Guild Wars 2

Seen this in LFG.

Discuss.

Don’t like it? Don’t join. Simple stuff.

I can honestly say I have not yet seen it.
I think you’re over excaggerating for now. It might become more normal later,
but by then, why wouldn’t you have a dpsmeter if not for the sake of being pro,
but for the sake of justing wanting to know if you’re carrying or being carried?

As wasabi said, don’t like it, don’t join it. Feel free to make your own parties. or join a raiding guild, like RTI. DPS meters have and will always be a ‘recommended, but not required tool’ because it can only be useful and not obstruct your gameplay

RIP raiding on mac client.

Looked many times in LFG this week. Never seen this

sakura.4179:

Seen this in LFG.

Discuss.

Which one?
What would it bring for the group if you have one and nobody can see the numbers you see. Next step would be: “Streaming required.”

Probably a fake or a humorous/joke lfg.

sakura.4179:

Seen this in LFG.

Discuss.

Their group, their choice.

You don’t like it, form you own group / join one without the req.

I have seen one lfg requiring bdgm, imo if you want to see other ppl’s dps just get arc instead of bdgm. But it is their group, their requirements so if you don’t like it then don’t join

MrTJpwnz.4710:

I have seen one lfg requiring bdgm, imo if you want to see other ppl’s dps just get arc instead of bdgm. But it is their group, their requirements so if you don’t like it then don’t join

Yeah until everyone and their mother requires them, just like with LI. Make own group? Yeah, i did. Guess what? People have been complaining that LI requirement i put were too low and nobody wanted to join because of it. The moment i put them higher, the group filled.
Same will happen with dps meters. Anet should have never allow them in game. It adds nothing but toxicity to raiding.

dps meters are a tool, its the people using them irresponsibly who are toxic. not the tool.

its too bad we dont have better methods to weed out toxic players without forfeiting our own ability to play. not that i have ideas on how to fix that or anything.

Cynz.9437:

MrTJpwnz.4710:

I have seen one lfg requiring bdgm, imo if you want to see other ppl’s dps just get arc instead of bdgm. But it is their group, their requirements so if you don’t like it then don’t join

Yeah until everyone and their mother requires them, just like with LI. Make own group? Yeah, i did. Guess what? People have been complaining that LI requirement i put were too low and nobody wanted to join because of it. The moment i put them higher, the group filled.
Same will happen with dps meters. Anet should have never allow them in game. It adds nothing but toxicity to raiding.

but everyone and their mother does not require them. and if that does happen you can always form your own group. seeing as lfg doesnt require you to have it.

It’s a non-issue. There are still plenty of lfg’s without a dps meter requirement. And even if they all started requiring one, people are always free to make their own posting with whatever (or lack thereof) requirements they want.

Cynz.9437:

MrTJpwnz.4710:

I have seen one lfg requiring bdgm, imo if you want to see other ppl’s dps just get arc instead of bdgm. But it is their group, their requirements so if you don’t like it then don’t join

Yeah until everyone and their mother requires them, just like with LI. Make own group? Yeah, i did. Guess what? People have been complaining that LI requirement i put were too low and nobody wanted to join because of it. The moment i put them higher, the group filled.
Same will happen with dps meters. Anet should have never allow them in game. It adds nothing but toxicity to raiding.

If you can pull your own weight in dps, then there’s harm to getting a dps meter. The people fighting the most against them are the ones that would get kicked if people knew how badly they were playing.

Not seen dps meters in lfg yet.

Discuss.

Had eggs and bacon for breakfast.

Discuss.

Actually I have seen it a few times. Moreover, it’s not necessarily a bad thing mainly because if you are relying on one team member to give you that information, you’re really relying on them to tell the truth. Also, pending on which meter you use, the figures can be wildly off. For example, the other night I was raiding on my PS. One guy started complaining that my dps was less than that of the chrono whereas another person disputed it and said I was actually 3rd highest dps in the group.

So sadly if you want the full truth and these meters are going to be used more and more, it is beneficial to use them yourself. You simply cannot rely on other people, especially in a pug, to give you the true data.

While I find dps meters useful, I knew there would be a big downside to using them and this happens in every mmo that allows them. I’m starting to think ANET is better off blanket banning them all.

technically its allowed for them to do that but i can assure you if people do get to the point they are harassing you using it your free to report them.

use the tools right no problem, abuse them and you might get in trouble for the bad behavior instead of the tool itself.

as a side note never 100% trust 3rd party tools ;-P

DPS meters are superior in every way over LI requirements. A new player can do the same dps as an experienced player, but there is a game limit of 13 LI per week. A group requirement of 200LI is impossible unless the player actually play raids 15 weeks or more, which given the trouble of finding groups is a much more toxic problem than reaching any dps requirement that a group want.

Of course they could remove dps meters and LI, and raid titles (or we get the situation as with unclean title and cm 100 fractal), and the API key for gw2 efficiency stats, and AP (which was used as a requirement in dungeons back in the days), and we might end up where groups can’t put up toxic requirements (except that they can simply require that players are part of “good” guilds).

Creating a toxic free pug environment is a hard game design problem, and I am unconvinced that dps meters are in any way effecting the problem in a negative way.

Anet has allowed them as tools for self-improvement. If too many groups will start to require them, and/or use them as tools to check on others, the toxicity attached to the meters will grow. If the toxicity will grow, the Anet may end up reversing their original decision on allowing their use.
So, people that use them, be careful and use them in moderation.

Mitch.4781:

Actually I have seen it a few times. Moreover, it’s not necessarily a bad thing mainly because if you are relying on one team member to give you that information, you’re really relying on them to tell the truth. Also, pending on which meter you use, the figures can be wildly off. For example, the other night I was raiding on my PS. One guy started complaining that my dps was less than that of the chrono whereas another person disputed it and said I was actually 3rd highest dps in the group.

So sadly if you want the full truth and these meters are going to be used more and more, it is beneficial to use them yourself. You simply cannot rely on other people, especially in a pug, to give you the true data.

While I find dps meters useful, I knew there would be a big downside to using them and this happens in every mmo that allows them. I’m starting to think ANET is better off blanket banning them all.

I’ll argue that this kind of problem would happen regardless of the DPS meter. I’ve seen bad commanders that immediately blame the wrong person just because they were the last person to join or seem like the newest, even though it’s some other guy messing up constantly. There’s also the pug commanders that think they know the best rotations and strats, but end up giving bad info (for example, just a while ago, this guy gave me an awkward cannon rotation for Sabetha, different from the standard, which would cause issues with the debuff the further we went and just continuously blamed us all for missing cannons).

The problem isn’t DPS meters, it’s pugs.

Just don’t join. They are seeking for the like players. If you don’t want to be part of it, then just ignore it

sakura.4179:

Seen this in LFG.

Discuss.

I’m not sure why it matters to anyone other than those who want to join a group that requires DPS meters.

• If you prefer that everyone use a DPS meter, then this is great: you can finally join up with groups that require it.
• If you hate it, then it’s also great: you can finally avoid groups that require it, without taking the time to join and find out the hard way.

sophiewhite.3149:

Cynz.9437:

MrTJpwnz.4710:

I have seen one lfg requiring bdgm, imo if you want to see other ppl’s dps just get arc instead of bdgm. But it is their group, their requirements so if you don’t like it then don’t join

Yeah until everyone and their mother requires them, just like with LI. Make own group? Yeah, i did. Guess what? People have been complaining that LI requirement i put were too low and nobody wanted to join because of it. The moment i put them higher, the group filled.
Same will happen with dps meters. Anet should have never allow them in game. It adds nothing but toxicity to raiding.

but everyone and their mother does not require them. and if that does happen you can always form your own group. seeing as lfg doesnt require you to have it.

Did you even read what i wrote or you just read what you want to read?

Fay.2357:

Cynz.9437:

MrTJpwnz.4710:

I have seen one lfg requiring bdgm, imo if you want to see other ppl’s dps just get arc instead of bdgm. But it is their group, their requirements so if you don’t like it then don’t join

Yeah until everyone and their mother requires them, just like with LI. Make own group? Yeah, i did. Guess what? People have been complaining that LI requirement i put were too low and nobody wanted to join because of it. The moment i put them higher, the group filled.
Same will happen with dps meters. Anet should have never allow them in game. It adds nothing but toxicity to raiding.

If you can pull your own weight in dps, then there’s harm to getting a dps meter. The people fighting the most against them are the ones that would get kicked if people knew how badly they were playing.

Once again, issue with dps meters is that it promotes selfish gameplay and makes people ignore fight mechanics/rezzes etc. I already had “great” experience last week when we had a clown with dps meters in group that was so obsessed with dps that he simply ignored adds we needed to kill. I just did the same to show him how wrong he is – obviously we instantly wiped. But it was pointless, the guy continued to ignore mechanics and just talk about dps of the group and his personal dps.
Surely, you can kick such clowns, but when dps meters become a wide spread phenomen thanks to Anet blessing, you won’t be able to avoid such clowns anymore. Just like with LI.

Cynz.9437:

sophiewhite.3149:

Cynz.9437:

MrTJpwnz.4710:

I have seen one lfg requiring bdgm, imo if you want to see other ppl’s dps just get arc instead of bdgm. But it is their group, their requirements so if you don’t like it then don’t join

Yeah until everyone and their mother requires them, just like with LI. Make own group? Yeah, i did. Guess what? People have been complaining that LI requirement i put were too low and nobody wanted to join because of it. The moment i put them higher, the group filled.
Same will happen with dps meters. Anet should have never allow them in game. It adds nothing but toxicity to raiding.

but everyone and their mother does not require them. and if that does happen you can always form your own group. seeing as lfg doesnt require you to have it.

Did you even read what i wrote or you just read what you want to read?

Fay.2357:

Cynz.9437:

MrTJpwnz.4710:

I have seen one lfg requiring bdgm, imo if you want to see other ppl’s dps just get arc instead of bdgm. But it is their group, their requirements so if you don’t like it then don’t join

Yeah until everyone and their mother requires them, just like with LI. Make own group? Yeah, i did. Guess what? People have been complaining that LI requirement i put were too low and nobody wanted to join because of it. The moment i put them higher, the group filled.
Same will happen with dps meters. Anet should have never allow them in game. It adds nothing but toxicity to raiding.

If you can pull your own weight in dps, then there’s harm to getting a dps meter. The people fighting the most against them are the ones that would get kicked if people knew how badly they were playing.

Once again, issue with dps meters is that it promotes selfish gameplay and makes people ignore fight mechanics/rezzes etc. I already had “great” experience last week when we had a clown with dps meters in group that was so obsessed with dps that he simply ignored adds we needed to kill. I just did the same to show him how wrong he is – obviously we instantly wiped. But it was pointless, the guy continued to ignore mechanics and just talk about dps of the group and his personal dps.
Surely, you can kick such clowns, but when dps meters become a wide spread phenomen thanks to Anet blessing, you won’t be able to avoid such clowns anymore. Just like with LI.

i did but i didnt see a reason to respond to the rest. but since you brought it up.if the same thing ALREADY was happening with LI and now its stopped and your guessing in the future (with no facts to back it up btw) will happen all i can gather is that dps meters have now improved toxicity.but you dont like it. so it has to add. because anything to the contrary wouldnt fit the narrative. even if i showed you evidence proving dps meters were beneficial you would still deny it and ignore it completely. right?

Cynz.9437:

Once again, issue with dps meters is that it promotes selfish gameplay and makes people ignore fight mechanics/rezzes etc. I already had “great” experience last week when we had a clown with dps meters in group that was so obsessed with dps that he simply ignored adds we needed to kill. I just did the same to show him how wrong he is – obviously we instantly wiped. But it was pointless, the guy continued to ignore mechanics and just talk about dps of the group and his personal dps.
Surely, you can kick such clowns, but when dps meters become a wide spread phenomen thanks to Anet blessing, you won’t be able to avoid such clowns anymore. Just like with LI.

I call BS. There’s not a single fight in the game where such a thing could happen. Lets go through them, shall we?

VG: No adds
Gorseval: Adds should be pulled in and cleaved. Also you should be doing no updraft so…
Sabetha: Adds should be pulled in and cleaved
Slothy: Adds should be pulled in and cleaved/Slothy should be pulled near the center so that aoe kills adds
Trio: Heh
Matthias: No adds
Escort: Heh
KC: No adds
Xera: Adds should be pulled in and cleaved

So…which boss was this imaginary player ignoring the adds on? If the adds weren’t being pulled in, then your team was bad, it’s not the fault of the guy doing dps. Tell your mesmers to stop being idiots and put on a focus.

Edit: Silly me, I forgot wing 4, lets add them!

Cairn: No adds
Mursaat Overseer: If you guys failed this, the group sucks, not any 1 person
Samarog: No adds
Deimos: Ok, there’s some target switching here.

So, out of every boss in the game, only Deimos is relevant.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Had eggs and bacon for breakfast.

Discuss.

I dislike bacon, I had a pancake with blueberries for breakfast.
Discuss

Fay.2357:

Cynz.9437:

Once again, issue with dps meters is that it promotes selfish gameplay and makes people ignore fight mechanics/rezzes etc. I already had “great” experience last week when we had a clown with dps meters in group that was so obsessed with dps that he simply ignored adds we needed to kill. I just did the same to show him how wrong he is – obviously we instantly wiped. But it was pointless, the guy continued to ignore mechanics and just talk about dps of the group and his personal dps.
Surely, you can kick such clowns, but when dps meters become a wide spread phenomen thanks to Anet blessing, you won’t be able to avoid such clowns anymore. Just like with LI.

I call BS. There’s not a single fight in the game where such a thing could happen. Lets go through them, shall we?

VG: No adds
Gorseval: Adds should be pulled in and cleaved. Also you should be doing no updraft so…
Sabetha: Adds should be pulled in and cleaved
Slothy: Adds should be pulled in and cleaved/Slothy should be pulled near the center so that aoe kills adds
Trio: Heh
Matthias: No adds
Escort: Heh
KC: No adds
Xera: Adds should be pulled in and cleaved

So…which boss was this imaginary player ignoring the adds on? If the adds weren’t being pulled in, then your team was bad, it’s not the fault of the guy doing dps. Tell your mesmers to stop being idiots and put on a focus.

Edit: Silly me, I forgot wing 4, lets add them!

Cairn: No adds
Mursaat Overseer: If you guys failed this, the group sucks, not any 1 person
Samarog: No adds
Deimos: Ok, there’s some target switching here.

So, out of every boss in the game, only Deimos is relevant.

Have you tried to do w4 CM? Also you just proved that i wasn’t wrong.

You need to kill crystals on Xera….
Sab turrets in last phase can’t be pulled….
Matt has CC phase, the dps hungry people don’t CC, in fact they simply don’t bring any CC. Same goes for about any boss that requires CC (KC, SAB, Xera, VG etc.)
KC has adds, they are not exactly pullable, in some instances you don’t want them to be pulled….
Samarog thows spears, if you don’t clear them, especially in CM, you will wipe pretty fast.
Do you even know raid mechanics? Because based on what you have posted you have never even done any of the raid bosses.

Fay.2357:

Cynz.9437:

MrTJpwnz.4710:

I have seen one lfg requiring bdgm, imo if you want to see other ppl’s dps just get arc instead of bdgm. But it is their group, their requirements so if you don’t like it then don’t join

Yeah until everyone and their mother requires them, just like with LI. Make own group? Yeah, i did. Guess what? People have been complaining that LI requirement i put were too low and nobody wanted to join because of it. The moment i put them higher, the group filled.
Same will happen with dps meters. Anet should have never allow them in game. It adds nothing but toxicity to raiding.

If you can pull your own weight in dps, then there’s harm to getting a dps meter. The people fighting the most against them are the ones that would get kicked if people knew how badly they were playing.

Indeed. Why discuss when you can generalize all unwanted arguments into the box of bad players.

Doing CC in KC don’t hurt the dps since most of the dps comes from the burn. If a persons has low KC dps on a tempest dps role, its because they are using the wrong rotation and have not switched to air when orb pushes are at ~3th last location, and not pre-casting overload when the orb is half between the two last locations. The ghost will die from cleave regardless, so dps on the ghost at the point is pointless and it will die when KC is being burned.

Gor is a more interesting example where tempest is actually in charge of doing as little as possible orb killing but always enough orb killing. If too few orbs is being killed, its the tempest fault. if they have too little dps because they focus too much on orbs, its the tempest fault. The only saving aspect is that most dps on gor is from large hit box skills, and those shouldn’t be used on orbs in the first place.

Basically every other boss is less valuable when looking at the dps meter. VG is slightly interesting to compare people with the same role (ie, green dps with green dps, non-green dps with non-green dps). Same for sab (ie, the two turret people can compare, and non-turret dps with other non-turret dps).

Xera is a good example where dps almost say nothing, since shard clearing is such key team aspect.

Malchior.5732:

The problem isn’t DPS meters, it’s pugs.

This. Tools for analysis don’t hurt a game – on the contrary, they are valuable additions.

CptAurellian.9537:

Malchior.5732:

The problem isn’t DPS meters, it’s pugs.

This. Tools for analysis don’t hurt a game – on the contrary, they are valuable additions.

This. Really. If you can pull your weight in raid then there’s no negative side effect to having a meter. Unless you’re scared other people can see you’re not pulling your weight

a group should be given a chance, dps should be where it be so long as people know the mechanics, and know the mechanics very well. a dps tool will show who is inexperienced. and people shouldn’t take offense to that, they should ask for help. 90% of us vets will help if someone JUST ASKS.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Had eggs and bacon for breakfast.

Discuss.

Haha!!

Lol. If you need a DPS meter to play GW2, then you are doing something wrong. Anyone who needs this “tool” to raid should probably just unintelligible the game if they need a program to tell them they are doing a good job.

DPS meters will be abused. People will come to the forum crying because they got kicked from a group because someone said they where not doing enough DPS.

This will not end well. But then I don’t raid or do T4’s so I’ll never have this problem.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Lol. If you need a DPS meter to play GW2, then you are doing something wrong. Anyone who needs this “tool” to raid should probably just unintelligible the game if they need a program to tell them they are doing a good job.

DPS meters will be abused. People will come to the forum crying because they got kicked from a group because someone said they where not doing enough DPS.

This will not end well. But then I don’t raid or do T4’s so I’ll never have this problem.

So if you don’t raid or do T4s, why even join a conversation that’s heavily correlated to raiding? I personally like to know if I’m falling behind on DPS and I need to try harder on the next run. It’s also interesting to know how much your DPS drops when doing mechanics versus when you practice on the test golem.

aceboogie.4031:

a group should be given a chance, dps should be where it be so long as people know the mechanics, and know the mechanics very well. a dps tool will show who is inexperienced. and people shouldn’t take offense to that, they should ask for help. 90% of us vets will help if someone JUST ASKS.

Just yesterday during a Sabetha run, our commander notices that our DH was doing just a little poorly on DPS despite not doing cannons. He told him that he’s a bit low and to watch a quick rotation video while we looked for a new PS Warrior. The DH didn’t get offended, he just did exactly that, changed up his build a little and tried the rotation and did about 5k more DPS on the boss.

Nobody should be hating on DPS meters just because some people are toxic with them; the same people that are arguably toxic with anything else (they’re just looking for excuses to cover themselves or are angry and feel the need to blame someone).

I’ll say it again: the problem is not DPS meters, it’s pugs.
Furthermore, I don’t see a problem with a group requiring DPS meters.
If you’re raiding often, it’s nothing but a benefit to you if you care at all about improving. If you don’t want to run a DPS meter for whatever reason, then don’t. There are plenty of groups that don’t ask for them.
It’s the same thing with LI or anything else in the LFG (and it was the same with AP for dungeons way back…) ; some groups ask for them and some don’t.

Okay, your point? I’ve personally never seen it, but move along and join another squad.

I have not seen this ether but I can see it coming as BGDM is sever based so if everyone is running it then everyone see everyone’s dps. I think taking way the gear checking option was bad but I understand why. But at least we get something so it’s best not to over do it. Plus there’s always people developing new things that meet the needs of the ones looking. Its just how far are you willing to risk your account getting band in the off case of getting caught.

Malchior.5732:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Lol. If you need a DPS meter to play GW2, then you are doing something wrong. Anyone who needs this “tool” to raid should probably just unintelligible the game if they need a program to tell them they are doing a good job.

DPS meters will be abused. People will come to the forum crying because they got kicked from a group because someone said they where not doing enough DPS.

This will not end well. But then I don’t raid or do T4’s so I’ll never have this problem.

So if you don’t raid or do T4s, why even join a conversation that’s heavily correlated to raiding? I personally like to know if I’m falling behind on DPS and I need to try harder on the next run. It’s also interesting to know how much your DPS drops when doing mechanics versus when you practice on the test golem.

aceboogie.4031:

a group should be given a chance, dps should be where it be so long as people know the mechanics, and know the mechanics very well. a dps tool will show who is inexperienced. and people shouldn’t take offense to that, they should ask for help. 90% of us vets will help if someone JUST ASKS.

Just yesterday during a Sabetha run, our commander notices that our DH was doing just a little poorly on DPS despite not doing cannons. He told him that he’s a bit low and to watch a quick rotation video while we looked for a new PS Warrior. The DH didn’t get offended, he just did exactly that, changed up his build a little and tried the rotation and did about 5k more DPS on the boss.

Nobody should be hating on DPS meters just because some people are toxic with them; the same people that are arguably toxic with anything else (they’re just looking for excuses to cover themselves or are angry and feel the need to blame someone).

I’ll say it again: the problem is not DPS meters, it’s pugs.
Furthermore, I don’t see a problem with a group requiring DPS meters.
If you’re raiding often, it’s nothing but a benefit to you if you care at all about improving. If you don’t want to run a DPS meter for whatever reason, then don’t. There are plenty of groups that don’t ask for them.
It’s the same thing with LI or anything else in the LFG (and it was the same with AP for dungeons way back…) ; some groups ask for them and some don’t.

It’s simple why I’m talking about this. If you can’t tell you’ve messed up your rotation, then you are not paying attention. This is not Wow where you can have over 20 skills to think about using. You have 10. That’s it. 10 skills to use at the right order and remember to dodge. Why on gods green earth do you need a 3rd party program to know you messed up? You don’t really. People want DPS meters to point fingers. That’s all they are good for in GW2. Once you know your class and know the rotations, nothing changes. As long as your constant with your skill activations you can’t go wrong.

If for what ever reason you do mess up. You will know it. You really don’t need a DPS meter to tell you that unless you like to lie to your self.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Malchior.5732:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Lol. If you need a DPS meter to play GW2, then you are doing something wrong. Anyone who needs this “tool” to raid should probably just unintelligible the game if they need a program to tell them they are doing a good job.

DPS meters will be abused. People will come to the forum crying because they got kicked from a group because someone said they where not doing enough DPS.

This will not end well. But then I don’t raid or do T4’s so I’ll never have this problem.

So if you don’t raid or do T4s, why even join a conversation that’s heavily correlated to raiding? I personally like to know if I’m falling behind on DPS and I need to try harder on the next run. It’s also interesting to know how much your DPS drops when doing mechanics versus when you practice on the test golem.

aceboogie.4031:

a group should be given a chance, dps should be where it be so long as people know the mechanics, and know the mechanics very well. a dps tool will show who is inexperienced. and people shouldn’t take offense to that, they should ask for help. 90% of us vets will help if someone JUST ASKS.

Just yesterday during a Sabetha run, our commander notices that our DH was doing just a little poorly on DPS despite not doing cannons. He told him that he’s a bit low and to watch a quick rotation video while we looked for a new PS Warrior. The DH didn’t get offended, he just did exactly that, changed up his build a little and tried the rotation and did about 5k more DPS on the boss.

Nobody should be hating on DPS meters just because some people are toxic with them; the same people that are arguably toxic with anything else (they’re just looking for excuses to cover themselves or are angry and feel the need to blame someone).

I’ll say it again: the problem is not DPS meters, it’s pugs.
Furthermore, I don’t see a problem with a group requiring DPS meters.
If you’re raiding often, it’s nothing but a benefit to you if you care at all about improving. If you don’t want to run a DPS meter for whatever reason, then don’t. There are plenty of groups that don’t ask for them.
It’s the same thing with LI or anything else in the LFG (and it was the same with AP for dungeons way back…) ; some groups ask for them and some don’t.

It’s simple why I’m talking about this. If you can’t tell you’ve messed up your rotation, then you are not paying attention. This is not Wow where you can have over 20 skills to think about using. You have 10. That’s it. 10 skills to use at the right order and remember to dodge. Why on gods green earth do you need a 3rd party program to know you messed up? You don’t really. People want DPS meters to point fingers. That’s all they are good for in GW2. Once you know your class and know the rotations, nothing changes. As long as your constant with your skill activations you can’t go wrong.

If for what ever reason you do mess up. You will know it. You really don’t need a DPS meter to tell you that unless you like to lie to your self.

Ok, I can see that you don’t truly understand how easy it is to mess up your rotation.

10 skills, huh? Tell that to Elementalist (at least 13 unique skills in the standard Staff rotation that need to be used precisely, and many more situational skills).

Now, practice your rotation hard until you no longer mess up, don’t stay in one element for a second longer than you need to, don’t miss any AoEs because you’re rushing yourself, don’t use the wrong skills, and never stop moving so you don’t lose Seaweed Salad buff.

Now do it during an actual fight and while handling mechanics.
Then, realize what all your other skills can do and learn when it’s correct to apply them during encounters and when it’s not.

Done? Now practice FA Staff rotation and D/W rotation and when it’s appropriate to use them.

There are simpler classes, but even one as simple as Staff Daredevil can be infuriatingly difficult to do in a real fight (with only Auto-attack, Staff 2, Dodge attack, and a single utility…).

The reality is that I didn’t know how bad I actually was until I got the DPS meter and saw for myself. I’m still not perfect, but I try way harder BECAUSE I know I need to improve. Yea, it’s easy to know to mess up if you just start dropping AoEs in the wrong spot. It’s not easy to know you messed up because you swapped a second later than you were supposed to and missed 10% damage on several hits (this is especially important on DPS checks like Gorseval No Updraft, because you can’t slack off due to pugs that might not know their own rotations).

I’ll finish off by saying this: the only people pointing fingers are the anti-meter people and the occasional pug who doesn’t even understand what their doing (i.e. random person who will always be toxic, whether with a meter or with LI/AP or anything else).

BrotherBelial.3094:

It’s simple why I’m talking about this. If you can’t tell you’ve messed up your rotation, then you are not paying attention. This is not Wow where you can have over 20 skills to think about using. You have 10. That’s it. 10 skills to use at the right order and remember to dodge. Why on gods green earth do you need a 3rd party program to know you messed up? You don’t really. People want DPS meters to point fingers. That’s all they are good for in GW2. Once you know your class and know the rotations, nothing changes. As long as your constant with your skill activations you can’t go wrong.

If for what ever reason you do mess up. You will know it. You really don’t need a DPS meter to tell you that unless you like to lie to your self.

It tells you how much you messed up the rotation by. The farther away from the theoretical DPS, the more mistakes you likely made.

If you’re theory crafting a team composition for a static guild run, it can let you know if this iteration was better than the other. Of course, multiple runs would be necessary to ensure that it wasn’t just mistakes being made (or at least enough to rule out fluke perfect run and fluke horrible run).

If you’ve got 1 spot left in a static group for raiding, it can give you one tool to decide who to let in if you’ve got more than one person wanting in. Just DPS alone shouldn’t be the end all be all, but it should be factored in.

And those are just off of the top of my head. I’m sure those that use them for non-toxic reasons can give more examples of how they can be used for non-toxic purposes.

BrotherBelial.3094:

It’s simple why I’m talking about this. If you can’t tell you’ve messed up your rotation, then you are not paying attention. This is not Wow where you can have over 20 skills to think about using. You have 10. That’s it. 10 skills to use at the right order and remember to dodge. Why on gods green earth do you need a 3rd party program to know you messed up? You don’t really. People want DPS meters to point fingers. That’s all they are good for in GW2. Once you know your class and know the rotations, nothing changes. As long as your constant with your skill activations you can’t go wrong.

If for what ever reason you do mess up. You will know it. You really don’t need a DPS meter to tell you that unless you like to lie to your self.

While finger pointing sounds bad, with the state of the raid environment, it can actually be a good thing.

Currently, if a group is wiping constantly, its easy to blame the people who are not part of the four great professions (warrior, ele, mesmer, druid). Say the real reason is that the ele or warrior are messing up rotations and it’s the engineer who is actually trying hard to get everything right. Doesn’t matter, the group will lecture/kick the engineer and no real progress will be made.

While DPS meters aren’t the be all end all as an indication of how well a group is doing, it can help a lot.

Amaimon.7823:

CptAurellian.9537:

Malchior.5732:

The problem isn’t DPS meters, it’s pugs.

This. Tools for analysis don’t hurt a game – on the contrary, they are valuable additions.

This. Really. If you can pull your weight in raid then there’s no negative side effect to having a meter. Unless you’re scared other people can see you’re not pulling your weight

And this is exactly the issue. People will be scared to get kicked because they are not doing desired dps so they will focus more on dps than fight mechanics or rezzing teammates etc (is already happening, see my post above). DPS meters promote nothing but selfish gameplay which is extremely harmful in overall fight. It was extremely widespread in WoW, it will be the same here.

Cynz.9437:

Amaimon.7823:

CptAurellian.9537:

Malchior.5732:

The problem isn’t DPS meters, it’s pugs.

This. Tools for analysis don’t hurt a game – on the contrary, they are valuable additions.

This. Really. If you can pull your weight in raid then there’s no negative side effect to having a meter. Unless you’re scared other people can see you’re not pulling your weight

And this is exactly the issue. People will be scared to get kicked because they are not doing desired dps so they will focus more on dps than fight mechanics or rezzing teammates etc (is already happening, see my post above). DPS meters promote nothing but selfish gameplay which is extremely harmful in overall fight. It was extremely widespread in WoW, it will be the same here.

people don’t need to be afraid of rezzing in raids, i’ve seen it save it more attempts than ruin it. and wow is a very bad example because the rushes are designed very differently. There the numbers matter more, here in GW2, the strategy matters more

Amaimon.7823:

people don’t need to be afraid of rezzing in raids, i’ve seen it save it more attempts than ruin it.

That’s the point. People shouldn’t be afraid of rezzing. Some however will be, because that will cause their dps rating to go down, and might get them kicked. And please, don’t say that it won’t happen.

Astralporing.1957:

That’s the point. People shouldn’t be afraid of rezzing. Some however will be, because that will cause their dps rating to go down, and might get them kicked. And please, don’t say that it won’t happen.

More likely to kick the one constantly getting downed. Also some players should be afraid of rezzing. A chrono won’t be kicked for low dps. A druid won’t be kicked for low dps. A PS Warrior won’t be kicked for low dps. That’s 6 spots in the Raid that won’t be kicked for having low dps on the meter. These will likely change based on the encounter.

That leaves us with 3 to 4 slots that “need” to watch their dps during a fight. Only way for someone to legit be kicked for having low dps is if their job is to dps, and dps only, and they fail to do that. If you are an Ele on KC, it’s the burn phase and someone goes down, don’t rez them, let someone else of the team rez them. Your job on the burn phase is to DAMAGE. There is no excuse if you go and rez someone, and more importantly there is no excuse for the rest of the team to not rez the one downed.

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

That’s the point. People shouldn’t be afraid of rezzing. Some however will be, because that will cause their dps rating to go down, and might get them kicked. And please, don’t say that it won’t happen.

More likely to kick the one constantly getting downed. Also some players should be afraid of rezzing. A chrono won’t be kicked for low dps. A druid won’t be kicked for low dps. A PS Warrior won’t be kicked for low dps. That’s 6 spots in the Raid that won’t be kicked for having low dps on the meter. These will likely change based on the encounter.

That leaves us with 3 to 4 slots that “need” to watch their dps during a fight. Only way for someone to legit be kicked for having low dps is if their job is to dps, and dps only, and they fail to do that. If you are an Ele on KC, it’s the burn phase and someone goes down, don’t rez them, let someone else of the team rez them. Your job on the burn phase is to DAMAGE. There is no excuse if you go and rez someone, and more importantly there is no excuse for the rest of the team to not rez the one downed.

Except there is. As mes i might be mid of CS rotation, as druid you should not be rezzing people but actually heal people who is rezzing someone in downstate (especially on Matt), it leaves wars but problem with wars is that they are melee and usually have certain roles to fill as well. Prime example VG: someone goes down in green circle, no way war gonna run back from VG to green circle to rez the guy that got downed there. Not happening. Meanwhile as say staff ele or condi engi you are busy rezzing that guy instead of dpsing VG. Given how extremely toxic raiding community is (at least from my experience), you just gonna see people like this engi getting booted for not meeting the “meta” numbers.
You think raiding community is great and won’t abuse dps meters for griefing? Here is example: i got kicked from Xera group because my LI was the lowest and i am supposedly trash and inexperienced, meanwhile i am sitting at 10 stacks where whole team is having silver/gold stacks and 2 were dead (some clown went burning retreat off edge, other ate orbs 24/7) before labyrinth phase even started. I join another Xera group, we kill her on first try. This is nice and friendly raiding community for you.

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

That’s the point. People shouldn’t be afraid of rezzing. Some however will be, because that will cause their dps rating to go down, and might get them kicked. And please, don’t say that it won’t happen.

More likely to kick the one constantly getting downed. Also some players should be afraid of rezzing. A chrono won’t be kicked for low dps. A druid won’t be kicked for low dps. A PS Warrior won’t be kicked for low dps. That’s 6 spots in the Raid that won’t be kicked for having low dps on the meter. These will likely change based on the encounter.

That leaves us with 3 to 4 slots that “need” to watch their dps during a fight. Only way for someone to legit be kicked for having low dps is if their job is to dps, and dps only, and they fail to do that. If you are an Ele on KC, it’s the burn phase and someone goes down, don’t rez them, let someone else of the team rez them. Your job on the burn phase is to DAMAGE. There is no excuse if you go and rez someone, and more importantly there is no excuse for the rest of the team to not rez the one downed.

Except there is. As mes i might be mid of CS rotation, as druid you should not be rezzing people but actually heal people who is rezzing someone in downstate (especially on Matt), it leaves wars but problem with wars is that they are melee and usually have certain roles to fill as well. Prime example VG: someone goes down in green circle, no way war gonna run back from VG to green circle to rez the guy that got downed there. Not happening. Meanwhile as say staff ele or condi engi you are busy rezzing that guy instead of dpsing VG. Given how extremely toxic raiding community is (at least from my experience), you just gonna see people like this engi getting booted for not meeting the “meta” numbers.
You think raiding community is great and won’t abuse dps meters for griefing? Here is example: i got kicked from Xera group because my LI was the lowest and i am supposedly trash and inexperienced, meanwhile i am sitting at 10 stacks where whole team is having silver/gold stacks and 2 were dead (some clown went burning retreat off edge, other ate orbs 24/7) before labyrinth phase even started. I join another Xera group, we kill her on first try. This is nice and friendly raiding community for you.

Cynz.9437:

Except there is.

There are always exceptions.
Do people really count the dps on Matthias with all his invulnerability phases and the need to run around to cleanse?

What’s next? Kicking people when their dps is lower because they are on slubling duty (Slothasor) or cannon duty (Sabetha)? A tool doesn’t cure human stupidity

maddoctor.2738:

Cynz.9437:

Except there is.

There are always exceptions.
Do people really count the dps on Matthias with all his invulnerability phases and the need to run around to cleanse?

What’s next? Kicking people when their dps is lower because they are on slubling duty (Slothasor) or cannon duty (Sabetha)? A tool doesn’t cure human stupidity

The tool gives more reasons for “stupid” people to be toxic.

Astralporing.1957:

Amaimon.7823:

people don’t need to be afraid of rezzing in raids, i’ve seen it save it more attempts than ruin it.

That’s the point. People shouldn’t be afraid of rezzing. Some however will be, because that will cause their dps rating to go down, and might get them kicked. And please, don’t say that it won’t happen.

in my opinion, the people that kick others when dps falls down a little for 5 seconds in a long fight.. those aren’t the kinds of people you should wanna raid with anyway