Different Raid Difficulty Would Satisfy Most
Again, you’re wrong. I’m on my phone so I can’t find the links, but from the beginning of raids, anet started that they will be the challenged end pve content, not make for everyone.
I’m not disagreeing with you. They totally did say that. And they also said it about plenty of other content in the game that later got nerfed.
And one dev on reddit spoke about thinking about an easy mode. Again, find me sources about nerfing actual content, or adding raid loot to the easy mode (you know, like for story dungeon…)
I never claimed that they have said anything on that topic, just that they were looking into some potential easy mode.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
I’m not disagreeing with you. They totally did say that. And they also said it about plenty of other content in the game that later got nerfed.
Sources for the later? I don’t remember them saying that (challenged end content) for something else than raid actually…
They didn’t really nerf Teq.
Oh yeah they did. A week or two in after the 2.0 version, they made it significantly easier.
You’re 100% WRONG on the teq rework (just like everything else) but quite honestly I can’t be bothered.
Teq Rising update Sept 2013 – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/September_2013
All the patchnotes throughout october (the month after) – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/October_2013
The only mention of teq is the reward change, not the fight difficulty.
At least fact check before you talk but I guess that’s too hard for you, just like raids are.
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
Ok, this just went too far. I just want to clarify some things about raids (from my experience):
- There are more ppl than 5% of players that do raids. Around 15-20% easly raid today.
- The raid wings are already easy because people already caught up with mechanics.
- Comparing to other mmos, raids in GW2 are pretty easy.
- There is no need for an easy mode. Raids are the ,,ONLY" chalenging PVE content since the beggining, screwing them will not solve the problem.
- About Lore: You can easly see the lore in a cleared instance. Just join an cleared instance and go talk with NPCs, read dialogues and see all the cinematics. Boss fights does not add anything to Lore, those are just fights….
- In case ANET will ever consider adding an easy mode, plese don’t add Legendary Armor related things to it(Collection, LI’s etc). That armor should be a reward from a hard content.
- People cry about not being able to raid but they don’t even try it. I clear all my 3 wings weekly and it takes around 2:30 – 3 hours with people from LFG. I bet that the ones complaining about time spend more than 3 hours farming HoT maps or doing w3 and pvp weekly.
- You have builds and videos on dulfy and the LFG is full of parties looking for people for raids. All you have to do is raid for 2-3 weeks with LFG until you find a good guild.
- Some advices: Best time to raid with LFG is monday. If you are a beginner and you know you’ve learn everything, you can lie about LI’s etc. If you do not find a group, then make one. There are a lot of people interested in joining training groups. I know the feeling, I was mad about raidig being for pro’s for 3 months since the release. Then I tried to learn and now I nearly got all mats for legendary armor.
- Unlike other pve contents, this is individual. You just don’t wait to get taxied into a good map. The individual work is finding a group or making one.
- Go out there and try to raid if you want that armor. If you just want to get it without work, then you’ll have to cry for the next 2 years until the will introduce another set. If you want to transform a good game into a FARMFEST, then add easy modes to everything. I hope raids will stay as they are because they are very easy. I had more problems clearing scale 100 fractal for my backpiece than finishining all wings on that week.
- I’ve started as an Engi. I’ve raided until i got enough ascended to equip an druid, then a PS and now I can equip another class cuz i have tons of chests. Don’t do the mistake to craft a second set. Just get it from raid.(last advice)
Pretty sure they buffed Teq from auto attack world boss to one which required some skill. People simply improved and realized they needed hills defense teams/turret teams etc and now it’s easy again. They didn’t really nerf Teq.
They did, several times. Two major ones were lowering his hp, followed shortly by making the megacannon cause actual damage (5% of max hp each shot, so 15% total – that last change was something that made going directly from burn to defence possible for majority of attempts. Before it only really well-organized groups with proper buffs and perfect stacking could pull that off). They’ve also adjusted scaling areas at turrets/bateries to cover the local neighborhood only, instead of the whole event zone, as they did initially.
Chak was buggy af with scaling and needed fixes, it was also open world and out of line with the other 3 HoT maps so it was justified.
Sure, that event needed some bugfixes, but it also got significantly nerfed on top of it. It went from something that rarely succeded, and needed a really good organization to something that most pug zergs can pull off.
Fractals I can maybe sorta see how the old 50 is harder but it’s not a linear comparison since they’ve reworked fracs so heavily now. People that struggled in the old 50 still struggle in the new 100, just as people that did fine still do fine. Was there really a nerf? Or did people get better/more leeway with Elite Specs?
Both. They’ve heavily redone the scaling for higher level fractals, and in the end level 100 now is easier than level 50 before. And that’s even before factoring in the power creep from elite specs.
Dungeons didn’t really get nerfed, they changed the stat scaling around and trait rework/elite spec just made everything easier.
There was at least one major (and i mean, really major) nerf in the dungeon history (when they disabled waypoiting during combat to stop the ress-rushing strategy, they also nerfed almost all dungeon bosses to compensate)
I can counter with Triple Trouble being extremely casual unfriendly, frustrating yet seen no nerfs for ages.
Even that one seen its share of nerfs, you know. Though i agree, it’s still casual unfriendly.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
I guess after 400 posts we can conclude, at the very least, that raids do introduce a lot of drama. Is it worth it? The encounters are fine but look what happens simply from using the “raid” label.
Personally I think raids are at a good spot and should keep up precisely the kind of things we have now. It’s not that hard, really, but it’s not that easy even if you think so after doing it for the 200th time, and that’s fine, I’m here to play MMO, not Dank Memes Souls. Even then, I do agree with a single criticism, and it will only become more and more relevant as time goes by: grouping up with 10 people is really hard in GW2. Between people farming their kitten off in HoT and Silverwastes, playing map completion or doing dailies elsewhere, and just logging on to get their Fractals daily, there’s not really that many people sticking around to group up at all times, and more raids and maps will only spread the population thin, as much as I want more of it. Not to mention the last straw, that there is no incentive at all to keep raiding after you’ve done the weekly schedule, so that’s even more people being shut off from your LFG pool after monday.
So how do we go about fixing that? Please recognize it does need fixing, as it would be a shame that, eventually, the only time ever possible to raid would be a couple hours during reset, because everyone has already composed their weekly raid group by then.
As amusing as the ridiculous analogies have been lately, there hasn’t been anything constructive for several pages.
It’s clear the easy moders just don’t like raids. Thankfully, there’s plenty of content that they should like.
As for their principles, I’ve it seems they are:
1. All content must be easy, and
2. Those who can only complete easy content (or those that play only content they enjoy), must have access to all rewards, including skins.
That philosophy is just not guild wars 2.
As for harder content,
- Triple trouble is a hard world boss
- Some dungeon paths are harder than others (aetherpath and arah, especially)
- Some Queens gauntlet bosses were hard (liadri especially)
- Higher level fractals are harder than their lower level counterparts
- SAB tribulation is hard
- Some open world hero points are hard
- PvP can be difficult
- WVW can be difficult
As for unique rewards,
- Dungeon armor and weapons are unique to dungeons and pvp
- Fractal weapons are unique to fractals. Golden weapons are unique to high level fractals.
- Fractal legendary is unique to high level fractals.
- PvP legendary is unique to pvp
- Several skins are unique to pvp
- New legendaries are unique to HOT
- Several skins are unique to wvw
- Several skins are unique to living story
- Several minis are linked to hard content (liadri, aetherpath)
- Several skins are unique to HOT metas
- And plenty more
For me, the single biggest issue with raids is the move away from build diversity. While there have always been meta builds, people could still play the build/gear/style they wanted without significantly hindering the group’s chances of success.
Raids changed that. They made the game more two dimensional and strongly encouraged people to play one specific style – which, in all cases, is the style that produces the highest amount of damage.
That is why I blame enrage timers for most of the issue. Unlike dungeons/fractals/etc, timers mean that damage is more important than anything – yes, even the vaunted mechanics. I think the current raid mechanics are fun, but – because of timers – there is an unnecessary barrier to entry to experience that fun.
Should their be unique rewards for overcoming the raid fights faster and inside the current timers? – yes, definitely.
But should people who enjoy their dagger/dagger vampiric necromancer or med kit engineer be – more or less – locked out of the content by unnecessary timers because they bring non-meta functionality to the fight instead of direct damage? – I vote no.
Likewise, should someone who only plays one or two hours every few weeks – and is in only exotic gear – have no way to EXPERIENCE the fights with a reasonable chance of beating it (without the exclusive reward)? – again, I think they should.
I would like to see them get back to what’s important in this game – build a holistic experience that tells a compelling story, is open to everyone and that offers unique/interesting encounters. Then go back and add challenging content (via motes, tiering, etc) in multiple areas – as it makes sense.
But, most importantly, build that holistic experience with the greater community in mind. It is how this game started and why many of us love it so much (actually why we came here in the first place).
They tweaked Teq because aspects of it didn’t work for the target audience, i.e. everyone. In contrast, ANet has said that raids are wildly successful for its target audience (people looking for challenging content) and that it has attracted others. Tequatl’s evolution is not a good example of ANet changing their mind about difficulty.
The closer match to raids are how dungeons were perceived during the first six months of the game (and beyond). Some players loved them; a lot of players thought they were too hard. ANet changed very little. (Yes, I know most people consider dungeons trivial or at least easy right now — that wasn’t true at launch and for some time afterward.)
Another close match is the difficulty level of fractals. Again, lots of people have claimed (and continue to claim) that these are too difficult for too many people. And despite many tweaks, ANet hasn’t made them easier (simplified the mechanics, sure, but the primary encounters remain largely the same).
All that is besides the point. The OP’s argument remains that offering multiple difficulty levels would satisfy “most” and that’s almost certainly not the case. It diminishes the very idea of offering unique challenging content. And for those of us who have yet to complete raids (including myself), it means fewer dev resources to work on actual new content.
I don’t want a watered down or heavily modified raid — I’d like to see ANet to what it did so well in the past: introduce lots of new things, some minor & some major. I’d rather have 3 new fractals or the living story update more frequently or things like Modus Sceleri etc rather than an Easy Mode for raids.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
For me, the single biggest issue with raids is the move away from build diversity. While there have always been meta builds, people could still play the build/gear/style they wanted without significantly hindering the group’s chances of success.
Raids changed that. They made the game more two dimensional and strongly encouraged people to play one specific style – which, in all cases, is the style that produces the highest amount of damage.
That is why I blame enrage timers for most of the issue. Unlike dungeons/fractals/etc, timers mean that damage is more important than anything – yes, even the vaunted mechanics. I think the current raid mechanics are fun, but – because of timers – there is an unnecessary barrier to entry to experience that fun.
Should their be unique rewards for overcoming the raid fights faster and inside the current timers? – yes, definitely.
But should people who enjoy their dagger/dagger vampiric necromancer or med kit engineer be – more or less – locked out of the content by unnecessary timers because they bring non-meta functionality to the fight instead of direct damage? – I vote no.
Likewise, should someone who only plays one or two hours every few weeks – and is in only exotic gear – have no way to EXPERIENCE the fights with a reasonable chance of beating it (without the exclusive reward)? – again, I think they should.
I would like to see them get back to what’s important in this game – build a holistic experience that tells a compelling story, is open to everyone and that offers unique/interesting encounters. Then go back and add challenging content (via motes, tiering, etc) in multiple areas – as it makes sense.
But, most importantly, build that holistic experience with the greater community in mind. It is how this game started and why many of us love it so much (actually why we came here in the first place).
Timers are a non-issue for anyone that actually raids. It’s almost always the mechanics. The timers are extremely generous.
That’s not to say they serve zero purpose. Tankier builds are easier to play than dps builds, because you can take more hits. Enrage timers bring parity to these builds by increasing the damage if you take too long. Feel free to bring tanky builds — just be prepared for a bit of enrage near the end of the fight.
Everyone can raid. Even someone in exotic. Even someone who plays a couple of hours a week. Even someone who wants to play d/d necro (I may be mistaken, but I think in the 10 necro sloth kill they had two power necros).
Not all builds are good. But most classes have one or two pretty good builds. And across 9 classes, that’s 18 builds you can play. It’s not like we’re stacking 10 elementalists here.
For me, the single biggest issue with raids is the move away from build diversity. While there have always been meta builds, people could still play the build/gear/style they wanted without significantly hindering the group’s chances of success.
Raids changed that. They made the game more two dimensional and strongly encouraged people to play one specific style – which, in all cases, is the style that produces the highest amount of damage.
That is why I blame enrage timers for most of the issue. Unlike dungeons/fractals/etc, timers mean that damage is more important than anything – yes, even the vaunted mechanics. I think the current raid mechanics are fun, but – because of timers – there is an unnecessary barrier to entry to experience that fun.
Should their be unique rewards for overcoming the raid fights faster and inside the current timers? – yes, definitely.
But should people who enjoy their dagger/dagger vampiric necromancer or med kit engineer be – more or less – locked out of the content by unnecessary timers because they bring non-meta functionality to the fight instead of direct damage? – I vote no.
Likewise, should someone who only plays one or two hours every few weeks – and is in only exotic gear – have no way to EXPERIENCE the fights with a reasonable chance of beating it (without the exclusive reward)? – again, I think they should.
I would like to see them get back to what’s important in this game – build a holistic experience that tells a compelling story, is open to everyone and that offers unique/interesting encounters. Then go back and add challenging content (via motes, tiering, etc) in multiple areas – as it makes sense.
But, most importantly, build that holistic experience with the greater community in mind. It is how this game started and why many of us love it so much (actually why we came here in the first place).
Timers are a non-issue for anyone that actually raids. It’s almost always the mechanics. The timers are extremely generous.
That’s not to say they serve zero purpose. Tankier builds are easier to play than dps builds, because you can take more hits. Enrage timers bring parity to these builds by increasing the damage if you take too long. Feel free to bring tanky builds — just be prepared for a bit of enrage near the end of the fight.
Everyone can raid. Even someone in exotic. Even someone who plays a couple of hours a week. Even someone who wants to play d/d necro (I may be mistaken, but I think in the 10 necro sloth kill they had two power necros).
Not all builds are good. But most classes have one or two pretty good builds. And across 9 classes, that’s 18 builds you can play. It’s not like we’re stacking 10 elementalists here.
As a PS, here’s the list of builds I’ve personally accepted into the raids I lead:
Mesmer: Chrono tank / boon share
Elementalist: Staff dps, fresh air dps, healer, tank
Necro: Condition (minions, blood magic reaper, blood magic necro), tank
Ranger: Healing druid, condition, tank
Thief: staff dps, d/d dps, venom share
Engineer: Condition, power scrapper
Guardian: Hammer dps, greatsword aegis dps, tank
Warrior: ps power, ps condi, straight condi
Revenant: standard dps (shiro, mallyx, or dwarf as second legend), condi
I’m not disagreeing with you. They totally did say that. And they also said it about plenty of other content in the game that later got nerfed.
Sources for the later? I don’t remember them saying that (challenged end content) for something else than raid actually…
https://www.engadget.com/2012/09/17/arenanet-talks-guild-wars-2-dungeon-difficulty/
There ya go. The word endgame is not specifically used. However, the references to Elite areas in GW make it clear dungeons were intended to be equivalent content. Elite areas were very much the endgame PvE in GW, especially hard mode elite areas.
Dungeons were seen as very hard by a lot of players around launch. Since then, we’ve had multiple nerfs. Most were not specifically aimed at dungeons, but some were. Players got better. [shrugs] So, sure, dungeons are seen as trivial, now — but it was not always that way.
https://www.engadget.com/2012/09/17/arenanet-talks-guild-wars-2-dungeon-difficulty/
There ya go. The word endgame is not specifically used. However, the references to Elite areas in GW make it clear dungeons were intended to be equivalent content. Elite areas were very much the endgame PvE in GW, especially hard mode elite areas.
Dungeons were seen as very hard by a lot of players around launch. Since then, we’ve had multiple nerfs. Most were not specifically aimed at dungeons, but some were. Players got better. [shrugs] So, sure, dungeons are seen as trivial, now — but it was not always that way.
Elite, as orr areas ? And players at the begenning of the game were not very comfortable with their class. So something that was hard at the begenning may be trivial today with the actual meta.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/countdown-to-launch-raids/
still not the same as this for me ^^ I continue to think that the target audience is not the same between raid and dungeon. Thus, i can agree to a nerf to dungeon, as more players were involved. And the powercreep didn’t help of course.
But something is true about dungeons and raids, players are becomming better, and wing 1 is becomming trivial in a pug settings.
(edited by Hypairion.9210)
Is this a competition for the longest post? Have any of you hit the cap and had to shorten these?
Is this a competition for the longest post? Have any of you hit the cap and had to shorten these?
(( gives Jerus Whiskey and beer))
good to see you again old man!
Is this a competition for the longest post? Have any of you hit the cap and had to shorten these?
(( gives Jerus Whiskey and beer))
good to see you again old man!
Score! Glad to see familiar names around still, gotten to play with some over the last couple weeks too.
https://www.engadget.com/2012/09/17/arenanet-talks-guild-wars-2-dungeon-difficulty/
There ya go. The word endgame is not specifically used. However, the references to Elite areas in GW make it clear dungeons were intended to be equivalent content. Elite areas were very much the endgame PvE in GW, especially hard mode elite areas.
Dungeons were seen as very hard by a lot of players around launch. Since then, we’ve had multiple nerfs. Most were not specifically aimed at dungeons, but some were. Players got better. [shrugs] So, sure, dungeons are seen as trivial, now — but it was not always that way.
Elite, as orr areas ? And players at the begenning of the game were not very comfortable with their class. So something that was hard at the begenning may be trivial today with the actual meta.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/countdown-to-launch-raids/
still not the same as this for me ^^ I continue to think that the target audience is not the same between raid and dungeon. Thus, i can agree to a nerf to dungeon, as more players were involved. And the powercreep didn’t help of course.
But something is true about dungeons and raids, players are becomming better, and wing 1 is becomming trivial in a pug settings.
That’s exactly what happened to dungeons. Picture wing 1 in 2.5 years.
Orr? No, nothing like the elite areas in GW.
I’ll agree, though, that the target audience expanded from dungeons to raids. For all that Colin Johanson referred to GW2 explorable dungeons as the game’s equivalent to raids, ANet learned that the content title “raids” has a certain cachet. Thus, GW2 raids were intended to be attractive to the audience that dungeons were originally aimed at. They were also intended to appeal to players who disdained GW2 because it had nothing called raids.
Is this a competition for the longest post? Have any of you hit the cap and had to shorten these?
i have, before i dropped back to making short, jocular posts
Nalhadia – Kaineng
Raids were never meant to be easy. Raids were even planned to be a guild only content. ANet though that this content would be so hard that only experienced guild teams will be able to make it thourgh. Full-ascened no exceptions etc.
Why would they like to make easy mode when:
- More players than they have ever expected plays raids. They didn’t expect that PuGs can organize, talk about team compositions, traits and specific tactics, because you can kill the boss using multiple tactics.
- Players manage to kill bosses wearing Exotic/Rare gear.
- Players manage to kill bosses in the 4,5,6,7,8,9-man groups.
- Challenge motes are not so hard after all.
- Players organize teaching runs, create guides and give tips on forums and reddit.
Raid Team talking on raids before HoT release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FUkGRxuxV0&index=31&list=PLDCvogxNKN3nyxCvzZLKShAQEzlSTOfmO
Raid community after only 8 months works better than any PvP or WvW community. I don’t see any teaching runs for PvP or WvW. If you go there you have to learn everything yourself. Even in fractals. While raid community offers planty of opportunities to learn how to raid and how to better utilize your profession.
Players managed to overcome all the impossible things, challenge motes and created their own hard mode by decreasing number of players in squad or using Masterwork/Rare/Exotic gear. That doesn’t look like a content which needs an easy mode.
(edited by Assic.2746)
I think a lot of people are looking at this from a singular perspective. They enjoy raids as they are now and are either afraid that change will somehow reduce the challenge or they don’t want more casual players to somehow “corrupt” how people view raids.
There are a lot of different playstyles out there – and a lot of players who would like to experience raids without having to worry about the build/group makeup/etc the hardcore community enjoys.
And there is nothing wrong with that.
While I can understand worries about stretching resources (but don’t think it would be that bad if implemented cleverly), I have real issue with the idea that offering a more casual raiding experience will somehow diminish the experience currently offered.
Not wanting someone to have something because you feel it is something only you get (in a video game) is not good for the game community. I try to never use these words, but they fit this situation – get over it.
More players raiding (even at multiple levels) is good for the game. It gives devs reason to continue development and helps acclimate people who would never raid to the content – deepening the pool of potential raiders for the future.
And finally, if you cannot make your argument without terms like “lazy”, “crybaby”, “elitist”, etc, then you do not have a strong argument. You’re simply resorting to insults to try and make people feel uncomfortable about posting. To people like Assic, who avoid doing that and made cogent arguments (which I do disagree with, btw), thank you. To the others who cannot go three sentences without having to put someone down – please stop.
(edited by Blaeys.3102)
Why would they like to make easy mode when:
- More players than they have ever expected plays raids. They didn’t expect that PuGs can organize, talk about team compositions, traits and specific tactics, because you can kill the boss using multiple tactics.
- Players manage to kill bosses wearing Exotic/Rare gear.
- Players manage to kill bosses in the 4,5,6,7,8,9-man groups.
- Challenge motes are not so hard after all.
- Players organize teaching runs, create guides and give tips on forums and reddit.
Raid Team talking on raids before HoT release: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FUkGRxuxV0&index=31&list=PLDCvogxNKN3nyxCvzZLKShAQEzlSTOfmO
Raid community after only 8 months works better than any PvP or WvW community. I don’t see any teaching runs for PvP or WvW. If you go there you have to learn everything yourself. Even in fractals. While raid community offers planty of opportunities to learn how to raid and how to better utilize your profession.
I expect anet to make an easy mode for the same reason the core game went F2P. They were statisfied with the sales of the core game, yet they opened the gates to everyone to make it more accessible.
I wouldn’t expect an easy mode if this was any other game, raids are meant to be the end game content, however, right now in GW2 that is the only type of challenging end game content, meaning there is no middle ground for those who desire it. If you think about any game that has raiding, vast majority of them also have dungeons.
You might say fractals can substitute the dungeon experience, but I don’t see that happening for several reasons ( I’ll write them down if you ask me to). To cut it short , those who purchased the expansion have no access to new group content if they are not into raiding. This solely I think should be enough for anet to make alternate version(s) of the current raid
(edited by Scipio.3204)
For those interested, check this out:
Vale Guardian world boss (also known as the first raid boss) in Bloodstone Fen.
Anet should add harder difficulty choice to raids. Not touch timer, but boss dmg, at vg will not be 3/4 seekers but 6/8. At gorse will not be 4 spirits, but 6. At sabetha FT every 30sec and cannon 20sec…etc… this can be interesting… with some build changes, squad compositions… why not make us vote anet
“Doctor suggest me, to stop play with engi because my fingers are broken.
So.. I start play scrapper. "
So.. I start play scrapper. "
The devs are looking into difficulty settings and it’s going to be ok peeps.
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
The devs are looking into difficulty settings and it’s going to be ok peeps.
You seem to have gotten your wish. Go play the new map and play loot pinata with “Definitely Not Vale Guardian”. You can even get “Definitely not Raid Rewards”.
This is the best thing the devs could have done. Now can we lock topic ?
The devs are looking into difficulty settings and it’s going to be ok peeps.
You seem to have gotten your wish. Go play the new map and play loot pinata with “Definitely Not Vale Guardian”. You can even get “Definitely not Raid Rewards”.
This is the best thing the devs could have done. Now can we lock topic ?
Lmao. I was thinking the same thing when I did the event chain.
The devs are looking into difficulty settings and it’s going to be ok peeps.
You seem to have gotten your wish. Go play the new map and play loot pinata with “Definitely Not Vale Guardian”. You can even get “Definitely not Raid Rewards”.
This is the best thing the devs could have done. Now can we lock topic ?
No no my friend, I’m talking about the actual raid and the difficulty settings the devs are looking into.
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
Casuals asked for raid nerf, got fractal buffs.
GG Anet.
No no my friend, I’m talking about the actual raid and the difficulty settings the devs are looking into.
Are you talking about the dev sentence in april in reddit, or did I miss a more recent announcement ?
Édit: just saw the dev com on reddit about how T4 fractals (and Bloom T4 particularly) are meant as a step to raid difficulty. Anet think that T4 are too easy, so they want to buff them in order to make people used to the raid difficulty. Nice move !
(edited by Hypairion.9210)
This might not be the most popular opinion, but I think part of the appeal of raids is that there is no shortcut to it. You either choose to learn, practice and eventually master the mechanics, or you don’t. It’s a hurdle that you cannot circumvent and there is no easy mode.
I know it sounds quite elitist and maybe it is. I myself did not yet find the time and group to actually try out the raids in GW2, but I raided quite a bit in WoW and it is true (at least for me) that many bosses just lost their prestige after they introduced easy mode raiding (LFR). It doesn’t matter if the loot that drops has a different color or not, you are just not supposed to be able to kill some prestigious bosses if you didn’t learn the fight and mastered the mechanics.
It’s like if the primary villain in a book/movie is defeated by a kid or something. You have this picture in your head that this guy is powerful and cunning, and all that gets destroyed if some random kid can just easily kill him. That’s why in many stories someone who is not supposed to be defeatable gets e.g. wounded beforehand, so you can tell yourself that he would have been victorious if not for the handicap. It still feels a kitteneesy though.
It’s like creating an easy mode for legendary weapons with different colors but same models. The point of a legendary is that you worked for it and that you earned the right to wear it, that’s what makes it legendary. If you want an easy mode legendary, than make it something completely different (Anet fortunately introduced ascended weapons), but don’t make a watered down version of something that has value precisely because it is not watered down.
I don’t know if this is more important than giving more players access to the content, but I think it might be the primary reason many raiders don’t want an easy mode for raids, even if the rewards are completely different. Because part of the reward is to be able to kill the bosses in the first place.
I’m a little late on this but I figured I’d leave my 2 cents. (*note I did not read all previous pages either)
I agree with OP, and the reason for that is solely due to the time restricted bosses. If you don’t get them killed in a certain amount of time, they get a 200% dmg boost? Basically you kill it in time or you lose completely. Now before you give me one of the ever so eloquent “GET GUD!” responses, hear me out.
I have been playing guild wars since 2006; yes I’m one of those gw1 players blah blah blah. But see, the thing about this franchise is that it’s always been inclusive. And what I mean by that is that so long as you had the time, and you were the right level, and had the right level gear, and had a group of people (who worked together and knew the mechanics), you got to play every piece of content available. Well that was until now. Now with these huge timed increases of damage, your time and effort is not enough, working together and learning mechanics is not enough. Now you need all that, PLUS specific sets of armor, weapons, and accessories in order to put out a specific amounts of damage, or do specific things. Never, and I mean NEVER, in a decade of playing this franchise have I ever needed to change my equipment, in order to play a part of the game. Never have my equipment outweigh my teamwork and mechanics knowledge. Never did I need fall into a META, in order to defeat a boss. Until now.
You can say “Well SkinnyT, just go get the equipment then!”, but the problem with that is that you now pigeonhole people into specific professions and roles. Chances are that if you are casual player you don’t have the time to acquire all these very specific armors sets to raid with, specially if you have multiple characters. This means you can never step in, on a whim and fulfill a role needed in the team. It yet another restriction.
Listen, I get it people want to be “hardcore” and what not, and that’s fine. It’s fine to want to be challenged. What is not fine, is to kitten on other people for wanting to be able to experience ALL of the content that they have paid for. No one is saying “NERF!”, they are saying “Make a more accessible replica of it.”. Adding difficulty tiers to raids does not take away from players who want the extra challenge. It simply allows everyone to experience it.
I have been playing guild wars since 2006…
Never did I need fall into a META, in order to defeat a boss. Until now.
So you want to tell me that you have never used this website with META builds?
http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/PvX_wiki
I don’t buy it.
(edited by Assic.2746)
I always liked how FF XIV tackled this. They have “normal mode” for the casuals which can be easily cleared by pugs with significantly crappier rewards, and then there’s savage mode, for the organized statics with quality rewards.
Could just remove the ability to attain LI’s from normal raids, so it’s more like a way to learn the encounter/mechanics or something.
Tarnished Coast – Revenant main
I have been playing guild wars since 2006…
Never did I need fall into a META, in order to defeat a boss. Until now.So you want to tell me that you have never used this website with META builds?
http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/PvX_wikiI don’t buy it.
Never to defeat a boss, or to play regularly no. Only time I ever used that was for farming or speed clears, which is not the case here. If you were to look at my builds in gw1, most of them don’t make any sense. They were made to work with my friends builds which were also kind of crazy. They were effective, and allowed me to play however I wanted, which is the most important thing for me.
Dungeons, UW, FOW, Ugoz, The Deep, DoA, I did them all with my friends and our weird setups. Some places, sometimes, took way more time than they should have, mean while others like UW(revamped) we had it down to a science and our weird team setups and builds were just a quick and effective as the metas at the time.
Just by taking off the time restrictions on the bosses; that alone would allow way more people to participate in the raids (and I say this because I have over a dozen people who have said that to me). If they have 10 hours to spare inside a raid LET THEM! Seriously tell me. How does someone playing through an easier version of the raids, not getting any achievements, not getting as much money, and having a lowered loot table, take away from your already existing challenging experience? It doesn’t.
When you say there should only be one tier/one challenge level you’re taking an elitist stance on this matter. You’re saying that because others don’t spend as much time in the game as you do, they shouldn’t get to experience certain parts of the game either. But guess what? We all paid for this game. A person who plays 3 hours a day/ 7 days a week, should not have precedence over a person who can only play a few hours once a week.
A challenging raid, and an accessible raid are mutually exclusive, BUT with tiers they don’t have to be. Same content, but for different people. It’s a win win, so I don’t understand why are people arguing against it!?
Just by taking off the time restrictions on the bosses; that alone would allow way more people to participate in the raids (and I say this because I have over a dozen people who have said that to me). If they have 10 hours to spare inside a raid LET THEM! Seriously tell me. How does someone playing through an easier version of the raids, not getting any achievements, not getting as much money, and having a lowered loot table, take away from your already existing challenging experience? It doesn’t.
From a pure reward perspective the system you stated causes more harm than good.
Strictly due to it being unrewarding, it will have little to no chance for succeeding in its goal. The main complaint from the clamoring crowd for an easy mode is they want it easy and rewarding. Obviously that cannot happen because if it is both easy and rewarding you get into fragmentation of playerbases competing for the same crowd. As many MMO’s before us have seen this is a bad thing and leads to players taking the path of least resistance rather than them actually using the modes as intended stepping stones for improvement.
So sorry, when it comes to does it harm anyone the question is a simple yes. It harms the people it should be helping by not actually teaching them anything because they will just ignore mechanics due to how simplistic you’d have to make the mode for it to be readily accessible.
The people that can’t clear the raid don’t fail because of enrage anyway. They fail because they don’t manage to do the mechanics properly and/or have no idea how to play their class.
SALT did that 1 hour matthias kill a while back which is wayyyy into enrage territory so again timers are not an issue except for a few bosses which have time limiting mechanics such as Gors, Sabetha, Trio, Sloth. Pretty much every other boss you could just full nomads and take 1 hour to kill it yet I don’t see any of you people complaining actually trying to put together a full nomads group to do so.
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
Pretty much every other boss you could just full nomads and take 1 hour to kill it yet I don’t see any of you people complaining actually trying to put together a full nomads group to do so.
That would be exactly the thing OP is trying to avoid though. Need for a specific group setup with specific gear. The group he is envisioning would have a normal range of pve builds and armor sets. Them being in full nomad would be even less likely than them being a perfect meta setup
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Pretty much every other boss you could just full nomads and take 1 hour to kill it yet I don’t see any of you people complaining actually trying to put together a full nomads group to do so.
That would be exactly the thing OP is trying to avoid though. Need for a specific group setup with specific gear. The group he is envisioning would have a normal range of pve builds and armor sets. Them being in full nomad would be even less likely than them being a perfect meta setup
You mean like that definitely not VG in Bloodstone Fen….
Just sayin’ that is your easy mode where everyone can run whatever PvE build they desire, including naked and be effective.
Pretty much every other boss you could just full nomads and take 1 hour to kill it yet I don’t see any of you people complaining actually trying to put together a full nomads group to do so.
That would be exactly the thing OP is trying to avoid though. Need for a specific group setup with specific gear. The group he is envisioning would have a normal range of pve builds and armor sets. Them being in full nomad would be even less likely than them being a perfect meta setup
Nomads is just an example, you can use cleric/nomad/soldier etc anything really. But of course people refuse to do anything and expect rewards to be handed to them.
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
…So sorry, when it comes to does it harm anyone the question is a simple yes. It harms the people it should be helping by not actually teaching them anything because they will just ignore mechanics due to how simplistic you’d have to make the mode for it to be readily accessible.
What do you mean harm the people by not teaching them? This is not a competition or job training. No-one’s looking for a career path. This is a game, as in method of entertaining people. If there is an easy mode (no rewards), Normal mode (regular rewards), and hard mode (extra rewards), most people get to experience the content, and those who complete the challenge gets rewarded for it accordingly.
The people that can’t clear the raid don’t fail because of enrage anyway. They fail because they don’t manage to do the mechanics properly and/or have no idea how to play their class.
SALT did that 1 hour matthias kill a while back which is wayyyy into enrage territory so again timers are not an issue except for a few bosses which have time limiting mechanics such as Gors, Sabetha, Trio, Sloth. Pretty much every other boss you could just full nomads and take 1 hour to kill it yet I don’t see any of you people complaining actually trying to put together a full nomads group to do so.
Yes people do fail a lot because of enrage, and I say that because I have been in several groups that work together, and are doing steady damage, and have the mechanics down, but simply can not keep up after enrage. And I don’t mean “oh we got there once and died”, I mean consistently getting to the enrage point, and then getting wiped.
And getting into a full set of anything is a big part of the problem. Unless you and your group already own the full sets, there is a whole new level of preparation that goes on before even trying the raid. A lot of casual players simply don’t have all this time to just prep for a raid. Let alone schedule in regular play times. People live in different time zones, they have jobs, have kids, got to college, have social lives, and have other interest besides gw2.
Again an easy mode (no rewards), a normal mode (regular rewards), and a hard mode (extra rewards) would give the people access to the content WHILE AT THE SAME TIME rewarding those who have the time to complete the more changing versions of that same content. There simply is no downside to this. When you say you don’t want a tier system you’re saying you want exclusivity on raids, and that’s simply not fair for everyone else who bought the game and simply don’t have as much time to put into as you do.
The thing is you cannot simply implement such 2 additional modes due to the boss mechanics. It would cost a tremendous effort to install them. But I would be fine with Anet picking the devs from LS and fractals to develop these 2 modes while the raid team is completely focussing on new raid content. Don’t blame the company for content drought then because you would have to suffer maybe a year before you get new stories or fracs.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
~snip~
But I would be fine with Anet picking the devs from LS and fractals to develop these 2 modes while the raid team is completely focussing on new raid content. Don’t blame the company for content drought then because you would have to suffer maybe a year before you get new stories or fracs.
I would be fine with them not making any more raids and start making something that caters to a larger playerbase.
/sarcasm
Your post was so toxic and selfish that I had to respond. Can we please all leave our elitism out of the discussion for once?
…So sorry, when it comes to does it harm anyone the question is a simple yes. It harms the people it should be helping by not actually teaching them anything because they will just ignore mechanics due to how simplistic you’d have to make the mode for it to be readily accessible.
What do you mean harm the people by not teaching them? This is not a competition or job training. No-one’s looking for a career path. This is a game, as in method of entertaining people. If there is an easy mode (no rewards), Normal mode (regular rewards), and hard mode (extra rewards), most people get to experience the content, and those who complete the challenge gets rewarded for it accordingly.
As you put it, this is a game.
People play them for fun and to be rewarded. If you make a mode with no rewards, it’s DoA. If you make a mode even slightly easier yet competitive on the reward front it’s going to be the go to mode.
If you make a mode whose sole purpose is being easy, not only does it defeat the point of it being challenging content, it has to be so watered down that your average (read substandard gameplay) isn’t punished. This doesn’t help teach them the mechanics nor does it get them into raid, or ready for other challenges to come.
Just look at the recent Swampland change…so many people who thought they were good are flopping over like fishes out of water. This is essentially what you’d be promoting with an easy mode old swamp relative to new swamp. When in reality all people need to do is adapt.
I would be fine with them not making any more raids and start making something that caters to a larger playerbase.
/sarcasmYour post was so toxic and selfish that I had to respond. Can we please all leave our elitism out of the discussion for once?
Using sarcasm and unable to see when others do so. ^^
My post had nothing to do with elitism, you just haven’t understood it, poor you.
Thread’s 9 pages long, arguments circling, nothing new to read. And when people still take things like “develop easy modes” into consideration, I can’t take them seriously any longer. Fact would be: Either raiders have to suffer content drought or the crowd that wants easy mode should wait much longer for new LS content. I prefer the second because we need harder content in this game regularly.
The last update with LS3 has shown that easy content is ridiculous because all story parts + meta achievements can be done in one single day if you go for it – it’s not even grinding. I, myself, haven’t played much but I finished story and meta in no time – like everyone on my friend’s list (the usual gw2 guy, dedicated raiders, farmers, speed clear guys, parents and so on). And now we will see the next episode in 2-3 months!?
It’s way better to have some encounters which are time consuming and giving a challenge over days or weeks – like the actual raids.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
The update is so small because Anet thinks they have to invent the wheel over and over again, adding new masteries, currencies and other collectible stuff instead of actual playable content. MO stating that this updates is as big as 8 or 9 ls stories from the past are just ridiculous if you look at the stuff that is playable and not made for convenience of the players, which is a major focus of Anet for years as it seems.
I support an easy mode that literally has no rewards, only existing for story purposes (also shouldn’t get achievements from easy mode).
My entire guild has basically taken a 6 month break, we came back with living story 3, but it seems to continue from the raid story. We probably won’t be playing unless we can experience the raid story first.
My entire guild has basically taken a 6 month break, we came back with living story 3, but it seems to continue from the raid story. We probably won’t be playing unless we can experience the raid story first.
Your assumption is wrong. The LS3 starts where the HoT story ended.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
I support an easy mode that literally has no rewards, only existing for story purposes (also shouldn’t get achievements from easy mode).
My entire guild has basically taken a 6 month break, we came back with living story 3, but it seems to continue from the raid story. We probably won’t be playing unless we can experience the raid story first.
It definitely continues from the raid story – something many of us have been trying to tell them all week – even as others try to deny it.
It is good to see a fresh perspective from returning players on this point. The more they hear this is needed, the more likely we are to see them do something.
~snip~
But I would be fine with Anet picking the devs from LS and fractals to develop these 2 modes while the raid team is completely focussing on new raid content. Don’t blame the company for content drought then because you would have to suffer maybe a year before you get new stories or fracs.I would be fine with them not making any more raids and start making something that caters to a larger playerbase.
/sarcasmYour post was so toxic and selfish that I had to respond. Can we please all leave our elitism out of the discussion for once?
There is definitely a toxic undercurrent of posts on this forum designed to belittle people and encourage them not to post.
If you go back through these threads (and even moreso on reddit), pretty much anyone daring to criticize raids in any way is immediately attacked by the same small group of people. It gets to the point where people don’t want to get involved with/continue the conversation just to avoid having to deal with it (believe it or not, I even received a death threat on reddit).
People need to make counterpoints and lucid arguments to what people say – not attack those people directly (that is one of the surest signs of a weak argument).