I’d like to see what you’ve compiled here. My thoughts:
Warrior: 30/25/0/0/15 is still going to be to “go-to” trait setup for most warriors.
Elementalist: Lots of choices, 25/10/25/10 is one I have been considering. 10 in fire seems like a pretty attractive choice to get 10 more charges on conjures, while 25 in fire gives 10% more damage to burning foes.
Thief: 25/30/0/0/15 is still optimal, arguably even better than before with increased initiative regeneration. 30/30/0/0/10 and 30/30/10/0/0 are also choices but I do not like them as much.
Mesmer: 0/30/0/20/20 is the maximum reflect trait setup, 10 in inspiration and 5 in illusions could possibly be shaved off and moved elsewhere if your group already has enough reflects.
Necro was supposed to get a buff which would of made 20/25/0/0/25 the new best. But because it didnt 30/25/0/0/15 still has higher effective power. 20/25 has extra sources of dmg tho and is better for pugs. I guess I should run the numbers to check it. :/
Ran the 20/25/0/0/25 yesterday during a large scale guild run (tarnished coast Chains of duty crusade) I just picked the traits for damage that I could find. It felt different. but I did not really notice a whole lot of boost in damage. I have not been in a dungeon yet to compare so I would be interested in what you find Spoj.
that being said. it does however appear that the “new” build would be better for pugging as you are able to stack your might and vul easier on your own and become more self sufficient. but in a, even semi organized group environment the 30/25 may still be better as you would have more consistent buff access.
random thought though. Given that the dagger is preferred dungeon weapon of choice for us. would it not make more sense to go some points into Blood magic or is the offset in modifiers to minimal?
As much as I like running a 15/15/0/20/10 + 10 type hammer build on a Guardian, the buff to Powerful Blades makes me think that switching to a full sword DPS build (something like a 10/30/0/10/20), even when in a pug, is the way to go.
For ele, is that 25/10/25/10 a proposed DPS dungeon build? I assume that’s LH build for the conjures.
has the math been done to compare with a 25/25/10/10?
If group needs PF (running only 1 ele), how would you allocate the traits to get 30 on fire? or is PF outdated?
Yes, it’s a lightning hammer build. It trades 10% dmg >90% HP for a more reliable 10% damage on burning targets. Elementalists have a lot of good trait choices, depending on the needs of the group. They are one of the few classes I would say doesn’t have a be-all, end-all meta trait build. If your group would like an ele for fury stacking, you can go persisting flames, but if your composition gives enough group fury it’s not necessary to have.
For ele, is that 25/10/25/10 a proposed DPS dungeon build? I assume that’s LH build for the conjures.
has the math been done to compare with a 25/25/10/10?
If group needs PF (running only 1 ele), how would you allocate the traits to get 30 on fire? or is PF outdated?
Yes, it’s a lightning hammer build. It trades 10% dmg >90% HP for a more reliable 10% damage on burning targets. Elementalists have a lot of good trait choices, depending on the needs of the group. They are one of the few classes I would say doesn’t have a be-all, end-all meta trait build. If your group would like an ele for fury stacking, you can go persisting flames, but if your composition gives enough group fury it’s not necessary to have.
They also seem to be one of the few classes that has a viable ranged build if you consider a staff build like the one Guan posted on the Guru forums.
I don¡t know if you are interested in engis but 30/30/0/10/0 (for perma vigor) or 30/30/0/0/10 (minmax dps).
I’ve seen quite a few people advocating the 30/30/0/0/10 build for max dps but I question this because for dungeons I would guess the average conditions you could expect to keep up would be around 5 meaning that would increase your damage by about 10% damage but that would be canceled out by tools 25 pt trait enduring damage, meaning that it would come down to the difference between target the maimed (5% extra damage)+ ~10% crit chance from traits+ the extra condition damage versus, 20% more crit damage+ 20% faster recharge on toolbelt skills (20% more static discharge/grenade barrage/BoB)+ while also having a permanent 1/2 vigor. I also think you could use scope to kind of balance out against target the weak. I’m just not sure that 30/30/0/0/10 is a higher damage build then 30/10/0/0/30 until I run the numbers.
Infamous Culverin(engi[Main]), one of every other class.
Karl Marx: “Go away! Last words are for fools who haven’t said enough!”
For ele, is that 25/10/25/10 a proposed DPS dungeon build? I assume that’s LH build for the conjures.
has the math been done to compare with a 25/25/10/10?
If group needs PF (running only 1 ele), how would you allocate the traits to get 30 on fire? or is PF outdated?
Yes, it’s a lightning hammer build. It trades 10% dmg >90% HP for a more reliable 10% damage on burning targets. Elementalists have a lot of good trait choices, depending on the needs of the group. They are one of the few classes I would say doesn’t have a be-all, end-all meta trait build. If your group would like an ele for fury stacking, you can go persisting flames, but if your composition gives enough group fury it’s not necessary to have.
I actually put together some rough calculations, not sure if i didn’t make a mistake.
It shows that 25/25/10/10 does more DPS without bolt to the heart kicking in yet, and not considering the vuln stacks for 25 air.
Though the 15% Base damage boost from 25 earth is good, i would guess why 25/25/10/10 pulled through was because of the passive DPS boost from a combination of precision and crit damage? (though ofcourse base dmg boost is usually more valuable)
trait setup was
fire VI II
air VI VII
earth VI
water IV
PF allocation if needed, fire 30, air 20
If someone could run the numbers too, that would be great.
Most of my builds are pretty much the same. Ele has definitely changed though. I’ve been running 30/20/10/10/0 – II, VI, XI, VI, VII, VI, IV.
This of course leaves me with almost no ability to grant vulnerability on my own. Running S/D I believe my only vuln attack is scepter 2. In cases where vulnerability isn’t there I would just switch to fire attune instead of water. Missing out on 10% damage, but the fury combined with arcane lightning would (I think) make up for it.
I’m thinking largely in putting myself in a solo or terrible pug scenario, in which case vulnerability will most likely always be up and my contribution would be minimal, but the amount of fury that gets stacked after my blast rotation is absurd. Pretty much over the top excessive perma fury with fire XI.
I’m still not sure whether or not it would be better to do 25/25/10/10/0. I’m just being lazy and having fun with all that fury.
“Please, you can look down on people without having to be physically above them.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
Mesmer: 0/30/0/20/20 is the maximum reflect trait setup
x/x/x/x/20 trait I’m assuming is Phantasmal Haste. As of right now it’s broken for Warden and is useless if you’re taking it to better your warden reflect uptime. Might as well shave off those 5pts and invest them in x/x/x/25/x which is a nice +15% DPS for your phantasms.
Mesmer: 0/30/0/20/20 is the maximum reflect trait setup
x/x/x/x/20 trait I’m assuming is Phantasmal Haste. As of right now it’s broken for Warden and is useless if you’re taking it to better your warden reflect uptime. Might as well shave off those 5pts and invest them in x/x/x/25/x which is a nice +15% DPS for your phantasms.
Yes, I just saw that it was broken. I am now using 0/30/0/25/15.
I don¡t know if you are interested in engis but 30/30/0/10/0 (for perma vigor) or 30/30/0/0/10 (minmax dps).
I’ve seen quite a few people advocating the 30/30/0/0/10 build for max dps but I question this because for dungeons I would guess the average conditions you could expect to keep up would be around 5 meaning that would increase your damage by about 10% damage but that would be canceled out by tools 25 pt trait enduring damage, meaning that it would come down to the difference between target the maimed (5% extra damage)+ ~10% crit chance from traits+ the extra condition damage versus, 20% more crit damage+ 20% faster recharge on toolbelt skills (20% more static discharge/grenade barrage/BoB)+ while also having a permanent 1/2 vigor. I also think you could use scope to kind of balance out against target the weak. I’m just not sure that 30/30/0/0/10 is a higher damage build then 30/10/0/0/30 until I run the numbers.
Not counting condition damage: 30/30/0/0/10 provides a little more dps than 30/10/0/0/30 or 30/30/0/10/0 (which are equal).
The problem with 30/10/0/0/30 is that you assume.scope and enduring damage.working all time. For a melee group, scope is bad. Enduring damage wont be always active.
Then add cond damage which would ve higher in 30/30 builds…
That being said I also think that 30/10/0/0/30 with adrenal implant is a very good option if you do open world and dungeons and dont want to change traits.
Ran the 20/25/0/0/25 yesterday during a large scale guild run (tarnished coast Chains of duty crusade) I just picked the traits for damage that I could find. It felt different. but I did not really notice a whole lot of boost in damage. I have not been in a dungeon yet to compare so I would be interested in what you find Spoj.
that being said. it does however appear that the “new” build would be better for pugging as you are able to stack your might and vul easier on your own and become more self sufficient. but in a, even semi organized group environment the 30/25 may still be better as you would have more consistent buff access.
random thought though. Given that the dagger is preferred dungeon weapon of choice for us. would it not make more sense to go some points into Blood magic or is the offset in modifiers to minimal?
You dont get any modifiers in blood magic. You get cooldown reduction but that doesnt effect the auto attack so its useless to us. And yes to answer your question 30/25 should still be very slightly higher dps and 20/25 is a better pug build. I dont really see much point going 30/25 anymore because necro isnt a record run class so i dont mind losing a negligible amount dps to improve versatility. The dps lost is reduced by more frequent weakening shrouds aswell. Havent actually calculated how much the difference is made up for though.
Your war build is fine. I don’t know about thief – I haven’t looked at mine post-update, but it’s probably still the same as pre-update.
Your Ele build is way-wrong. it should be 30/10/10/20/0, s/f + LH, with this rotation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeRhQ40ckQ4. If you’re pre-stacking might, drop Comet from the rotation and summon your 2nd LH at the boss’s location (it won’t aggro him).
I used boon durations in that vid, which is what I use for pugs because they’re too stupid to give me fire fields, but in guild runs I use Scholars and can still maintain perma 25 might cause everyone’s spamming Embers and Guard has PF (guild runs are normally 1x ele, 1x mes, 1x guard, 2x war – all in DPS metas).
Your mes build is wrong as well. It should be sw/f + OH sw, either: 1) 10/30/0/20/10 (max reflect dmg) or 15/30/0/25/0 (higher phantasm dmg, + vuln via f3 and your daze mantra). Both assume you need 20 in the penultimate line for focus reflects.
It’s assumed you need to provide Fury as well. If I were just focusing on dmg, I’d go 0/20/25/25/0, or 10/10/25/25/0 if I wanted Conjurer. You lose DPS via Comet, but it’s also assumed that Comet is necessary to upkeep maximum might. You wouldn’t use it if pre-stacking.
There’s almost never a ranger in guild runs, so I can’t count on that. And the 2x wars don’t usually bring FGJ. We pre-stack might with banner stomps, but once we engage, I’m the sole provider of fury and might for the group – which is fine, since I can upkeep perma fury and maximum might. This allows the wars to use something else in place of FGJ (OMM, power/prec signet, frenzy, etc). It also means the Mes doesn’t need to bring Sig of Insp, so can bring a mantra for an additional dmg modifier instead.
Using Comet and the blast heal in the rotation rather than a 2nd LH AA chain in the fire field lowers my own DPS, but it’s necessary since it gives an additional blast finisher within the same amount of time, and that additional 3 might is needed to upkeep maximum might, since I’m the only one providing it.
sure but sacrifice alot damage for buff 50 sec fury when you need half of them and other class can do it without sacrifice so much isnt a good choice for me ( i run 30 fire too if needed too but we are talking about the best choice)
Solisnake(Elementalist)Lighting Rajin (Guardian)
YamataNoOrochi(Warrior)Ziggy Th White Duke(Mesmer)Aleandro De La Vega(Ranger)
One other thing I forgot to mention: I’m constantly reminding the wars to retrait 30/10/0/0/30 before runs, to spec out of Forceful GS. I have a deeply ingrained hatred of that trait. You have no idea how infuriating it is when your biggest job is to keep might capped, but the wars insist on screwing it up for themselves by using Forceful GS.
A side benefit of designating the jobs of fury and might stacking solely to the Ele is that it is very easy to designate blame if something goes wrong. Provided everyone used Embers and the Guard has PF/HG in reserve, if might isn’t capped, you know who to blame. In the few cases when I’m playing mes/war/guard instead of Ele, and might drops below 21-24 for any significant length of time, I know that the Ele in our group isn’t doing his job, and I can use that as a justification for swapping roles with him. It’s also very useful in assessing the ability of trial ele’s to the guild.
Mesmer: 0/30/0/20/20 is the maximum reflect trait setup
x/x/x/x/20 trait I’m assuming is Phantasmal Haste. As of right now it’s broken for Warden and is useless if you’re taking it to better your warden reflect uptime. Might as well shave off those 5pts and invest them in x/x/x/25/x which is a nice +15% DPS for your phantasms.
Yes, I just saw that it was broken. I am now using 0/30/0/25/15.
This is what I have been using as well. Seems quite effective, but I have to run some numbers on the 10/x/x/x/x builds later to compare.
Mesmer: 0/30/0/20/20 is the maximum reflect trait setup
x/x/x/x/20 trait I’m assuming is Phantasmal Haste. As of right now it’s broken for Warden and is useless if you’re taking it to better your warden reflect uptime. Might as well shave off those 5pts and invest them in x/x/x/25/x which is a nice +15% DPS for your phantasms.
Yes, I just saw that it was broken. I am now using 0/30/0/25/15.
This is what I have been using as well. Seems quite effective, but I have to run some numbers on the 10/x/x/x/x builds later to compare.
I’m wondering how 0/30/0/25/15 compares with the old 10/30/0/20/10. The phantasm cooldown reduction is nice and all but with the new signet you can get 3 phantasms up right off the bat anyway. The +15% phantasm damage from inspiration makes up for the lost Domination III trait but you’re trading +100 power for this.
It’s assumed you need to provide Fury as well. If I were just focusing on dmg, I’d go 0/20/25/25/0, or 10/10/25/25/0 if I wanted Conjurer. You lose DPS via Comet, but it’s also assumed that Comet is necessary to upkeep maximum might. You wouldn’t use it if pre-stacking.
I did a few rough computations. This pure DPS setup 10/10/25/25 with assumed max might banners food and all that stuff, actually do a lot less than 30/20/10/10 without bolt to the heart.
I always could be wrong, care to do the math on your end, do a comparison and please let us know?
It’s assumed you need to provide Fury as well. If I were just focusing on dmg, I’d go 0/20/25/25/0, or 10/10/25/25/0 if I wanted Conjurer. You lose DPS via Comet, but it’s also assumed that Comet is necessary to upkeep maximum might. You wouldn’t use it if pre-stacking.
I did a few rough computations. This pure DPS setup 10/10/25/25 with assumed max might banners food and all that stuff, actually do a lot less than 30/20/10/10 without bolt to the heart.
I always could be wrong, care to do the math on your end, do a comparison and please let us know?
Guard is 10,30,0,5,25 with s/f and GS rotation (this is for basically everything)
But hammer is better for fractals 40+ (apparently, I’m working my way up a level a day and I am 36 right now will probably still use s/f cause I love it)
for protection I guess:
15,15,0,20,20
Obal has some of the top guides on guardian and for more profession videos check out Nike’s Q and A guides on youtube I know brazil has the hammer guardian guide and the updated ranger guide, rest are on nike’s if I’m not mistaken
It’s assumed you need to provide Fury as well. If I were just focusing on dmg, I’d go 0/20/25/25/0, or 10/10/25/25/0 if I wanted Conjurer. You lose DPS via Comet, but it’s also assumed that Comet is necessary to upkeep maximum might. You wouldn’t use it if pre-stacking.
I did a few rough computations. This pure DPS setup 10/10/25/25 with assumed max might banners food and all that stuff, actually do a lot less than 30/20/10/10 without bolt to the heart.
I always could be wrong, care to do the math on your end, do a comparison and please let us know?
Maybe 25/10/10/25/0
did you even think about it and roughly put the numbers in your head before posting this? i would guess no.
Don’t trust what i say, rather don’t trust all my results or anyone’s. Do the work yourself to verify
It’s assumed you need to provide Fury as well. If I were just focusing on dmg, I’d go 0/20/25/25/0, or 10/10/25/25/0 if I wanted Conjurer. You lose DPS via Comet, but it’s also assumed that Comet is necessary to upkeep maximum might. You wouldn’t use it if pre-stacking.
I did a few rough computations. This pure DPS setup 10/10/25/25 with assumed max might banners food and all that stuff, actually do a lot less than 30/20/10/10 without bolt to the heart.
I always could be wrong, care to do the math on your end, do a comparison and please let us know?
Maybe 25/10/10/25/0
did you even think about it and roughly put the numbers in your head before posting this? i would guess no.
Don’t trust what i say, rather don’t trust all my results or anyone’s. Do the work yourself to verify
I assume that keeping the 10% damage mod from full endurance to not be up 100% of the time except for certain encounters, so I like to not depend on it.
I don¡t know if you are interested in engis but 30/30/0/10/0 (for perma vigor) or 30/30/0/0/10 (minmax dps).
I’ve seen quite a few people advocating the 30/30/0/0/10 build for max dps but I question this because for dungeons I would guess the average conditions you could expect to keep up would be around 5 meaning that would increase your damage by about 10% damage but that would be canceled out by tools 25 pt trait enduring damage, meaning that it would come down to the difference between target the maimed (5% extra damage)+ ~10% crit chance from traits+ the extra condition damage versus, 20% more crit damage+ 20% faster recharge on toolbelt skills (20% more static discharge/grenade barrage/BoB)+ while also having a permanent 1/2 vigor. I also think you could use scope to kind of balance out against target the weak. I’m just not sure that 30/30/0/0/10 is a higher damage build then 30/10/0/0/30 until I run the numbers.
Not counting condition damage: 30/30/0/0/10 provides a little more dps than 30/10/0/0/30 or 30/30/0/10/0 (which are equal).
The problem with 30/10/0/0/30 is that you assume.scope and enduring damage.working all time. For a melee group, scope is bad. Enduring damage wont be always active.
Then add cond damage which would ve higher in 30/30 builds…
That being said I also think that 30/10/0/0/30 with adrenal implant is a very good option if you do open world and dungeons and dont want to change traits.
Sorry what I should’ve said was 30/15/0/0/25 this will allow you all the offensive traits for this way you lose out on target the maimed (5%) and modified ammunition (~10%)
but gain 15% crit damage and enduring damage (10%). this is not to say it will be best for all situations but I think its damage would generally be higher [will still have to run the numbers.]
Infamous Culverin(engi[Main]), one of every other class.
Karl Marx: “Go away! Last words are for fools who haven’t said enough!”
I updated the Ele meta builds – the link is in my sig. There are different ones based on what you need to give your group (some combination of might/fury/vuln; perhaps none of them). I optimized the dmg for each possible build via zerk/assassins mix, food, and bloodlust/perception stacks. I listed the assumptions I used in the first section of the guide when optimizing each build’s dmg.
Under “Elementalist:” in the original post, it’d be more accurate just to replace what you’ve currently got there with the following link: The Ele Meta: Dungeon Speed Clears
Oh and I heard for ele 0/0/0/10/10 is the new meta. Due to the trait changes, having more stats actually HURTS you rather than helps.
um…… I’m sry, what? 10 in Arcana, in order to get…… what? Blasting Staff or Renewing Stamina? …. is higher DPS than not having 10 in Arcana? …. not for any build I can see.
Oh and I heard for ele 0/0/0/10/10 is the new meta. Due to the trait changes, having more stats actually HURTS you rather than helps.
um…… I’m sry, what? 10 in Arcana, in order to get…… what? Blasting Staff or Renewing Stamina? …. is higher DPS than not having 10 in Arcana? …. not for any build I can see.
facepalm please please please understand who I am and why I post.
Also obviously the 10 in arcana is for vigorous scepter or wind borne dagger while wielding staff. #survivability!!
[ARES] And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others? Our blood has bought their lives.
