugs and in some cases a total lack of tell tale signs for when an npc is using a powerful ability.
These signs are often hidden or made difficult to spot due to the spell effect soup often around when in group scenarios.
The core problem for all these issues is that dungeons are simply not fun to play due to the overuse of tanky trash mobs a.k.a. virtual loading bars. They are there only to lengthen the dungeons, which would otherwise be short and low in content. Once they have made their health to normal levels they can start making an actual challange and once the dungeons are actually fun to play people wouldn’t mind high token costs for items. After that they can totally remove corpse running, if you are wiped you are wiped.
(edited by Fox.1054)
Ok i don’t think people comprehend how bad the reward is for dungeons, I mean some are easy but some are just frustratingly hard, people would probably not mind about he difficulty if they can see some light at the end of the dark tunnel (meaning a attainable reward)
So let me break it down for you people who talk so much about “L2P” and “This is how end game challenge is suppose to be” and probably never spent more than 3-5 runs of the easy mode CoF exp mode
As it stands cost of Dungeon Tokens per piece of gear is:
Helm=180
Shoulder=210
Chest=330
Gloves=180
Legs=300
Boots=180
2h weapon=390
1h weapon=300
Off hand weapon=210
now lets say the average player will just want to get the 6 pieces of armor and get a different weapon so thats a total of 1380 tokens, and per dungeon run you get 20 per run, IF you want that you will need 69 runs of the same dungeon over and over and over again, if you want a full set of weapon and armor your looking at about 90 runs or 100 for two 1 hander. Now if you love the game and would probably make multiple characters/toon multiply that amount by how ever many toon you want to make.
After that break down if you still think that the reward system is fine then you just have TOO much time on your hand and Anet is a big fat lier for advertising a game that is suppose to be “GRIND FREE”
If you think that 100+ runs of the same dungeon easy or not is not a Grind then you need to walk in to your local psychiatrist and have a good check up
I am not suggesting make the dungeons easier just fix it, the game is a different type of dungeon system and learning it is part of it, although there are a few bugs that need to be fixed but the reward system is the major flaw.
I don’t think its enjoyable to do the same dungeon over and over 100+ times to pick up one set of gear for 1 of your toon, what if you want to collect the other dungeon sets or what if you want it for multiple characters/toon.
Some people might say “ohh that is end game and there would be no replayability if you lower the reward” actually that would be the complete opposite, people would probably play more because they know it is attainable and they can do it with multiple toons which would make the dungeon less boring and tedious grind
What about WP zerging/corpse rushing? It makes the objective of dungeons too easy as no real strategy is needed.
It is only viable in story mode.
That is the most false statement I have ever read. Explorable Modes are completely zerg-able. Is it the most efficient way to complete a dungeon? By all means no but is it possible? Yes. Is it encouraged? With how easy and cheap it is to do I would almost say yes. Does it take away from the game play? Yes. Now I’m not saying that I do it, because I will explain how it happens below.
Zerging a boss takes away from the deep combat of the game. What it requires is 1-2 people who stay alive long enough for their fallen allies to corpse run back to the fight and get receive almost no penalty for their lack of strategy, awareness and thoughtfulness in ones build for the fight.
This issue may not seem like a terrible thing, and maybe completely over exaggerated about how it ruins your experience, but it is suppose to be more challenging content. Its not often you run into a boss were the group goes ‘just burn him’ because you cant play that way. Why would A-net want to change “just tank and spank” to just relying on bad abuseable mechanics. Thats honestly what it feels like during the times I have to choose to run back. That I’m taking advantage of something that’s not suppose to be in the game. I know I could chose not to do it, but its their to be used, it would be like not using an ultimate during a fight, or not resurrecting downed allies.
Gotta agree with what Kurzick, Fox and the OP posted. I only plan to do each dungeon line once just to learn the lore. The gameplay is boring and the rewards are just not worth it.
Personal story, events and PvP are GW2’s strong points. Dungeons are a weak point(except for the writing).
My biggest problem with dungeons right now is the boss HP. Giving a boss 10 billion HP does not make the fight hard. All it does is make the fight extremely boring.
I’d rather see GOOD 1-2 minutes than 10-20 minutes fight where you get bored after 3 minutes and just auto-attack the other 17 minutes.
Some bosses are also completely broken (TA endboss, anyone?) and some trash mobs are harder than bosses.
I feel the Zaitan fight should be a Hot Topic of its own. Other than that, agree with everything said here.
I’m pleased with the responses in this thread. Keep it up! Comments from folks like Apathy don’t serve to help the issue at hand, but considering his current track record, they’re generally overlooked.
In any case, I have updated the OP with more information. I do agree on what’s been stated. There is too much frustration in dungeons with the mismatch of power scaling and trigger points* without proper incentive to balance. Challenging content is always fun and welcomed with open arms, however as it stands now it is just tedious to wade through. Taking from what Mythazor stated, giving bosses loads of HP does not make the fight hard.
- [A personal experience in CM Explore – Seraph path. The part where you have to lay down five barrels at the door to explode it in the midst of infinitely spawning bandits. A fair portion being silver. It requires near perfection attempt or a lucky/well coordinated pre-spawn first try. Eventually there are just too many mobs around that you’ll be lucky to get to the door alive, much more prevent the bandits from instantly scooping up the barrels and running away.]
While I feel Anet are really not caring and are not really browsing the forums seriously like they did during beta (sad and disspointing), here are my ideas for change:
- The difficulties are quite questionable, but my main hate for dungeons right now is how trash mobs have so so soooo much health. Why should a trash mob take so long to kill and at times be harder than a sub-boss/boss? After a while it feels like a rag pulling a mob one at a time for a 3 minute span in which you are just beating down on the one mob so you can move on to the next. This idea carries on to my two next ideas.
- Time length. The vast amount of healthpools available to trashmobs seem to extend these dungeons from a respectable completion time of 1ish-hours, to upwards of 3’s. Anet need to remember that casual players might find this fact discouraging and that, above all, the time consumed is not worth the reward from the dungeons.
- This concept of difficulty. I am just going to say it straight out that I believe your concept of increasing mob damage towards the ‘1-hit KO’ echelon and giving them incredible healthpools seems like a lazy design action in terms of difficulty. I am sick of these repair costs, just because playing an ele means i will almost always be one shot by mobs or bosses, no I dont play a glass cannon.
I think you can get alot of people interested in dungeons again just be decreasing the mob health. This would allow dungeons to be cleared faster (hence being more efficient for time) and it would also make them a much more enjoyable experiance. Right now, I can only only speak for all the groups I have been involved in, we are spending a ton more time killing trash mobs than we are on the bosses. That should really not be the case.
Dungeons and grinding for mats are, no offense to fanboys who dont agree, esentially the endgame of this game. Sure we could WvW, we could go make a new character, but grinding for cosmetics and our legendaries are what is really keeping the majority of your fanbase here, so I can see why you would want dungeons to be hard and time consuming. But people ARE being discouraged from dungeoning. It is not time efficient. It is not cash efficient. It is not even rewarding (if you think the experiance is rewarding, good for you, I and many others beg to differ). It is, above all, dissapointing. It is a feature with so much potential, but so far, has really not been fun or an enjoyable experiance.
Minion