Const. Criticism: Dungeon rewards are IMBA

Const. Criticism: Dungeon rewards are IMBA

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Bredgen.6721

Bredgen.6721

Before I start, let me just say that Anet making dungeons actually reward gold is awesome. So in that respect, THANKS Anet. Now having said that, when they were putting in the patch to fix the rewards, they said that all dungeons would give between 1g-3g based on path difficulty and length, so why does almost every dungeon path give 1g? Why do some dungeons, which take twice as long as others and are harder, reward the same amount of gold as super easy fast paths?

Note: I don’t really go on these forums very often, so I don’t know if this has been discussed to death. I was pretty content with not saying anything, but when I heard that fractal 49 rewards only 1.5g or something, I figured I’d say something.

So to start, let’s look at current dungeon rewards.
To add to those, fractal 21-30 gives 1.2g, 31-40 gives 1.3g and I believe 41-50 gives 1.4 or 1.5g (please correct me if I’m wrong).
The rewards are pretty lame aren’t they?
Let me point out a few imbalances:
1. Why does doing Arah path 3, one of the supposed harder dungeons (due to mobs + lupi) reward the same amount of gold as AC paths 1/2/3, which are relatively easy.
2. Why does doing fractal 49, an endeavour that can take between 30 mins (with the fastest fractals, no wipes and perfect execution) to 1-2 hours reward the same amount as all AC paths, which can be done in 20 mins easily with a pug group?
3. Why does COF path 3, which is long and can be considered difficult, reward the same amount as COF path 1, which is done in 6-10mins with any pug group?
4. Why does SE path 2, which is much longer than SE paths 1/3 reward the same amount of gold kitten path 1/3?
Anyway, you get the picture.

So how to fix this? Well, you shouldn’t be asking that since the answer is obvious: change the dungeon rewards to actually reflect the dungeon difficulty and length. If this isn’t an easy fix, I don’t know what is.

AC
Path 1: This is easy, and not long. Final boss mechanic is simple. This should reward 1g.
Path 2: Again, not a very hard path. Final boss can be difficult for groups lacking the DPS and organization. Keep this at 1.5g.
Path 3: Easy and short. Should honestly be 1g.
CM
This is a dungeon I don’t run much since I simply don’t like it. With that being said, it’s not exactly difficult and should stay at 1g. Maybe path 2 can be considered for 1.5g, but probably not.
TA
This should stay the same and I’m glad Anet actually put 2g for a change on the Aether path. It is longer, than the other two paths afterall, so this is good.
SE
Like I said earlier, path 1 and 3 are short and easy, with path 1 being shorter. Path 2 is a lot longer than both of the paths and is a bit more difficult. Path 2 should be 1.5g, while the other 2 should stay the same at 1g.
COF
Path 1: Honestly should be 50s, that’s how simple this path is, but should be kept at 1g.
Path 2: It’s slightly more difficult and longer than path 1, but still quite easy, 1g.
Path 3: Longer and more difficult than both paths, upgrade this to 1.5g.
HOTW
Path 2 and 3 should get upgraded to 1.5g. They are longer and more annoying in general.
COE
I’m on the fence on this one. I think all the paths are relatively simple and easy, but don’t know what the community feels about this. They can be considered 1.5g apiece since they are longer than every other 1g path.
Arah
Path 1, 2 & 4: Stay the same.
Path 3: Go up to 2g.
Honestly, the fact that you gotta fight Lupi makes some people shake in their boots.

Fractals:
21-30 – Should be 1g (honestly, not even any instabilities here)
31-40 – Currently it’s like 1.3g. Why? 30s for braving instabilities, some more difficult than others. This should be like 2g or something.
41-50 – Again, higher agony damage, higher mob HP/damage and instabilities. Why only an extra 20s for doing this? This should be like 2.5g-3g.
51+ – I’d say keep these at 3g.

Like I said earlier. The current system is already infinitely better than spamming COF path 1 like before. But it also makes me question sometimes if Anet actually play their own game. If they don’t use optimal builds (which according to streams, they don’t), and then they run the longer paths, which are a lot longer without optimal builds, then how can they not notice that the current system isn’t based on length/difficulty of a path?

Am I being picky? Probably. Is this a huge issue? Not really, but I figured I’d just point it out.
Do you think I’m right? Great, let me know. Do you think I’m wrong? Also great, tell me why.
Sorry this was long, I had too much time on my hands at work, things are a bit slow at the moment.

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Posted by: TheKillerAngel.3596

TheKillerAngel.3596

Making SE 2 and CoF 3 give 1.5 gold isn’t going to encourage any more people to run them.

Think stacking and skipping trash is cheap?
Read: Playing to Win.
Guide: How to play a Mesmer in dungeons.

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Posted by: Bredgen.6721

Bredgen.6721

Making SE 2 and CoF 3 give 1.5 gold isn’t going to encourage any more people to run them.

You’re absolutely right. But at least if you actually do run them, you would get a bit more for the effort.
Edit: Maybe 2g would be more appropriate. So we have more options for 2g paths, other than arah p3 and TA Aetherpath. But they should be worth more than the other same dungeon paths.

(edited by Bredgen.6721)

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Posted by: Mesket.5728

Mesket.5728

I’m with you that fractals should scale a bit higher in gold above lvl 30 and 40… BUT the amount of rare items and mats dropped in fractals is also higher.

you still get a bit more reward after completing fractals than after completing AC..

That said, if reward over time is what you are looking for, then yes… Fractals is way unrewarding and doing Cof 1 and 2 in 15 mins followed by AC 1 and 3 and probably a HoTW in the middle will be the most rewarding “dungeon run” you can have… specially considering how easy those paths are.

Zerk is the average Joe build. Don’t pat yourself in the back too hard.

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Posted by: cranked.3812

cranked.3812

Yeah this was discussed to great length when the original change was made. People even broke it done path by path just like you did, but anyone who actually runs the paths daily already knows the rewards are out of whack based on length and difficulty.

Unfortunately, all your work of typing all this out won’t make a difference since it falls on deaf ears over at anet. Then again you can’t really call it deaf ears since anet doesn’t actually come to the dungeon forums, more like turning a blind eye?

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Posted by: Kain Francois.4328

Kain Francois.4328

I think ANET knows the rewards are unbalanced, and that a “fix” woud take only 5 minutes. However, they seem to believe it will have an impact on the economy. (Because buy more gems!!!)

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Posted by: cranked.3812

cranked.3812

I think ANET knows the rewards are unbalanced, and that a “fix” woud take only 5 minutes. However, they seem to believe it will have an impact on the economy. (Because buy more gems!!!)

In their defense, they don’t even have time to test the bi-weekly updates, where are they supposed to find that extra 5 minutes to properly (or at least attempt to) balance the rewards?

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Posted by: Bredgen.6721

Bredgen.6721

Yeah this was discussed to great length when the original change was made. People even broke it done path by path just like you did, but anyone who actually runs the paths daily already knows the rewards are out of whack based on length and difficulty.

Unfortunately, all your work of typing all this out won’t make a difference since it falls on deaf ears over at anet. Then again you can’t really call it deaf ears since anet doesn’t actually come to the dungeon forums, more like turning a blind eye?

I figured it would be discussed to death. Unfortunate that they turn a blind eye to it, it really is (read: should) be an easy fix. If they have to change the system around to change the gold value reward… well that wouldn’t be very good.

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Posted by: swiftpaw.6397

swiftpaw.6397

I am saddened.

I think, as stated above that one of the prime reasons A-Net will not be updating dungeon rewards is because giving gold to players (even for their time and work) is lessening the chance that they spend real money on gems in the cash shop.

Other reasons may include the fact that they are completely out of touch with the dungeon community and have exhibited disdain towards those who optimize runs.

Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|

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Posted by: cranked.3812

cranked.3812

I am saddened.

I think, as stated above that one of the prime reasons A-Net will not be updating dungeon rewards is because giving gold to players (even for their time and work) is lessening the chance that they spend real money on gems in the cash shop.

Other reasons may include the fact that they are completely out of touch with the dungeon community and have exhibited disdain towards those who optimize runs.

I think it’s your second reason. It’s obvious that they never post in this forum which means they probably don’t have anyone dedicated to actually working on dungeon content/design.

I would agree to some extent about the gems, but it’s not like we are asking them to up it to 10 gold/path. Simple balance like CoF 1 = 50s or less for that matter and bump some up a little to be actually in line with time/effort involved. As was said originally when this issue came up: It’s as if they literally just picked numbers out of a hat when choosing the rewards.

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Posted by: HELLruler.4820

HELLruler.4820

AC
P1: 1g
P2: 1.5g
P3: 1g

CM
P1: 1g
P2: 1.5g
P3: 1g

TA
Up: 1g
Forward: 1.5g
Aether: 2g

SE
P1: 1g
P2: 1.5g
P3: 1g

CoF
P1: 1g
P2: 1g
P3: 1.5g-2g

HotW
P1: 1g
P2: 1g-1.5g
P3: 1.5g

CoE
P1: 2g
P2: 2g
P3: 2g

Arah
P1: 3g
P2: 3g
P3: 2.5g
P4: 3g

That’s my list. Not going to include fractals, haven’t played with the new instabilities yet

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Posted by: robertul.3679

robertul.3679

Why is arah p3 considered easier than p2 is beyond me. The mechanics are more annoying (crusher, final boss). The skips are very easy though.

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Deadeyes. Technicians.

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Posted by: Nosoyelarty.7268

Nosoyelarty.7268

I am ready to do my HotW p2 and p3 daily for 1.5g!

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Not even for 2.5g…

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Posted by: Vargamonth.2047

Vargamonth.2047

In my opinion:

AC
P1 —> 75s
P2 —> 1.25g
P3 —> 75s
+ 25s at Kholer chest

CM
P1 —> 1g
P2 —> 1.5g
P3 —> 1g

TA
Up —> 1.25g
Forward —> 1.25g
Aetherpath —> 2g

SE
P1 —> 1g
P2 —> 2g
P3 —> 1.25g

CF
P1 —> 50s
P2 —> 75s
P3 —> 1.5g

HoTW
P1 —> 1g
P2 —> 1g
P3 —> 1g

CE
P1 —> 1g
P2 —> 1.25g
P3 —> 1.25g

Arah
P1 —> 2g + 50s from Korga
P2 —> 2g
P3 —> 1.5g
P4 —> 3g

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Posted by: imbalancedhero.3968

imbalancedhero.3968

the thing is that ac chests tend to give a lot of useless dusts as well as lvl 35 items so if you take that into account then the rewards are pretty balanced. Fractals on the other hand has a lot better chests as well as loot in general.

Also, AC is the first and thus the most accessible dungeon for casual players. Having it give a higher gold reward helps these players from being disadvantaged by gold inflation

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Posted by: Mochann.5298

Mochann.5298

You can’t compare dungeons to fractals, especially now that the rewards for Fractals have been revamped. You can get Pristine Fractal Tokens now on even the lowest level paths, which are an easy way to Ascended Gear. You can also pick up Ascended Weapons from fractal box drops.

Gold for Dungeons, Ascended Gear for Fractals. Makes sense to me. The gear you get from dungeons is basically only good for salvaging Luck.

As for the gold rewards for dungeons, their may be some imbalances, but you’re being way too picky. I only do the easy dungeon runs for the gold. That’s the usual AC1, AC3, COF1, COF2, and HOTW1. Don’t really other with the other paths as they tend to take longer, but that’s six GP their and I’m happy. If I am looking to make more gold or am farming certain dungeon tokens, I run some extra paths but otherwise I like to keep the dungeon running fast, and spend the rest of my time on something I Ike to do, like wvw.

#ELEtism on Eredon Terrace

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Posted by: Bredgen.6721

Bredgen.6721

You can’t compare dungeons to fractals, especially now that the rewards for Fractals have been revamped. You can get Pristine Fractal Tokens now on even the lowest level paths, which are an easy way to Ascended Gear. You can also pick up Ascended Weapons from fractal box drops.

Gold for Dungeons, Ascended Gear for Fractals. Makes sense to me. The gear you get from dungeons is basically only good for salvaging Luck.

As for the gold rewards for dungeons, their may be some imbalances, but you’re being way too picky. I only do the easy dungeon runs for the gold. That’s the usual AC1, AC3, COF1, COF2, and HOTW1. Don’t really other with the other paths as they tend to take longer, but that’s six GP their and I’m happy. If I am looking to make more gold or am farming certain dungeon tokens, I run some extra paths but otherwise I like to keep the dungeon running fast, and spend the rest of my time on something I Ike to do, like wvw.

I think you can still compare fractals to dungeons since all the ascended gear is RNG, making it the extra cherry on top and not a reward for completing the dungeon. A consistent reward is the gold value you get at the end, and that is definitely not on par with everything else. Doing a fractal 49 gives me 1.4g, while doing a 7 mins COF p1 gives me 1.26g… big discrepancy there.

As for me being picky. I really don’t think I am being picky here. I’m only being fair. It’s great that you only run the short dungeon paths to get an easy 5-6g. But what if someone runs the longer paths. Why should they get the short end of the stick? Making those give a bit more gold may give more incentive.
Also, you don’t like running dungeons, but others do. I wouldn’t mind spending time perfecting a longer path if the gold reward was good enough. As it stands, there is no point to do any but the short and easy paths.

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Posted by: robertul.3679

robertul.3679

Deadeyes. Technicians.

Dodging after 2s and stability is like top notch pro? In p2 after the first fail at the end mobs fight eachother.

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Posted by: swiftpaw.6397

swiftpaw.6397

The real question, why would path 3 be harder?

Length and difficulty are two different things, I just want to make that distinction as well.

Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|

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Posted by: deSade.9437

deSade.9437

Why do they never read the thread before posting.
/sigh

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Posted by: Infamous Darkness.3284

Infamous Darkness.3284

Why is arah p3 considered easier than p2 is beyond me. The mechanics are more annoying (crusher, final boss). The skips are very easy though.

well because the final bosses in both (as well as every other path of arah) are a complete joke, that being said path 2 bosses are agent belka , abomination, and alpahard (without counting final bosses or lupi). path 3 bosses are crusher, and mage crusher. so path three has one less boss than path 2 and alpahard>crusher, belka or abomination> mage crusher. (idk this is my opinion I always found path 3 to be both boring and easier).

Infamous Culverin(engi[Main]), one of every other class.
Karl Marx: “Go away! Last words are for fools who haven’t said enough!”

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Posted by: laharl.8435

laharl.8435

Deadeyes. Technicians.

Dodging after 2s and stability is like top notch pro? In p2 after the first fail at the end mobs fight eachother.

They aren’t fighting each other by time you get back there if you died. I’m talking about the more difficult section after the boat, not the easy part before the boat, although you can just use the boat and skip it anyway, but that takes longer yet. That run is more difficult than anything in p3, plus p2 is longer.