Condi Rev Test

Condi Rev Test

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

Condi Rev Test: I waste gold so you don’t have to!

Since the release of HoT and raids, I’ve periodically encountered people asking about Condi Rev for instanced PvE. It’s always very easy to explain the theory of why it would be bad: Condi Rev’s main sources of condition damage are 1) Torment, which only does appreciable damage to moving enemies, and 2) Burning, from a fire field which only achieves maximum effect if the enemy stands in it. Self-defeating! Additionally, a Condi Rev can spam Confusion, which doesn’t do much to mobs because they don’t use skills as often as players. In other words, Condi Rev was designed around PvP.

Still, there could remain some curiosity about the numerical facts. Is it truly bad? How bad is it? Is there any situation in which it might become viable? Never fear, I am here to sort of answers these questions!

Standard caveats: I am not a PvE hero, so secondarily this means that this was kind of expensive for me, but primarily it means: 1) I may make mistakes in rotations, 2) I only ran a few tests — much of the optimization was through theory-crafting.

This is the build.


  • You’re over duration cap on Burning/Poison. This is not a question, but yes. The problem is that you’re trying to cap Torment, which has 33% through traits. Everything else is higher. You could get a 30% Burning rune, but those are Power-based. Mace is such a wet-noodle weapon that power investment is bleh. Everything except Torment has a rune, and Torment duration is your limiting reagent here. It’s the reason for a lot of the gear choices.
  • Why Balthazar? To cap Burning. The only other feasible way would involve Sigil of Smoldering and some other Rune, none of which are Condi Damage primary (reducing Torment damage). I didn’t come up with anything better than Balthazar, but I could certainly be wrong.
  • Why Sigil of Earth? There aren’t many good choices. The next best bet would be Sigil of Torment, at which point it’s a question of 8.25 seconds of Bleed every 2 seconds vs. 10 seconds of Torment every 5. If your target is moving or you’re fighting a group, Torment probably wins out. The biggest issue, however, was 18g vs. 3s.
  • Why Venom Enhancement? It’s the only dps trait in that tier. It also lets you cap Poison, which isn’t much, but free 50% duration is still free 50% duration. (By the way, no, Sigil of Blight still sucks.)
  • Why Bolstered Anguish? See above.
  • Why Invocation over Devastation? Tested both; Invocation did about 9-10% more damage (it’s mostly the Fury bonus). Devastation gives you nice Power damage bonuses but, again, Mace hits like a toilet-paper tube.
  • Why the Staff? In case your group is desperate for hard CC. I did not actually make a Viper’s Staff.
  • (Some other question.) Feel free to ask in reply.

The Rotation
There is technically a rotation, but I’m not going to write out a zillion steps, so just treat it as a priority system with regular legend-swaps. Basically, you go:

Glint
Facet of Elements -> Elemental Blast
and
Mallyx
Embrace the Darkness

In between swaps it’s four skills with this priority:
1. Searing Fissure (Mace 2)
2. Echoing Eruption (Mace 3 — if you can land multiple hits)
else Temporal Rift
3. Temporal Rift (Axe 5 — unless Mace 3 will only hit once)
else Echoing Eruption
4. Auto-attack chain

I found interrupting the AA chain for Searing Fissure to be a dps gain. I found interrupting the chain for other skills to be roughly neutral, or possibly a dps loss. In other words, the auto-attack chain sucks.

Popping your Mallyx heal to activate the Balthazar 6 bonus may be a dps gain, but bear in mind that your rotation is very Energy-intensive, so popping your heal on cd in Mallyx could run you out of Energy you’d need to use a better skill. I tried using the heal on two tests and it did not produce noticeable improvement.

The Test
All tests used four boons: 25 Might, Fury, Quickness, +1
All tests used Alacrity, as well as standard buffs (Warrior, Druid (2 GotL)). Golems had 25 Vulnerability.
I tested both stationary and mobile golems. As you know, once you pick mobility, it defaults to 1M HP and you can’t switch it, this means stationary golem dps is probably more reliable. All results are the average of multiple tests.

The Results
Stationary 4M HP: 17,107 DPS
Moving 1M HP: 18,232 DPS
Large hitbox 4M HP: 18,279 DPS

I was regularly keeping up 10+ Burning, 30+ Torment (high 20s to low 40s), 5-6 Poison, and 3-4 Bleed (ok, maybe Earth isn’t any good). After my food ran out I tried dropping Herald for Devastation and running Jalis (for Hammers) as the other Legend. There was no significant gain over pre-food tests with Herald.

Condi Rev Test

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

Conclusions
Naturally, a moving target generates more Torment damage. I was aided by the fact the golem’s path is predictable and so I could lay the fire fields appropriately. I assume the Large hitbox increase is due to Mace 3 hitting multiple times (it did).

Is it good? Not good enough. Bear in mind that given the Energy usage of your rotation, you cannot afford to keep up Facet of Nature (F2) (though you can keep up Fury during your Glint phase), and lacking Devastation means no Assassin’s Presence. You are bringing nothing but DPS, and your DPS is severely lacking compared to other pure DPS specs.

Is there any boss where it could be viable? Well, it does its best damage against a mobile enemy with a big hitbox. (Insert shruggy/smiley stick figure.) You could use it at VG, but you can use anything at VG, so that doesn’t mean much. Maybe Matt (is Abom phase large enough to be Large?), but it wouldn’t be great. Sloth has a low dps check and the Pain Absorption could save people from mistakes, but I’d worry you’d inadvertently kill your friendly slubling. Trio, maybe: It’s a lot of AoE for clearing adds, but not much CC; the ramp up is fast, but the top end is low. Escort, maybe, for the same reasons as Trio. Not really great for anything.

Post Script
The story doesn’t have a sad ending, at least, since I had actually decided to make a condi set for my PS (already have Power), so before I completed it, I gave it a detour through experimental rev land. Hope this helps somebody out there make an informed decision. Have fun.

Condi Rev Test

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Drop The Bass.9516

Drop The Bass.9516

I did some tests couple of weeks ago. My build is different than yours. I’m not really sure if it’s worth maxing out torment duration.

So far I only tested it on Matthias. Your druid can swap Stone Spirit for something else like Sun Spirit. It kinda works but I wouldn’t play it over any other dps class.

Quantify [qT]

Condi Rev Test

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Einlanzer.1627

Einlanzer.1627

Interesting data. I think that Condi Rev is one of those specs that’s easy to be decent while impossible to be great.

I have a funny feeling the next elite spec will be condi focused. But, who knows.

Condi Rev Test

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Sorin Noroku.5342

Sorin Noroku.5342

Sadly I don’t think Condi rev will see play unless they buff Torment damage up. However, doesn’t a condi mesmer apply more torment than a condi rev? I would love to see condi revs running more!

DEVS BUFF REV TORMENT DAMAGE! Even if it’s a trait change like (while in mallyx, torment does x2 damage)

Condi Rev Test

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

I did some tests couple of weeks ago. My build is different than yours. I’m not really sure if it’s worth maxing out torment duration.

So far I only tested it on Matthias. Your druid can swap Stone Spirit for something else like Sun Spirit. It kinda works but I wouldn’t play it over any other dps class.

You’re probably right regarding Torment duration. One of Condi Rev’s other weaknesses is that unlike a lot of condi setups, Rev has no trait-line or utility bar access to bonus condi damage, so I did consider giving up duration for more damage. (Of course, I was making the set for my Warrior, so I wasn’t playing around with too many different stat arrangements.) May also explain why you got more out of Devastation than I did (or I just screwed up).

I should have been more specific: For Druid buffs I used only Spotter, Glyph of Empowerment, and Grace of the Land x2 — no Spirits. I figured if I had used a Spirit and had a little more practice I could probably hit 20k. So, again, it’s not terrible, but it is inferior to the alternatives.