Guild Wars 2

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_DPS/Support

Please check this build which got into meta.
EDIT: Also, please read the first comment on the webpage written by the owner of the build.
If I commit to it and reforge my armor/weapons and buy those 2 expesnive sigils and 6 runes, do you think a general PUG group would let me in with them for the whole run? According to the tests of the guy who developed this build, guardians have 3rd best DPS in it after ele and thief.

Also, I am geared into Marauder/knight/cavalier/zerk mix and have 1502 toughness for tanking. I suppose there is no point in trying to get into a pug group as a tank, right? (raiding guild is not an option for me for my weird time schedule)

I’m pretty sure that this is far from being the 3rd best DPS.
Guardians are in a pretty bad situation in raids I guess, since their DPS isn’t top tier, and things they used to be really good at are now done better by other classes.
If you want to pug with this, there’s a chance a few groups will kick you because guardian isn’t really in the raid meta, but there’s nothing stopping you from playing it if you like it

bladex.9502:

I’m pretty sure that this is far from being the 3rd best DPS.
Guardians are in a pretty bad situation in raids I guess, since their DPS isn’t top tier, and things they used to be really good at are now done better by other classes.
If you want to pug with this, there’s a chance a few groups will kick you because guardian isn’t really in the raid meta, but there’s nothing stopping you from playing it if you like it

It wouldn’t get into metabattle meta section if it wasn’t ….

You could try. But i wouldn’t imagine people would bring you along especially pugs.
because according to the build some of the benefits a guardian would bring it already brought by another class and done better
1. “perm protection” – rev already has it
2. healing – should be covered by a druid, you wouldn’t need the passive heal from a guard

As for third dps i think you must have misread. He says “On a sidenote, this is the highest damage build of the Guardian. The higher damage GS/LB or GS/Mace,Focus(Torch) offers with their burst gets negated over time and the Hammer takes over with the higher constant DPS.”

Leezy.4567:

You could try. But i wouldn’t imagine people would bring you along especially pugs.
because according to the build some of the benefits a guardian would bring it already brought by another class and done better
1. “perm protection” – rev already has it
2. healing – should be covered by a druid, you wouldn’t need the passive heal from a guard

As for third dps i think you must have misread. He says “On a sidenote, this is the highest damage build of the Guardian. The higher damage GS/LB or GS/Mace,Focus(Torch) offers with their burst gets negated over time and the Hammer takes over with the higher constant DPS.”

Down in comments section the owner of the build says:
“I did several testings and stuff and I came always to the same result. Hammer Guardian got the highest sustained DPS of all Guardian builds. It is somehow sad, that auto attack offers more DPS than actually doing rotations, but you cant do anything against the numbers.
I should work on a proper spreadsheet to get a good graph to show, that the DPS over time is superior to the other Guardian builds.
Another thing is, at the current state of the game, this build “only” gets out DPS’d by Eles and Thiefs. So yes, it isn’t the best option for max grp damage, but it is a good option and the best for Guardian."

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

I’m pretty sure that this is far from being the 3rd best DPS.
Guardians are in a pretty bad situation in raids I guess, since their DPS isn’t top tier, and things they used to be really good at are now done better by other classes.
If you want to pug with this, there’s a chance a few groups will kick you because guardian isn’t really in the raid meta, but there’s nothing stopping you from playing it if you like it

It wouldn’t get into metabattle meta section if it wasn’t ….

Implying metabattle is some kind of holy grail of builds?
You ask people for their opinions, and when they give their opinion you say they are wrong because metabattle said otherwise?
Whats the point of even making this thread then? lol

bladex.9502:

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

I’m pretty sure that this is far from being the 3rd best DPS.
Guardians are in a pretty bad situation in raids I guess, since their DPS isn’t top tier, and things they used to be really good at are now done better by other classes.
If you want to pug with this, there’s a chance a few groups will kick you because guardian isn’t really in the raid meta, but there’s nothing stopping you from playing it if you like it

It wouldn’t get into metabattle meta section if it wasn’t ….

Implying metabattle is some kind of holy grail of builds?
You ask people for their opinions, and when they give their opinion you say they are wrong because metabattle said otherwise?
Whats the point of even making this thread then? lol

Oh, no no… Sorry, I didn’t mean that. What I meant is that the person responsible for this build would not claim that it is the 3rd best DPS (sustained, not burst) if it wasn’t. Please read his comment.

[/quote]

. So yes, it isn’t the best option for max grp damage, but it is a good option and the best for Guardian."

[/quote]

group > personal. If you wanted to go for personal damage. thief, ele plenty of them out in the LFG. I haven’t looked at it’s numbers. But if it is 3rd dps. it could very well be in the same situation that thief was in before it’s damage increase. It’s decent Dps but it brings nothing else to the table (as i said earlier it’s already covered)

Leezy.4567:

. So yes, it isn’t the best option for max grp damage, but it is a good option and the best for Guardian."

[/quote]

group > personal. If you wanted to go for personal damage. thief, ele plenty of them out in the LFG.

[/quote]

Okay, so your answer is no, 3rd in damage is not good enough for PUGs. Okay thank you. Back to ignoring raids then.

Mortifer.2946:

It wouldn’t get into metabattle meta section if it wasn’t ….

AH AH AH AH AH.

You are funny. Do you know how many people are working on these build and voting on them? Maybe like 20-30 people. And do you know them? What make them qualified to decide what is meta or not?

I’m not saying that they do a bad job, but it’s not because it’s on meta battle that it will change anything. Let’s see their dps and then it will mean something. And, I’m not saying that Guardian should be excluded from raid. Tbh I like Guardian hammer at Sabetha, but i wouldn’t bring one in Gorseval (unless I’m really wrong about their dps).

I want to see those test Thor say he did, not just his word.

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

I’m pretty sure that this is far from being the 3rd best DPS.
Guardians are in a pretty bad situation in raids I guess, since their DPS isn’t top tier, and things they used to be really good at are now done better by other classes.
If you want to pug with this, there’s a chance a few groups will kick you because guardian isn’t really in the raid meta, but there’s nothing stopping you from playing it if you like it

It wouldn’t get into metabattle meta section if it wasn’t ….

Implying metabattle is some kind of holy grail of builds?
You ask people for their opinions, and when they give their opinion you say they are wrong because metabattle said otherwise?
Whats the point of even making this thread then? lol

Oh, no no… Sorry, I didn’t mean that. What I meant is that the person responsible for this build would not claim that it is the 3rd best DPS (sustained, not burst) if it wasn’t. Please read his comment.

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Anyways, in your OP you ask “If I commit to it and reforge my armor/weapons and buy those 2 expesnive sigils and 6 runes, do you think a general PUG group would let me in with them for the whole run?” and the simple answer to that is no

You sure seem to be really persistent about it being the 3rd highest DPS in the game, but can you show any proof of it?
In fact, most builds have videos of them actually doing a certain amount of DPS, but this metabattle article just states that it does the 3rd highest dps in the game, and doesn’t show any evidence for it

bladex.9502:

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Well it seem that it’s Thor the leader of Snow Crow, which is a know speed running guild and on of the first guild to achieve no updraft gorseval. That said, I would still want to see the tests and not just believe him without proof like mister Mortifer.

bladex.9502:

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

I’m pretty sure that this is far from being the 3rd best DPS.
Guardians are in a pretty bad situation in raids I guess, since their DPS isn’t top tier, and things they used to be really good at are now done better by other classes.
If you want to pug with this, there’s a chance a few groups will kick you because guardian isn’t really in the raid meta, but there’s nothing stopping you from playing it if you like it

It wouldn’t get into metabattle meta section if it wasn’t ….

Implying metabattle is some kind of holy grail of builds?
You ask people for their opinions, and when they give their opinion you say they are wrong because metabattle said otherwise?
Whats the point of even making this thread then? lol

Oh, no no… Sorry, I didn’t mean that. What I meant is that the person responsible for this build would not claim that it is the 3rd best DPS (sustained, not burst) if it wasn’t. Please read his comment.

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Anyways, in your OP you ask “If I commit to it and reforge my armor/weapons and buy those 2 expesnive sigils and 6 runes, do you think a general PUG group would let me in with them for the whole run?” and the simple answer to that is no

You sure seem to be really persistent about it being the 3rd highest DPS in the game, but can you show any proof of it?
In fact, most builds have videos of them actually doing a certain amount of DPS, but this metabattle article just states that it does the 3rd highest dps in the game, and doesn’t show any evidence for it

Yes, thank you for feed back kitten this hehe …Since I started playing fractals and open world maps, I actually started having fun again. It is not worth to ruin my love of guild wars just for some 3 gimmicky bosses that are the first attempt of ArenaNet on making a raid content.

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Well it seem that it’s Thor the leader of Snow Crow, which is a know speed running guild and on of the first guild to achieve no updraft gorseval. That said, I would still want to see the tests and not just believe him without proof like mister Mortifer.

I know who Thor is, but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is true

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Well it seem that it’s Thor the leader of Snow Crow, which is a know speed running guild and on of the first guild to achieve no updraft gorseval. That said, I would still want to see the tests and not just believe him without proof like mister Mortifer.

I know who Thor is, but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is true

And that’s what I said too. But I answered the question. You asked ‘’And who exactly is this person’’ so I answered and say that he’s credible, but I would still want proof.

Guys you are pretty cranky if somebody touches your stuff….sorry for being a poor guardian wanting to have fun with you.

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Well it seem that it’s Thor the leader of Snow Crow, which is a know speed running guild and on of the first guild to achieve no updraft gorseval. That said, I would still want to see the tests and not just believe him without proof like mister Mortifer.

I know who Thor is, but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is true

And that’s what I said too. But I answered the question. You asked ‘’And who exactly is this person’’ so I answered and say that he’s credible, but I would still want proof.

I kinda used that wording to ask the OP why exactly he believes everything the build mentions is true, not to question who made it, I know SC is in charge of the metabattle builds now :P

I’m sure there will be some pugs that bring you in, but this will likely be in spite of you playing a guardian rather than because of it.

I mean, I doubt that this is as high DPS as it says it is (everyone claims their build does amazing DPS), but even if it is, you’ll still be overwriting all the fire fields with your light fields. Not only does this hinder might stacking, but it also means that projectile and whirl finishers won’t apply burning, so it will hinder the DPS of others.

Honestly, I think that even if a group wanted 100% protection, they’d be better off with a revenant.

Sorry Guardians. =/

Mortifer.2946:

Guys you are pretty cranky if somebody touches your stuff….sorry for being a poor guardian wanting to have fun with you.

How are we being cranky?
In my first reply I literally tell you that there’s nothing stopping you from playing it if you want to, I just told you the truth on your question if pugs will run with you or not.
Pugs in this game are gonna be pugs, and kick everything that isn’t “100% optimal”, at least according to them.
When dungeons were still ran pugs used to kick rangers and engineers, and demand 2 elementalists 1 thief 1 guardian 1 warrior everywhere, even tho it was far from optimal.

If you really enjoy playing this build just do it

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Well it seem that it’s Thor the leader of Snow Crow, which is a know speed running guild and on of the first guild to achieve no updraft gorseval. That said, I would still want to see the tests and not just believe him without proof like mister Mortifer.

I know who Thor is, but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is true

And that’s what I said too. But I answered the question. You asked ‘’And who exactly is this person’’ so I answered and say that he’s credible, but I would still want proof.

I kinda used that wording to ask the OP why exactly he believes everything the build mentions is true, not to question who made it, I know SC is in charge of the metabattle builds now :P

You know, I did believe metabattle, because if you check raid section, you can see all the meta builds that are actually wanted in raids. If some patch changes something, you can see a pretty fast update on metabattle. And also, guardian was NEVER in the meta section up until now. I believe this guy, he has a lot of experience and he tested it several times. I however agree he needs to show evidence.

But if he will, and he happens to be right, what then? Do you think the general consensus of guardians in raids can change? I guess being the third damager is still not good enough for these min/max pug elitists. …. Some noob don’t even know his class but put his money or time into making multiple characters according to some build guides and then he gets there and me not…even though I watched hundreds of minutes of raid gameplay and being a fairly good player and a veteran.

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Well it seem that it’s Thor the leader of Snow Crow, which is a know speed running guild and on of the first guild to achieve no updraft gorseval. That said, I would still want to see the tests and not just believe him without proof like mister Mortifer.

I know who Thor is, but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is true

And that’s what I said too. But I answered the question. You asked ‘’And who exactly is this person’’ so I answered and say that he’s credible, but I would still want proof.

I kinda used that wording to ask the OP why exactly he believes everything the build mentions is true, not to question who made it, I know SC is in charge of the metabattle builds now :P

You know, I did believe metabattle, because if you check raid section, you can see all the meta builds that are actually wanted in raids. If some patch changes something, you can see a pretty fast update on metabattle. And also, guardian was NEVER in the meta section up until now. I believe this guy, he has a lot of experience and he tested it several times. I however agree he needs to show evidence.

But if he will, and he happens to be right, what then? Do you think the general consensus of guardians in raids can change? I guess being the third damager is still not good enough for these min/max pug elitists. …. Some noob don’t even know his class but put his money or time into making multiple characters according to some build guides can get there and me not…even though I watched hundreds of minutes of raid gameplay and being a fairly good player and a veteran.

I think the guardian’s position in the so called meta is currently being hindered by the addition of revenant, since it provides pretty much a guard can do, and more.
That being said guardian has never been bad, and with the current balancing and extremely low difficulty of the raids, you should have no problem killing the raid bosses even with dragonhunters in your group.

If you used to pug a lot you would know that the average pugs just copy their builds from sites like metabattle, and suddenly think they are really good players and should judge other people based on things like their builds, or even ap, while in reality they have no clue what they are doing

I’m not saying I am enjoying it… I just want to get in as a guardian. Dahkeus has a pretty important point. Overriding fire fields si not worth the protection. I really hate the state of the profession balance right now. Arenanet, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

bladex.9502:

Mortifer.2946:

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

Thaddeus.4891:

bladex.9502:

And who exactly is this person responsible for the build and why would everything he say automatically be true?

Well it seem that it’s Thor the leader of Snow Crow, which is a know speed running guild and on of the first guild to achieve no updraft gorseval. That said, I would still want to see the tests and not just believe him without proof like mister Mortifer.

I know who Thor is, but that doesn’t mean that everything he says is true

And that’s what I said too. But I answered the question. You asked ‘’And who exactly is this person’’ so I answered and say that he’s credible, but I would still want proof.

I kinda used that wording to ask the OP why exactly he believes everything the build mentions is true, not to question who made it, I know SC is in charge of the metabattle builds now :P

You know, I did believe metabattle, because if you check raid section, you can see all the meta builds that are actually wanted in raids. If some patch changes something, you can see a pretty fast update on metabattle. And also, guardian was NEVER in the meta section up until now. I believe this guy, he has a lot of experience and he tested it several times. I however agree he needs to show evidence.

But if he will, and he happens to be right, what then? Do you think the general consensus of guardians in raids can change? I guess being the third damager is still not good enough for these min/max pug elitists. …. Some noob don’t even know his class but put his money or time into making multiple characters according to some build guides can get there and me not…even though I watched hundreds of minutes of raid gameplay and being a fairly good player and a veteran.

I think the guardian’s position in the so called meta is currently being hindered by the addition of revenant, since it provides pretty much a guard can do, and more.
That being said guardian has never been bad, and with the current balancing and extremely low difficulty of the raids, you should have no problem killing the raid bosses even with dragonhunters in your group.

If you used to pug a lot you would know that the average pugs just copy their builds from sites like metabattle, and suddenly think they are really good players and should judge other people based on things like their builds, or even ap, while in reality they have no clue what they are doing

Well yeah, I agree with that. I just want to go with the flow, because as I don’t have my own squad, I have to go with these people.

I believe the meta classification was clarified recently to mean the things you’re most likely to see/use if you choose a particular class. This doesn’t necessarily mean these are the best builds for the raid, but more like “If you must bring a Guardian, have it run this.” In this context, I don’t really see anything wrong with the build; I think it is likely the best a Guardian can offer currently.

Mortifer.2946:

Okay, so your answer is no, 3rd in damage is not good enough for PUGs. Okay thank you. Back to ignoring raids then.

Sorry but I have to ask, why not just make a revenant and give that a try? If you have ascended gear you can freely swap it between a rev and a guard, and who knows, you might enjoy playing revenant in raids and have more fun than playing a guard.

There’s no need to lock yourself out of content just because your preferred class is unpopular in the current patch.

Yes, hammer guard is 3rd best dps.
No, revenant isn’t better if you want protection.
Revenant kittens up his rotation hard by focusing on protection and thanks to the marvelous balance team it barely reaches 20k dps after patch.
Hammer guard is 23k+ while losing nothing from using protection.
Currently only reason to bring a revenant is to throw him in a 3rd sub group with mesmer at VG. Everywhere else it’s useless in raids.
Also Feel My Wrath helps mesmer keep up perma quickness easier so the 50% boon duration stops being a must.
Even without Feel My Wrath you can keep perma quickness but it just makes it easier.
So bottom line is, if you don’t care about a minor dps loss and want perma protection and bit more healing then get a hammer guard.
You won’t even notice the difference in an average group, you’ll maybe notice it if you try to do no updraft gorseval but it won’t cause it to fail, others doing bad rotation will most likely be the reason you’ll fail.

Mortifer.2946:

Guys you are pretty cranky if somebody touches your stuff….sorry for being a poor guardian wanting to have fun with you.

We are not cranky. And my main is guardian so if it was in a good place I would be very happy.

It just come from nowhere and it surprise us. Pre 26th patch the dps of the guardin in theory was about 16-17k with Hammer a little tiny bit below GS/Lb at least for the first 30sec. And it was theorical max dps in a vaccum. So for all we know, the dps of a guardian in raid would be around 14-15k. At least that the kind of numbers I had. If you compare that to the 20k in raid for profession like Tempest, Reaper and Daredevil, it’s come as a surprise that someone like Thor are saying that Guardian Hammer now is the 3rd best dps.

It’s easy to proove. Just make a video at gorseval or sabetha with a Guardian using Jaxnx. If he have around 19k dps, then we’ll believe him.

And just to be clear. I’m talking about dps at the end of the fight. Peak dps isn’t the same thing. For exemple. Most of the time a Reaper will do around 19k average dps at Gorseval, but peak dps will be around 25k. I consider the average dps for the whole fight to be more important than the peak dps, but maybe that’s me.

Thank you everyone for clarifications and input. I agree, let’s wait for the video.

Cameron, I know, but I am scared to invest a lot of time again… last time it took me 1 month to prepare my guardian for tanking and it was a total waste. If I want to play revenant, I first need to do all the skill points, learn it’s rotations by heart and feel comfortable playing it. So far, I feel comfortable only with guardian and engineer, and my guardian is me… if I could swap profession but be on the same character, it would be great….I know it is not very logical reason, but it is mine.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Hammer guard is 23k+ while losing nothing from using protection.

Jeez wow, is it really? Is the build on Metabattle accurate for rotation or is there any other stipulation on hitting that number? It just feels so much higher than I’m used to seeing even fully buffed in fractals.

Considering that fresh air eles drop lightning fields every 6 secs, I don’t think a light field will really matter.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Jeez wow, is it really? Is the build on Metabattle accurate for rotation or is there any other stipulation on hitting that number? It just feels so much higher than I’m used to seeing even fully buffed in fractals.

Yes it is accurate, just keep on autoatacking and place your traps on cd. Easy.

Guys, please, make this a thing and show some videos then i will have to decide whether to farm gold for a commander tag or a change of gear

you dont “need” a tag
use a marker
the new squad markers are excellent

insanemaniac.2456:

you dont “need” a tag
use a marker
the new squad markers are excellent

true but what if I want to lead the squad :P or there is no commander

Rising Dusk.2408:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Hammer guard is 23k+ while losing nothing from using protection.

Jeez wow, is it really? Is the build on Metabattle accurate for rotation or is there any other stipulation on hitting that number? It just feels so much higher than I’m used to seeing even fully buffed in fractals.

Yep, that’s about the numbers I got as well.

If you get the chance to be fully buffed: Banners+EA+Spotter+GotL+25 might+fury+quickness+frost spirit+rev ferocity+seaweed salad (I think I got all now), you might even reach 25k.

And yeah, as “Amicable Pugs”(why does your nickname have to be kitten?!?) said, you basically cant really do something wrong. Just auto attack and you’ll reach that high numbers.

With thief and ele changes and now this, is even more funny that anet has nerfed rev’s aa.

Thorwyn.8469:

And yeah, as “Amicable Pugs”(why does your nickname have to be kitten?!?)

Anet didn’t like my previous name so they changed it.
Previously it was MagicalPubes xD

Thorwyn.8469:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Hammer guard is 23k+ while losing nothing from using protection.

Jeez wow, is it really? Is the build on Metabattle accurate for rotation or is there any other stipulation on hitting that number? It just feels so much higher than I’m used to seeing even fully buffed in fractals.

Yep, that’s about the numbers I got as well.

If you get the chance to be fully buffed: Banners+EA+Spotter+GotL+25 might+fury+quickness+frost spirit+rev ferocity+seaweed salad (I think I got all now), you might even reach 25k.

And yeah, as “Amicable Pugs”(why does your nickname have to be kitten?!?) said, you basically cant really do something wrong. Just auto attack and you’ll reach that high numbers.

That’s great to hear Thor
Now I will be a little noobish and ask, if it is still viable to have guard with this build in squad even without this optimal composition you just listed. And actually, how exactly should look the composition of the squad (squad group in which the DH is) to achieve these numbers?

Thorwyn.8469:

Yep, that’s about the numbers I got as well.

If you get the chance to be fully buffed: Banners+EA+Spotter+GotL+25 might+fury+quickness+frost spirit+rev ferocity+seaweed salad (I think I got all now), you might even reach 25k.

And yeah, as “Amicable Pugs”(why does your nickname have to be kitten?!?) said, you basically cant really do something wrong. Just auto attack and you’ll reach that high numbers.

That’s awesome; I’ll definitely have to give it a go on my VG kill next week. Thanks for doing great theorycrafting and DPS formulations!

I just realized reforging armor into zerk and weapons into assassin will cost me just ~45 gold with rebuying all runes and sigils (i got one Force in bank), which is what I have on my account So I will definitely give it a try

Mortifer.2946:

Thorwyn.8469:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Hammer guard is 23k+ while losing nothing from using protection.

Jeez wow, is it really? Is the build on Metabattle accurate for rotation or is there any other stipulation on hitting that number? It just feels so much higher than I’m used to seeing even fully buffed in fractals.

Yep, that’s about the numbers I got as well.

If you get the chance to be fully buffed: Banners+EA+Spotter+GotL+25 might+fury+quickness+frost spirit+rev ferocity+seaweed salad (I think I got all now), you might even reach 25k.

And yeah, as “Amicable Pugs”(why does your nickname have to be kitten?!?) said, you basically cant really do something wrong. Just auto attack and you’ll reach that high numbers.

That’s great to hear Thor
Now I will be a little noobish and ask, if it is still viable to have guard with this build in squad even without this optimal composition you just listed. And actually, how exactly should look the composition of the squad (squad group in which the DH is) to achieve these numbers?

Yeah sure it is, but I have to say, you might run into some kind of issues.

VG for example, you need 4ppl for the green AoE circle, preferably ranged dps classes so you wont lose out dmg. You might be able to equip a LB if you have to do it, but you will notice the dps loss.

Gorseval should be kinda fine. The large symbols and his hitbox will keep your modifier. Together to this, you do have Aegis, so you dont need to dodge the knockback attack, you can just block it.

And last but not least, Sabetha, that fight is perfekt. You can just stand there and swing your hammer. :p The Aegis there helps to block the cannon, as well as timed bombs and in case you got a nec there as well, you are helping him with healing his minions.

But yeah, Im not saying, that guardian is the best way to go. But if you want to play it and you enjoy playing it, it is by far not the worst option you can take.

Thorwyn.8469:

Mortifer.2946:

Thorwyn.8469:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Hammer guard is 23k+ while losing nothing from using protection.

Jeez wow, is it really? Is the build on Metabattle accurate for rotation or is there any other stipulation on hitting that number? It just feels so much higher than I’m used to seeing even fully buffed in fractals.

Yep, that’s about the numbers I got as well.

If you get the chance to be fully buffed: Banners+EA+Spotter+GotL+25 might+fury+quickness+frost spirit+rev ferocity+seaweed salad (I think I got all now), you might even reach 25k.

And yeah, as “Amicable Pugs”(why does your nickname have to be kitten?!?) said, you basically cant really do something wrong. Just auto attack and you’ll reach that high numbers.

That’s great to hear Thor
Now I will be a little noobish and ask, if it is still viable to have guard with this build in squad even without this optimal composition you just listed. And actually, how exactly should look the composition of the squad (squad group in which the DH is) to achieve these numbers?

Yeah sure it is, but I have to say, you might run into some kind of issues.

VG for example, you need 4ppl for the green AoE circle, preferably ranged dps classes so you wont lose out dmg. You might be able to equip a LB if you have to do it, but you will notice the dps loss.

Gorseval should be kinda fine. The large symbols and his hitbox will keep your modifier. Together to this, you do have Aegis, so you dont need to dodge the knockback attack, you can just block it.

And last but not least, Sabetha, that fight is perfekt. You can just stand there and swing your hammer. :p The Aegis there helps to block the cannon, as well as timed bombs and in case you got a nec there as well, you are helping him with healing his minions.

But yeah, Im not saying, that guardian is the best way to go. But if you want to play it and you enjoy playing it, it is by far not the worst option you can take.

Thank you for the answer. One more question about VG. If it happens that I have to go ranged, should I trade LB for hammer or mace/shield?

My group actually runs guardian on purpose to tank VG, and occasionally on sabetha as well. Most people like to talk about how high a class’ DPS (both personal and group) is and use that to gauge its value during an encounter. But what guardian gives is reliability. They give permanent protection and a little bit of healing, and their rotation is super easy. If your group is super good and everyone can stay up and keep up max dps anyway then guardian is a waste. But if you’re like 90% of groups and you have even a couple people that go down once or twice a fight and force people to res them, then there’s a decent chance you will gain DPS with a guardian, because their personal DPS isn’t even that bad to begin with.

And if we meet the dps check anyway, I would much rather run a fight that is 20-30 seconds longer where I have protection the entire time. Because while there is definitely merit to using high dps to shorten the fight, it’s nice to not have to continually res two of my four eles because they keep going down and are in disbelief of the BS boss mechanics even though the other two eles haven’t gone down at all.

Honestly OP I doubt you will get taken in raids anyway because it’s in everyone’s mind that guardian sucks. Furthermore I don’t think there is any merit to taking more than one guardian in any of the current raid encounters. But I would still say you should make that armor+weapon set because you can use them for a warrior and rev as well. Heavy zerker armor is essentially armor for 3 classes.

Dinosaurs, thank you for your input. I agree with what you say about PUG mentality, but it always changes…once majority of them see guardians as a viable option in famous guild raiding videos, it shouldn’t be that hard to find a spot. And it is true I can use it on Rev/Warr, if I ever decide on playing them.

Mortifer.2946:

Thank you for the answer. One more question about VG. If it happens that I have to go ranged, should I trade LB for hammer or mace/shield?

For Mace/Shield.
Go melee with the hammer and when you have to go into a circle, swap to longbow and the swap back to hammer when being in melee range again. But yeah, as I said, you will lose quite some dps.

Thorwyn.8469:

Mortifer.2946:

Thank you for the answer. One more question about VG. If it happens that I have to go ranged, should I trade LB for hammer or mace/shield?

For Mace/Shield.
Go melee with the hammer and when you have to go into a circle, swap to longbow and the swap back to hammer when being in melee range again. But yeah, as I said, you will lose quite some dps.

Okay thank you I understand… it would be just a last resort…ah, how I hate this min/maxing mentality of general raiding community xD does it matter whether I shoot 15K for few seconds while on green AOE? hh…

Mortifer.2946:

insanemaniac.2456:

you dont “need” a tag
use a marker
the new squad markers are excellent

true but what if I want to lead the squad :P or there is no commander

in terms of leading the squad you might be out of luck. perhaps being a lieutenant is good enough? idk, i havent tried.

if theres no commander, ask LA map chat to create/invite/(promote)/leave. or post an LFG. there are tons of nice people with tags around, especially if you perhaps offer them 50s-1g.

insanemaniac.2456:

Mortifer.2946:

insanemaniac.2456:

you dont “need” a tag
use a marker
the new squad markers are excellent

true but what if I want to lead the squad :P or there is no commander

in terms of leading the squad you might be out of luck. perhaps being a lieutenant is good enough? idk, i havent tried.

if theres no commander, ask LA map chat to create/invite/(promote)/leave. or post an LFG. there are tons of nice people with tags around, especially if you perhaps offer them 50s-1g.

I can actually stay lieutenant even if the commander completely leaves the squad?

Ok I did some math on the Guardian Hammer and here my result.

You can reach up to 23k, even near 24K with this build. BUT and it’s a big but. You need everything to reach that point.

You need ALL of your dps modifier to be up all the time. This include Seaweed Salad, cripple on target, the taget always on your symbol, max F1 teather, Scholar, etc. Not too bad, probably won’t happen in reality.

You also need all max buff. This include Grace of Land, Perma Quickness, Alacrity (affect only the trap, but still), Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Assassin’s Presence, Spotter, EA, etc. So basically, it’s true only if you are in 1 party.

PS Warrior, Druids, Chronomancer, Herald and DH.

If for exemple, you drop the Druid only and everything else is maxed, then your dps drop to 19k. If you remove the Chronomancer then you drop to about 15K, which was pretty much what we used to assign to the DH Hammer before since we usually didn’t took into consideration a Chronomancer and Druids into the party.

So far I have a really hard time to get onboard with DH is the 3rd best dps of the game. What about the Engineer, which could reach about 20K without chrono or grace of the land pre HoT? How much dps would he reach with both of those thing, even with a hard to achieve rotation? How about Reaper? Here in that video he reached 25k at about 1min16sec with all buffs.

I’m can see Guardian having a better dps than Ranger, Chronomancer and Warrior (but I would be curious to see the actual dps of the Burnzerker or a DPS Warrior). I can also understand the Guardian having a better dps than Herald, which as far as I know does around 21k dps right now. But that place Guardian 5th behind engineer, thief, tempest and Reaper, not 3rd.

Thaddeus.4891:

Ok I did some math on the Guardian Hammer and here my result.

You can reach up to 23k, even near 24K with this build. BUT and it’s a big but. You need everything to reach that point.

You need ALL of your dps modifier to be up all the time. This include Seaweed Salad, cripple on target, the taget always on your symbol, max F1 teather, Scholar, etc. Not too bad, probably won’t happen in reality.

You also need all max buff. This include Grace of Land, Perma Quickness, Alacrity (affect only the trap, but still), Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Assassin’s Presence, Spotter, EA, etc. So basically, it’s true only if you are in 1 party.

PS Warrior, Druids, Chronomancer, Herald and DH.

If for exemple, you drop the Druid only and everything else is maxed, then your dps drop to 19k. If you remove the Chronomancer then you drop to about 15K, which was pretty much what we used to assign to the DH Hammer before since we usually didn’t took into consideration a Chronomancer and Druids into the party.

So far I have a really hard time to get onboard with DH is the 3rd best dps of the game. What about the Engineer, which could reach about 20K without chrono or grace of the land pre HoT? How much dps would he reach with both of those thing, even with a hard to achieve rotation? How about Reaper? Here in that video he reached 25k at about 1min16sec with all buffs.

I’m can see Guardian having a better dps than Ranger, Chronomancer and Warrior (but I would be curious to see the actual dps of the Burnzerker or a DPS Warrior). I can also understand the Guardian having a better dps than Herald, which as far as I know does around 21k dps right now. But that place Guardian 5th behind engineer, thief, tempest and Reaper, not 3rd.

At least perma quickness should be a given in every serious raid group. Also cripple is basically permanent on the boss. The only thing that you maybe dont have always, depending of your squadcomposition, are the ranger buffs.