Corpse rushing - Shouldn't be possible.
I hate corpse rushing as well. But I do like not having long corpse runs.
Solution: Rez timers.
“Those who believe a thing cannot be done,
should stay out of the way of those doing it”
- Thomas Edison
should stay out of the way of those doing it”
- Thomas Edison
Solution = do your best not to die and try to stick to mechanics, also full armor repair costs just a tad under 1 gold so no, you wont be able to do that on 80.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
The most ridiculous thing about this is that its actually an incorporated feature. You are MEANT to do this.
Just another fail from this game as dungeons go.
They are so, so, so badly designed
I hate corpse rushing as well. But I do like not having long corpse runs.
Solution: Rez timers.
There we be no long corpse runs because the waypoints wouldn’t work.
Yeah, this seriously needs to be changed. I do not want to do dungeons because of it. It’s just not nearly as exciting or rewarding to play them like this. I don’t think your meant to do it, dungeons are supposed to be really hard. But, the ability to do it makes dungeons so much easier than they should be. The difference between hardcore or casual players being able to complete them. Which, Anet specifically said so many times that they wanted dungeons to be really hard and only possible when going hardcore at it.
http://www.pwnzerfaust.com/ – Dragonbrand
IMHO its meant to do this so that PUGS and the skilless can still do the content.
is it so important that the game has to make sure you dont do it the easy expensive way.
eh. maybe it is.
Seems to me you could just make a group rule about not using the way points.
cant do that in a pug really but you would not be able to do the content at all in pug without the way point zerg.
I’ve done AC, TA CM and most of CoF and the inquest one, story only.
Most of them were corpse rushable except TA for half the dungeon.
What I mean is simply spawning at a waypoint when you die because it takes longer to res than to walk back.
This shouldn’t be possible, it feels like some mechanics rely on this (lastboss of AC can one hit you, but spawning is instant).It makes dungeons a zerg with little coordination, while making them almost too hard.
Tone down some bosses and make waypoints locked while fighting bosses.
I agree with you. It’s a very bad decision and should be fixed ASAP.
Tank-heal-DD was replaced by die-rez-run back. I’m not liking it either, but I feel like it’s a necessary evil when you take into consideration how easy it is to die to overtuned mobs.
“Corpse run” all you want. It’s not a viable option because of repair costs.
Then again if you need to “corpse run” to even beat a dungeon you might want to reconsider your strategy and builds.
IT’S A SWORD. THEY’RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE.
“Corpse run” all you want. It’s not a viable option because of repair costs.
Then again if you need to “corpse run” to even beat a dungeon you might want to reconsider your strategy and builds.
repair costs is not even a problem, since each dungeon reward you with 26 silver so everyone can just corpse run all they want.it’s is not exciting or rewarding seeing people play like this.
repair costs is not even a problem, since each dungeon reward you with 26 silver so everyone can just corpse run all they want.it’s is not exciting or rewarding seeing people play like this.
Die 10 times and you have no profit. Die 11 times and you actually lose money.
IT’S A SWORD. THEY’RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE.
repair costs is not even a problem, since each dungeon reward you with 26 silver so everyone can just corpse run all they want.it’s is not exciting or rewarding seeing people play like this.
Die 10 times and you have no profit. Die 11 times and you actually lose money.
This, so much. If you’re corpse rushing a boss, there’s also a chance that you won’t be able to finish the dungeon. I suppose if you’re on the final boss and you’re corpse rushing, but when you’ve spent 2 hours on a dungeon (again, if you’re corpse running a dungeon, you’re not doing well) and you have a reward of 2s, you’ve lost a lot more than just gold. Just because the waypoint is there doesn’t mean its required to kill the boss. I know both times we killed the last guy on AC I think there was only one rez.
yeah you got to figure that if you are way point zerging… you are not going to win without them. fix your group.
use the way points to save you time when you wipe.
there are some classes that make for pretty good healers. at least good enough.
dont play a glass cannon. in the dungeon you are not a cannon. you are just glass.
get your gear up to snuff. that is not a grind. just buy it from the black lion. you can get a complete set of fine or masterwork for a few silver. a complete set of like armor looks sharp too. buy some sigils and runes. they dont have to match. +10 stats. try not to skimp on heal and toughness.
play defensive as tank. block and stun take health regen stuff.
tanks seem to make good medics as i can res someone while getting beat on.
res eachother.
my last run through as a warrior i was using mace/shield. thats a very defensive weapon set. i could negate enough damage that way to keep myself alive for quite a while getting the full attention of a boss or miniboss.
i had fun too. timing the blocks and stuns.
i did AC 2 or 3 times tonight in seperate pug story modes. beat the lovers with 4 people most of who were not uber skilled. made 4 levels.
1 of those times required only1 repair. best run i have done.
during one run one of the guys said “stop” and we talked a little about which mobs were important to hit first.
we got on the same page. that was a good run. had we worked together even closer… having a plan so that our builds worked together…
but to be clear… i dont like doing it either. but i think it has a purpose. The trick is not to have to use it.
Maybe they’ll add a HM and disable all waypoints and give a dam REWARD WORTH something… preferably something your class can equip, if u know what i’m talking about >.>
I hate it too, I wish rezing was handled a bit better. It’s hard to revive downed players (or defeated players) within boss fights. It’d be nice (and preferable) if the downed player was resistant to AoEs and able to “crawl out” of the fight.
Right now it looks like most people are content to just zerg their way through content — it’s the most often suggested tactic when a team is losing, “just run back!” and ultimately leads to groups disbanding towards the eighth or ninth death.
I do understand that “those groups are bad and need to l2p” but the real problem is the game doesn’t actively encourage that — instead it’s basically just setting a price on success and letting players decide whether or not it’s worth it.
With half the “we cleared it” people using graveyard rushing to get to the ends of dungeons and explorable modes, it’s bound to make it harder for developers to see what they’ve overtuned for difficulty. Or, if nothing’s overtuned, then they still need to eliminate graveyard rushing and find a way to ease players through the difficulty curve between world content and explorable mode dungeons. Right now its basically “Are you really pro from previous MMO experience?”
I whole-heartedly agree with the OP. I understand having waypoints for regular mobs to make the dungeon a little more forgiving on the learning curve. The dungeons would be much more enjoyable if the waypoints were disabled during boss fights and the encounters tuned accordingly. Yes, you CAN zerg down most of the dungeon bosses I’ve seen. But just throwing your toon’s body at the big meanie is not fun.
I am a tank at heart.
Sometimes I wonder what I’m doing here…
Sometimes I wonder what I’m doing here…
If people want to be morons and play this way, let them. It will have no bearing on any good player whatsoever, so long as you don’t group with those people any more. They will eventually get bored and leave, thinking this game is just a zerg game, leaving the good players to enjoy thier game without constant forums whiners about how dungeons are too hard.
(edited by Efaicia.3672)
It is amazing that people can simultaneously complain about a lack of reward WHILE spending an kitten on repairs by corpse rushing.
(edited by Moderator)
If people don’t want to corpse run then there are only a couple of solutions I can think of.
One is to currently keep it as it is allowing people to learn the encounter there and then over time.
Or the other would be to make the fights shorter but harder not allowing people who have died to re enter essentially making it a ‘get it right first time or the fight will reset’.
[EU]Desolation
~Charr Guardian~ – ~Norn Necromancer ~
~Charr Guardian~ – ~Norn Necromancer ~
If people don’t want to corpse run then there are only a couple of solutions I can think of.
One is to currently keep it as it is allowing people to learn the encounter there and then over time.
Or the other would be to make the fights shorter but harder not allowing people who have died to re enter essentially making it a ‘get it right first time or the fight will reset’.
Or they could, you know, NOT change the game on the whims of a notoriously finicky and impossible to please player base and make them learn to play properly in a coordinated group style. I wonder how many people who are complaining realize that THEY THEMSELVES have the ability to splash aoe HoT’s on people with their physical ranged ability when used together with another classes ability. and SHIELDS! they can cause those too! Or slows! Or ulnerability! Even loading themselves up with boons to make themselves uber powerful simply coordinating their own abilities with the others in their group.
If people don’t want to corpse run then there are only a couple of solutions I can think of.
One is to currently keep it as it is allowing people to learn the encounter there and then over time.
Or the other would be to make the fights shorter but harder not allowing people who have died to re enter essentially making it a ‘get it right first time or the fight will reset’.
Technically, there is one fight that you cant really zerg or it resets.
In AC Explore, after Lt. Koeller, on the Asura path, there is a fight where you have to protect 2 ecto collecters. Problem is, is that if the collectors die, the fight resets.
You cant zerg it either. If any 1 of your teammates dies, then you will be overwhelmed by the burrows, and they will kill the collectors.
This is one fight that you can not zerg. You have to get it right in one go, or its a do over
If people don’t want to corpse run then there are only a couple of solutions I can think of.
One is to currently keep it as it is allowing people to learn the encounter there and then over time.
Or the other would be to make the fights shorter but harder not allowing people who have died to re enter essentially making it a ‘get it right first time or the fight will reset’.
Or they could, you know, NOT change the game on the whims of a notoriously finicky and impossible to please player base and make them learn to play properly in a coordinated group style. I wonder how many people who are complaining realize that THEY THEMSELVES have the ability to splash aoe HoT’s on people with their physical ranged ability when used together with another classes ability. and SHIELDS! they can cause those too! Or slows! Or ulnerability! Even loading themselves up with boons to make themselves uber powerful simply coordinating their own abilities with the others in their group.
No need to take it out on me. I’m sure there are people who already coordinate but still get tired of the corpse running if other party members cause issues. If people don’t coordinate and complain then that’s their problem and they will have to learn.
Corpse Running has never been fun for some people and it takes away from the actual fight itself, which is what people should be concentrating on, rather than going ‘Oh I can just die and zerg the boss down over a period of time’.
If corpse running is an intended mechanic for bosses for Arenanet then those that hate it will have to live with it and it’ll become the accepted norm. If not then something needs to be sorted to accommodate and fix it so that coordination is properly intended.
[EU]Desolation
~Charr Guardian~ – ~Norn Necromancer ~
~Charr Guardian~ – ~Norn Necromancer ~
repair costs is not even a problem, since each dungeon reward you with 26 silver so everyone can just corpse run all they want.it’s is not exciting or rewarding seeing people play like this.
Die 10 times and you have no profit. Die 11 times and you actually lose money.
Die 12 times and no further death matters anymore since you’re butt-naked?
Honestly. I think they should make all waypoints contested as long as one member of the party is in combat. (or at least, “in combat with a boss”)
I know this would be troublesome with the blossoms in TA but I’m sure they’d find a solution for that.
This way they could place more Waypoints so the actual time of walking to get to places would be reduced but you couldn’t corpse rush anymore.
IMHO its meant to do this so that PUGS and the skilless can still do the content.
is it so important that the game has to make sure you dont do it the easy expensive way.
eh. maybe it is.
Seems to me you could just make a group rule about not using the way points.cant do that in a pug really but you would not be able to do the content at all in pug without the way point zerg.
This was posted on the blog today…and this is not nearly the first time they have said things just like this.
“For people who love structured and difficult content, we developed the explorable mode for our eight dungeons. A dungeon’s explorable mode has at least three different paths that players can choose to conquer—and each path is a five-character delve into tough content that we designed to push the limits of teamwork and communication.”
http://www.pwnzerfaust.com/ – Dragonbrand
repair costs is not even a problem, since each dungeon reward you with 26 silver so everyone can just corpse run all they want.it’s is not exciting or rewarding seeing people play like this.
Die 10 times and you have no profit. Die 11 times and you actually lose money.
Heh I wish I could repair for 2 silver…per death
IMHO its meant to do this so that PUGS and the skilless can still do the content.
is it so important that the game has to make sure you dont do it the easy expensive way.
eh. maybe it is.
Seems to me you could just make a group rule about not using the way points.cant do that in a pug really but you would not be able to do the content at all in pug without the way point zerg.
This was posted on the blog today…and this is not nearly the first time they have said things just like this.
“For people who love structured and difficult content, we developed the explorable mode for our eight dungeons. A dungeon’s explorable mode has at least three different paths that players can choose to conquer—and each path is a five-character delve into tough content that we designed to push the limits of teamwork and communication.”
so you are saying that because you can way point zerg that means the content is not what that post says? if so I disagree but it brings an idea i like.
a no death achievement counter for each dungeon.
No way point would be an easier one to achieve.
Wow does some of this kind of thing.
rather than make the dungeons harder add specific achievements within that dungeon.
repair costs is not even a problem, since each dungeon reward you with 26 silver so everyone can just corpse run all they want.it’s is not exciting or rewarding seeing people play like this.
Die 10 times and you have no profit. Die 11 times and you actually lose money.
Heh I wish I could repair for 2 silver…per death
well you can if you are doing lower level dungeons can’t you? use armor more level appropriate?
IMHO its meant to do this so that PUGS and the skilless can still do the content.
is it so important that the game has to make sure you dont do it the easy expensive way.
eh. maybe it is.
Seems to me you could just make a group rule about not using the way points.cant do that in a pug really but you would not be able to do the content at all in pug without the way point zerg.
This was posted on the blog today…and this is not nearly the first time they have said things just like this.
“For people who love structured and difficult content, we developed the explorable mode for our eight dungeons. A dungeon’s explorable mode has at least three different paths that players can choose to conquer—and each path is a five-character delve into tough content that we designed to push the limits of teamwork and communication.”
so you are saying that because you can way point zerg that means the content is not what that post says? if so I disagree but it brings an idea i like.
a no death achievement counter for each dungeon.
No way point would be an easier one to achieve.Wow does some of this kind of thing.
rather than make the dungeons harder add specific achievements within that dungeon.
Corpse rushing makes the dungeons sooooo much easier than they should be per the blog post. It’s the difference between using strategy and teamwork and mindlessly zerging with whatever build you feel like. Just tossing an achievement in there would be kind of annoying. Firstly, you should be dying and a lot. But if you keep thinking and trying new things you may eventually pull through. That’s called a challenge. The rewards would also feel much more worth it than just an achievement.
http://www.pwnzerfaust.com/ – Dragonbrand
IMHO its meant to do this so that PUGS and the skilless can still do the content.
is it so important that the game has to make sure you dont do it the easy expensive way.
eh. maybe it is.
Seems to me you could just make a group rule about not using the way points.cant do that in a pug really but you would not be able to do the content at all in pug without the way point zerg.
This was posted on the blog today…and this is not nearly the first time they have said things just like this.
“For people who love structured and difficult content, we developed the explorable mode for our eight dungeons. A dungeon’s explorable mode has at least three different paths that players can choose to conquer—and each path is a five-character delve into tough content that we designed to push the limits of teamwork and communication.”
so you are saying that because you can way point zerg that means the content is not what that post says? if so I disagree but it brings an idea i like.
a no death achievement counter for each dungeon.
No way point would be an easier one to achieve.Wow does some of this kind of thing.
rather than make the dungeons harder add specific achievements within that dungeon.Corpse rushing makes the dungeons sooooo much easier than they should be per the blog post. It’s the difference between using strategy and teamwork and mindlessly zerging with whatever build you feel like. Just tossing an achievement in there would be kind of annoying. Firstly, you should be dying and a lot. But if you keep thinking and trying new things you may eventually pull through. That’s called a challenge. The rewards would also feel much more worth it than just an achievement.
Sure but YOU do not want to corpse rush. so why do you do it.
i assume you are not doing PUGs so why does your group do it.
That can not feel like a satisfying win for you. It doesnt to me. Do you really need the game to force you not to use the waypoint?
Do you just want the content barred to other people who do not have a good group?
IMHO its meant to do this so that PUGS and the skilless can still do the content.
is it so important that the game has to make sure you dont do it the easy expensive way.
eh. maybe it is.
Seems to me you could just make a group rule about not using the way points.cant do that in a pug really but you would not be able to do the content at all in pug without the way point zerg.
This was posted on the blog today…and this is not nearly the first time they have said things just like this.
“For people who love structured and difficult content, we developed the explorable mode for our eight dungeons. A dungeon’s explorable mode has at least three different paths that players can choose to conquer—and each path is a five-character delve into tough content that we designed to push the limits of teamwork and communication.”
so you are saying that because you can way point zerg that means the content is not what that post says? if so I disagree but it brings an idea i like.
a no death achievement counter for each dungeon.
No way point would be an easier one to achieve.Wow does some of this kind of thing.
rather than make the dungeons harder add specific achievements within that dungeon.Corpse rushing makes the dungeons sooooo much easier than they should be per the blog post. It’s the difference between using strategy and teamwork and mindlessly zerging with whatever build you feel like. Just tossing an achievement in there would be kind of annoying. Firstly, you should be dying and a lot. But if you keep thinking and trying new things you may eventually pull through. That’s called a challenge. The rewards would also feel much more worth it than just an achievement.
Sure but YOU do not want to corpse rush. so why do you do it.
i assume you are not doing PUGs so why does your group do it.That can not feel like a satisfying win for you. It doesnt to me. Do you really need the game to force you not to use the waypoint?
Do you just want the content barred to other people who do not have a good group?
Basically, I like success more than I dislike zerging. And why not? I’m not going to be some stubbornkitten when it’s right there in my face. I do want the dungeon rewards to be harder to obtain. But as it is, it’s not that hard. Anyone can just spend time in dungeons and work up the tokens and whatever else pretty easily. While the people I usually do dungeons with completely agree. They zerg anyways. Also, doing it multiple times is more or less experimenting the mechanic so I can use my actual experience as a base for my argument. “Don’t knock it til’ you try it.”
If you must ask, yes the dungeons would be much more fun and interesting if they were harder for everyone. Would legendary weapons be as fun if they were handed out to everyone? Nope, and that’s the point of progression in MMO’s. It’s a sense of reward and accomplishment. Just saying something like “Yeah, I did that without using WP’s” isn’t the same as being able to show it.
http://www.pwnzerfaust.com/ – Dragonbrand
Amen. It makes it feel like a joke, honestly.
JonnyBigBoss – 80 Engineer
Fort Aspenwood
The Ancient Order [TAO]
Fort Aspenwood
The Ancient Order [TAO]
Solution = do your best not to die and try to stick to mechanics, also full armor repair costs just a tad under 1 gold so no, you wont be able to do that on 80.
You have to keep a few of those repair canisters handy, otherwise you will go broke fairly quickly.
In some weird way this whole waypoint fiasco makes me long for the days of actually having to restart UW, FoW etc whenever you completely failed. Allowing people to do this promotes bad play, since no one needs to bother with having proper builds and such.
In some cases you can even “exploit” waypoints to make the dungeon run much, much faster. CoF with Magg’s route would be my best example.
Very Good Detectives [VGD]
Devonas Rest 4 lyfe
Devonas Rest 4 lyfe
IMHO its meant to do this so that PUGS and the skilless can still do the content.
is it so important that the game has to make sure you dont do it the easy expensive way.
eh. maybe it is.
Seems to me you could just make a group rule about not using the way points.cant do that in a pug really but you would not be able to do the content at all in pug without the way point zerg.
This was posted on the blog today…and this is not nearly the first time they have said things just like this.
“For people who love structured and difficult content, we developed the explorable mode for our eight dungeons. A dungeon’s explorable mode has at least three different paths that players can choose to conquer—and each path is a five-character delve into tough content that we designed to push the limits of teamwork and communication.”
so you are saying that because you can way point zerg that means the content is not what that post says? if so I disagree but it brings an idea i like.
a no death achievement counter for each dungeon.
No way point would be an easier one to achieve.Wow does some of this kind of thing.
rather than make the dungeons harder add specific achievements within that dungeon.Corpse rushing makes the dungeons sooooo much easier than they should be per the blog post. It’s the difference between using strategy and teamwork and mindlessly zerging with whatever build you feel like. Just tossing an achievement in there would be kind of annoying. Firstly, you should be dying and a lot. But if you keep thinking and trying new things you may eventually pull through. That’s called a challenge. The rewards would also feel much more worth it than just an achievement.
Sure but YOU do not want to corpse rush. so why do you do it.
i assume you are not doing PUGs so why does your group do it.That can not feel like a satisfying win for you. It doesnt to me. Do you really need the game to force you not to use the waypoint?
Do you just want the content barred to other people who do not have a good group?Basically, I like success more than I dislike zerging. And why not? I’m not going to be some stubbornkitten when it’s right there in my face. I do want the dungeon rewards to be harder to obtain. But as it is, it’s not that hard. Anyone can just spend time in dungeons and work up the tokens and whatever else pretty easily. While the people I usually do dungeons with completely agree. They zerg anyways. Also, doing it multiple times is more or less experimenting the mechanic so I can use my actual experience as a base for my argument. “Don’t knock it til’ you try it.”
If you must ask, yes the dungeons would be much more fun and interesting if they were harder for everyone. Would legendary weapons be as fun if they were handed out to everyone? Nope, and that’s the point of progression in MMO’s. It’s a sense of reward and accomplishment. Just saying something like “Yeah, I did that without using WP’s” isn’t the same as being able to show it.
Well that really is your problem not the games problem. Sorry but that is the fact. Still… my guy feeling is that waypoints will change because perhaps enough people have the same problem.
I feel having an achievment for this would be good both for not using a waypoint for res and for not dying.
Actually i would like to see a set of daily/monthly achievements for dungeons.
I dont think its is worthwhile to restrict the dungeon content. For the legendary weapons and such players can still experience the content even if they themselves havent done it.