Dear Casual Players (Dungeon Changes)
wow. ok, no offense… as a casual player myself, i appreciate what you think you’re trying to do, but this post could be really misleading. i do not consider myself a ‘bad’ player. in fact i think i’m pretty decent and learning fast. (managed to be ‘last man standing’ in a poor attempt at Kholer last night, in only my 2nd run in AC ever. our next attempt at him succeeded).
i don’t feel the need to grind insanely for teh most ubar gear evar!!!! i didn’t feel that need in DDO either. i understand that player skill plays into it much moreso than gear alone. but saying a dungeon can be run by a casual in 20-60 minutes is setting up a NEW player for failure. 20-60 minutes is doable with an EXPERIENCED crew… casual or not… but alot of people associate “casual” with “new-person-friendly”. i know someone who, when they made 30, they celebrated by getting a pack of others 30-60 together, all of whom had not run AC much or at all, and tried to run AC storymode. TWO HOURS LATER they finally completed. if res-rushing had already been removed, they would have never finished, and would have quit in frustration. Frustrating mechanics are never good mechanics. they tend to push people away from the game, as they are not conducive to fun.
it’s very easy to forget how hard things are when you are just learning them… i’ve observed this learning curve in every game i’ve played to date. once you know all the tricks, the game is easy. until you know all the tricks, it can be very hard… and if the game is balanced to try to counter the tricks, it becomes prohibitively difficult.
overall, i like this game. learning the basics is pretty easy… and going against live opponents in WvW forces me to hone my skills… and i know i still have a lot to learn yet.
~o hai there :D~ LONG LIVE ET
@katz.8376 – I think you hit on one of the fundamental beauties of GW2 in comparison to other MMOs. The game is ‘skill based’ instead of gear based. 5 lvl 35s who know what they are doing will have almost the same experience as 5 lvl 80s (who know what they are doing) when it comes to AC.
This to me is one of the greatest things that makes this game ‘casual friendly’ as oppose to ‘trivial’. I can come, play a game that feels like I am actually doing something, or getting better at something, and then leave to go deal with RL, without feeling like I am going to be locked out of content by not being sufficient level.
That said, Yes, I did assume that at least one or two people attempting the dungeon had some knowledge of its layout and mechanics. But I think that goes without saying. Personally, If I am not in a rush, there is a lot of fun with ‘exploring’ a new dungeon with a group that has never done it before… provided everyone in the group is interested in the same learning experience. But if your in a rush, or just want tokens, going in blind is never a good idea, casual or not.
I like this thread a lot. I’m kind of a hybrid player, on days I work I get in maybe 1 or 2 hours, but on my days off I’ll sometimes play 5-8 hours depending on my schedule that day. I played a Guardian (Meditation tank build) up to 80 and then decided I liked the Ghastly Sword/Shield and took my happy self off to AC to get tokens. The experience was not good, not at all. I got my backside kicked all over the place and had almost no fun at all. I did eventually get the Sword and Shield but walked away from the experience thinking I just sucked at the game which was a shock because my Guardian is practically unstoppable in regular PVE. Like some other people have, I made the exact assumption you’re talking about, I assumed that I was a ‘casual’ player and therefore by comparison, a ‘bad’ player.
Then I poked around this forum for a bit and now I realize it was just my approach. I did no research on the dungeon before doing it, I knew nothing about the dungeon and didn’t communicate to my party that I was new. I had a hard time not because the dungeon is impossible or because I ‘suck,’ I struggled because I simply screwed up and tried to tank everything like I do in PVE just to get steam rolled by anything above a silver mob.
I have since created a Warrior as an Alt because I want to have a ‘Tank’ and a more DPS focused character. I have decided that I want the COF Armor Set, but this time I’m going to do it different. I’m going to watch the guides posted here, I’m going to read the tips on the Wiki and when I join my group I’m going to relay to them that I’m a first timer but I have done my research and I’m going to try and do a better job. For those in the same boat, there is a sticky thread at the top of this section that has links to walkthrough videos on Youtube that are narrated and tell you step by step what to do on each path. The Wiki also has tips and written walkthroughs as well. Maybe it’s time that us ‘casuals’ simply took a little more time to prepare instead of treating dungeons like they were regular PVE encounters. Will I be successful? Maybe, maybe not, but I’m sure I’ll do better this time. Just because we don’t play 5+ hrs a day doesn’t mean we can’t contribute and play well, we’re just going to have to make better use of the time we have.
I hate to say it, but a large part of being casual is simply that I don’t have the time to spend a part time job doing “research” just to have some fun. In fact the idea that I need to “study up” on how to play a game that I supposedly do to get away from the stress and frustration of life seems like an oxymoron in the purest sense. In fact, when you couple that with the idea that I am now forced to spend my “play time” IE: the time I have put aside and allocated to gaming, is now spent looking at how to do a dungeon seems to be the apex of exactly what “against the casual” gamer in every sens of the word.
Sorry Silidus, but while I loved your post, I sincerely could not tell if you were trying to toll by setting people up to fail and fail hard, or if you really were trying to be encouraging, but none the less, the reality is, to get good and know a dungeon well enough to be able run it in 20 – 60 min takes either a veteran group willing to carry you, or it takes a lot of time to practice getting good at it, and it’s the latter that by definition is exactly what “Casual” players are strapped for.
Born and Raised in Eredon Terrace
i come straight from DDO, which is another game that relies heavily on skill. good gear does make a difference, no doubt, but player skill and knowledge is much much more important. in this game here, i see alot of cheese tactics in dungeons. mobs that can insta-kill me if i make the slightest mistake. VERY VERY unforgiving. now, while i am learning quick, i was carried thru my first AC. i know i was. know how i know? because when i got downed, and (at their advisement) recalled to a WP for a ‘res rush’… i was completely unable to rejoin them. without the beefy guardian i ran behind the first time getting the agro first, i was unable to make it past the burrow we left behind in the first bit of tunnel… no matter how i dodged, jumped, or rolled thru multiple attempts… i died in a split second. in an instant. it was very demoralizing. and unfun.
taking away our cheese (res rushing. perching. etc) but not taking away some measure of the boss mob’s cheese in return… is (forgive my pun) just cheesy.
~o hai there :D~ LONG LIVE ET
I hate to say it, but a large part of being casual is simply that I don’t have the time to spend a part time job doing “research” just to have some fun. In fact the idea that I need to “study up” on how to play a game that I supposedly do to get away from the stress and frustration of life seems like an oxymoron in the purest sense. In fact, when you couple that with the idea that I am now forced to spend my “play time” IE: the time I have put aside and allocated to gaming, is now spent looking at how to do a dungeon seems to be the apex of exactly what “against the casual” gamer in every sens of the word.
Sorry Silidus, but while I loved your post, I sincerely could not tell if you were trying to toll by setting people up to fail and fail hard, or if you really were trying to be encouraging, but none the less, the reality is, to get good and know a dungeon well enough to be able run it in 20 – 60 min takes either a veteran group willing to carry you, or it takes a lot of time to practice getting good at it, and it’s the latter that by definition is exactly what “Casual” players are strapped for.
I don’t Troll…
I should state that you have a very valid point when it comes to ‘research’. Personally, I don’t have time for it either, and only rarely do it (usually only if I am grouping with my wife and friends who are also casual and never done the instance before). For the most part, at this stage of the game I am assuming that in any random pug group there is at least ONE person who has done the instance before, and has some understanding of the boss.
All I am doing is trying to break this association between ‘casual player’ and ‘incompetent player’… they are not the same thing. If you are a casual player, remember that this is a skill based game, and it is up to you to ask questions (in the game, during the instance) and do your best to learn while remembering to keep it fun.
If you are NOT causal, remember that others are, and always be open to answering questions from those who would be excellent players and companions if given a heads up now and again.
I hate to say it, but a large part of being casual is simply that I don’t have the time to spend a part time job doing “research” just to have some fun. In fact the idea that I need to “study up” on how to play a game that I supposedly do to get away from the stress and frustration of life seems like an oxymoron in the purest sense. In fact, when you couple that with the idea that I am now forced to spend my “play time” IE: the time I have put aside and allocated to gaming, is now spent looking at how to do a dungeon seems to be the apex of exactly what “against the casual” gamer in every sens of the word.
Sorry Silidus, but while I loved your post, I sincerely could not tell if you were trying to toll by setting people up to fail and fail hard, or if you really were trying to be encouraging, but none the less, the reality is, to get good and know a dungeon well enough to be able run it in 20 – 60 min takes either a veteran group willing to carry you, or it takes a lot of time to practice getting good at it, and it’s the latter that by definition is exactly what “Casual” players are strapped for.
Yep I agree, and I would also extent on this, because playing sports for fun is just ridiculously tiring right? I think we don’t need any of this. What we need is a screen that feeds us entertainment without any effort at all. Actually i think such a thing has been invented already, called Youtube or television. Better get a fat couch too, to maximize the rate of entertainment return and lack of effort.
I hate to say it, but a large part of being casual is simply that I don’t have the time to spend a part time job doing “research” just to have some fun. In fact the idea that I need to “study up” on how to play a game that I supposedly do to get away from the stress and frustration of life seems like an oxymoron in the purest sense. In fact, when you couple that with the idea that I am now forced to spend my “play time” IE: the time I have put aside and allocated to gaming, is now spent looking at how to do a dungeon seems to be the apex of exactly what “against the casual” gamer in every sens of the word.
Sorry Silidus, but while I loved your post, I sincerely could not tell if you were trying to toll by setting people up to fail and fail hard, or if you really were trying to be encouraging, but none the less, the reality is, to get good and know a dungeon well enough to be able run it in 20 – 60 min takes either a veteran group willing to carry you, or it takes a lot of time to practice getting good at it, and it’s the latter that by definition is exactly what “Casual” players are strapped for.
Yep I agree, and I would also extent on this, because playing sports for fun is just ridiculously tiring right? I think we don’t need any of this. What we need is a screen that feeds us entertainment without any effort at all. Actually i think such a thing has been invented already, called Youtube or television. Better get a fat couch too, to maximize the rate of entertainment return and lack of effort.
I don’t think that was the point.
The point is that when you have only 2 hours to yourself per night (per week), where there isn’t something WAY more important demanding your immediate attention, what would you rather do, play GW2 or read about GW2 (or watch someone else play GW2)?
I don’t think that was the point.
The point is that when you have only 2 hours to yourself per night (per week), where there isn’t something WAY more important demanding your immediate attention, what would you rather do, play GW2 or read about GW2 (or watch someone else play GW2)?
This is exactly my point.
The truth is, most Mobs are not hard. They have a limited number of choreographed or staged moves, that once you learn what they are and how to avoid them, it starts the process of making the mob less and and less a threat. The counter this that GW2 put was a very tacky tactic of making the mobs mainly a Dodge or Die type of deal, which should have went away when we stopped playing games like Donkey Kong and our survival counted on more then a Joystick and a Jump button. In the case if GW2 we Auto attack and then Joystick and dodge button are pretty much the end of the encounter.
And while you are right, in that avenue, it is about skill, timing, and internet connection and that is mostly unaffected by how much playtime you have, again, it is also about having the time to practice and a group with the patience to allow you to learn. The reality is however, Neither of those things are easy to come by for most casual players.
Born and Raised in Eredon Terrace
(edited by Ungood.3054)