Guild Wars 2

Hello players ,
Just chasing what the latest pve meta groups are for dungeons, fractals and raids.
Am going to flesh out my character to suit.

Thank you

metabattle.com

Basically still full glass, whether power or condi, and then a few niche support roles for raids.

dont use the site above, use qtfy.eu

Sublimatio.6981:

dont use the site above, use qtfy.eu

Either one is fine. Qtfy are the current flavor of the month for build data, but there isn’t actually much distinction between their builds and the metabattle builds — other than “purity of purpose”.

Both are fine now for PvE, there was a time when metabattle updated slow but they’re pretty good now.

I’d recommend qT’s site if you wanna watch videos with rotation in addition to the written guides.

Raid meta is notably different from fractal and dungeon meta as power builds are much better the faster enemies die. Any basic 5 man comp (raids are usually just 2 subsquads with 5 players each), will have the 3 buff classes and 2 dps slots.

Typical 5 man meta comp is:

ps war – druid – chrono – dps slot – dps slot

ps war can be condi or power, with condi the clear winner in raids and most fractals. Honestly I consider power ps niche at this point.

druid can be damage focused (condi vipers) or healing focused (magi) based on needs

chrono can be glassy (zerker+commanders) or tanky (full minstrel) based on needs.

two dps slots can be almost anything, especially outside of raids where time isn’t an issue. Condi ranger and condi engi, are all quite strong, but power ele, power engi, power thief, power guard, and pure condi (i.e. not ps) war are all quite competitive in these slots too. Condi mesmer has niche fights where it is good for these slots.

Additionally, sometimes these dps slots are filled with a lower dps classes that can provide additional utility. For example, hammer guard and power rev can both provide good protection uptime and a lot of cc, which can make raiding very smooth. Condi necro can be very good at clearing large amounts of ads and providing group sustain. Power necro is a build that many of us would like to see buffed to fill this role, it is currently viable but it is noticeably weaker (with that said a good necro is better than a bad ele, and bad eles are prevalent).

thrag.9740:

Raid meta is notably different from fractal and dungeon meta as power builds are much better the faster enemies die. Any basic 5 man comp (raids are usually just 2 subsquads with 5 players each), will have the 3 buff classes and 2 dps slots.

Typical 5 man meta comp is:

ps war – druid – chrono – dps slot – dps slot

ps war can be condi or power, with condi the clear winner in raids and most fractals. Honestly I consider power ps niche at this point.

druid can be damage focused (condi vipers) or healing focused (magi) based on needs

chrono can be glassy (zerker+commanders) or tanky (full minstrel) based on needs.

two dps slots can be almost anything, especially outside of raids where time isn’t an issue. Condi ranger and condi engi, are all quite strong, but power ele, power engi, power thief, power guard, and pure condi (i.e. not ps) war are all quite competitive in these slots too. Condi mesmer has niche fights where it is good for these slots.

Additionally, sometimes these dps slots are filled with a lower dps classes that can provide additional utility. For example, hammer guard and power rev can both provide good protection uptime and a lot of cc, which can make raiding very smooth. Condi necro can be very good at clearing large amounts of ads and providing group sustain. Power necro is a build that many of us would like to see buffed to fill this role, it is currently viable but it is noticeably weaker (with that said a good necro is better than a bad ele, and bad eles are prevalent).

So… how exactly is the raid meta notably different? It is essentially two identical parties, with the occasional sacrifice of some dps for utility…. Which is totally fine for dungeons and fractals as well, even if it is less useful there.

There are different… let’s say “meta” comps for fractals, as the noob-friendly “4 condi 1 druid” one, but just taking half a raid comp works perfectly, provided the players are at least semi-competent.

I find it doesn’t really matter what your build and group is. Unless you are raiding.

Dungeons > Face roll
Fractals 1-50 > Face roll
Fractals 51-75> Some competence
Fractals 76-100 > Should probably run something meta.
Raids > Running a meta (or something close too) will help with a smoother run.

Feanor.2358:

So… how exactly is the raid meta notably different? It is essentially two identical parties, with the occasional sacrifice of some dps for utility…. Which is totally fine for dungeons and fractals as well, even if it is less useful there.

There are different… let’s say “meta” comps for fractals, as the noob-friendly “4 condi 1 druid” one, but just taking half a raid comp works perfectly, provided the players are at least semi-competent.

Well I’m sorta taking meta to mean an attempt to go fast, but not necessarily speed clear record tactics. So base minimum, attempting to make fights fast, maybe even doing some good skip tactics. Half a raid squad certainly does work fine, I just wouldn’t call it meta. You don’t have to have a meta group to be a good group.

First lets discuss fractals: Raid meta is notably different in specific builds for the buff classes being different, and different dps classes being strong.

buff classes: condi ps probably still best. No more magi druid, just go condi druid. Certainly no minstrel chrono, just go zerk/commander.

dps slots: Here is where the real differences arise. While condi ranger and condi engi are pretty much top dps choice in raids by a significant margin, in fractals power builds are going to do much better (except maybe cm100). However, fractals still have a lot of positional constraints, making builds that can do damage at distance much more effective imo. So in fractals I would say ele edges out into being best dps role, with guardian a solid second. Additionally, in fractals blinds are much more useful so I would say the ability of an ele to choose between using sandstorm and lightning storm is great utility.

For dungeons things get crazy. Every fight is so short if you have good players, it changes what would be meta. I can’t comment as I haven’t ran dungeons regularly post HOT. At the very least always have a source of stealth seems like a part of any meta dungeon comp.

rwolf.9571:

I find it doesn’t really matter what your build and group is. Unless you are raiding.

Dungeons > Face roll
Fractals 1-50 > Face roll
Fractals 51-75> Some competence
Fractals 76-100 > Should probably run something meta.
Raids > Running a meta (or something close too) will help with a smoother run.

should prob run something meta haHAA (75-100)

for non-raiding PvE either Metabattle or QTFY.eu is fine, really

anything is fine for non-raiding PvE actually

thrag.9740:

You don’t have to have a meta group to be a good group.

Indeed. But if anything can qualify for meta, it would be the druid/chrono/ps/2x dps comp. It just covers all the bases nicely, gets you all the buffs to ensure smooth and easy kills.

thrag.9740:

So in fractals I would say ele edges out into being best dps role, with guardian a solid second.

Until you run a scepter build with Permeating Wrath. Then the Guardian out DPSs everyone with no input from the rest of the group because they can provide permanent 25 might to themselves while dishing out huge amounts of AoE. If the Guardian is burn say hello to 25k burn ticks while still providing Aegis and other defensive buffs.

This is just how different fractals are to raids, crazy builds can work in fractals but fail horribly in raids because in raids you are guaranteed certain buffs while in fractals it’s completely random what you’ll have.

That’s not “fractals vs raids” comparison, that’s “pug vs organized group”. And actually in higher-tier fractals – and especially groups who’re aiming for 100 CM – usually groups are “organized”, meaning they LFG for the specific professions to provide the combat buffs and healing.

The difference in fractals is they are easier, so you can get away with suboptimal groups and builds. So if you’re not looking for doing tier 4 on a daily basis, you don’t really care what your group would look like in the end. If you do it daily, however, there’s s a reason to go for the raid meta. Because you minimize the chances to end up in a group wiping several times in a row on the arm seals in Cliffside. It’s not a big deal once. But over the span of months it translates to a lot less frustration and a lot more fun from playing the game.

Feanor.2358:

That’s not “fractals vs raids” comparison, that’s “pug vs organized group”. And actually in higher-tier fractals – and especially groups who’re aiming for 100 CM – usually groups are “organized”, meaning they LFG for the specific professions to provide the combat buffs and healing.

The difference in fractals is they are easier, so you can get away with suboptimal groups and builds. So if you’re not looking for doing tier 4 on a daily basis, you don’t really care what your group would look like in the end. If you do it daily, however, there’s s a reason to go for the raid meta. Because you minimize the chances to end up in a group wiping several times in a row on the arm seals in Cliffside. It’s not a big deal once. But over the span of months it translates to a lot less frustration and a lot more fun from playing the game.

I run 5 necros on cliffside and clearing that just fine. Face it, whatever group that happened to, was just bad.

Fractals has never been about the meta, it’s always been about knowing the fight. The only place where dps actually matters is 100 CM for saix, and my power reaper can solo clear one by auto attacking…..in shroud.

FrostDraco.8306:

Feanor.2358:

That’s not “fractals vs raids” comparison, that’s “pug vs organized group”. And actually in higher-tier fractals – and especially groups who’re aiming for 100 CM – usually groups are “organized”, meaning they LFG for the specific professions to provide the combat buffs and healing.

The difference in fractals is they are easier, so you can get away with suboptimal groups and builds. So if you’re not looking for doing tier 4 on a daily basis, you don’t really care what your group would look like in the end. If you do it daily, however, there’s s a reason to go for the raid meta. Because you minimize the chances to end up in a group wiping several times in a row on the arm seals in Cliffside. It’s not a big deal once. But over the span of months it translates to a lot less frustration and a lot more fun from playing the game.

I run 5 necros on cliffside and clearing that just fine. Face it, whatever group that happened to, was just bad.

Fractals has never been about the meta, it’s always been about knowing the fight. The only place where dps actually matters is 100 CM for saix, and my power reaper can solo clear one by auto attacking…..in shroud.

It’s faster if you use a meta party composition and not 4N1R.

For instance, I was doing between 20 and about 21K DPS on my Condition Ranger for instance, at T4 Grawl. The top DPS in my necro guildie’s party was 7k, and the others were doing… marginally, if not substantially worse DPS. Now obviously, as you can see playing the meta comp makes it much faster. Yes, I was actually trying a little to keep rotation and maximise my DPS, but while my teammates weren’t doing so hot DPS wise, they were doing enough that it was a substantial decrease in time spent being in combat compared to 4 Necro 1 Ranger groups. You can argue all you want that they didn’t maximise DPS on their classes, but if you’re going to try that hard on a class to get good at the DPS rotation you might as well just play a class that has more potential.

Admittedly condi ranger is basically busted in its current state, and following that logic so is condi druid, but let’s not pretend that Necromancer is anywhere near as good of a DPS class as other classes that you could be dedicating to DPS. Sure there was a 32k benchmark DPS video but it doesn’t hide the fact that Necromancer is still heavily reliant on combo fields to deal the bulk of its damage.

I acknowledge that it IS about knowing the fight, but if you truly know the fight why not just play the meta composition because it’ll make things faster, ESPECIALLY since you can use portal shenanigans and stealth amongst other things?

edit: TL;DR the whole point of the meta composition is quite simply that it makes things faster, it doesn’t necessarily make things safer. Yes, even experienced players will have runs where they pretty much just play like potatoes, but that one run is offset by all the other good runs.

i dont even know why necro pugs want this poor druid, it cant heal minions anymore and it has worse buffs than warrior. stupid people sticking to prehistoric comps, nothing more.

Yobculture.5786:

edit: TL;DR the whole point of the meta composition is quite simply that it makes things faster, it doesn’t necessarily make things safer. Yes, even experienced players will have runs where they pretty much just play like potatoes, but that one run is offset by all the other good runs.

If “faster” is the primary consideration, I’d rather have a team that know the mechanics than people who know how to copy a build from Metabattle or QT.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Yobculture.5786:

edit: TL;DR the whole point of the meta composition is quite simply that it makes things faster, it doesn’t necessarily make things safer. Yes, even experienced players will have runs where they pretty much just play like potatoes, but that one run is offset by all the other good runs.

If “faster” is the primary consideration, I’d rather have a team that know the mechanics than people who know how to copy a build from Metabattle or QT.

I am in agreement with the fact that meta comp is not always better (if they have lack of encounter knowledge, compared to a team with inefficient class selection but have good encounter knowledge) since it relies a lot more on personal skill level, but I’m also saying that if “you already know the mechanics of the fight and you know your class why not use meta comp to do it faster?”. My original point before was quite simply to make a case for why people would use such a team composition over 4 necros 1 druid, though obviously not without bias.

In my opinion, I feel that just because 4N1D is safer doesn’t mean it’ll always be better. It just feels like a crutch for people who aren’t comfortable with mechanics… or coincidentally, a playgroup of 5 people, 4 of whom play necro and 1 who plays druid which is perfectly fine with me. Idk, I guess I’m biased because I always normally play meta comps with my guildies who I normally run fractals with, BUT I will say that I’ve had my fair share of bad experiences in both types of groups PUG-wise. I do notice necros in 4N1D groups constantly running away from me whenever I try to heal them as a condi druid however and then complaining that I don’t heal them, which is sad to say the least.

I have no strong opinion on people who copy builds from Metabattle/Qtfy, but it does pain me to see when I see druids that can’t heal which is why I pretty much solely play druid in fractals now.

Tbh the reason i stopped joining necro groups is because i almost forgot how to play the game on a decent level…… It literally reflected when i joined a group today as a chrono. 3 necros running around like chicken pewpewing and complaining about alacrity and quickness while no1 stacked on wells.
We finished 100cm but it felt like the first time i run dungeons….messy and lucklaster.

Funny though because all people I pugged over the last weeks were doing horrible dps numbers either if they play condi warrior, tempest, condi ranger, engi or any other class. Yes, there are some major numbers from some players here and there but the overall majority of T4 players is getting out-dpsed by necros – even without the usage of epidemic.
I’d rather run one minute longer – let’s face it, other groups aren’t very much faster – than picking up my pug tempest from downstate every 10 seconds because he can’t deal with the dmg of the mobs + agony.

why would you pick someone up from downstate. if they managed to get downed they are liability and ressing them just so they can die again is a huge dps loss. just solo

FrostDraco.8306:

Fractals has never been about the meta, it’s always been about knowing the fight. The only place where dps actually matters is 100 CM for saix, and my power reaper can solo clear one by auto attacking…..in shroud.

That’s two separate things. Any experienced FotM player knows the mechanics by now. Sometimes some noob(s) show up, but that’s just the pug life.

Now, considering players know the mechanics, meta comp is vastly preferable. 25 might, fury, quickness and alacrity are just that good. Sure, you can clear the content without these. But why?

“Meta” doesn’t mean “required”. It means optimal. The optimal way to clear any 5-man content in this game is to take a standard raid subsquad. Period.

Yobculture.5786:

It’s faster if you use a meta party composition and not 4N1R.

You don’t seem to understand what meta is.
Yes, the 4 condi reapers 1 druid comp, for fractals is also meta. Just for different reasons.

Feanor.2358:

“Meta” doesn’t mean “required”. It means optimal.

Not even that. “meta” means “it’s what people recommend”. Why something is recommended may change. In most cases it’s for best efficiency and clearing speed. In others it will be for making the run as easy as possible.

Sublimatio.6981:

why would you pick someone up from downstate. if they managed to get downed they are liability and ressing them just so they can die again is a huge dps loss. just solo

On your left you see the perfect example of someone who has never worked in a team setting before, and is unable to rationally partake in any group content. Now, if you would look to your left..

Astralporing.1957:

Feanor.2358:

“Meta” doesn’t mean “required”. It means optimal.

Not even that. “meta” means “it’s what people recommend”. Why something is recommended may change. In most cases it’s for best efficiency and clearing speed. In others it will be for making the run as easy as possible.

Making the run as easy as possible is also an optimization, just a different one. So this meta is also “optimal”, but in another sense. So… yeah, it does mean optimal, no matter how you’re looking at it.

But I was talking about experienced groups. For them it doesn’t make any sense to optimize something else over clear speed. You know you’ll clear the content, you’ve done it time and again, there’s no challenge there. Might as well just be efficient doing it.

Astralporing.1957:

Yobculture.5786:

It’s faster if you use a meta party composition and not 4N1R.

You don’t seem to understand what meta is.
Yes, the 4 condi reapers 1 druid comp, for fractals is also meta. Just for different reasons.

Feanor.2358:

“Meta” doesn’t mean “required”. It means optimal.

Not even that. “meta” means “it’s what people recommend”. Why something is recommended may change. In most cases it’s for best efficiency and clearing speed. In others it will be for making the run as easy as possible.

Taken out of context.

Yobculture.5786:

Astralporing.1957:

Yobculture.5786:

It’s faster if you use a meta party composition and not 4N1R.

You don’t seem to understand what meta is.
Yes, the 4 condi reapers 1 druid comp, for fractals is also meta. Just for different reasons.

Feanor.2358:

“Meta” doesn’t mean “required”. It means optimal.

Not even that. “meta” means “it’s what people recommend”. Why something is recommended may change. In most cases it’s for best efficiency and clearing speed. In others it will be for making the run as easy as possible.

Taken out of context.

4 reapers 1 druid was never meta it was a nweb friendly strat which died when they deleted the minion build.

it actually didnt die, it had crystallized and now its a glamazon ready for your t4 lfg

Unfortunately it didn’t die. There are still groups out there lfg-ing for 4N1D, and even having requirements. I don’t understand why experienced players would waste time on this, but apparently some do.

rwolf.9571:

I find it doesn’t really matter what your build and group is. Unless you are raiding.

Dungeons > Face roll
Fractals 1-50 > Face roll
Fractals 51-75> Some competence
Fractals 76-100 > Should probably run something meta.
Raids > Running a meta (or something close too) will help with a smoother run.

Haha, that one made me smile too, especially, and I’m quoting Family Guy here:“It’s funny cause it’s true.”

That being said, fractals are a steep step up from what probably 90% of the playerbase are used to from open world though. You actually need to start understanding the games mechanics.

zoomborg.9462:

Tbh the reason i stopped joining necro groups is because i almost forgot how to play the game on a decent level…… It literally reflected when i joined a group today as a chrono. 3 necros running around like chicken pewpewing and complaining about alacrity and quickness while no1 stacked on wells.
We finished 100cm but it felt like the first time i run dungeons….messy and lucklaster.

True. Was the same for me in vanilla when starting to play my guardian more in fractals instead of the mesmer. I literally start facetanking stuff because aegis. Stuff then hurt a lot when back on mesmer.

Still as many have pointed out, meta groups can have different goals. The 4N1D setup is wildly inefficient in many ways, but it’s so tanky and braindead easy that it’s perfect for those days where all you want are the shinies, especially when running with pugs. Epidemic is just to much of a condi damage multiplier in pve. Who needs rotation, positioning and so on when 4 people can literally double or tripple the groups damage output (with 25 stack limit in mind).Then again poor necros have nothing else going for them atm so…

Feanor.2358:

Unfortunately it didn’t die. There are still groups out there lfg-ing for 4N1D, and even having requirements. I don’t understand why experienced players would waste time on this, but apparently some do.

I highly dought that experienced players bother im certain that this is casul runs since this comp will never wipe and that makes it super safe. I mean it died from 100% goto comp since the update to bosses (the removal of toughness and increase in health) which made the time clears pretty much the same and the nerf to minions.

Current PvE meta? slam your head on the keyboard, did your enemy die? good job, have a beer, did it not die? either take a beer anyway or come to the forum and complain about how horrible it’s designed.

And for some reason I heard Zero Punctuation’s voice when I wrote this down

Feanor.2358:

I don’t understand why experienced players would waste time on this, but apparently some do.

The thing is, you don’t waste time. Especially not in pugs. In pugs you gain time with that because you won’t have any downstate at all compared to other group composition where it’s most likely that one of your temp will go down several times or your mesmer has a bad rotation/not optimal gear or your ps is not able to hold 25 might stacks…because it’s pugs.
Don’t make necro so bad because you don’t like the class or the playstyle or the brainafk method behind it. Necro is in a good spot when putting “pugs” and “fractals” together in one sentence.

Feanor.2358:

I don’t understand why experienced players would waste time on this

Because it’s a PUGproof meta. By running it, you don’t have to worry about whether other players you’ll get will end up being as experienced as you are or not.

Feanor.2358:

FrostDraco.8306:

Fractals has never been about the meta, it’s always been about knowing the fight. The only place where dps actually matters is 100 CM for saix, and my power reaper can solo clear one by auto attacking…..in shroud.

That’s two separate things. Any experienced FotM player knows the mechanics by now. Sometimes some noob(s) show up, but that’s just the pug life.

Now, considering players know the mechanics, meta comp is vastly preferable. 25 might, fury, quickness and alacrity are just that good. Sure, you can clear the content without these. But why?

“Meta” doesn’t mean “required”. It means optimal. The optimal way to clear any 5-man content in this game is to take a standard raid subsquad. Period.

I know what Meta means kappa. You aren’t talking to a noob.

Vinceman.4572:

Feanor.2358:

I don’t understand why experienced players would waste time on this, but apparently some do.

The thing is, you don’t waste time. Especially not in pugs. In pugs you gain time with that because you won’t have any downstate at all compared to other group composition where it’s most likely that one of your temp will go down several times or your mesmer has a bad rotation/not optimal gear or your ps is not able to hold 25 might stacks…because it’s pugs.
Don’t make necro so bad because you don’t like the class or the playstyle or the brainafk method behind it. Necro is in a good spot when putting “pugs” and “fractals” together in one sentence.

In the past. Since Nightmare was released I had very few bad pugs by just going for “cm+t4” power groups. So yeah, you definitely waste time doing the pug-proof meta.

Feanor.2358:

Vinceman.4572:

Feanor.2358:

I don’t understand why experienced players would waste time on this, but apparently some do.

The thing is, you don’t waste time. Especially not in pugs. In pugs you gain time with that because you won’t have any downstate at all compared to other group composition where it’s most likely that one of your temp will go down several times or your mesmer has a bad rotation/not optimal gear or your ps is not able to hold 25 might stacks…because it’s pugs.
Don’t make necro so bad because you don’t like the class or the playstyle or the brainafk method behind it. Necro is in a good spot when putting “pugs” and “fractals” together in one sentence.

In the past. Since Nightmare was released I had very few bad pugs by just going for “cm+t4” power groups. So yeah, you definitely waste time doing the pug-proof meta.

A Pug for T4 is different to a Pug CM
For normal T4 Pug, no matter who come, Necro are really nice and it lasts just a few minutes longer. In fact nobody dies when 4 or 5 Necros running no matter how bad they are, when you go for fastest Meta 2 bad wannabeplayers are enough to get problems.
I also run fracals with different classes but when i just want to get daily Necro is my Choice, i even run CM with him a lot of times

But as has been said, its his last place to shine….