Guild Wars 2

Jiikenchop.8376:

Bad experience with the TS; Phira & Shadow Espada.

I joined a casual pug cof1 farm using my alt zerk warrior farmer. We are doing okayish 7-8mins run. 2 members left after an hour; Phira & SE joined afterwards. This Phira is a total elitist prick. Whole run bossing around how the 3 zerk warriors are not doing it perfectly. Missing one FGJ (3stacks might) and he start to make a fuss for a full two minutes. After done kittening, he and SE both leave the group half way.

People may need to stop asking for GS warriors in gw2lfg, but more importantly, people certainly need to leave their elitist attitude behind if they are going to join pug from gw2lfg.

I consider myself to be a pretty serious player and I’ve been called elitist on several occasions, mostly when I’m asking people to play more efficiently and sometimes in a less than cordial tone. I can be a total prick to some people and I wish i wasn’t but I really have way more fun when things run smoothly and I tend to push the limits of what people will take when I’m explaining what I think they did wrong. That being said, I have run with phira and my experience was pretty much the same as he mentioned. By far the most arrogant, elitist player I’ve ever played with. I’ve played mmo’s with many extremely talented players, some as humble as they come and some are arrogant beyond belief. I have never seen someone treat people so disrespectfully for the amount that they’ve proven themselves. It is no surprise that cof path 1 isn’t difficult and really any idiot can do speed runs, so to have this guy who hasn’t stood out as an exceptional player in any way talk as if he invented cof farming is just ridiculous. I’m not sure there is anything more condescending than for someone you’ve never met talk as if their methods are the word of god and you’re a complete fool for not putting his words in scripture. This may be a slight over exaggeration but I remember quite well the impression this player left on me.

jul.7602:

VanityValentine.6203:

jul.7602:

The video features 3 thieves, a warrior and a mesmer that has been edited to give the illusion of speed. Show us your full start to finish run with no edits and no warriors and maybe so we can carefully reevaluate your run. Otherwise this is meaningless and a garbage run.

I would actually love to see you Run, how much u hit for, and how fast u can kill both boss.

If I get some good video recording equipment I will gladly show off a proper run. In fact if I find a way to record it, I will wager a 50 gold prize. My team vs yours. However there will be some rules.

1)4 thieves 1mesmer vs 4 warriors, 1 mesmer. No exceptions.

2)Record from the dungeon initiation and to the death of the final boss.

3) No black lion boosts +5% damage ect.

-Final. Take this lightly, with college exams and a busy schedule it could take me a while to find some people and with proper recording.

1. You missed the whole point of this thread.
2. The reason for the 1 warrior in the group was to drop the dps banner… that is all.
3. Read up, you missed many good points that make your senseless rage post from before null and void
4. The point of this thread was to say thieves, when subjected to the same buffs as everyone else, deal the most single target damage in the game. Don’t believe me? Check and see how fast the driver AND effigy went down in that same run.
5. If you REALLY wanted it to be about thieves vs warriors, why did you make the no exceptions have a mesmer in the group…

Syn Sity.5826:

Thieves CAN be just as good in cof as warriors, but it doesn’t mean they are. Playing a thief is much less forgiving. A bad warrior will go down occasionally and deal less dps than a good one, a bad thief will die frequently.

In cof you shouldn’t be dying to begin with regardless of what class you are. The only trash you will fight is the initial turrets, and at the speed these thieves are killing going down is hardly a concern. Just whip out pistolwhip for that part and you’ll be evading a lot of damage. You will be slower than a warrior there, but the boss kills are faster with a 2x thief combo.

Not that anyone was doubting thieves are good. After guardians and warriors they sit alongside mesmer as the next class you’d bring to a non-cof group.

Warrior and thief group damage widly outperform everyone else’s — it’s a shame really.

I don’t think thieves and warrior out damage everyone else. Elementalist probably contribute more overall because they summon weapons which gives the mesmer the ability to crit 11k on the 1 chain. Take a look. Even with a guardian, we still have decent kill time with elementalist carrying our damage (not saying guardians aren’t viable but I was the guardian here and I was on the wrong build).

Once again, I did not record these videos and is from a GS Warrior perspective when we followed the GS warrior trend but started to break the rules a bit to figure out better team comps for damage.

And for the rest calling names (elitist elitist!), please refrain from such immature behavior.

Unfortunately my necro auto will never be as good. Buff necro damage!

Thor ele works well in cof because there’s little need for mobility or defense, but thor ele does not work very well, say, in fractal 48+. I meant more outdamaging others in terms of the practical application of their damage.

I still like threads like these because it’s nice to see people showcasing how they figure out what builds work for them in a demonstrably efficient manner.

I really wonder for example if engineers would see similar output as well — they seem to have the potential, and their sustained aoe is pretty crazy.

Actually, I’ve tested necro’s dmg. (higher than Warrior axe 1 chain damage which was thought to be the highest) You go into Lich Form state and they have a god amazing 1 spam damage. Unfortunately, their bugged in lower level dungeons. The damage scales down almost 2x than what it should be for some reason. If it weren’t for the bug, I’d want a Necromancer team. I’ve reported the bug but still no fixes.

I’m really looking into rangers too. We just had a nice run with 3 Warrior, 1 Ranger, 1 Mez and went about almost as fast as our team thief build (6-7 second slave driver kill time). Frost Spirit is really helpful as it gives +10% dmg 35% of the time and the pet receives all of our might stacks, fury, and quickness buffs. 1 More ranger probably could have possibly lowered the killed time a bit more. Unfortunately, nobody was able to record. We all have crap CPU specs.

Nonetheless, most classes are viable for CoF p1 farm and the whole 4x GS Warrior concept has to go.

Edit; Oh I just noticed LOL. I accept almost all classes for CoF farm whereas others accept only GS warriors.. And not to mention I’m against the 4x GS Warrior 1 mesmer meta and even went out to make this thread to try to dissolve that elitism… Makes me wonder who’s actually the elitists here…

Phira.3970:

Edit; Oh I just noticed. I accept almost all classes for CoF farm whereas others accept only GS warriors.. Makes me wonder whos actually the elitists here…

you don’t mind because you are in a premade. For pug it is a whole other story.

Try it on your own with a mesmer. Do a few warrior only group and a few any class group.

There just needs to be “how to play this class for cof” guides which I want to make but I do not have lvl 80 ele, ranger, etc… And a big problem is that I can’t record videos to prove they work because of my crap cpu specs (which is why all the videos I’ve posted were recorded by other people). And an eeven bigger problem is the current 4x GS Warrior meta elitism which prevents that (which is why I’m trying to stick it up the GS Warrior’s —- with this thread).

jul.7602:

VanityValentine.6203:

jul.7602:

The video features 3 thieves, a warrior and a mesmer that has been edited to give the illusion of speed. Show us your full start to finish run with no edits and no warriors and maybe so we can carefully reevaluate your run. Otherwise this is meaningless and a garbage run.

I would actually love to see you Run, how much u hit for, and how fast u can kill both boss.

If I get some good video recording equipment I will gladly show off a proper run. In fact if I find a way to record it, I will wager a 50 gold prize. My team vs yours. However there will be some rules.

1)4 thieves 1mesmer vs 4 warriors, 1 mesmer. No exceptions.

2)Record from the dungeon initiation and to the death of the final boss.

3) No black lion boosts +5% damage ect.

-Final. Take this lightly, with college exams and a busy schedule it could take me a while to find some people and with proper recording.

Lol sooo ur giving rules now?
How about you show us ur “PROPER” run ur way from start till last boss dies.
and we will show u our.

You’re asking for something like taking a blood test 1 day before the boxing event. Hmmm don’t think that makes sense. Im a mesmer and I would like to see you beat top my Guild’s Effigy kill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoouSccStME
come back till then.

For the sake of gw2lfg community, i will endure being called immature by you. I am warning other players what to expect if they let you join their group, or worse, join your pre-made group. An elitist amongst elitists, who will make a fuss over any single mistake made by other players, and will not hesitate to grief the other players by rudely scolding and leaving group half way through the dungeon.

Please, for the greater good, Phira, stay with your pre-made group and do not join pug from gw2lfg. Or if you really really have to use gw2lfg, please show more respect towards your fellow gamers.

On topic, since your original post mention about gw2lfg, i will assume we are talking about pug run. In an average pug runs, zerk warrs will almost always do better than thief, simply because thief requires much more skill and is a very unforgiving class at that. This is just personal opinion from playing guard/mes/warr/thief regularly in cof.

VanityValentine.6203:

Therefore his/her group does more DPS.

Quite possible. But I personally don’t care about having the fastest Slaver Driver kill record. Since the difference between their slave drive kill and an average pug is 3-4 seconds, it isn’t highly likely to be the deciding factor in total dungeon speed run time. I reckon with our new warrior rotation for the gate we might do it about a single second slower or roughly the same.

But again, even in a dungeon as simple as cof1 there are 1000 little inefficiencies that can happen which add up to significant time by the end. So a total dungeon speed run means playing as perfect as possible from zone in until zone out, and that is what matters to me.

tl;dr: killing a boss 1.5 seconds faster is irrelevant if you do everything else 20 seconds slower.

2 legendaries and yet doing CoF p1 and yet clicking skills, oh lord.

“Quite possible. But I personally don’t care about having the fastest Slaver Driver kill record. Since the difference between their slave drive kill and an average pug is 3-4 seconds, it isn’t highly likely to be the deciding factor in total dungeon speed run time. I reckon with our new warrior rotation for the gate we might do it about a single second slower or roughly the same.

But again, even in a dungeon as simple as cof1 there are 1000 little inefficiencies that can happen which add up to significant time by the end. So a total dungeon speed run means playing as perfect as possible from zone in until zone out, and that is what matters to me.

tl;dr: killing a boss 1.5 seconds faster is irrelevant if you do everything else 20 seconds slower."

Please claim which part your Warrior team actually does quicker.

1) pulling Ferrah meaning you get her to follow you before you choose path to be able to skip the dialogue faster

2) pulling charrs to turret and aoe’ing charr and turret down

3) killing Slave Driver

4) Running to acolytes to trigger acolytes faster

5) Speed killing acolytes

6) Boulders

7) gating

8) last boss

Won’t be a problem for you to post a faster video then. I await it with baited breath.

Nikaido.3457:

I’ve seen good thieves players. They’re just so few in numbers

Because most of them have switched to guard/war for pugs, and/or stick to their own premades, and shelf the thievery for wvw/pvp

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Won’t be a problem for you to post a faster video then. I await it with baited breath.

They did in matter of boss kills. What’s the point of asking for a full run video if you want to compare with one before quickness nerf? Who should actually post an updated video using 4 GS warriors and 1 mesmer to prove your point is you.

Also, what’s with the “Ah I don’t care if my slave driver kill is 1.5 seconds slower” if it’s a speedrun? Aren’t you aiming for fastest time possible? Where else would you do it faster than a normal pug group?

The biggest problem with most people forming CoF speed run groups is that they seem to miss the point. If you’re looking to clear CoF as efficiently as possible, then yes, min/maxing DPS for faster clears is important. However, time and time again, I see the focus put only on this aspect when so many other things slow down groups much more:
- People coming with full bags or not being able to manage their bag space.
- People taking afks between or during runs
- People switching characters on the end boss to get tokens on an alt
- People dropping group because the class composition doesn’t meet exactly what they want
- People dropping group after just 1 or 2 runs when the rest of the group intends to do more

If you’re really so concerned with having fast runs, you will always do better to have a list of friends that you have run with to contact when making groups.

Getting bent out of shape or spending a ton of time group hopping just because you don’t want a group that has even 1 player of a different profession really makes no sense. I think the OP in this thread confirms that.

What’s the point of posting full vid? He showed the important parts already. Only things would maybe be the build for thief or something. If you start splitting hairs you might as well factor in thief’s speed buff while stealth when moving from place to place.

“The biggest problem with most people forming CoF speed run groups is that they seem to miss the point. If you’re looking to clear CoF as efficiently as possible, then yes, min/maxing DPS for faster clears is important. However, time and time again, I see the focus put only on this aspect when so many other things slow down groups much more:
- People coming with full bags or not being able to manage their bag space.
- People taking afks between or during runs
- People switching characters on the end boss to get tokens on an alt
- People dropping group because the class composition doesn’t meet exactly what they want
- People dropping group after just 1 or 2 runs when the rest of the group intends to do more

If you’re really so concerned with having fast runs, you will always do better to have a list of friends that you have run with to contact when making groups.

Getting bent out of shape or spending a ton of time group hopping just because you don’t want a group that has even 1 player of a different profession really makes no sense. I think the OP in this thread confirms that."

My response 2 ^: You are looking at short term CoFing. If your going for CoF for just 3,4 or 5 rounds, you’re better off doing it with a random pug team.

But, if you do this hours on end (let’s say 5 hours), the difference between a couple of minutes saved (let’s say 2 minutes [8 minute runs vs. 6 minute]) due to proper set up, you can fit in 50 runs (6 minute runs) vs. 37 runs (8 minute runs). That’s a difference I am glad to pay for for finding the right team.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Won’t be a problem for you to post a faster video then. I await it with baited breath.

Okay, this is getting old. Let me be frank. You’re in denial. Seriously, just swallow your pride. The video I’ve initially posted features all parts of where we did every aspect of CoF faster than you guys. Sure, the person who recorded edited out boulders (Should that even matter?) OR the acolyte part was edited so we didn’t have to keep the audience waiting in suspense for the acolyte to spawn.

Strife’s video doesn’t show anything other than that his team has enough coordination to make up for the slow speed of Warriors dragging the team down at boss kills, acolyte kills, gate time kill speed, etc…

Rather than asking me to prove that thieves are more optimal than stacking Warriors in CoF (of which I’ve already proved), you must prove is that the parts we edited out can be better achieved from a Warrior standpoint.

You must prove that the time difference makes enough of a difference that’d you be able to beat our time. But of course, this would be difficult for you because you must prove that the Warriors do better than thieves in speed running the boulders and pulling Ferrah (which class here, for the most part, wouldn’t matter).

Oh WAIT, we do have 1 support warrior. SO even if you are able to prove that Warriors are indeed better for pulling Ferrah or doing boulders, you then must prove that that our Longbow + Axe/Mace Warrior cannot just simply swap to a Great Sword temporarily to do Boulders or to pull Ferrah.

I would say being able to prove such will require a glitch in the realm of logic and sense, which you have, over and over, cited, in defense of your silly pride. Asking for me to post a video, which has already proven its worth, is just conceding yourself to these points you still haven’t proved. SO now, I await your proof with baited breath.

I wanna c who does more DPS
It looks to me Phieras group does
^_^

kokiman.2364:

2 legendaries and yet doing CoF p1 and yet clicking skills, oh lord.

Couldnt understand what he/she was saying. Its okay

randomfightfan.4091:

jul.7602:

VanityValentine.6203:

jul.7602:

The video features 3 thieves, a warrior and a mesmer that has been edited to give the illusion of speed. Show us your full start to finish run with no edits and no warriors and maybe so we can carefully reevaluate your run. Otherwise this is meaningless and a garbage run.

I would actually love to see you Run, how much u hit for, and how fast u can kill both boss.

If I get some good video recording equipment I will gladly show off a proper run. In fact if I find a way to record it, I will wager a 50 gold prize. My team vs yours. However there will be some rules.

1)4 thieves 1mesmer vs 4 warriors, 1 mesmer. No exceptions.

2)Record from the dungeon initiation and to the death of the final boss.

3) No black lion boosts +5% damage ect.

-Final. Take this lightly, with college exams and a busy schedule it could take me a while to find some people and with proper recording.

1. You missed the whole point of this thread.
2. The reason for the 1 warrior in the group was to drop the dps banner… that is all.
3. Read up, you missed many good points that make your senseless rage post from before null and void
4. The point of this thread was to say thieves, when subjected to the same buffs as everyone else, deal the most single target damage in the game. Don’t believe me? Check and see how fast the driver AND effigy went down in that same run.
5. If you REALLY wanted it to be about thieves vs warriors, why did you make the no exceptions have a mesmer in the group…

This thread hardly has anything to do with the viability of thieves in CoF dungeon. That has already been accepted and discussing it further is irrelevant. Phira is clearly saying that thieves are superior to warriors in CoF p1. Reread his posts if you don’t believe me.

If he Phira was just expressing his oppinion the most efficient class in CoF p1 everything would be fine and this thread would be dead by now.

Instead he is foolishly wandering into a community of CoF farmers and boasting that thieves are far faster than warriors and slapping together an edited video that doesn’t even match what he is saying and is using that as evidence. He is insulting the intelligence of people who have farmed Cof as early as the alpha. We know what we’re doing and why. There is a reason 4 warriors, 1 mesmer has been the meta since release. If he wants change, he need to be professional and prove his idea.

The only way I see this possible is if he approaches this methodically and logically. He needs make a hypothesis that is precise and testable to eastablish what he’s trying to prove. Support his theory with an unedited video of his CoF P1 run. I’ll make my own video and we’ll compare and go from there.

I’ve already proven it. I even showed the numbers. Hmm 6 second kill vs 10 second kill. 6 > 10? Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. And I even showed that Thieves do other aspects besides boss killing more efficiently because that’s all they could argue with.

I’ve been arguing in the realm of logic and fact. You guys, on the other hand, have been arguing from the realm of phat pride (zomg we’;re still faster cuz [random comment] and you are [name calling]; on the other hand, we are the elites that “intelligently” formed the genius 4x Warrior 1x Mesmer team). Okay there.. slow down!

But okay okay. You guys can go ahead and express your opinions, and I’ll continue to express my facts.

Random is still right..and ur still missing the point lol
Having 25 might n vul is a must.
Who do u think lands more dmg if both warrior and thief has 25 might/25vul?
And phira is tryna say that other group/proffesion setup can kill as fast or even better than
4 GS war/1 mes.
Dubt that?

jul.7602:

This thread hardly has anything to do with the viability of thieves in CoF dungeon. That has already been accepted and discussing it further is irrelevant. Phira is clearly saying that thieves are superior to warriors in CoF p1. Reread his posts if you don’t believe me.

If he Phira was just expressing his oppinion the most efficient class in CoF p1 everything would be fine and this thread would be dead by now.

Instead he is foolishly wandering into a community of CoF farmers and boasting that thieves are far faster than warriors and slapping together an edited video that doesn’t even match what he is saying and is using that as evidence. He is insulting the intelligence of people who have farmed Cof as early as the alpha. We know what we’re doing and why. There is a reason 4 warriors, 1 mesmer has been the meta since release. If he wants change, he need to be professional and prove his idea.

The only way I see this possible is if he approaches this methodically and logically. He needs make a hypothesis that is precise and testable to eastablish what he’s trying to prove. Support his theory with an unedited video of his CoF P1 run. I’ll make my own video and we’ll compare and go from there.

(S)He did prove that thieves are the fastest and most efficient at cof farming… watch the video and read the comments please if you still don’t believe him. The reason why warrior is the current meta is because it’s a lot easier to speed farm cof with warriors than it is with thieves and not much slower. Another big thing about thieves and the acolytes is that they use steal to kill an aco and the timing for steal being off cd and the aco resing is nearly the exact same. Thief can stealth in, wait in the spot for the aco, kill them, then escape. Warrior needs to struggle through annoying mobs before hopefully getting to the acos as they are spawning. So, if anything, thieves do that better than warriors.

Everything else that was edited in the video wouldn’t affect a single thing. As explained before, all of your arguments have already been proven wrong so I don’t know why you’re still insisting that good warriors are better/faster than good thieves at cof farm because that is just plain wrong. If you were to say bad warriors are better/faster than bad thieves then no one would disagree.

Lastly, the op did approach this methodically and logically, he posted all the substance of the run with only removing the filler of such things like pulling ferah, running the bridge, and the boulders. None of those things are class related but since they all revolve around movement, thief would win in those categories… not even mentioning that on the boulders, 3 thieves could shadowstep past all the boulders and insta complete the puzzle. Not necessary since they had a mesmer/super easy to run past, but still it’s an option.

Lastly, speaking of insulting intelligence, the only thing that’s insulting is if someone is intentionally being ignorant and close minded that they refuse to accept the blatant proof shown in front of you. If you believe the video was fast forwarded or something I can tell you that’s not true since it still has its original audio. When a video is fast forwarded, it either loses all of the original audio or it gets distorted. None of those happened here.

The fact is thieves can kill the bosses faster than warriors (especially if it’s 3 thieves with 1 warrior dropping the dps banners and giving fire fields to stack might). Warriors can successfully CoF farm a LOT easier than thieves though since they are more naturally tanky and don’t need to worry about much more than shouting and hundred blades-ing. The time you save with thieves over warrior isn’t much but in the argument of which is faster, thieves win.

Lastly, everyone knows that every class is viable in every dungeon but the fact remains that there are countless annoying LFG posts with players going zerk war only ping gear or kick blah blah blah. Usually in all caps. The other funny part is that the 5th is always a mesmer and it doesn’t matter their gear since they are just Time Warp kittens. They can be in all lvl 1 whites as long as they drop the time warp on the bosses and portal past the boulders.

tldr~thief=harder but faster, warrior=easier, safer, and still fast but not as fast

I wonder what would do more pure dps against a target with infinite hp though. Assuming something was brought in purely for testing purposes. A ppc grenade p/p engi or a thief/warrior. I say engi b/c they can single handedly bring in EVERY damaging condition on the target while landing 3 bombs at a time that each inflict vuln with near guaranteed chance to inflict burn and bleed. 1 Engi CAN give 25 stacks of vuln and bleed on 1 target near indefinitely if they are in melee range. They are def slower for killing things like the slave driver since it takes a while to build up those conditions and against bosses like lupi, the conditions get cleansed way to fast and easy.

As I said. Your video is not sufficient proof. If you trying to support your claim that a thief group completes a run faster than a warrior you obviously need to show a full run with only 4 thieves and 1 mesmer and compare with a group of a recent run of a premade team of 4 warriors 1 mesmer.

Your video in unrealistic and ommits key sections of the run. You cannot get your point across without comparing it parallelly to a warrrior group.

Obviously still does not get the point lol…..Its not that harddd lol omg

I can’t express this any simpler. Bob claims he runs a faster mile than Joe, a well known olympic gold medalist. Joe disagrees. Bob records a video of himself running a 3 minute mile. However he only shows the two parts where he sprinted ommiting the rest of the video. When Bob gets home, he opens Internet Explorer, Youtube and searches 2400m olympic and selects the 5th one down thats a month old. It’s full a full recording but is uncertain who was running or whether or not he is was trying to run a fast time. Regardless Bob goes to an online forum and posts the 2 videos together and explains how he clearly runs a faster mile than Joe.

jul.7602:

Your video in unrealistic and ommits key sections of the run.

No, it doesn’t. It omits the “filler” portions of the run and focuses on those sections in which completion time can be most strongly influenced by team composition and player skill.

I mean – the omitted sections could show the team repeatedly standing around waiting for cooldowns (e.g. for Battle Standard and Portal) but there’s no reason to suspect that they did so. They killed the Acolytes without relying on banner buffs (so no need to wait for those cooldowns) and the Effigy’s lifespan was so short that it used its Shockwave attack only once (hence, no need for the Mesmer to juggle utility slots in order to prepare Feedback).

Advert Paperer.7059:

jul.7602:

Your video in unrealistic and ommits key sections of the run.

No, it doesn’t. It omits the “filler” portions of the run and focuses on those sections in which completion time can be most strongly influenced by team composition and player skill.

I mean – the omitted sections could show the team repeatedly standing around waiting for cooldowns (e.g. for Battle Standard and Portal) but there’s no reason to suspect that they did so. They killed the Acolytes without relying on banner buffs (so no need to wait for those cooldowns) and the Effigy’s lifespan was so short that it used its Shockwave attack only once (hence, no need for the Mesmer to juggle utility slots in order to prepare Feedback).

These “filler” portions are more important than you think. Regardless of how it plays it out, he has to be consistent. Just like a thorough scientific investigation or any credible high level education, you must provide a sample of raw evidence. There is no exception. If you try avoid or tailor it to your advatange, you instantly lose credibility.

frankly, jul, the fact that you have not shown us any video evidence at all, and that phira has shown not just 1, but 3, albeit edited, videos lends more credence to his argument. and his party only works for a coordinated group; a pug would get torn to shreds if they don’t know what to do. i’ve played with phira before, and while i think he may be an elitist jerk, he does know what he is talking about, and props to him for coming in and attempting to break meta. i, and hopefully others will realize this as well, cannot take you at just your word: make a video showcasing a 4 warr/1 mesmer run is in fact, faster than a 3 thief/1 warr/1 mesmer run.

ArashiKai.2496:

frankly, jul, the fact that you have not shown us any video evidence at all, and that phira has shown not just 1, but 3, albeit edited, videos lends more credence to his argument. and his party only works for a coordinated group; a pug would get torn to shreds if they don’t know what to do. i’ve played with phira before, and while i think he may be an elitist jerk, he does know what he is talking about, and props to him for coming in and attempting to break meta. i, and hopefully others will realize this as well, cannot take you at just your word: make a video showcasing a 4 warr/1 mesmer run is in fact, faster than a 3 thief/1 warr/1 mesmer run.

This discussion is similiar to a court case. Phira as the plaintiff claiming that thieves are quicker than warriors. The defendant as usuall, does not need any evidence to debunk the accusation because unless sufficicent proof if given, the plaintiff’s case will fail.

This even applies to all high level thinking (especially science), initiator must provide evidence that is accurate and reliable.

jul.7602:

ArashiKai.2496:

frankly, jul, the fact that you have not shown us any video evidence at all, and that phira has shown not just 1, but 3, albeit edited, videos lends more credence to his argument. and his party only works for a coordinated group; a pug would get torn to shreds if they don’t know what to do. i’ve played with phira before, and while i think he may be an elitist jerk, he does know what he is talking about, and props to him for coming in and attempting to break meta. i, and hopefully others will realize this as well, cannot take you at just your word: make a video showcasing a 4 warr/1 mesmer run is in fact, faster than a 3 thief/1 warr/1 mesmer run.

This discussion is similiar to a court case. Phira as the plaintiff claiming that thieves are quicker than warriors. The defendant as usuall, does not need any evidence to debunk the accusation because unless sufficicent proof if given, the plaintiff’s case will fail.

This even applies to all high level thinking (especially science), initiator must provide evidence that is accurate and reliable.

Why do you keep arguing this? Phira has already given you every bit of proof needed to prove that thieves have higher dps than warriors when they are subjected to the same buffs and the opponent has the same conditions. The videos posted prove that thief kills the bosses in CoF faster than warriors do and kills the acolytes and door faster than what warriors can do. What more do you want? You want to have a foot race, warrior vs thief across the bridge and from the gate to the effigy? Even if warriors did win (which they wouldn’t, shadowstep ftw), it would only save on 1-2s from each run. Those 1-2s were already more than made up for with the faster boss kills and the highly more efficient acolyte ritual thing.

The ONLY reason that still exists for you to keep your argument going is for the pure sake of trolling the thread. The evidence has been given and your only argument is “video edited out the filler (that wouldn’t change regardless of the classes used) so nothing in the video is legit therefor warriors win.”

As a matter of fact, I’m just going to have to assume all of your posts with like messages are pure troll posts. I appologize to anyone who has had to read my reactions to this poster. I shouldn’t have taken him seriously for as long as I did. My mistake.

Bit suspicious that it’s a so big issue to show an unedited full-run.

I noticed something from this Video….
The gate as to “helping Ferra finding the engineer” Opened or was speed up to 5 sec faster than it should be.
And EACH Acolytes spawned also spawned 5 seconds faster 3x
and TW was at 100% not 50%
I smell fish

VanityValentine.6203:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgz5rGkDXZA

I noticed something from this Video….
The gate as to “helping Ferra finding the engineer” Opened or was speed up to 5 sec faster than it should be.
And EACH Acolytes spawned also spawned 5 seconds faster 3x
and TW was at 100% not 50%
I smell fish

There is nothing wrong by judging from skills cooldown.

VenomousEX.4012:

VanityValentine.6203:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgz5rGkDXZA

I noticed something from this Video….
The gate as to “helping Ferra finding the engineer” Opened or was speed up to 5 sec faster than it should be.
And EACH Acolytes spawned also spawned 5 seconds faster 3x
and TW was at 100% not 50%
I smell fish

There is nothing wrong by judging from skills cooldown.

Gate and all Acolytes still open n respawn 5 sec faster.

VanityValentine.6203:

VenomousEX.4012:

VanityValentine.6203:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgz5rGkDXZA

I noticed something from this Video….
The gate as to “helping Ferra finding the engineer” Opened or was speed up to 5 sec faster than it should be.
And EACH Acolytes spawned also spawned 5 seconds faster 3x
and TW was at 100% not 50%
I smell fish

There is nothing wrong by judging from skills cooldown.

Gate and all Acolytes still open n respawn 5 sec faster.

Meaning, tell me ur opinon please.

It’s made from joint clips.

Strife’s video is not made from joint clips. We open the gate with Ferrah using Portal to speed her up, because that’s how you do it in speed runs. I’m surprised I have to tell you this. As far as what you’re seeing with Acolytes spawning faster, I don’t see any inconsistency. Please leave your conspiracy theories in the BLTC subforum.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Strife’s video is not made from joint clips. We open the gate with Ferrah using Portal to speed her up, because that’s how you do it in speed runs. I’m surprised I have to tell you this. As far as what you’re seeing with Acolytes spawning faster, I don’t see any inconsistency. Please leave your conspiracy theories in the BLTC subforum.

Yeah. I use strife’s videos for my speedrun guide. Thats why i wanna know whats he talking about. Im still waiting for his reply. lol

lol a guildy told me about this thread, not gonna read through it right now. Except thinking my 6:00 video is edited is just dumb, when in my commentary I tell you how to speed up ferrah.

And editing for the acolytes? Get a stop watch or look at skill cooldowns instead of showing you have no clue what you’re talking about.

That being said, that video was pre-time warp. But with banner buffs and a couple of dps improvements, I’m pretty sure I could re-create it, but haven’t bothered trying. Been busy lately with a new job so haven’t been putting up new videos, but hopfully have some re-records and finished fractals coming soon.

Ehm, people were running this dungeon path in 6-7 minutes, half a year ago, with completely random group setups.

People should probably realize that the amount of time you can shave off through getting that 10% more DPS is minuscule.

VenomousEX.4012:

VanityValentine.6203:

VenomousEX.4012:

VanityValentine.6203:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgz5rGkDXZA

I noticed something from this Video….
The gate as to “helping Ferra finding the engineer” Opened or was speed up to 5 sec faster than it should be.
And EACH Acolytes spawned also spawned 5 seconds faster 3x
and TW was at 100% not 50%
I smell fish

There is nothing wrong by judging from skills cooldown.

Gate and all Acolytes still open n respawn 5 sec faster.

Meaning, tell me ur opinon please.

hmm, soo its not clear to you then….
You want to compare a run of a video done back when acolytes spawn 5 seconds faster. SO, when the first acolyte was killed, u only have to wait 40 sec for it to spawn again, and another 40 sec to kill it for the 3rd time..
Now, idk since when, but acolytes spawn 45 sec after u kill them..
And back then, the gate opens appxmtly 20 sec after killing the slave driver, now you have to wait 5 extra seconds for it to open…
You’re trying to compare runs before and after patch…

Vanity Valentine never said the video was edited. He/she is basically saying there are “hidden nerfs” to CoF not released in the patch notes in addition to the Time Warp nerf.

Acolytes respawn time before March 26 = 40
Acolytes respawn time after March 26 = 45

Gate time after slave driver before March 26 = 20 second
Gate time after slave driver after March 26 = 25 seconds

Meaning there is a total of 20 second loss in addition to the TW nerf (about a loss of 10 seconds perhaps). So Strife’s 6 min run would really be about 6:30ish after March 26 considering they do everything the same.

—

So then you guys are asking us to make a full video after March 26 in which we are handicapped by about 30 second-ish.

—

And while I would like to make a video, there are two things making that request difficult:

1) The other 2 thieves other than Shadow Espada hardly log on and generally play when its 3 am-ish here. We only have 3 thieves in the guild and your asking for them to all log on and for us to play late past midnight. In addition, during that time, we’re pretty much the only 1s online. So we also have to find a last person.

2) We don’t have the same CPU spec as Strife. He records that with hardly any lag. When we record, our recorder (the thief), keeps lagging to death (With such randomness involved, it wouldn’t be surprising that we would have to only get a video together of the best parts where lag didn’t F us over). Now, I tried recording too, and I can show you the recording but it spike freezes every couple of seconds. This is why I all the video I have uploaded that feature us have been recorded by other people.

—

AND FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME, the parts edited out do not matter (boulder and times in between acolytes) because class composition wouldn’t matter there (well maybe Thief would have an easier time disengaging combat with stealth).

All our explanations for why thieves would do better than GS Warriors have been mentioned time and time again in this thread of which you guys still have not replied to, which is showing that you guys concede to our arguments.

And instead of showing how GS Warriors actually do better than thieves, you guys just ask for us to beat Strife’s video before March 26 with our handicaps:

-30ish second nerf after March 26 to CoF p1
-Different time schedules to get our team comp. to 3 thieves, 1 war, 1 mez
-Low and crappy cpu specs and hoping lag doesn’t screw us over each time from recording.

Lastly, as I already mentioned, (but it seems like I have to repeat myself at least 2 or 3+ times in this thread every single time), making a faster video doesn’t show that any specific class is better than other classes. It shows that coordination, skill, and maybe luck were involved in achieving the ‘perfect’ run that made up for the difference of actual class differences. So to show that a faster run = better class argument is invalid.

And it seems you are accusing us of having had a bunch of runs and only picking out the best segments we had (and the honest explanation would be: fatal lag spikes when recording). To be fair, couldn’t you apply the same argument to Strife’s video? Strife’s cpu specs certainly does seem to give him the option to record every single run w/o suffering ‘fatal’ lag whereas we do. And what the audience wouldn’t know is that he could’ve simply chosen the best run of all his recorded runs. Thus, this argument is completely invalid because it does not only apply to us.

What a valid argument would be is to show that us through logic, math, etc… that GS Warriors can perform better than thieves in certain parts of the run, which you guys have been trying to avoid; and instead, putting the blame on us through not having a full run video after March 26 with all the disadvantages against us (with all the nerfs to CoF p1) that more than likely outweigh the class difference between Warriors and Thieves. Very suspicious.

Nikaido.3457:

And it seems you are accusing us of having had a bunch of runs and only picking out the best segments we had (and I already explained why this is so: Because we have crap cpu specs and are trying to play with low FPS when recording). To be fair, couldn’t you apply the same argument to Strife’s video? For all I know, Strife could have recorded dozens and dozens of videos and just have chosen the best one.

Even so, that would be a best, actual, full run, not a mix match of the best segments being assembled into one fake video, the run did happen, it might not happen so smoothly all the time, but the run recorded happened as is. What you’re showing is not a real run but bits and pieces from multiple runs. This group of thieves could’ve died all the time during skips or wasted time switching utilities more than a group of warrior and we wouldn’t be able to see it because it’s not an actual run being recorded but your “best of slave driver”, “best of gate”, “best of end boss” rather than “my best run out of all the runs I did”.

And the argument that you can’t record a full run but can somehow during a whole night spend your time cherry picking your favorite parts (farming CoF from 2am to 10am!) is pretty poor defense.

It seems like you didn’t even read my last post. Read it more carefully and you will see how everything you just said have been already discussed.

Edit: Err, or I just edited it and you’ve already responded to it. Read over it again.

Nikaido.3457:

And it seems you are accusing us of having had a bunch of runs and only picking out the best segments we had (and I already explained why this is so: Because we have crap cpu specs and are trying to play with low FPS when recording). To be fair, couldn’t you apply the same argument to Strife’s video? For all I know, Strife could have recorded dozens and dozens of videos and just have chosen the best one.

Even so, that would be a best, actual, full run, not a mix match of the best segments being assembled into one fake video, the run did happen, it might not happen so smoothly all the time, but the run recorded happened as is. What you’re showing is not a real run but bits and pieces from multiple runs. This group of thieves could’ve died all the time during skips or wasted time switching utilities more than a group of warrior and we wouldn’t be able to see it because it’s not an actual run being recorded but your “best of slave driver”, “best of gate”, “best of end boss” rather than “my best run out of all the runs I did”.

And the argument that you can’t record a full run but can somehow during a whole night spend your time cherry picking your favorite parts (farming CoF from 2am to 10am!) is pretty poor defense.

I find both of these scenarios extremely unlikely. There’s ample down time in this dungeon where you’re waiting on NPCs for any utility switching you might need, and I don’t see how thieves would be any more prone to dying on the bridge than warriors are, and warriors aren’t prone to it to start with.

If you’re argument truly is, “I think you have a fail group that managed to get awesome boss times in,” then. . .I don’t see your logic, because that’s not a bad thing. >_>

If you want to calculate into account the 20 second nerf to CoF p1 and TW nerf (let’s say 10 seconds?) that begins at the explosion at door, then we already have a video that beats his video with a “messed up run video”. And yes, we only have 1 thief because as I’ve already stated, we’re on different time zones. We just formed a party based on who was available so we couldn’t form the 3 thief 1 warrior 1 mez party (don’t worry, none of our Warriors actually use Hundred Blade.) BUT you asked for it.

Strife’s video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgz5rGkDXZA

In Strife’s video, the gate opens at 00:59 and the boss dies at 5:52 meaning it is 4:53 run. Then convert in the 20 second nerf. That would be 5:13 and TW nerf (10 secondish), 5:23.

In our video, the gate opens at 00:04. Then we kill the last boss at 5:04. Meaning this was a 5:00 run from the point gate opens.

But as the title mentions, it wasn’t a very good run. And I messed up, TW went off too late as you can see that TW still had 4 seconds leftover after the boss died. Well actually, I didn’t mess up. You are supposed to TW after the fire Aoe as it cleanses conditions (meaning you’re supposed to TW after the fire aoe). AS I said, luck is involved. In Strife’s video, the boss fire aoe’s almost immedietly (at around 90% hp) whereas in our video the boss began fire aoe’ing about when it was already 70% hp giving them the advantage in luck in that specific video. From experience, I would say the chances Effigy fire aoe’s as such a perfect timing is perhaps every 1/5 runs.
Luck plays a huge factor in speed runs and recording that ‘perfect’ video where effigy does that good timing on fire aoe and nothing else goes wrong in any other parts of the run (such as falling off b ridge due to fatal lag spikes from recording) is not as easy as you’d think when you have luck playing such a huge role in these speed runs and for us, multiply that by crappy cpu specs of where you get spike lags similar to in WvW zergs where you can’t even see what’s happening. And of course there’s lots of other things that happen too, such as the charrs that get pulled to turret start running around or Slave Driver starts running around during TW, Slave Driver having the invul. bug, just to name a few.

And really, the video doesn’t mean anything really. It doesn’t prove anything because there are too many factors involved. (Well actually, if that was a perfect run, it would’ve cut 10secondsish and then we’d really be ahead)

My point being: Why are you putting such a huge burden on us in trying to record a new video while you guys aren’t making a new video (which you should because of all the nerfs and changes in March 26) and in videos so many other factors come into play, such as luck, team coordination, skills, etc… which shouldn’t be used in weighing strengths and weaknesses of dps classes. Either create a new video or simply demonstrate how GS Warriors would outperform thieves (I mean seriously, you guys just keep avoiding this question and I assume you will keep doing so. tbh, that’s pretty bad if you keep avoiding those main questions here that outline details of the run)