Guild Wars 2

As it seems there is no intention from the devs to add such a tool to the game or at least remove the threats on accounts using them, and I think this is a very poor decision as DPS meters solve a problem many people complain about.

Think about it for a second, why are raids not accessible for new players?
Truth is, because there is no DPS meter. Just to clarify, I don’t refer to only a DPS number but also boon uptime, heals, resses, damage taken etc. that allows you to see clearly who is dying from what, who does their job and who doesn’t beyond just DPS.

And why is that, that the lack of DPS meters push out new players?
People in LFG groups mostly just want the fast, least wipes as possible clear of whatever they’re going to do. As such they ask for people that know what they’re doing. The only gauge of knowing what you’re doing is how many Legendary Insights you have, Kill proofs, achievement points and so on.

ALL of these things are based on raw time spent in game. Think about it, for each 9 legendary insights you need at least one week spent already SUCCESSFULLY raiding. It does not gauge how many training runs you may had, or maybe you just got carried to get the kills, but only how long have you been raiding.

So what DPS meters offer, is a way for new players to prove they are an asset to the team, and if someone blames them for not having 9000 stacks of LI they can prove they do their job.
If anything, new players need to fight for the addition of adding DPS meters to the game so that they won’t need to suffer getting kicked simply because they did not start raiding 3 months ago, but 3 weeks ago, even if they perform better than people who’ve been raiding longer.

One more thing, not about LFG but still coming to raid accessibility. Once DPS meters are a thing, orginized guilds can give numbers of a bottom number DPS or quickness uptime or healing or whatever it is you’re supposed to be doing, that you, as a new player can aim for to know that you’re good enough to start raiding.
It allows you to see your weak points and improve upon them.

Also wanted to mention lastly that there basically exists a DPS meter in-game. WUT?? Yes. It’s called the combat log. The difference is that the combat log is completely unreadable and only serves to see how much a specific skill did in case you’re curious. All that basically is asked for is a revamped, readable, combat log.

omho combat logging to file should be a thing. Takes development burden off of Anet and allows us to customize parsers as necessary.

For those who missed it, this is the post that the OP is referring to

DPS meter in game

Gaile Gray
ArenaNet Communications Manager

Hey guys,
We have a lot of tools that we use in the development of the game, but not all of them are available or supportable in the live game. Adding tools to the game that would require continual updating and maintenance would not be the best focus for the team. So while we’re aware that some players would like to see an official DPS meter — and clearly the community is divided on this topic — you should be aware that the team does not intend to add one to the game.

If you notice, the objection appears to be to the continual updating and maintenance required.

BeLZedaR.4790:

One more thing, not about LFG but still coming to raid accessibility. Once DPS meters are a thing, orginized guilds can give numbers of a bottom number DPS or quickness uptime or healing or whatever it is you’re supposed to be doing, that you, as a new player can aim for to know that you’re good enough to start raiding.
It allows you to see your weak points and improve upon them.

Also wanted to mention lastly that there basically exists a DPS meter in-game. WUT?? Yes. It’s called the combat log. The difference is that the combat log is completely unreadable and only serves to see how much a specific skill did in case you’re curious. All that basically is asked for is a revamped, readable, combat log.

Are you talking about a personal only dps/buff meter? To improve and see a persons own weak points they don’t need to see everyone else, only their own. Player A doesn’t need to see player B’s dps to work on his or her own goals.

I agree the combat log is a bit clunky, but I’d much rather have the combat log that only shows personal numbers then a group/raid wide DPS meter.

That appears to be part of the objection, the extreme divide of the community is another thing she mentions specifically.

They have no intention of implementing a dps meter. They locked the thread about that, starting a new thread to get around that lock is against the forum rules.

The problem is the subject. ArenaNet doesn’t need to implement a DPS meter. What they need is a better combat log – some stuff isn’t even displayed. Then they could maybe show other group members in the log. With the log in order, they only need to support writing it to a text file, which should be trivial. Altogether, that allows for external analysis tools without getting their hands dirty.

As for the currently available tools, only the one that pulls the log from memory is technically against the rules. The only risk in using it however is trusting a executable. ArenaNet doesn’t actually ban for trivial things like that.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

For those who missed it, this is the post that the OP is referring to

DPS meter in game

Gaile Gray
ArenaNet Communications Manager

Hey guys,
We have a lot of tools that we use in the development of the game, but not all of them are available or supportable in the live game. Adding tools to the game that would require continual updating and maintenance would not be the best focus for the team. So while we’re aware that some players would like to see an official DPS meter — and clearly the community is divided on this topic — you should be aware that the team does not intend to add one to the game.

If you notice, the objection appears to be to the continual updating and maintenance required.

Which is why we should have combat logging to file. It doesn’t require continual maintence since it’s a function that the game does already.

Seriously just give us a option to dump the combat chat tab to a .txt file

Just a flesh wound.3589:

For those who missed it, this is the post that the OP is referring to

DPS meter in game

Gaile Gray
ArenaNet Communications Manager

Hey guys,
We have a lot of tools that we use in the development of the game, but not all of them are available or supportable in the live game. Adding tools to the game that would require continual updating and maintenance would not be the best focus for the team. So while we’re aware that some players would like to see an official DPS meter — and clearly the community is divided on this topic — you should be aware that the team does not intend to add one to the game.

If you notice, the objection appears to be to the continual updating and maintenance required.

I think that objection is easily overcome if they allow the combat log to be written in a text file then it’s up to the community to figure everything else.

Unless of course writing something to the disk isn’t within what the game client is allowed to do, if I recall there was some talk about text files in the old discussion about build saving. There are “issues” if they allowed saving builds to a text file, like in GW1, so maybe the client can’t be given access to text files so easily.

maddoctor.2738:

Unless of course writing something to the disk isn’t within what the game client is allowed to do, if I recall there was some talk about text files in the old discussion about build saving. There are “issues” if they allowed saving builds to a text file, like in GW1, so maybe the client can’t be given access to text files so easily.

I cannot understand how the game could have issues with writing to a text file. Writing txt files is something that freshman 101 programming courses do.

I’m not familiar with GW1’s issues, but I imagine the problems there might have been with people modifying the build files, which could cause all sorts of errors if the game tried to load the modified files.
Combat logging doesn’t require the game to read the file later so the above is a non-issue.

maddoctor.2738:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

For those who missed it, this is the post that the OP is referring to

DPS meter in game

Gaile Gray
ArenaNet Communications Manager

Hey guys,
We have a lot of tools that we use in the development of the game, but not all of them are available or supportable in the live game. Adding tools to the game that would require continual updating and maintenance would not be the best focus for the team. So while we’re aware that some players would like to see an official DPS meter — and clearly the community is divided on this topic — you should be aware that the team does not intend to add one to the game.

If you notice, the objection appears to be to the continual updating and maintenance required.

I think that objection is easily overcome if they allow the combat log to be written in a text file then it’s up to the community to figure everything else.

Unless of course writing something to the disk isn’t within what the game client is allowed to do, if I recall there was some talk about text files in the old discussion about build saving. There are “issues” if they allowed saving builds to a text file, like in GW1, so maybe the client can’t be given access to text files so easily.

Client can edit and write game settings to XML files and also can create logs. Maybe the way ingame chat works makes it impossible or a pain in the kitten to do.

It’s not a technical limitation. It’s a design decision and one I whole-heartedly agree with.
A DPS meter does not belong in GW2 imho.

Can all these DPS Meter threads please be merged and sent to the Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids forum so we don’t have to see them any more? Since they’re the only ones who care?

Can we nuke these threads?

DeanBB.4268:

Can all these DPS Meter threads please be merged and sent to the Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids forum so we don’t have to see them any more? Since they’re the only ones who care?

The merged thread got locked with Gaile’s post… While I would be happy too see the DPS meter requests go away (especially with the recent A-net post). Merging isn’t really an option anymore.

If anyone complains about raids requirements (LI, kill proof, etc.) and is against a DPS meter (+more stats) you should just ignore that person.

Rejecting the solution to a problem they have does not make sense.

As said. We should at least get a personal DPS meter + stats.

BeLZedaR.4790:

As it seems there is no intention from the devs to add such a tool to the game or at least remove the threats on accounts using them, and I think this is a very poor decision as DPS meters solve a problem many people complain about.

Think about it for a second, why are raids not accessible for new players?
Truth is, because there is no DPS meter. Just to clarify, I don’t refer to only a DPS number but also boon uptime, heals, resses, damage taken etc. that allows you to see clearly who is dying from what, who does their job and who doesn’t beyond just DPS.

And why is that, that the lack of DPS meters push out new players?
People in LFG groups mostly just want the fast, least wipes as possible clear of whatever they’re going to do. As such they ask for people that know what they’re doing. The only gauge of knowing what you’re doing is how many Legendary Insights you have, Kill proofs, achievement points and so on.

ALL of these things are based on raw time spent in game. Think about it, for each 9 legendary insights you need at least one week spent already SUCCESSFULLY raiding. It does not gauge how many training runs you may had, or maybe you just got carried to get the kills, but only how long have you been raiding.

So what DPS meters offer, is a way for new players to prove they are an asset to the team, and if someone blames them for not having 9000 stacks of LI they can prove they do their job.
If anything, new players need to fight for the addition of adding DPS meters to the game so that they won’t need to suffer getting kicked simply because they did not start raiding 3 months ago, but 3 weeks ago, even if they perform better than people who’ve been raiding longer.

One more thing, not about LFG but still coming to raid accessibility. Once DPS meters are a thing, orginized guilds can give numbers of a bottom number DPS or quickness uptime or healing or whatever it is you’re supposed to be doing, that you, as a new player can aim for to know that you’re good enough to start raiding.
It allows you to see your weak points and improve upon them.

Also wanted to mention lastly that there basically exists a DPS meter in-game. WUT?? Yes. It’s called the combat log. The difference is that the combat log is completely unreadable and only serves to see how much a specific skill did in case you’re curious. All that basically is asked for is a revamped, readable, combat log.

I barely can remember any examples from other games where DPS meter helped anyone to get in a pug raid. But I remember countless examples when DPS meter was used as an instrument to find a scapegoat and start drama.

Neox.3497:

If anyone complains about raids requirements (LI, kill proof, etc.) and is against a DPS meter (+more stats) you should just ignore that person.

Rejecting the solution to a problem they have does not make sense.

Wow, that’s a pretty bold statement and extremely close minded statement. There are multiple sides to this discussion. Ignoring a person that disagrees with you on made up “requirements” and the necessity of a DPS meter does nothing to help talk and figure out a mutually agreeable solution.

Rejecting the solution to a problem someone has does not make sense that is true. However this is not “the” solution. This is “a possible” solution that comes with it’s own set of draw backs.

Pro or against a DPS meter, I am very happy they gave an official response to the subject. I believe it would be equally important to have an official response to whether or not this 3rd party DPS meter is a bannable offense?

Please be very clear on what is excepted of the raiding community!

DPS meters will not make raids more accessible. That’s incredibly backwards logic. Besides, Anet already said they won’t be implementing one so this thread is borderline spam

I would say DPS-Meter is not the right Word for what those Tools do. Combat Log would be more precice since the DPS Meters evolved over the Years of MMO Development that they measure much more ethan just DPS and this is true for even the more Basic DPS-Meters today. Things like warcraftlogs are even more detailed and have so much information that you can see when you die and why.

People here wanting DPS-Meter don’t just want to see DPS, they want something that can show you stuff like Boon and Buff uptime, Scholar uptime what mechanic hit you and how often etc etc. The Call for a DPS-Meter here is more or less a Call for a Combat Log that doesn’t suck.

Crinn.7864:

I cannot understand how the game could have issues with writing to a text file. Writing txt files is something that freshman 101 programming courses do.

Those same freshmen tend to ignore little necessary details which can increase the complexity. Writing to a text file is easy. Logging in a friendly, usable, robust manner requires some additional work:

• What format do you store the logs in?
  • the human-readable format shown in-game
  • XML
  • JSON
  • CSV
  • proprietary, documented binary format
  • something else?
• Where do the logs go?
• Do you write multiple logs or just append to one, large log?
• If multiple:
  • when do you roll into a new log?
  • what naming format do you use?
• How quickly do the logs grow?
  • can you let the log output accumulate indefinitely?
  • if not, how do you determine when to prune old data?
• Do the log files need to be accessible in real-time?
• Do any of the above need to be configurable?
  • in-game configuration settings
  • text-based configuration files in the game’s directory
  • what should the default settings be?

…and I’m sure I missed some things.

Keep them coming. As much as people hate the idea, we have gotten many things over the years which weren’t supposed to be in the game originally. Raids and an expansion come to mind.

You do not have to like that part of GW2, but there is a huge drive to min-max and push the boundries as far as possible within the community. The game is designed that way just as much as it is designed for casual play.
GW2 provides many choices on which builds to pick, which traits to use, which gear to run, which weapons to set and so on. Many variables and options.
While we didn’t have any accurate way to test our builds for such a long time. The test golems are just a start as they do not show any combat variables. It is simply the perfect scenario.

What would happen to raids if this got introduced?
Some who have been raiding for a while might find themselves getting excluded more often as they never performed that well to begin with, while others who are new might impress with their performance compared to others.

Would it make raids more accessible?
I doubt it. It would change things up a little and open people’s minds towards running different builds, exclude less people simply because they aren’t a tempest.
It might even make raids a little more accessible, actually. I still feel like we would then see stuff like this “LFM X, X LI, X Gear, X class, X amount of DPS or kick”. You will no longer be able to fake your way in anymore also.

Do I want to see it still?
Certainly. It is a feature people would love for the convinience and facts it provides.
I understand why some hate it with a passion and I am also aware of the reasons why. However, it is a bit weird to say it would lower the accessability of raids now that people would have to show their damage numbers. Those with good numbers but little experience will finally have a way to show that. They wouldn’t be against it in the first place.
Others who are aware of their own low performance dislike that idea of course. I would say they have no business being in a party if they do not meet any requirements people set either. I know how unpopular that idea is.

It would be a tool, and having tools to help improve your class is always a good thing. I agree, DPS Meter no, but Combat log that shows heaps more, for sure. ESO has one and its really handy.

Simple, a raid only, teamwide dps tool.
No exclusion. No effct outside raids. Just a teamwide dps counter.
Preferably split in condition and rough damage. That way you can tell if a team is short on condition or power damage

^—— Do you mean a tool that would just put everyone’s DPS in a pile and show how much the entire raid team is doing?

Otherwise I don’t see how that would limit exclusion in raids any more then the countless other DPS request/tools people are asking for

Miku.6297:

^—— Do you mean a tool that would just put everyone’s DPS in a pile and show how much the entire raid team is doing?

Otherwise I don’t see how that would limit exclusion in raids any more then the countless other DPS request/tools people are asking for

Yes, teamwide dps. Because you cant look at dps alone. Warriors dont do peak damage, but their PS role is almost indispensable. Without them team dps will drop.
So team dps is more important than individual dps. By a teamwide dps you can also tell whether you have space to slack or need to pick up the pase. Lets say a team kills the VG on the last second. Then the team knows on their next encounter they need to stay above that.

The “big three”, PS Warrior, Druid, Chronomancer won’t be affected by any DPS meter because everyone running those knows that when used together they triple the DPS of the entire group.

The 4 DPS slots are the only ones that will be affected by an individual DPS meter. Any group that kicks the “big 3” because they aren’t doing “enough dps” are just stupid.

maddoctor.2738:

The “big three”, PS Warrior, Druid, Chronomancer won’t be affected by any DPS meter because everyone running those knows that when used together they triple the DPS of the entire group.

The 4 DPS slots are the only ones that will be affected by an individual DPS meter. Any group that kicks the “big 3” because they aren’t doing “enough dps” are just stupid.

Except when your chrono has a terrible rotation, or your warrior forgets phalanx strength. A DPS meter isn’t necessarily just dps, it’s more like, here are numbers you find relevant in an easy to read real-time format, just most of them are designed to increase dps in one way or another.

You can measure the druid’s dps, and graph his heal over time on the same graph as well as a comparison to the total available heals(missing hp from players) at a given time which would tell you the druid’s contribution to maintaining scholar buffs as well as personal dps and you could also have small boxes showing % fury uptime on a given sub-group as well as average gotl stacks. Can even have % on spotter uptime and frost spirit/sun/whatever. Glyph of empowerment uptime? Total duration of condis ticking on players(given that druids can carry much of the condi cleanse in groups). Contribution to breakbars. Contribution of certain conditions(burning, vulnerability, bleed, etc…) that can affect player multipliers. And probably some other things I’ve missed.

Can even dump all of this into a text file that leaves it up to a player whether they want to share it with others after a fight. Or only dump it into a file to reduce processing on servers/computers.

maddoctor.2738:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

For those who missed it, this is the post that the OP is referring to

DPS meter in game

Gaile Gray
ArenaNet Communications Manager

Hey guys,
We have a lot of tools that we use in the development of the game, but not all of them are available or supportable in the live game. Adding tools to the game that would require continual updating and maintenance would not be the best focus for the team. So while we’re aware that some players would like to see an official DPS meter — and clearly the community is divided on this topic — you should be aware that the team does not intend to add one to the game.

If you notice, the objection appears to be to the continual updating and maintenance required.

I think that objection is easily overcome if they allow the combat log to be written in a text file then it’s up to the community to figure everything else.

Unless of course writing something to the disk isn’t within what the game client is allowed to do, if I recall there was some talk about text files in the old discussion about build saving. There are “issues” if they allowed saving builds to a text file, like in GW1, so maybe the client can’t be given access to text files so easily.

Screenshots.

Those are written to disk. Writing combat logs to files should be well within reason.

ATMAvatar.5749:

Crinn.7864:

I cannot understand how the game could have issues with writing to a text file. Writing txt files is something that freshman 101 programming courses do.

Those same freshmen tend to ignore little necessary details which can increase the complexity. Writing to a text file is easy. Logging in a friendly, usable, robust manner requires some additional work:

• What format do you store the logs in?
  • the human-readable format shown in-game
  • XML
  • JSON
  • CSV
  • proprietary, documented binary format
  • something else?
• Where do the logs go?
• Do you write multiple logs or just append to one, large log?
• If multiple:
  • when do you roll into a new log?
  • what naming format do you use?
• How quickly do the logs grow?
  • can you let the log output accumulate indefinitely?
  • if not, how do you determine when to prune old data?
• Do the log files need to be accessible in real-time?
• Do any of the above need to be configurable?
  • in-game configuration settings
  • text-based configuration files in the game’s directory
  • what should the default settings be?

…and I’m sure I missed some things.

Seriously?
Answer:
You use .txt files, with the timecode for the filename. logging to file starts on combat start and the file is closed on combat exit. You write to the file in real time. (why on earth would you store log data in memory?)

formatting is arbitrary. I’m sure the playerbase can figure whatever format anet feels like using.

You don’t need config files. You don’t need to worry about user settings. You are just dumping data to a text file.

Here I’ll give you an example from another game on what a combat log files looks like.

filename: “combat_2015-04-30_22_24_20_831073.txt”
snippet of content:
[22:33:14.743] Crinnhord] [Rhyeja] [Bleeding (Flechette Round) {2277183070404889}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -resist {836045448945507}) <1>
[22:33:14.758] Rhyeja] [Crinnhord] [Assault {898601647603712}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (537* energy {836045448940874}) <1075>
[22:33:15.218] Crinnhord] [Rhyeja] [Bleeding (Vital Shot) {2115340112756992}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (504 internal {836045448940876}) <504>

Of course gw2 would probably use different formatting and whatnot, but you get the gist.

Miku.6297:

Neox.3497:

If anyone complains about raids requirements (LI, kill proof, etc.) and is against a DPS meter (+more stats) you should just ignore that person.

Rejecting the solution to a problem they have does not make sense.

Wow, that’s a pretty bold statement and extremely close minded statement. There are multiple sides to this discussion. Ignoring a person that disagrees with you on made up “requirements” and the necessity of a DPS meter does nothing to help talk and figure out a mutually agreeable solution.

Rejecting the solution to a problem someone has does not make sense that is true. However this is not “the” solution. This is “a possible” solution that comes with it’s own set of draw backs.

If they have a better solution sure they can say that. But it seems like they completely ingore that this helps with their problem.

What do you want? Get kicked because of your class/low LIs or because you are actually bad?

I could imagine that this would make raiding more successfull which means less wipes which means less frustration and less toxic players.

There will probably be more kicking but better kick the underperforming players (if they do not improve) than fail over and over and make all 10 players sad.

Crinn.7864:

omho combat logging to file should be a thing. Takes development burden off of Anet and allows us to customize parsers as necessary.

yes please

Neox.3497:

What do you want? Get kicked because of your class/low LIs or because you are actually bad?

Getting kicked because you are actually bad is at least reasonable because the kick comes in response of the performance rather than prejudice or the LI BS.

Right now when a group performs poorly, people start blaming the group and its likely that the group dissolves because of the poor performance and there is no information whats actually going on. Some might say that ignorance is bliss but the only effect that ignorance has on raid group now is LI bullcrap, class discrimination, players who don’t improve, drama and dissolving groups.
Getting information about the performance in the fight would help deal with quite a lot of this points. A lot of people would also get a shock ( like in “wait, I’m doing twice the damage on the DPS golem as on the actual fight wtf” ) and they can see that there is still room for improvement for them.

Crinn.7864:

(why on earth would you store log data in memory?)

Writing to the harddisk is very slow.
If the combatlog would write everything to a log even things from other players (which i’m not sure if the client has even access to…) and you have big groups fighting it would be incredibly slow to call the harddisk on every entry in the log. It takes very little time to write in RAM but it takes ~10,000 times longer to write on the harddisk. There is a reason why operating systems try to buffer data in different locations which are faster to access while a process is running.
But if you store the logs in RAM first and then write it to the harddisk in a bigger bulk it would be much more efficient because there is much less overhead.
Maybe you understand why things get stored in RAM first after reading this…

Tornupto.2304:

Crinn.7864:

(why on earth would you store log data in memory?)

Writing to the harddisk is very slow.
If the combatlog would write everything to a log even things from other players (which i’m not sure if the client has even access to…) and you have big groups fighting it would be incredibly slow to call the harddisk on every entry in the log. It takes very little time to write in RAM but it takes ~10,000 times longer to write on the harddisk. There is a reason why operating systems try to buffer data in different locations which are faster to access while a process is running.
But if you store the logs in RAM first and then write it to the harddisk in a bigger bulk it would be much more efficient because there is much less overhead.
Maybe you understand why things get stored in RAM first after reading this…

thats why every other successful MMO with a combat log system (basically all of them) wrote directly to hard disk?
stop pretending its that complicated, the same methods have been done for half a decade easily with no issues.

Tornupto.2304:

Crinn.7864:

(why on earth would you store log data in memory?)

Writing to the harddisk is very slow.
If the combatlog would write everything to a log even things from other players (which i’m not sure if the client has even access to…) and you have big groups fighting it would be incredibly slow to call the harddisk on every entry in the log. It takes very little time to write in RAM but it takes ~10,000 times longer to write on the harddisk. There is a reason why operating systems try to buffer data in different locations which are faster to access while a process is running.
But if you store the logs in RAM first and then write it to the harddisk in a bigger bulk it would be much more efficient because there is much less overhead.
Maybe you understand why things get stored in RAM first after reading this…

But gw2 has historically had trouble with excessive RAM usage, I doubt Anet wants to be pushing that even for something as trivial as text. Writing straight to disk only consumes disk bandwidth, which isn’t a issue.

Also I don’t understand why people seem to assume that combat log implies logging everyone else’s stuff. Logging a entire zerg would be asinine. (Why would you even want to do that?)

I advocate the SW:TOR style combat log that logs everything that occurs to you and just you. All your buffs, boons, healing taken, healing done, damage taken, damage done, condi’s received and applied, etc. By not writing everyone elses stuff, the write speed is a non-issue. Raid groups wanting to see the entire raid would just create parsers that would connect to a parsing server, thus making group logging a “opt in” rather than a “everyone can see your kitten without your consent”

I didn’t say that its not possible, but you should buffer it before you write it on the disk. If you write everything in the moment it occurs it might cause problems with the performance. It doesn’t need to be the entire log that is buffered, but you maybe should only write it on the disk once a a second or every other second but not who knows how many times a second.

Given that they have said meters would be create undue stress on developmental resources, I think a better use of this thread might be to come up with creative ways they could implement that might provide personal improvement/performance measurement or metric tools they might be able to add into the game that wouldn’t cause that stress.

The training golem is an obvious step in that direction. What else could they add?

Maybe a group training golem that guilds can build in their halls? How about taking it a step further and give us a “danger room” where we can program waves of enemies (or specific bosses) to attack in a controlled environment with a group meter or other evaluation method?

There are a lot of fun (and useful) things they could add to the game. Let’s see what the community can actually come up with – and be productive rather than argue about this.

^^ Excellent point … if there is anything this game lacks, it’s a learning curve for people wanting to get into instanced content. The first place any player sees the severity and frequency of the ‘hard parts’ of instanced content is in the instanced content itself. I think that’s a massive failure.

Personally, I don’t want to be the noob that causes failure or hardship, but if I want to instance in a team, I have little choice. That’s a real turn off; no one wants to be that person. Even if it only takes one time to learn it, I’m still that noob in the first time that doesn’t know where to stand or when to CC, etc … maybe that’s just me but if Anet wants more participation, they should think about that, especially if they want to continue to market the game as casual-friendly.

I don’t see how accessibility to raids is related to monitoring damage with DPS meters. I think it’s about player comfort levels. Personally, I think that the mini dungeon daily should be one of those places where Anet could provide this training and experience.

Blaeys.3102:

I think a better use of this thread might be to come up with creative ways they could implement that might provide personal improvement/performance measurement or metric tools they might be able to add into the game that wouldn’t cause that stress.

You mean like dumping a text log file?

It’s literally the lowest development cost, and lowest performance cost thing that they could possibly do.

Blaeys.3102:

I think a better use of this thread might be to come up with creative ways they could implement that might provide personal improvement/performance measurement or metric tools they might be able to add into the game that wouldn’t cause that stress.

Just this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5g3pmo/no_one_wants_meters_what_they_want_are_logs/

maddoctor.2738:

Just this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5g3pmo/no_one_wants_meters_what_they_want_are_logs/

Which is basically the same thing. Someone makes a parser and here is your DPS meter.

Actually, the more people I see using this “Unofficial DPS Meter”, the more exclusionary I’ve seen pick-up-groups become. There’s a memory-editing version floating around out there which can inspect you and also monitor the damage of everyone in the group. If you’ve noticed it harder to join a group, this is why.

So you can say, “DPS Meters are not bad!” and “They help people!” but in reality I’ve observed the opposite effect.

Nokaru.7831:

So you can say, “DPS Meters are not bad!” and “They help people!” but in reality I’ve observed the opposite effect.

That’s because both of those statements are incomplete. It’s “DPS Meters are not bad for me!” and “They help some people!”.

Though yeah, i don’t know how one of the tools meant to exclude people from groups is going to increase accessibility.

Nokaru.7831:

There’s a memory-editing version floating around out there which can inspect you and also monitor the damage of everyone in the group. If you’ve noticed it harder to join a group, this is why.

It may be able to display everyones damage, but it cannot read those numbers by itself. The other groupmembers need the same DPS Meter for that feature to work. Those DPS Meters are just communicating. Btw: as long as it only reads something its not ‘editing’ anything.
And in general i’ve only seen one group using such a DPS Meter so far and they only asked me if i want to share my numbers. I don’t even have that DPS Meter so the answer was no anyways. Did they kick for not sharing? Not at all.

Nokaru.7831:

If you’ve noticed it harder to join a group, this is why.

You mean they see your average DPS somehow and then not inviting you to their group? Is there such a number stored somewhere?

Though yeah, i don’t know how one of the tools meant to exclude people from groups is going to increase accessibility.

Is there a magical dps number attached to you that others can read so they can exclude you from their groups?

Tornupto.2304:

It may be able to display everyones damage, but it cannot read those numbers by itself. The other groupmembers need the same DPS Meter for that feature to work. Those DPS Meters are just communicating. Btw: as long as it only reads something its not ‘editing’ anything.

I’m not talking about a memory reader I’m talking about a memory editor. There’s currently three types of these programs floating around: Pixel scanners, memory readers, and memory editors. The “editor” (aka “hack”) is able to exposes data not normally readable. This program is able to view your gear (runes and everything), and also your damage whether or not you have this program installed on your end.

Are you sure that your client even knows what equipment others have? I don’t think so. Damage numbers of other players on some random targets? Why should the client know that. Useless overhead imo, so why should Anet give the client that information?
Atm you haven’t even given a single proof that such tools exist. As long as you cannot provide a proof for that i would count your claim as false.

Tornupto.2304:

Are you sure that your client even knows what equipment others have?

Client can access that information in a spectator mode in spvp. If for some reason “spectating” happens outside of spvp and someone found out how to get all this stuff to work… or its all just a scary conspiracy to keep snowflakes away.

Tornupto.2304:

Are you sure that your client even knows what equipment others have?

Just imagine if your client knew what everyone around had equipped when fighting world bosses. It would take a super computer to keep all those calculations