Guild Wars 2

Title says it all, I am pretty confused and hugely baffled on why players are complaining about the removal of waypoint ressing. This is the norm in every MMO.

And why did they have it? For the exact same reason GW2 implemented it, so that players wouldnt zerg rush a boss. Now, there was a time wayyyy back in WoW’s early days where you could revive at the graveyard, run back into the raid / dungeon, and continue fighting the boss, but they fixed that quick after seeing how players would just use it as a tactic to overcome raid bosses (specially world raid bosses). But were talking 2002-2003 here.

This mechanic has been in every MMO to date, and it was very odd to see that it wasnt in this game in the first 4 months. Never understood it, but its been resolved now.. +1 ANET!!

Remember: WoW has it. Rift has it. EQ2 has it. <your choice of MMO> has it!

EDIT: Sorry about the title, sucks having to keep it under 45 chars

Yea it’s kinda weird that people assumed this was the intended mode of play and want it back.

I don’t think I’ve every played a game where this was a valid and acceptable method of play. It’s pure cheese.

History Lesson here too: Wayyyyyy back in EQ1 days, before WoW, etc.. revive ressing was the norm in that game.
I remember all the casters binding themselves near the raid boss before the fight too!

WoW and EQ2 devs saw this too, they hated it. Trivialized every raid boss in the game, even though fights would take hours, and death penalties in that game were HARSH! (Imagine the crying if it was implemented in current games!!). Hence the mechanic they have now in MMOs where you either all wipe, or boss goes down

More Fact: Around when Planes of Power came out, corpse rushing the boss was the standard tactic to down Raid bosses, and every elite guild out there would use this tactic. I remember when guild <Afterlife> would spend 2-3 hours on a raid boss, tactic being to have players run back into the fight after dying.

Well there you go, I never played EQ (was still playing UO til DAOC).

I don’t think I’ve every played a game where this was a valid and acceptable method of play. It’s pure cheese.

Graveyard zerging was sometimes the only possible way to down a boss. The huge kitten colossi in the AQ event are an example.

Shimond.2478:

Well there you go, I never played EQ (was still playing UO til DAOC).

I feel old now, LOL (Im 31), and I did play me some UO back in the day too

Res-rushing did exist in World of Warcraft early on. When you died, you “released” and you were thrown outside the instance, sometimes 2-5 minutes away as a ghost. You had to return to the instance portal to resurrect, and you zoned in at the very beginning. Out-of-combat resurrection was also common in instances.

After a few months, the designers did away with all of these cheesy strategies by putting the entire zone into combat when you engaged a boss (to prevent “OOC ressing”) and also prevented a dead player from zoning in while an encounter was in progress. Res-rushing was also quelled on outdoor encounters, because of unique mechanics developed for those bosses. For instance, some bosses put a debuff on you if you died. If you re-engaged the boss with this debuff, you would instantly die.

On a side note; It’s interesting how many different names there are for this phenomenon.

I’ve always known it as Zombie Rushing.

Nokaru.7831:

Res-rushing did exist in World of Warcraft early on. When you died, you “released” and you were thrown outside the instance, sometimes 2-5 minutes away as a ghost. You had to return to the instance portal to resurrect, and you zoned in at the very beginning. Out-of-combat resurrection was also common in instances.

After a few months, the designers did away with all of these cheesy strategies by putting the entire zone into combat when you engaged a boss (to prevent “OOC ressing”) and also prevented a dead player from zoning in while an encounter was in progress. Res-rushing was also quelled on outdoor encounters, because of unique mechanics developed for those bosses. For instance, some bosses put a debuff on you if you died. If you re-engaged the boss with this debuff, you would instantly die.

Yeah, I remember that (thought I mentioned it above about how it was in the early days of WoW). But forgot about that debuff thing they would do for world bosses

Vox Hollow.2736:

On a side note; It’s interesting how many different names there are for this phenomenon.

I’ve always known it as Zombie Rushing.

Yea in SWG PVP it was common to ‘clone zerg’ in cities too, which was also met with disdain by most :P

Nokaru.7831:

Res-rushing did exist in World of Warcraft early on. When you died, you “released” and you were thrown outside the instance, sometimes 2-5 minutes away as a ghost. You had to return to the instance portal to resurrect, and you zoned in at the very beginning. Out-of-combat resurrection was also common in instances.

After a few months, the designers did away with all of these cheesy strategies by putting the entire zone into combat when you engaged a boss (to prevent “OOC ressing”) and also prevented a dead player from zoning in while an encounter was in progress. Res-rushing was also quelled on outdoor encounters, because of unique mechanics developed for those bosses. For instance, some bosses put a debuff on you if you died. If you re-engaged the boss with this debuff, you would instantly die.

All true, it existed they took it out. HOWEVER, these games implement 2 mechanics that GW2 is missing. First, a healing class role, that when well played would prevent the death of players in the first place. Second, a moderately cool-downed revival spell to bring eliminated players back into the fight. With these 2 in place, res rushing has NO place in the MMO. Without healing or resurrection spells, Waypoint Revival appears to me as the most natural way play the game.

in DDO, if there’s a res shrine near enough, you better believe i’m hittin’ it and runnin’ back to the fight.

Nope, learn the encounter so you wont have to zerg res kill bosses.

nicbet.1820:

All true, it existed they took it out. HOWEVER, these games implement 2 mechanics that GW2 is missing. First, a healing class role, that when well played would prevent the death of players in the first place. Second, a moderately cool-downed revival spell to bring eliminated players back into the fight. With these 2 in place, res rushing has NO place in the MMO. Without healing or resurrection spells, Waypoint Revival appears to me as the most natural way play the game.

Your examples are just tools that fit well with the game.

In GW2, we have the tools to revive people; run up to them and hit ‘F’. Even if only two people run up to someone to res them 1 or 2 seconds after they die, you are highly likely to get them back up again within 5 seconds.

On top of that, there are plenty of tools to res people in dangerous situations. Guardians can Aegis, Thieves can stealth res, Engineers can immune elixir res, high HP professions can soak a lot of damage while ressing players, etc. Some professions also have res utilities for when someone dies in a really bad spot.

Still, everyone is far more responsible for their own well being. A lack of healers just means that other players can’t fix your mistakes as quickly as in other games.

Downed != Defeated. And for almost every boss fight: Downed for > 5 seconds == Defeated.

Yeah. You know what else is in all other MMOs? Tanks, healers, you know, structured team play. Not a chaotic and choppy mess of a combat system which basically consists of, “spam skills until things r deadlol.” WP resing made it work… Sorta.

Nialiss.6459:

Yeah. You know what else is in all other MMOs? Tanks, healers, you know, structured team play. Not a chaotic and choppy mess of a combat system which basically consists of, “spam skills until things r deadlol.” WP resing made it work… Sorta.

No, WP rezing broke the Control, Support, DPS trinity that was supposed to exist, replacing it with a chaotic choppy mess that let people succeed by “spam skills until things r deadlol.” tactics instead of looking for new ones.

nicbet.1820:

First, a healing class role, that when well played would prevent the death of players in the first place. Second, a moderately cool-downed revival spell to bring eliminated players back into the fight. With these 2 in place, res rushing has NO place in the MMO. Without healing or resurrection spells, Waypoint Revival appears to me as the most natural way play the game.

Do you know why Downed stated exists to begin with? Because there are no healers, as you pointed out. That’s why we get a second chance. Everyone can heal themselves and you have the ability to immune damage very frequently through Dodging. You can also save your teammates, repeatedly, through reviving them.

If worst comes to the worst, just Ash Legion Spykit and revive the Defeated player.

Im a guardian and let me tell you Aegis is nothing. Sometimes in fact Aegis is wasted on a damage spell that does 10 damage, leaving you open to take the 5k lash hit afterward. The amount of times you will be hit while ressing downed, especially multiple people does not equal recharge time on aegis. also, why should i use the tool that makes me tanky, to “Waste” on ressing you. Learn to live because i need aegis to live or im just as squishy as a light armor if i dont have my special virtues.

Thieves stealth res is good ya, one thing that is helpful but also if players would man up and buy spykits you wouldnt need a thief.

My warrior, although 24k hp, will get downed in 5 seconds when ressing someone downed, causing me to go downed, and that player to still be downed. HP is nothing in this game when trying to res people and you have 4+ trash mobs hitting or 1 boss hitting.

JJBigs.8456:

Im a guardian and let me tell you Aegis is nothing. Sometimes in fact Aegis is wasted on a damage spell that does 10 damage, leaving you open to take the 5k lash hit afterward. The amount of times you will be hit while ressing downed, especially multiple people does not equal recharge time on aegis. also, why should i use the tool that makes me tanky, to “Waste” on ressing you. Learn to live because i need aegis to live or im just as squishy as a light armor if i dont have my special virtues.

You are contradicting yourself. First you say that aegis is easily wasted on small damage amounts, and then you say that you rely on your passive aegis for your own survivability? I think you vastly overestimate how much it does for you without clicking it.

Aegis, used appropriately, is one of the most powerful ressing tools in the game. Someone died on Subject Alpha? Run over to them and start ressing. They get an AoE on their head? Aegis, and neither of you get hit, and you complete the res without taking any damage. This can be applied to many other bosses as well, but that’s just an easy example.

Thieves stealth res is good ya, one thing that is helpful but also if players would man up and buy spykits you wouldnt need a thief.

Thing is, Thief ressing also stealths the downed player, which generally causes mobs to leave them alone, allowing much safer ressing than simply spy kitting.

My warrior, although 24k hp, will get downed in 5 seconds when ressing someone downed, causing me to go downed, and that player to still be downed. HP is nothing in this game when trying to res people and you have 4+ trash mobs hitting or 1 boss hitting.

If you’ve got all the trash mobs hitting you, your other 3 party members should be the ones ressing, so that is a bad example. Still, Warriors and Necros still have an easier time ressing people in the fray, because of their HP. That is undeniable.

Nialiss.6459:

Yeah. You know what else is in all other MMOs? Tanks, healers, you know, structured team play. Not a chaotic and choppy mess of a combat system which basically consists of, “spam skills until things r deadlol.” WP resing made it work… Sorta.

This game has plenty of team play. There is just a lot more emphasis on your own survival than other games where you are heavily reliant on the others doing their role, so it doesn’t seem as structured.

The fact that you think dungeons are “spam skills until things r deadlol” isn’t surprising if you think that WP ressing was the only thing making dungeons possible. Plenty of players can do the dungeons without any deaths, and it’s not luck.

Sarcasm On -

Why should I learn how to play the game when I’ve rode on the coattails of good, intelligent players under the system of the holy trinity?

Sarcasm off.

Pretty sure back in the days of WotLK, my DK was the tank/healer or the tank/dps for every heroic dungeon I went into (at least after a certain gear point). If I had kitten for DPS, I threw on my dps gear and told the healer to watch me carefully. If I had a kitten for a healer, I put on full tank gear and told him to not bother healing me, I had enough cooldowns and sense to know how to keep myself alive.

You want to know how my groups did a lot of the explorable modes before hitting max level and getting exotics? we used COMBO FIELDS. Need a quick heal? Blast finisher a water field = AoE heal. Don’t have water fields? Warrior shouts heal people when specced.

There are videos of glass cannon warriors soloing the hardest dungeon paths in the game. This tells me 2 things – 1) These things are pretty easy as is if they can be solo’d by some guy using a full blown dps spec with little to no survivability (thus there being no need for a healing role, barring intelligent play and 2) Nerf warriors.

mugsmoney.5239:

Title says it all, I am pretty confused and hugely baffled on why players are complaining about the removal of waypoint ressing. This is the norm in every MMO.

And why did they have it? For the exact same reason GW2 implemented it, so that players wouldnt zerg rush a boss. Now, there was a time wayyyy back in WoW’s early days where you could revive at the graveyard, run back into the raid / dungeon, and continue fighting the boss, but they fixed that quick after seeing how players would just use it as a tactic to overcome raid bosses (specially world raid bosses). But were talking 2002-2003 here.

This mechanic has been in every MMO to date, and it was very odd to see that it wasnt in this game in the first 4 months. Never understood it, but its been resolved now.. +1 ANET!!

Remember: WoW has it. Rift has it. EQ2 has it. <your choice of MMO> has it!

EDIT: Sorry about the title, sucks having to keep it under 45 chars

Sorry, But GW2 was promoted as a DIFFRENT then any other MMO. Something for ALL players and skill level. Things in other MMO’s has NOTHING to do with GW2 . Why do u elitiest keep bring up other MMO’s ? Other MMO’s have healers and someone that can Rez . U keep comparing Apples and Oranges.

Libertys Knight.4520:

mugsmoney.5239:

Title says it all, I am pretty confused and hugely baffled on why players are complaining about the removal of waypoint ressing. This is the norm in every MMO.

And why did they have it? For the exact same reason GW2 implemented it, so that players wouldnt zerg rush a boss. Now, there was a time wayyyy back in WoW’s early days where you could revive at the graveyard, run back into the raid / dungeon, and continue fighting the boss, but they fixed that quick after seeing how players would just use it as a tactic to overcome raid bosses (specially world raid bosses). But were talking 2002-2003 here.

This mechanic has been in every MMO to date, and it was very odd to see that it wasnt in this game in the first 4 months. Never understood it, but its been resolved now.. +1 ANET!!

Remember: WoW has it. Rift has it. EQ2 has it. <your choice of MMO> has it!

EDIT: Sorry about the title, sucks having to keep it under 45 chars

Sorry, But GW2 was promoted as a DIFFRENT then any other MMO. Something for ALL players and skill level. Things in other MMO’s has NOTHING to do with GW2 . Why do u elitiest keep bring up other MMO’s ?

That does not mean average players have to carry below average players in dungeons. Something for everyone doesn’t mean EVERYTHING for everyone.

DancingPenguins.9875:

That does not mean average players have to carry below average players in dungeons. Something for everyone doesn’t mean EVERYTHING for everyone.

Excuse me. No where in my post does it say that. Maybe u need to read it again. Was talking about comparing GW2 to all other MMO’s