Guild Wars 2

Edit: Due to new replies being little more than passive aggressive insults, I would like to clarify that I no longer support the ideas I had stated below. I had a few unfortunate experiences with misinformed players that led me to believe that certain classes are unviable. High dps rotations and certain classes make the fights easier but any class can still successfully complete the raid. I should have asked what role/build these classes can play before jumping to my low sample size conclusion.

These elite specs and their non elite counterparts have no place in raids currently due to how tight some of the dps checks are. Is this something that needs to be addressed? I understand there are imbalances in PvP currently in which these classes can output respectable amounts of damage but in raids they have no place as the sustained damage/utility is not there.

The first boss can be mix n matched to an extent so you can run these classes but Gorseval and Sabbetha require completely optimal dps rotations. This means the classes I listed above can not make the cut. Even if they somehow manage to bring the same dps, they cannot match the utility of the other classes.

Druid: Mass heals to prevent downs as well as lets ppl dps through damage. (Far superior to guardian as the raid mechanics are not blockable and deal massive damage that regen cannot heal fast enough)

Chronomancer: Double Time Warp, Alacrity, some CC and solid damage

Revenant: Insane DPS and break bar destruction with staff 5, might sharing

Berserker: Solid dps with very important might sharing trait w/ banners

Tempest: Strong damage, important during Gorseval to kill orbs with lava font without losing too much dps for boss. Strong soft cc for spirits during Gorseval.

Now lets look at the rest:

Dragonhunters: Slightly subpar dps, strong spike damage but irrelevant in longer fights. Require target to be standing in symbol for max dps. Quickness is better applied via chrono. Damage mitigation low priority with raid mechanics. Best spot is tank but even that can be better done by a tempest or chrono.

Scrapper: Low damage, better off running condi engi. Unfortunately even condis are too slow for 2nd boss

Daredevil: Provides no team support and only has ok damage. Best build is venom share but revenants can easily replace this

Reaper: Solid damage but does not provide anywhere near the team utility that is needed.
edit: forgot about flesh golem break bar destruction

So you say 2nd boss is back to zerk meta, as condis are too slow?

There is a team that com completed the raid with a DD, so… What about not true at all?

darianturner.8096:

There is a team that com completed the raid with a DD, so… What about not true at all?

Do you have a link? I’m genuinely curious as to why they would run one.

I kind of agree i have a DH zerk with ascended weapon and trinkets and with optimal rotation im at best even with the top dps classes.Right now if you look for group as DH zerk for raid you have 3 option 1.they let you join 2. they dont invite you at all becouse people want the meta that means revs and warriors 3. they ask you if you can tank. My experience is this 2 and 3 are often what happens 1 is something rare like really rare.

Just finished it with DH and DD, its more about personal skill than classes, as long as your team “makes sense”

DeoDose.4237:

Just finished it with DH and DD, its more about personal skill than classes, as long as your team “makes sense”

You finished Gorseval with a DH and DD? Thats really impressive what were they running and why pick them? Optimal dps rotations of other classes still do more damage then either of them.

We beat gorseval with a scrapper tank and dh dps so…. Can people just stop with these certain classes have no place in raids threads?

DeoDose.4237:

its more about personal skill than classes

if only

Ted The Warrior.8674:

We beat gorseval with a scrapper tank and dh dps so…. Can people just stop with these certain classes have no place in raids threads?

Lol why? I voluntarily left my guild raid as people said they needed something like a chronomancer instead. This means even in general groups, running these classes is at best optional and only is allowed if the rest of the group can make up for the damage or only needs damage and nothing else. You have some anecdotal experience and might be part of an exceptional raid group. But not everyone is going to be at that level so they are going to be more willing to part with less useful classes than improve individually.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Ted The Warrior.8674:

We beat gorseval with a scrapper tank and dh dps so…. Can people just stop with these certain classes have no place in raids threads?

Lol why? I voluntarily left my guild raid as people said they needed something like a chronomancer instead. This means even in general groups, running these classes is at best optional and only is allowed if the rest of the group can make up for the damage or only needs damage and nothing else. You have some anecdotal experience and might be part of an exceptional raid group. But not everyone is going to be at that level so they are going to be more willing to part with less useful classes than improve individually.

You only need like 6-7k dps to beat these bosses. That’s far from an optimal rotation on any class. Any class can be used in raids. It’s more about tactics and individual play. Not the classes you bring. I’ll admit there is a base comp of like 5 classes that make raids alot easier but there are a wide variety of classes that can fill any role. Hell tempest is a better healer than druid but so far everyone has used a druid.

Most people complaining their class is bad is because they can’t beat vale guardian.

Ted The Warrior.8674:

You only need like 6-7k dps to beat these bosses. That’s far from an optimal rotation on any class. Any class can be used in raids. It’s more about tactics and individual play. Not the classes you bring. I’ll admit there is a base comp of like 5 classes that make raids alot easier but there are a wide variety of classes that can fill any role. Hell tempest is a better healer than druid but so far everyone has used a druid.

Most people complaining their class is bad is because they can’t beat vale guardian.

Vale guardian usually ends up being about people failing the boss mechanics. Gorseval is more about dps as you need to phase before the 2nd world erodes. Based on your information, someone else on my team must have not been pulling their dps but we also did not have a chronomancer which is why i volunteered to leave. Btw can I ask what your DH was running? Longbow is ok but it offers no CC so I’m not sure when to swap into it during Gorseval phases.

DH ran gs/lb. Guard doesn’t need to contribute to the breakbar. Revs and engie can take it down really quick on their own. On Gorseval guard is just filling a dps roll. So just do your normal dps stuff. Aegis the smashes. Stuff like that.

You can tell when Gorseval is going into breakbar. It’s the first thing he does at start then it’s after every erode and ghost transition phase. I usually just went for my burst during the breakbar but make sure your healer can keep you up or you’ll die to retal.

Is this really proven tho or is it just the result of napkin math and testing under perfect conditions?

rogerwilko.6895:

DeoDose.4237:

its more about personal skill than classes

if only

http://i.imgur.com/R969orQ.jpg

That is all (From a wing clearer, not sure what credentials you have – but just gonna leave this here).

Hi, I will post DD video soon… after Sabetha dies.

Ariete The Phoenix.8276:

Hi, I will post DD video soon… after Sabetha dies.

I’m still waiting Liahm!

Jam Clock Eye.4329:

rogerwilko.6895:

DeoDose.4237:

its more about personal skill than classes

if only

http://i.imgur.com/R969orQ.jpg

That is all (From a wing clearer, not sure what credentials you have – but just gonna leave this here).

I think this just put a big steaming pile all over the OP’s “theory”…

Scrapper tank is very good, probably better tank than any other class.

Reaper isn’t bad either.
The issue is that you’re forced to stack certain classes for the things they can bring due to 5-player limit on buffs. At the same time, expanding that limit to 10 players for raids would heavily shift balance and means you could technically have all important special buffs up.

There you go, http://imgur.com/nYT0H37
Video is being uploaded. It will take me forever

Other classes can work, but PUG raids won’t ask for anything other than a Revenant or a condition Engineer. The ones that don’t ask strictly for those will typically fail anyway. I’d really like to see a little more balance between the classes, PvE damage wise.

poor reapers

I don’t get it, ppl still don’t understand that Raids is way more about execution. Every Raid finish so far had other classes, yes sure there might be more “op” ways like condi war on the 2nd boss but still: If you manage to do your things right you can kill the boss, with any class.

Here you go, Daredevil on Sabetha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWCvZJ0ZFho

Not sure if troll post.. or if OP is actually serious -_-

This reminds me of when low elo players in a dota style game obsess over the current meta in professional tournaments. Unless you are going for an actual record kill, what’s most important is how comfortable each individual is on the class they are playing. Every boss was beaten with over a minute left on the enrage timer within the first week, so this idea that you need the perfect team comp and the perfect dps rotations is just baloney. I’m almost certain you could beat the raid with 10 necromancers if you set your mind to it. Prioritize team communication, and play a class you are very comfortable with so you can focus on the mechanics of the boss while you are learning.

Only one underrepresented in that lineup is Daredevil, but that’s not to say they have no place in Raids. DH are used plenty, as are Scrappers and Reapers. Not sure what you are even on about.

I’m not as far in the raid as others, but so far we killed the first boss with a Daredevil and a Reaper. In two days we probably gonna kill him with a Reapers a Daredevil and a DH.

Of course there will be profession that are better suited for a specific raid boss. But that will happen whatever Anet does. It’s just how reality work. But the VAST majority is about the skill or the players and the execution.