Could we get some NEW Dungeon Content Please?

Could we get some NEW Dungeon Content Please?

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Argistrin.3597

Argistrin.3597

It’s been five years since the launch of our beloved Guild Wars 2, and in that time we’ve had only the at launch set of 9 dungeons. Nine Dungeons. Nine. That’s it. Oh you have different “paths” But they’re all the same singular dungeon. They were great at launch, but it’s been five years. Five years. Now, if I recall the original dungeon team was canned right after launch and really there’s been little since but a few bug fixes… And lets be serious here… only a few. Spike Trap Switch #1 in Ascalon Catacombs I’m looking at you.
Now, that being said, since the launch of The Secret of Southsun Living World update it appears that all 5-man content has been shuffled off onto Fractals. Fractals are fine. I’m not here to complain about Fractals. Fractals are an aggressively competitive and difficult 5-man wallapalooza of fun for those that enjoy them. But they’re not dungeons. They don’t have an engaging or intrinsic part to play in the lore, nor do they offer the same type of rewards, or offer the same opportunities and level of enjoyment.

I feel that ArenaNet, has been pushing content out like never before, and yet… there’s the elephant in the room of an entire section of the game that’s been neglected profoundly.

And Here’s the real rub. Each new instance of the living story season 3, provided us with all manner of updates to various aspects of the game and even introduced entirely new maps for players to progress on. But, these were all potentially missed opportunities for adding a new dungeon and new armor and weapon selections to the game.

Take a step backwards with me and imagine if we had had an instance with ONE path in each section of season 3. Perhaps a Whitemantle citadel in BSF, a Skritt Pirate Cavern in EB, a Sons of Svan Ice Castle dungeon…

I’m just spit-balling here, but I really do feel like we’re loosing out on 5 man content, and I’d like to see that change. I’d like to see the players CHALLENGE ArenaNet. I know They can do it, they are if not the best, very close to the best in the entire business.

What are your thoughts on this 5 year span of content drought on the dungeon front?

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Posted by: OnizukaBR.8537

OnizukaBR.8537

How hard is to understand, dungeons are not a white elephant in the room because they are not being ignored without saying a word. They said that they wont make new dungeons, fractals are the new dungeon, and whats the difference between a one path dungeon and a fractal ?

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Posted by: RedDeadFred.1256

RedDeadFred.1256

They’re not making any more. They said this. Fractals have replaced them. This is not new.

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Posted by: kluki.3915

kluki.3915

and we get like 3 fractals in 2 years…. sick

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Posted by: Azoqu.8917

Azoqu.8917

and we get like 3 fractals in 2 years…. sick

As true as this is, it’s more like 3 fractals in 1 year and the other year Anet had no one working on them. Yes it is a cop out just like “Legendary armor was 1 year, twice” but since there is actually a fractal team now, we should be seeing them regularly which is nice.

Plus, seeing new fractals instead of dungeons lets them have each one being 100% unique compared to a dungeon which would have paths that go through the same area. There is also the fact that fractals can go to places that don’t make sense for dungeons, like the past, alternate realities, or space.

Edit: Also fractals scale in difficulty unlike dungeons.

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Posted by: Amineo.8951

Amineo.8951

and we get like 3 fractals in 2 years…. sick

As true as this is, it’s more like 3 fractals in 1 year and the other year Anet had no one working on them. Yes it is a cop out just like “Legendary armor was 1 year, twice” but since there is actually a fractal team now, we should be seeing them regularly which is nice.

Plus, seeing new fractals instead of dungeons lets them have each one being 100% unique compared to a dungeon which would have paths that go through the same area. There is also the fact that fractals can go to places that don’t make sense for dungeons, like the past, alternate realities, or space.

Edit: Also fractals scale in difficulty unlike dungeons.

cough cough Mini-raids cough

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Posted by: kluki.3915

kluki.3915

Ye as much as i loved dungeons, i got nothing against fractals actually i really like them, but when i returned to gw2(stopped playing about month after hot realese) and saw that only 3 fractals were added in nearly 2 YEARS, that was really sad. And now with new expansion coming there is probably no new fractals at launch. If they gonna add new fractal every 2 months with ls update im cool with it, but i got this feeling thats not gonna be the case. But i hope im wrong and we will see much more fractals…

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Posted by: Hesacon.8735

Hesacon.8735

Ye as much as i loved dungeons, i got nothing against fractals actually i really like them, but when i returned to gw2(stopped playing about month after hot realese) and saw that only 3 fractals were added in nearly 2 YEARS, that was really sad. And now with new expansion coming there is probably no new fractals at launch. If they gonna add new fractal every 2 months with ls update im cool with it, but i got this feeling thats not gonna be the case. But i hope im wrong and we will see much more fractals…

There was also a substantial effort cleaning up and revamping existing fractals for quality of life. Other than uncategorized, urban battleground and molten boss, every fractal has seen either a QoL rework or total revamp.

Those are done now, allowing them to focus more time on new fractals.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

and we get like 3 fractals in 2 years…. sick

There has been 1 year since the Fractal team started releasing Fractals.
So in one year we got:
3 entirely new fractals
2 challenge mode versions on 2 of those fractals
1 serious revamp (Swampland)
4 major revamps (Thaumanova, Snowblind, Underground, Cliffside)
updates to the rest of them.
It’s not like the team isn’t working or hasn’t produced more than enough instanced content for the game.

What are your thoughts on this 5 year span of content drought on the dungeon front?

Dungeons are dead an never coming back. Fractals is the 5-man instanced content of the game and it has been like this for a long time.

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Posted by: UnbentMars.9126

UnbentMars.9126

If I remember the announcement correctly, ANET stated that they were abandoning dungeons because creating 3 paths and a full gear set for each one was too time-consuming and they’d rather focus on other things.

That’s fine and all, but it also assumes that there have to be 3 paths per and a full gear set. Frankly, I’d absolutely love some new dungeons without full new sets of gear and just 1 path. The issue I have with fractals is that, to date, they have not been used to keep up with current content but rather rehash old content or follow a side-along story that misses out on a ton of potential.

The reason I want dungeons to come back is because they make a great foray into some stories/lore/what have you that fractals can’t reasonably touch. I’ll give you some examples:

A path in HoT that follows up on Malyck and explains where he went/wraps up his story likely as an end boss or maybe even a sylvari from a different tree that did not turn with the rest of his ilk because of his previous interactions with the sylvari player character before Mordemoth woke.

A path in BSF that follows the actual Lazarus that the White Mantle snuck out when the PCs were fighting Xera, maybe culminating in some information that would have given us some indication that Lazarus was not the real Lazarus (a missed opportunity since it’s moot now, but just as an example of the kind of thing that could be tackled in dungeons rather than fractals).

In Siren’s Landing a dungeon where you focus on taking out some Risen holdovers from Arah, maybe a sort of return to Arah years later to see Orr’s recovery as well as what has happened to the more powerful Risen now that Zhaitan is gone (some local leaders arising after reclaiming a bit of independence, eyes of zhaitan and such).

In upcoming maps, I’d rather fight Palawa Joko in a dungeon than in the story. I think it likely he may end up being fought in a raid, but such a storied character would be great as an antagonist in both a dungeon and a raid, the dungeon as an introduction to the types of abilities he uses and then the raid as an expanded, more difficult version. Another option would be to have a dungeon where you attack a fortress Joko owns to kill off some lieutenants prior to the raid scenario or whatever, have an assault-style instance.

See what I’m getting at? Fractals focus on past events or things unrelated to the current story whereas dungeons are an excellent vehicle for some stories that weren’t able to be touched on or fully told in the main story.

Rev, Ele, Burnzerker
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”

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Posted by: Fancypants.9705

Fancypants.9705

Really… another one of these posts… do some research before venting… there plenty of these threads out there already. You adding another won’t change anything.

Dungeons are to easy for end game play… thats why Anet is focusing on Raids and Fractals

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

Well since fractals are in the mists they can be past present or future or even possible futures.
So I see no reason why your two examples cant be inside a fractal.

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Posted by: Jahroots.6791

Jahroots.6791

Dungeons could be made as hard as they like. It’s probably more an issue of wanting to take a completely new approach and have people adjust their expectations accordingly, as they have done with raids. Players would want new armour and weapon skins from a dungeon and that just isn’t going to happen.

It would have been nice to have at least a couple level 80 paths added to some of the existing dungeons though. There’s definitely enough assets and appropriate lore to justify a White Mantle path in CM, for example. Maybe a ghost or Branded path in AC. Just re-do the existing weapons for each dungeon set and have them as random drops, as is the case in the Aetherblade path of TA.

Unlikely, but it’s a nice thought.

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Posted by: Jahroots.6791

Jahroots.6791

Well since fractals are in the mists they can be past present or future or even possible futures.
So I see no reason why your two examples cant be inside a fractal.

The current agony system makes fractals uncomfortably restrictive, though. One of my favourite things about dungeons is the ability to take all of my alts though to see which ones fit each path best. It’d cost hundreds of gold just for enough agony infusions to do the same in fractals.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Well since fractals are in the mists they can be past present or future or even possible futures.
So I see no reason why your two examples cant be inside a fractal.

The current agony system makes fractals uncomfortably restrictive, though. One of my favourite things about dungeons is the ability to take all of my alts though to see which ones fit each path best. It’d cost hundreds of gold just for enough agony infusions to do the same in fractals.

Agony infusions are removable at a cost of 24s. You can use potions to get through much of Tier 2, so you can get a decent idea of what to expect without worrying much about AR.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: The Hero Warrior Il.7681

The Hero Warrior Il.7681

I agree, Fractals does not have the same feel as dungeons has.

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Posted by: FrostDraco.8306

FrostDraco.8306

Well since fractals are in the mists they can be past present or future or even possible futures.
So I see no reason why your two examples cant be inside a fractal.

The current agony system makes fractals uncomfortably restrictive, though. One of my favourite things about dungeons is the ability to take all of my alts though to see which ones fit each path best. It’d cost hundreds of gold just for enough agony infusions to do the same in fractals.

Not hundreds. At most 150.

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Posted by: Jahroots.6791

Jahroots.6791

Not hundreds. At most 150.

I have a lot of alts. Lol.

And yes I have swapped the infusions around quite a bit but it’s tedious to have to do each item manually.

‘What else can you bring?’
‘I have x,y and z
‘Ok, switch.’

Works in dungeons and raids, but not fractals.

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Posted by: Orangensaft.7139

Orangensaft.7139

Just 1 Dungeon per expansion would already be so epic

I can just hope Anet reconsiders it one day
Maybe if enough people show that they would like to have it

We Glitched Out Of All [MAPS]
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Posted by: thrag.9740

thrag.9740

I would absolutely love some new dungeons. Dungeons utilized a very different skill set and I enjoyed it. Additionally, it was nice to have some casual content that was rewarding. I love getting together with my static once a week for raids, and occasional fractal runs with friends, but with dungeons I could join any pug group and pretty much guarantee smooth success because they were so easy that 4 meat shields and 1 competent player was enough.

Pugging fractals is much less enjoyable than pugging dungeons used to be. Especially when you have mechanics where your own team mates can kill you such as social awkwardness, random anomaly well, and break bars that are essential (chaos final boss).

Also unlike fractals, dungeon currencies actually go in the wallet.

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Posted by: Harper.4173

Harper.4173

I miss dungeons too – somehow fractals never did capture that same element.
I think the problem is that fractals, unlike dungeons were never lore-heavy. Dungeons were very thematic and lore-heavy and that made them a very good and strong overall experience.

If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”

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Posted by: FrostDraco.8306

FrostDraco.8306

Not hundreds. At most 150.

I have a lot of alts. Lol.

And yes I have swapped the infusions around quite a bit but it’s tedious to have to do each item manually.

‘What else can you bring?’
‘I have x,y and z
‘Ok, switch.’

Works in dungeons and raids, but not fractals.

Thats still a problem with you, NOT the AR system. Either learn to be more selective about which toons you do fractals on or suffer the consequences of someone that doesn’t.

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Posted by: Jahroots.6791

Jahroots.6791

Thats still a problem with you, NOT the AR system. Either learn to be more selective about which toons you do fractals on or suffer the consequences of someone that doesn’t.

You’ve missed my point entirely.

I was saying that I liked dungeons better because I…

Actually noooooope. Nevermind.

Sometimes I really get the sense that many of the posters in this sub-forum don’t respond intending to further the discussion, so much as to be snarky towards others who are even a little bit critical of the content.

But, back to the topic at hand. Here’s a pretty neat video that sums up everything that made dungeons great.

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Posted by: Iozeph.5617

Iozeph.5617

If I remember the announcement correctly, ANET stated that they were abandoning dungeons because creating 3 paths and a full gear set for each one was too time-consuming and they’d rather focus on other things.

That’s fine and all, but it also assumes that there have to be 3 paths per and a full gear set. Frankly, I’d absolutely love some new dungeons without full new sets of gear and just 1 path. The issue I have with fractals is that, to date, they have not been used to keep up with current content but rather rehash old content or follow a side-along story that misses out on a ton of potential.

The reason I want dungeons to come back is because they make a great foray into some stories/lore/what have you that fractals can’t reasonably touch. I’ll give you some examples:

They’re greedy and lazy end of story. Everything being mentioned here could have been done. The work certainly has been done. Go to the gem store. Go to the Black Lion Exchange. Look at weapon skins. Look at the amount of Outfits that have been released over the last three years.

Break those up by armour pieces and just give them exotic stats. There’s the dungeon sets we should have been getting. And see, they’re still releasing new exotic/asc stat sets. You just aren’t able to earn them from dungeons.

The truth is they wanted to take content that could have been earned through game play and shift it all to the gem store. If you want the outfit- gems. If you want the weapon set either gems for keys then the gambling game of chests for scraps/tickets, or gems for gold for skins sold on the exchange. They still would have made a goodly sum from selling transmute tokens for new dungeon sets from skinning and reskinning as not everyone plays WvW. But that wasn’t enough.

It wasn’t balance. It wasn’t quality of life.

They’ve abandoned their mission statement. Players -many players and guilds- have abandoned this game(include disillusioned wvw and pvp veterans), and so they want/need to make up for that shortfall by driving gems sales on those still playing.

Raiding and fractals are one of the ways they do this. Just as in World of Warcraft -or any other mmo with a raiding/heroic instance(fractals ARE mini raids) scene- those whales truly dedicated to succeeding and succeeding first rely on having best in slots and on heavy use of consumables.

Food and oils/sharpening stones, item crafting, they all take expensive materials to craft. If there’s one thing players know about gw2 it’s that Anet has gone out of their way to eradicate farming spots by either removing reliable spawns or by making the percentage chance for certain items to drop so insignificant that farming is a wasted effort. And yet – those commodities never seem to run out on the exchange. They’re only pixels after all. Consumables and the scenes that lean heavily on them drive gems sales.

In world of warcraft to keep guilds in flasks and other consumables many top guilds simply went to gold sites to keep themselves stocked. Those treating raids as competitive games modes burned through tons. Yes, once everything was on farm it relaxed somewhat, but for those pushing after world firsts, or just guild firsts every advantage counted -they still do.

Many of the top guilds back then loved to lord it over other guilds when asked how they managed it during rows between casuals and raiders by saying, ‘What- we have lives. We play less than you. We only play ten hours a week tops. We just make them quality hours.’

Which was steaming pile of lies back then and it’s still a steaming pile of lies today, but Blizzard allowed it and allowed them to not be banned for the carnival shill factor of having them set in capital cities with their loot on display in order to drive interest in the game mode. It worked. How well?

So well that they had to come up with account authenticators. Why? Because of course giving your payment/account information to third party sites who probably load your pc down with spyware/keyloggers when you go to buy gold from them are going to attempt to steal your account- after all they DID/DO sell characters/accounts as well. But what a difference a decade makes!

Now most games attempt(not altogether successful) to cut out the third party currency/item brokers by having in-game currency shops provided at launch. All about the money.

So the next time you get the itch to post here about dungeons, take a deep breath or ten, say to yourself, ’won’t happen, it’s all about money.’ And just try to do something more fun than cobble together a post that’s going to get you ridiculed here by the holier-than-thou crowd.

TLDR; It all comes down to gems sales. For the amount of loot dungeons gave(even with the need to farm them for tokens) they just didn’t drive gem sales enough to keep Anet in the black once they drove the majority of the gw2 player base away.

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Posted by: felincyriac.5981

felincyriac.5981

raids,fractals…dungeons? The kitten is a dungeon?

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Posted by: UnbentMars.9126

UnbentMars.9126

If I remember the announcement correctly, ANET stated that they were abandoning dungeons because creating 3 paths and a full gear set for each one was too time-consuming and they’d rather focus on other things.

That’s fine and all, but it also assumes that there have to be 3 paths per and a full gear set. Frankly, I’d absolutely love some new dungeons without full new sets of gear and just 1 path. The issue I have with fractals is that, to date, they have not been used to keep up with current content but rather rehash old content or follow a side-along story that misses out on a ton of potential.

The reason I want dungeons to come back is because they make a great foray into some stories/lore/what have you that fractals can’t reasonably touch. I’ll give you some examples:

They’re greedy and lazy end of story. Everything being mentioned here could have been done. The work certainly has been done. Go to the gem store. Go to the Black Lion Exchange. Look at weapon skins. Look at the amount of Outfits that have been released over the last three years.

Break those up by armour pieces and just give them exotic stats. There’s the dungeon sets we should have been getting. And see, they’re still releasing new exotic/asc stat sets. You just aren’t able to earn them from dungeons.

The truth is they wanted to take content that could have been earned through game play and shift it all to the gem store. If you want the outfit- gems. If you want the weapon set either gems for keys then the gambling game of chests for scraps/tickets, or gems for gold for skins sold on the exchange. They still would have made a goodly sum from selling transmute tokens for new dungeon sets from skinning and reskinning as not everyone plays WvW. But that wasn’t enough.

It wasn’t balance. It wasn’t quality of life.

They’ve abandoned their mission statement. Players -many players and guilds- have abandoned this game(include disillusioned wvw and pvp veterans), and so they want/need to make up for that shortfall by driving gems sales on those still playing.

Raiding and fractals are one of the ways they do this. Just as in World of Warcraft -or any other mmo with a raiding/heroic instance(fractals ARE mini raids) scene- those whales truly dedicated to succeeding and succeeding first rely on having best in slots and on heavy use of consumables.

Food and oils/sharpening stones, item crafting, they all take expensive materials to craft. If there’s one thing players know about gw2 it’s that Anet has gone out of their way to eradicate farming spots by either removing reliable spawns or by making the percentage chance for certain items to drop so insignificant that farming is a wasted effort. And yet – those commodities never seem to run out on the exchange. They’re only pixels after all. Consumables and the scenes that lean heavily on them drive gems sales.

In world of warcraft to keep guilds in flasks and other consumables many top guilds simply went to gold sites to keep themselves stocked. Those treating raids as competitive games modes burned through tons. Yes, once everything was on farm it relaxed somewhat, but for those pushing after world firsts, or just guild firsts every advantage counted -they still do.

Many of the top guilds back then loved to lord it over other guilds when asked how they managed it during rows between casuals and raiders by saying, ‘What- we have lives. We play less than you. We only play ten hours a week tops. We just make them quality hours.’

Which was steaming pile of lies back then and it’s still a steaming pile of lies today, but Blizzard allowed it and allowed them to not be banned for the carnival shill factor of having them set in capital cities with their loot on display in order to drive interest in the game mode. It worked. How well?

So well that they had to come up with account authenticators. Why? Because of course giving your payment/account information to third party sites who probably load your pc down with spyware/keyloggers when you go to buy gold from them are going to attempt to steal your account- after all they DID/DO sell characters/accounts as well. But what a difference a decade makes!

Now most games attempt(not altogether successful) to cut out the third party currency/item brokers by having in-game currency shops provided at launch. All about the money.

So the next time you get the itch to post here about dungeons, take a deep breath or ten, say to yourself, ’won’t happen, it’s all about money.’ And just try to do something more fun than cobble together a post that’s going to get you ridiculed here by the holier-than-thou crowd.

TLDR; It all comes down to gems sales. For the amount of loot dungeons gave(even with the need to farm them for tokens) they just didn’t drive gem sales enough to keep Anet in the black once they drove the majority of the gw2 player base away.

You’re absolutely right. God forbid ArenaNet need to make any kind of money?!?!1? They should provide this basically free content and not want any kind of income! The devs should be thought of as doing charity work, and charity means unpaid! How dare a company want to stay in business!!!!!!

It’s pretty funny you decry the “holier than thou” crowd when you are so clearly high-ranking among them.

Rev, Ele, Burnzerker
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”

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Posted by: Talindra.4958

Talindra.4958

Would be nice dungeon in new map.. I miss those days..

Champion Magus & Phantom, Demon’s Demise, The Archdesigner.
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Australia

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Posted by: Iozeph.5617

Iozeph.5617

Yes there is a bit of a chip. But then nobody wants to be the player told that their preferred mode isn’t important and therefor they aren’t important. Our money spends the same doesn’t it?

As for your personal experiences- yes, I’ve been there. My small, family guild came in with the ‘great mmo migration’ of several years ago. Some of the dungeon groups were terrible but I put that down to raiders not having their game mode yet- similar type A personalities etc treating the dungeons as serious business.

That said, once we knew the ins and outs we had a choice- either to be ‘those guys’ the ones who chewed out anyone even trying to approach dungeons for the first time never knowing they ’shouldn’t wear clerics,’ or they should know to enough that the group wants to skip half the dungeon via shadow refuge etc… The other choice was to go slower, mentor other new players when we ran dungeons and try to have a fun time doing it. We chose the latter. We didn’t speed run, we fought trash, and generally the dungeons were a fun way to pass a couple of hours in an evening.

As we’d only just come up through leveling they were directly more relateable to the outdoor zones and personal story segments we were playing through. Fractals weren’t. Fractals offered all of the toxicity of the current dungeon environment with none of the lore appeal. An unnerving trench run we were glad to be out of but not necessarily happy for having done.

In our opinions if we’d wanted to make an evening’s outing not fun fractals were the way to do it. Even the lure of slightly better loot wasn’t enough of a draw. For us fractals struck similar chords to Wow’s early attempts at heroic dungeons and so we avoided them and still do.

Having emphasis shifted to fractals left us with nowhere to go. That’s not a fun place to be. It’s easy for others whose mode of choice hasn’t been consigned to the rubbish heap to feel good about where the game is going, and to tell those who have been left out to carry on or get out – never minding the feelings of those who’ve been left out. But that’s human nature and that’s the internet for you.

Unfortunately it’s also human nature to fight back and be nasty about it when someone takes pleasure in your misery. Guilty.

Moving on.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Thats still a problem with you, NOT the AR system. Either learn to be more selective about which toons you do fractals on or suffer the consequences of someone that doesn’t.

You’ve missed my point entirely.

I was saying that I liked dungeons better because I…

Actually noooooope. Nevermind.

Sometimes I really get the sense that many of the posters in this sub-forum don’t respond intending to further the discussion, so much as to be snarky towards others who are even a little bit critical of the content.

But, back to the topic at hand. Here’s a pretty neat video that sums up everything that made dungeons great.

It still doesnt nake it harder to get 150 for like 3 4 alts. Ar is rather cheap and from dailies tou get around 1 stack.