Current State of Dungeons(profit/time)
You’re rewarded fairly good now, especially with the change to dungeon currency acquisition.
Thank you for your reply hopefully we will get more opinions on this to make a solid perspective about it .
I haven’t done dungeons yet.
But now they give out 5 gold every 8 paths. That is 0.675 gold per path. Add this to the base gold reward of dungeons and now double the token reward. This is pretty much on-par with the pre-HoT reward.
Now with OP elite specs you can do many of the paths faster. I would say your profit/time is probably slightly better than pre-HoT.
If you have a highly profitable dungeon recipe (SE p2, hotw, arah p4 etc) its amazing since you can choose what tokens you want from the achievement chest.
Otherwise the rewards are good, but its nothing close to before the dungeon nerfs
just a couple questions from a guy that is not playing atm.
OP elite specs – pre or post HoT?
dungeon recipe= dungeon rotation?
Thank you for your time by the way
just a couple questions from a guy that is not playing atm.
OP elite specs – pre or post HoT?
dungeon recipe= dungeon rotation?Thank you for your time by the way
OP elite specs = stuff like reaper, tempest… basically the new trait line every class got
dungeon recipe = dungeon recipe. Crafting recipes which let you craft specific trinkets. These can go for reasonable amounts of money.
Rewards are fine now, they weren’t even that bad before but everyone was focused on the liquid gold and was too busy looking past that for the aforementioned recipes, the dungeon specific drops and most important the materials dropped inside those dungeons.
There isn’t really such a thing as “OP elite specs” in dungeons.
You barely get more dps than before the icebow nerf from the classes themself, the thing that’s causing the powercreep are mostly breakbars being ridiculously unbalanced.
Before HoT you had to coordinate deepfreezes, now everybody just spams CC and you get a 50%(????) dps bonus
There isn’t really such a thing as “OP elite specs” in dungeons.
You barely get more dps than before the icebow nerf from the classes themself, the thing that’s causing the powercreep are mostly breakbars being ridiculously unbalanced.
Before HoT you had to coordinate deepfreezes, now everybody just spams CC and you get a 50%(????) dps bonus
All this! the breakbar is horribly unbalanced for pre hot content except for high level content.
There isn’t really such a thing as “OP elite specs” in dungeons.
You barely get more dps than before the icebow nerf from the classes themself, the thing that’s causing the powercreep are mostly breakbars being ridiculously unbalanced.
Before HoT you had to coordinate deepfreezes, now everybody just spams CC and you get a 50%(????) dps bonusAll this! the breakbar is horribly unbalanced for pre hot content except for high level content.
Naw. Just have to do it right. The quarterly patch buffed ranger shortbow a bit. Skill 5 now causes 2 seconds of daze/stun instead of 1 second. If I use it right after my Juvenile Fire Wyvern uses its Wing Buffet skill (it’s not the F2), I can take a good chunk out of a breakbar on a lot of enemies by myself in dungeons. I found this out yesterday when I did story mode on several dungeons. I don’t have the Druid elite spec unlocked and it’s not something I’d want to use anyway, since healing/support isn’t my style. Combine that with whatever my party members were using, and breakbars weren’t an issue.
(edited by Charrbeque.8729)
There isn’t really such a thing as “OP elite specs” in dungeons.
You barely get more dps than before the icebow nerf from the classes themself, the thing that’s causing the powercreep are mostly breakbars being ridiculously unbalanced.
Before HoT you had to coordinate deepfreezes, now everybody just spams CC and you get a 50%(????) dps bonusAll this! the breakbar is horribly unbalanced for pre hot content except for high level content.
Naw. Just have to do it right. The quarterly patch buffed ranger shortbow a bit. Skill 5 now causes 2 seconds of daze/stun instead of 1 second. If I use it right after my Juvenile Fire Wyvern uses its Wing Buffet skill (it’s not the F2), I can take a good chunk out of a breakbar on a lot of enemies by myself in dungeons. I found this out yesterday when I did story mode on several dungeons. I don’t have the Druid elite spec unlocked and it’s not something I’d want to use anyway, since healing/support isn’t my style. Combine that with whatever my party members were using, and breakbars weren’t an issue.
I don’t think you quite understood what we are saying, the point is that breakbars are too easy to break and the damage bonus is way too big for the little amount of effort spent
Dungeons are quite profitable now with the changes, even more so if you own the crafting recipes. It became easier to find a group also, though people are pretty clueless about dungeons nowadays.
The increased tokens as well as the additional amount from the daily actually reward those who have done dungeons often enough to / or who were simply lucky enough to drop any or multiple of the dungeon recipes.
The only thing that can take away some fun is the fact that they still no longer work on dungeon content. That might change again, though. I wouldn’t have expected this change either.
There isn’t really such a thing as “OP elite specs” in dungeons.
You barely get more dps than before the icebow nerf from the classes themself, the thing that’s causing the powercreep are mostly breakbars being ridiculously unbalanced.
Before HoT you had to coordinate deepfreezes, now everybody just spams CC and you get a 50%(????) dps bonus
You are not wrong about the breakbar. But you are so wrong about barely doing more dps than before icebow. I couldn’t find info on all profession, but for the Guardian. We used to do around 10-11k dps back before the June 2015 patch. 13-14k dps after the June 2015 patch. And now we do around 23k dps.
Not big enough power creep for you? Nor only the elite spec are giving more dps to most profession, but we also have a lot more buffs. Grace of Land, Quickness and Alacrity are very high buffs and they are all new, or for Quickness used to be very limited in quantity, while now it’s perma.
We can explode the dungeon without the breakbar. The breakbar just make things even worst.
Otherwise the rewards are good, but its nothing close to before the dungeon nerfs
What? It’s more total rewards than before for every dungeon except Arah.
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There isn’t really such a thing as “OP elite specs” in dungeons.
You barely get more dps than before the icebow nerf from the classes themself, the thing that’s causing the powercreep are mostly breakbars being ridiculously unbalanced.
Before HoT you had to coordinate deepfreezes, now everybody just spams CC and you get a 50%(????) dps bonusYou are not wrong about the breakbar. But you are so wrong about barely doing more dps than before icebow. I couldn’t find info on all profession, but for the Guardian. We used to do around 10-11k dps back before the June 2015 patch. 13-14k dps after the June 2015 patch. And now we do around 23k dps.
Not big enough power creep for you? Nor only the elite spec are giving more dps to most profession, but we also have a lot more buffs. Grace of Land, Quickness and Alacrity are very high buffs and they are all new, or for Quickness used to be very limited in quantity, while now it’s perma.
We can explode the dungeon without the breakbar. The breakbar just make things even worst.
I’m talking about dungeons, not raids, maybe read my post.
In dungeons you usually don’t have all buffs 100% of the time, and pretty much every boss except for some Arah bosses is completely burst orientated.
Icebow had a way higher burst than what most of the new elite specs will ever achieve, the thing that makes you believe your burst is higher in dungeons is the breakbars giving you pretty much a perma 50% dps bonus, since you can instantly break the bar and the boss should be dead before the dps bonus ends.
Compare kill times on bosses like lupi where breakbars play no role.
The lupi duo record before icebow nerf was 1:06, the lupi duo record after icebow nerf is 1:04
Spreadsheet DPS is a stupid argument and serves no purpose when you are talking about fights that literally last 3 seconds
I’m talking about dungeons, not raids, maybe read my post.
In dungeons you usually don’t have all buffs 100% of the time
Why not? I mean, you won’t have all buff 100% of the time in raid either, but you can have a pretty decent uptime. Buff are limited to 5 anyway that you are in raid or dungeon.
I don’t remember all the time for boss kill in dungeon, been a long time. But from what I remember most boss used to take 20-30 seconds to kill pre-hot, not 3 seconds. Even with the Icebow. The only bosses that took a very small amount of time were in low level dungeon like AC.
(edited by Thaddeus.4891)
I don’t remember all the time for boss kill in dungeon, been a long time. But from what I remember most boss used to take 20-30 seconds to kill pre-hot, not 3 seconds.
Maybe in pugs, in organised groups all bosses outside of HotW and Arah (and maybe Tazza) melted.
But then please tell me how somehow the elite specs increased class’ burst potential to reach above-icebow levels?
There is nothing that even comes close to the 150-200k damage icebow did over a period of 2,5 seconds on reasonably sized hitboxes.
Breakbars are causing the power creep you are experiencing in dungeons, not elite specs, if anything elite specs make it easier to achieve decent dps since most classes barely have a rotation anymore
I don’t remember all the time for boss kill in dungeon, been a long time. But from what I remember most boss used to take 20-30 seconds to kill pre-hot, not 3 seconds.
Maybe in pugs, in organised groups all bosses outside of HotW and Arah (and maybe Tazza) melted.
But then please tell me how somehow the elite specs increased class’ burst potential to reach above-icebow levels?
There is nothing that even comes close to the 150-200k damage icebow did over a period of 2,5 seconds on reasonably sized hitboxes.
Breakbars are causing the power creep you are experiencing in dungeons, not elite specs, if anything elite specs make it easier to achieve decent dps since most classes barely have a rotation anymore
Well, I didn’t test anything about that. But from the aerodrome I saw some 66k dps numbers on a small golem for 15sec. 66k x 2.5 second would be 165k, which is in your 150-200k damage range. That said, it’s a number that I saw on a screenshot. It’s probably full buff, which isn’t realist, but it’s also over 15sec, so over the first 2,5 second the dps would be lower. Gonna need to test it to have a good value.
But I have some difficulty to accept your 2.5 second. Without quickness (which out couldn’t always have pre-hot) it’s about 5-6 sec for the full Ice Storm attack. With Quickness, it’s 3.5-4sec.
But if I look at record run pre-hot. CoE last between 7 and 15sec depending if it’s the 1st, 2nd or 3rd fight of the path. For CoF path 1, it’s 9sec. For AC it’s 7-8 second.
My point is that 3sec is an exaggeration. Most boss even in record run used to be killed in 7-15sec. Can we reach now the same level of 3-4sec burst than before the Ice bow nerf? I don’t know. I’m pretty sure we can go near it, but I didn’t test it so I can’t tell for sure. Can we dish out more damage in 7-15sec than we used to even with the ice bow? I’m pretty sure that we can.
But it’s pretty useless conversion. We used to melt them and we still melt them. What I’m sure is that for the average pug, dungeon are a lot more faster to melt now than it used to.
Rewards are still crap compared to pre-HoT. You’ll make more gold in open world zerg farm than doing dungeons.
Thing with dungeon change is it commits you to 8 paths for you to see any return to your time investment.
In the time to do those 8 paths you could have knocked out the t4 fractal dailies and earned far more gold and much better rewards, or you could have done open world farm for much better returns.
Dungeon tours for profit are dead.
Rewards are still crap compared to pre-HoT. You’ll make more gold in open world zerg farm than doing dungeons.
Thing with dungeon change is it commits you to 8 paths for you to see any return to your time investment.
In the time to do those 8 paths you could have knocked out the t4 fractal dailies and earned far more gold and much better rewards, or you could have done open world farm for much better returns.
Dungeon tours for profit are dead.
You don’t have to commit to 8 paths to turn a profit, and you certainly will make more guaranteed money in less time from dungeons by comparison to the other modes, Fractals would beat them out if it wasn’t so heavily skewed with RNG rewards now. However it requires knowing that dungeon currency can be turned into valuable materials.
Rewards are still crap compared to pre-HoT.
Dungeon tours for profit are dead.
5g / 8 = 62 silver per path + 35s first completion plus 26s base gold = 1.23g in raw gold. This is a bit less than the 1.26 we used to get, I give you that.
However now we get 100 tokens per path instead of 60. Tokens have value, and level 70+ dungeon tokens COF+ are worth more than ever before thanks to rising ecto price.
3 level 80 paths = 120 more tokens then before. 120 tokens = 4 rares = 3.2 ecto = 1.35g = kitten per path more than before.
For every dungeon except arah we receive more rewards than before. AC is breaking even.
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I stand corrected. I was just using token stuff to mystic forge it, so I guess I overlooked the value of additional tokens.
Hopefully at some patch they’ll get Arah up to snuff, as it was my favorite dungeon.
Rewards are still crap compared to pre-HoT.
Dungeon tours for profit are dead.
5g / 8 = 62 silver per path + 35s first completion plus 26s base gold = 1.23g in raw gold. This is a bit less than the 1.26 we used to get, I give you that.
However now we get 100 tokens per path instead of 60. Tokens have value, and level 70+ dungeon tokens COF+ are worth more than ever before thanks to rising ecto price.
3 level 80 paths = 120 more tokens then before. 120 tokens = 4 rares = 3.2 ecto = 1.35g = kitten per path more than before.
For every dungeon except arah we receive more rewards than before. AC is breaking even.
And that’s just the ecto. Leather which is also stupidly valuable wasn’t put into that equation.
Yup and if you have a good dungeon recipe, then it’s even better. But that’s rare, so we shouldn’t count it here.
Rewards are still crap compared to pre-HoT.
Dungeon tours for profit are dead.
5g / 8 = 62 silver per path + 35s first completion plus 26s base gold = 1.23g in raw gold. This is a bit less than the 1.26 we used to get, I give you that.
However now we get 100 tokens per path instead of 60. Tokens have value, and level 70+ dungeon tokens COF+ are worth more than ever before thanks to rising ecto price.
3 level 80 paths = 120 more tokens then before. 120 tokens = 4 rares = 3.2 ecto = 1.35g = kitten per path more than before.
For every dungeon except arah we receive more rewards than before. AC is breaking even.
And that’s just the ecto. Leather which is also stupidly valuable wasn’t put into that equation.
And then there’s other kinds of low-tier materials which you get which are also worth quite a bit.
It’s amazing how many more salvageable blues/greens you get in dungeons compared to fractals, and how quickly their value can add up.
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Hmmm for actual rewards you should have played dungeons straight after the nerf, when the prices for dungeon recipes as well as the rare backs in coe and arah skyrocketed, now doing dungeons actually feels unrewarding compared to the time when doing coe was the cof p1 farm 2.0 <_<
But ye, as long as you don’t pug cm I think you gonna have a good time when comparing rewards to the time spent.
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