Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Different Raid Difficulty Would Satisfy Most
Seriously peeps, there is nothing wrong with having difficulty settings at all… and having scaling rewards for the different settings… and getting more players involved with endgame content and increasing retention.
Raids are not like players needing to compete for a 200k prize pool where only the best of the best twitch players can win… Raids are end game content to extend the life of the game for players and for fun.
Other game companies were smart enough to be inclusive with raids, and the devs here are smart enough to figure it out and implement… Anet is not some dirt poor company struggling to raise funds. It’s not like they need to devote millions of dollars and 50 devs either to open the raid doors more… Anet is also capable and competent and creative enough to do whatever they put their focus on. Let’s not make it seem like they would have to rewrite the game engine, or lack the talent, to make difficulty settings happen…
Given the lack of new content in other areas of the game (notwithstanding the recent patch, which I do enjoy) I am concerned about putting resources to something with minimal impact at best and harmful to normal mode at worst.
Ok, fair enough, but this difficulty setting thing doesn’t require redesigning every part of the raid wings.
Timer adjust options.
5 player, 10 player, 15 player options.
Enemy level scaling options.
Allowing players to be rezzed option.
Boons option like in aerodrome. Debuff option preventing boons.
There are creative ways to do this that don’t break the bank or require a year of polls, meetings, and cdis to figure out and do. Not saying that in 5 minute it’s done, but It can be done creatively.
I’m happy to be corrected, but I don’t think anet has the systems in place to quickly add these options.
Plus, determining the reward is a whole other can of worms.
The devs have the capability to add these options. Look at the aerodrome dps area.
Normal mode- 1 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Current mode- 2 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Hard mode- 2 LI per boss and 1 legendary armor crafting mat per boss at 1x per week.
Vendor that sells cool stuff for LI as well.
…These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly.
“These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly. " But they are, your suggestion is really easy to see how awfull it is. Current mode only giving 1 more LI per boss ?? Are you serious?? People would just farm easy mode for a couple of months more and current mode would be desert land for pugs.
I saw the " raids aren’t meant to be pugged" argument quite often on this forum, why should we consider them?
EDIT: I mean if that is your only argument against it.
I think if someone doesnt draw it you cant understand. No, its not the only reason.
Another one giving LI on easy mode is the same that asking for Ad Infinitum only doing Tier 1 fractals.
Another reason, you talk about accessibility making sure pugs never get a group to do the current raids ( as opposite of now that you can easiliy pug).
Another reason you are trying to change both the target audience and the purpose of the raids.
You are full of non-sense, you create a problem that doesnt exists, and give solution that actually will create problens that dont exist now.Have to agree, my previous statement was misunderstandable. What I meant is if we create a tiered difficulty we wouldn’t need to consider PUGs on harder difficulty , since those won’t be meant for them, but currently PUGs have no alternative. In that principle anet even could create harder raids than currently, since I see some people asking for it.
I also have a proposal for rewards, since this seems to be the most sensitive topic. Currently raids seem to have about 1 weapon set, a few unique ones, two backpack and ofc the armor. All anet needs to do is create a weapon set similar to these ones, a few unique ones, and add them to both easy mode and hard mode.
Regarding the legendary armor How about this: Instead of the easy version dropping Legendary Insights, it will drop something like Legendary Insight fragment. This fragment works exactly like Legendary Insight in the legendary armor recipes, but if you use these you won’t get the envoy armor skins, just the utility of legendary armor (eg. stat swapping). If you want to upgrade your armor to envoy in the future you can with 25 LI.
bamm, everything stayed exclusive, a wider audience gets repeatable content, as far as I can see, everyone can be happy.
And just because you and I don’t have problems, doesn’t mean they don’t exist. No need to name call me or insult me to reinforce your arguments.
First bold part, so your solution is to remove the current raids from the PUGs grasp?? A lot of people that like to pug the current raid wont, and will now be moved to easy mode? You really think that people want it for the sake that people that cant raid now MAYBE can raid on easier mode?? See how you are creating a problem for the people that are happy pugging raids just because people that are not the target audiance want the rewards.
Now the second and third bold part, you contradict yourself, you say it remain exclusive but you can get on the easy mode on a slower pace, so its no exclusive. Exclusive mean you cant get another way be it slower or faster.
Given the lack of new content in other areas of the game (notwithstanding the recent patch, which I do enjoy) I am concerned about putting resources to something with minimal impact at best and harmful to normal mode at worst.
So, the same as many players thought about Raids when they were first unveiled.
First bold part, so your solution is to remove the current raids from the PUGs grasp?? A lot of people that like to pug the current raid wont, and will now be moved to easy mode?
They won’t be moved. They might move themselves, of course, if they decide to prefer that way. On the other hand, since, by stated design intention Raids were not meant to be pugged (there are several dev statements to that end) retaining pugs in this mode should not be considered an important point.
See how you are creating a problem for the people that are happy pugging raids just because people that are not the target audiance want the rewards.
Nah. People that are happy pugging raids now will not be prevented from doing so. The people that will move are the ones that are unhappily pugging raids now.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Seriously peeps, there is nothing wrong with having difficulty settings at all… and having scaling rewards for the different settings… and getting more players involved with endgame content and increasing retention.
Raids are not like players needing to compete for a 200k prize pool where only the best of the best twitch players can win… Raids are end game content to extend the life of the game for players and for fun.
Other game companies were smart enough to be inclusive with raids, and the devs here are smart enough to figure it out and implement… Anet is not some dirt poor company struggling to raise funds. It’s not like they need to devote millions of dollars and 50 devs either to open the raid doors more… Anet is also capable and competent and creative enough to do whatever they put their focus on. Let’s not make it seem like they would have to rewrite the game engine, or lack the talent, to make difficulty settings happen…
Given the lack of new content in other areas of the game (notwithstanding the recent patch, which I do enjoy) I am concerned about putting resources to something with minimal impact at best and harmful to normal mode at worst.
Ok, fair enough, but this difficulty setting thing doesn’t require redesigning every part of the raid wings.
Timer adjust options.
5 player, 10 player, 15 player options.
Enemy level scaling options.
Allowing players to be rezzed option.
Boons option like in aerodrome. Debuff option preventing boons.
There are creative ways to do this that don’t break the bank or require a year of polls, meetings, and cdis to figure out and do. Not saying that in 5 minute it’s done, but It can be done creatively.
I’m happy to be corrected, but I don’t think anet has the systems in place to quickly add these options.
Plus, determining the reward is a whole other can of worms.
The devs have the capability to add these options. Look at the aerodrome dps area.
Normal mode- 1 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Current mode- 2 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Hard mode- 2 LI per boss and 1 legendary armor crafting mat per boss at 1x per week.
Vendor that sells cool stuff for LI as well.
…These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly.
“These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly. " But they are, your suggestion is really easy to see how awfull it is. Current mode only giving 1 more LI per boss ?? Are you serious?? People would just farm easy mode for a couple of months more and current mode would be desert land for pugs.
“Current mode- 2 LI per boss”… “2”
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
Seriously peeps, there is nothing wrong with having difficulty settings at all… and having scaling rewards for the different settings… and getting more players involved with endgame content and increasing retention.
Raids are not like players needing to compete for a 200k prize pool where only the best of the best twitch players can win… Raids are end game content to extend the life of the game for players and for fun.
Other game companies were smart enough to be inclusive with raids, and the devs here are smart enough to figure it out and implement… Anet is not some dirt poor company struggling to raise funds. It’s not like they need to devote millions of dollars and 50 devs either to open the raid doors more… Anet is also capable and competent and creative enough to do whatever they put their focus on. Let’s not make it seem like they would have to rewrite the game engine, or lack the talent, to make difficulty settings happen…
Given the lack of new content in other areas of the game (notwithstanding the recent patch, which I do enjoy) I am concerned about putting resources to something with minimal impact at best and harmful to normal mode at worst.
Ok, fair enough, but this difficulty setting thing doesn’t require redesigning every part of the raid wings.
Timer adjust options.
5 player, 10 player, 15 player options.
Enemy level scaling options.
Allowing players to be rezzed option.
Boons option like in aerodrome. Debuff option preventing boons.
There are creative ways to do this that don’t break the bank or require a year of polls, meetings, and cdis to figure out and do. Not saying that in 5 minute it’s done, but It can be done creatively.
I’m happy to be corrected, but I don’t think anet has the systems in place to quickly add these options.
Plus, determining the reward is a whole other can of worms.
The devs have the capability to add these options. Look at the aerodrome dps area.
Normal mode- 1 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Current mode- 2 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Hard mode- 2 LI per boss and 1 legendary armor crafting mat per boss at 1x per week.
Vendor that sells cool stuff for LI as well.
…These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly.
“These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly. " But they are, your suggestion is really easy to see how awfull it is. Current mode only giving 1 more LI per boss ?? Are you serious?? People would just farm easy mode for a couple of months more and current mode would be desert land for pugs.
“Current mode- 2 LI per boss”… “2”
Give tier 1 fractals, 1 box of adept, master … for the dailies. And tier 4 fractals 2 box of adept, master.. for the dailies. Now lets see how many people will do tier 4.
Higher difficult need better rewards not the same reward in a greater quantity. So yeah having an easier mode giving the same reward of the harder mode just in less quantity would kill the harder mode 100% sure.
Seriously peeps, there is nothing wrong with having difficulty settings at all… and having scaling rewards for the different settings… and getting more players involved with endgame content and increasing retention.
Raids are not like players needing to compete for a 200k prize pool where only the best of the best twitch players can win… Raids are end game content to extend the life of the game for players and for fun.
Other game companies were smart enough to be inclusive with raids, and the devs here are smart enough to figure it out and implement… Anet is not some dirt poor company struggling to raise funds. It’s not like they need to devote millions of dollars and 50 devs either to open the raid doors more… Anet is also capable and competent and creative enough to do whatever they put their focus on. Let’s not make it seem like they would have to rewrite the game engine, or lack the talent, to make difficulty settings happen…
Given the lack of new content in other areas of the game (notwithstanding the recent patch, which I do enjoy) I am concerned about putting resources to something with minimal impact at best and harmful to normal mode at worst.
Ok, fair enough, but this difficulty setting thing doesn’t require redesigning every part of the raid wings.
Timer adjust options.
5 player, 10 player, 15 player options.
Enemy level scaling options.
Allowing players to be rezzed option.
Boons option like in aerodrome. Debuff option preventing boons.
There are creative ways to do this that don’t break the bank or require a year of polls, meetings, and cdis to figure out and do. Not saying that in 5 minute it’s done, but It can be done creatively.
I’m happy to be corrected, but I don’t think anet has the systems in place to quickly add these options.
Plus, determining the reward is a whole other can of worms.
The devs have the capability to add these options. Look at the aerodrome dps area.
Normal mode- 1 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Current mode- 2 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Hard mode- 2 LI per boss and 1 legendary armor crafting mat per boss at 1x per week.
Vendor that sells cool stuff for LI as well.
…These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly.
“These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly. " But they are, your suggestion is really easy to see how awfull it is. Current mode only giving 1 more LI per boss ?? Are you serious?? People would just farm easy mode for a couple of months more and current mode would be desert land for pugs.
I saw the " raids aren’t meant to be pugged" argument quite often on this forum, why should we consider them?
EDIT: I mean if that is your only argument against it.
I think if someone doesnt draw it you cant understand. No, its not the only reason.
Another one giving LI on easy mode is the same that asking for Ad Infinitum only doing Tier 1 fractals.
Another reason, you talk about accessibility making sure pugs never get a group to do the current raids ( as opposite of now that you can easiliy pug).
Another reason you are trying to change both the target audience and the purpose of the raids.
You are full of non-sense, you create a problem that doesnt exists, and give solution that actually will create problens that dont exist now.
Still need 150… That would be quite the time and effort task, along with all the legendary armor requirements, to accomplish for players…
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
Fractals were never Marketed as Challenging like raids were
Are you sure, because i definitely remember otherwise. In fact, if i remember it right, they were meant to be a challenge for fully geared level 80 players at fractal level 1, and progress in difficulty to become even more challenging at higher levels.
that’s the difference Fractals were designed with low levels being able to play in them as well hence the scaling effect.
It was mentioned right away, in the first blog post, that even though it is possible to play them underleveled, due to upscale level, unlike dungeons they are not really designed for below 80 players.
Raids were designed to be the hardest content in game
Same as Fractals, at the moment they were introduced
I don’t see how you can’t understand that, fractals were not meant to be the hardest or most challenging content otherwise they would have never aloud up leveling characters
See here for example.
Leah RivieraUnlike the other dungeons, your party can be any level. We’ve employed World vs. World-style sidekicking to make this dungeon accessible to all players. But keep in mind, our aim was to challenge level 80 players. Going in at low levels is not for the faint of heart!
Yeah, no intention on them being challenging whatsoever, right..[/sarcasm]
Also using T4 fractals as an example they are by default less accessible than raids and always will be just based on the pure concept of fractals.
T4 Fractals, maybe. Fractals – not at all.
Again why would it be an option? They didn’t have to implement up scaling on fractals which shows it’s not challenging, and I have completed up to fractal 10 back at fractal release on a level 60, if they really wanted it to be challenging for level 80s why was it an option?the only challenge I saw when fractals released were the people that were doing the uncapped fractal levels with not nearly enough AR. look at Dungeons they were supposed to be the be all end all of challenge yet those were open to anyone that met level requirements, outside of a few paths Dungeons were easy since launch, that shows Anet likes to throw the word Challenging around a lot. Raids were meant for a specific audience that wanted something more challenging than anything released in Gw2 previously, we got that, it was intended from the start to target guilds that wanted Hard content that would pose a challenge they met that audiences expectations, and then some even more so hitting a larger audience than they expected.
And all fractals past level 10 are by nature since you have to have AR which up until recently meant you had to have Ascended or you had no AR, while Raids have no such gear requirements, or any other requirements to start a raid group enter a raid and attempt the encounters. Now if someone is allowing the community from stopping them that isn’t due to raids but their inability to adapt or unwillingness to start their own raid group.
Seriously peeps, there is nothing wrong with having difficulty settings at all… and having scaling rewards for the different settings… and getting more players involved with endgame content and increasing retention.
Raids are not like players needing to compete for a 200k prize pool where only the best of the best twitch players can win… Raids are end game content to extend the life of the game for players and for fun.
Other game companies were smart enough to be inclusive with raids, and the devs here are smart enough to figure it out and implement… Anet is not some dirt poor company struggling to raise funds. It’s not like they need to devote millions of dollars and 50 devs either to open the raid doors more… Anet is also capable and competent and creative enough to do whatever they put their focus on. Let’s not make it seem like they would have to rewrite the game engine, or lack the talent, to make difficulty settings happen…
Given the lack of new content in other areas of the game (notwithstanding the recent patch, which I do enjoy) I am concerned about putting resources to something with minimal impact at best and harmful to normal mode at worst.
Ok, fair enough, but this difficulty setting thing doesn’t require redesigning every part of the raid wings.
Timer adjust options.
5 player, 10 player, 15 player options.
Enemy level scaling options.
Allowing players to be rezzed option.
Boons option like in aerodrome. Debuff option preventing boons.
There are creative ways to do this that don’t break the bank or require a year of polls, meetings, and cdis to figure out and do. Not saying that in 5 minute it’s done, but It can be done creatively.
I’m happy to be corrected, but I don’t think anet has the systems in place to quickly add these options.
Plus, determining the reward is a whole other can of worms.
The devs have the capability to add these options. Look at the aerodrome dps area.
Normal mode- 1 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Current mode- 2 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Hard mode- 2 LI per boss and 1 legendary armor crafting mat per boss at 1x per week.
Vendor that sells cool stuff for LI as well.
…These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly.
“These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly. " But they are, your suggestion is really easy to see how awfull it is. Current mode only giving 1 more LI per boss ?? Are you serious?? People would just farm easy mode for a couple of months more and current mode would be desert land for pugs.
“Current mode- 2 LI per boss”… “2”
Give tier 1 fractals, 1 box of adept, master … for the dailies. And tier 4 fractals 2 box of adept, master.. for the dailies. Now lets see how many people will do tier 4.
Higher difficult need better rewards not the same reward in a greater quantity. So yeah having an easier mode giving the same reward of the harder mode just in less quantity would kill the harder mode 100% sure.
Please read again so we are not wasting time…
“Normal mode- 1 LI per boss at 1x per week.”
“Current mode- 2 LI per boss at 1x per week.”
“Hard mode- 2 LI per boss and 1 legendary armor crafting mat per boss at 1x per week.”
“Vendor that sells cool stuff for LI as well.”
Do you understand now?
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
I agree with the OP.
for EXAMPLE:
Tier 1 = crap or no rewards.
Tier 2 = some decent rewards.
Tier 3 = best rewards available only to the best players.
When a game is all about fun (which it should always be, otherwise…go outside or read a book) you play what you want to play.
If I told you what stat set I am you’d all laugh, so I won’t. But I’m good at playing the build I made around it. It’s probably the worst DPS in the game. But, I like it and that’s what I want to play.
As much as I’d like to do the raids, I’m not really welcome. I mean, no one really wants to bring dead-weight like me. I managed to tank for the Vale Guardian and beat him (I set that raid up myself), but haven’t been welcome to another group since.
There isn’t a need for anyone as tanky as I am. Not one slot someone wants to fill with a tanky guy? No. So, that kind of leaves me out in the rain unless I want to rebuild my character (which I don’t).
Hahaha, when I tanked the Vale Guardian they just about kicked me when I told them how much toughness I had. 2760. They told me (probably rightfully so) that I only needed like 1 trinket that had toughness and everything else could be berserkers or sinister or what have you.
Well, I’ve played a lot of MMOs and that doesn’t feel like a tank to me (which is what I like to play)(and is also totally unneeded in the raids).
I like the idea of a tiered system because I think it’d give more people a chance to get their foot in the door. Maybe I’m not welcome on a tier 3, but maybe someone will pick me up for a tier 1. Then, maybe they’ll see some value in me and give me a shot in a tier 2, etc.
Remember, right now people are beating the earlier raids with 6-8 people. I HAVE to be more useful than an empty slot.
It’s a good idea to solve a problem that’s actually turned me away from the game. I’m of a personality that has to be the best or nothing. Not being welcome in the raids based on what I like to play (which was the theme of the game since day one back in 2012) sours me.
Seriously peeps, there is nothing wrong with having difficulty settings at all… and having scaling rewards for the different settings… and getting more players involved with endgame content and increasing retention.
Raids are not like players needing to compete for a 200k prize pool where only the best of the best twitch players can win… Raids are end game content to extend the life of the game for players and for fun.
Other game companies were smart enough to be inclusive with raids, and the devs here are smart enough to figure it out and implement… Anet is not some dirt poor company struggling to raise funds. It’s not like they need to devote millions of dollars and 50 devs either to open the raid doors more… Anet is also capable and competent and creative enough to do whatever they put their focus on. Let’s not make it seem like they would have to rewrite the game engine, or lack the talent, to make difficulty settings happen…
Given the lack of new content in other areas of the game (notwithstanding the recent patch, which I do enjoy) I am concerned about putting resources to something with minimal impact at best and harmful to normal mode at worst.
Ok, fair enough, but this difficulty setting thing doesn’t require redesigning every part of the raid wings.
Timer adjust options.
5 player, 10 player, 15 player options.
Enemy level scaling options.
Allowing players to be rezzed option.
Boons option like in aerodrome. Debuff option preventing boons.
There are creative ways to do this that don’t break the bank or require a year of polls, meetings, and cdis to figure out and do. Not saying that in 5 minute it’s done, but It can be done creatively.
I’m happy to be corrected, but I don’t think anet has the systems in place to quickly add these options.
Plus, determining the reward is a whole other can of worms.
The devs have the capability to add these options. Look at the aerodrome dps area.
Normal mode- 1 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Current mode- 2 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Hard mode- 2 LI per boss and 1 legendary armor crafting mat per boss at 1x per week.
Vendor that sells cool stuff for LI as well.
…These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly.
“These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly. " But they are, your suggestion is really easy to see how awfull it is. Current mode only giving 1 more LI per boss ?? Are you serious?? People would just farm easy mode for a couple of months more and current mode would be desert land for pugs.
“Current mode- 2 LI per boss”… “2”
Give tier 1 fractals, 1 box of adept, master … for the dailies. And tier 4 fractals 2 box of adept, master.. for the dailies. Now lets see how many people will do tier 4.
Higher difficult need better rewards not the same reward in a greater quantity. So yeah having an easier mode giving the same reward of the harder mode just in less quantity would kill the harder mode 100% sure.Please read again so we are not wasting time…
“Normal mode- 1 LI per boss at 1x per week.”
“Current mode- 2 LI per boss at 1x per week.”
“Hard mode- 2 LI per boss and 1 legendary armor crafting mat per boss at 1x per week.”
“Vendor that sells cool stuff for LI as well.”
Do you understand now?
You are the one not understanding, you are giving the same rewards in different quantity, as i stated before, so yeah thats not gonna happen. You should get 0 LI on easier mode, not 1 not half, 0 as it cant have the same reward.
Hahaha, just for laughs (I get them a lot) I’ll tell you what I am. I’m full ascended Nomad’s druid.
Here’s just some things I think about it:
PROS
-1st best survivability in the game.
-2nd best party heals in the game.
-Decent party buffs
-Party cannot wipe if I’m in the group.
CONS
-Garbage DPS
-No raids for me.
-Ridicule
But I can deal with that XD
Seriously peeps, there is nothing wrong with having difficulty settings at all… and having scaling rewards for the different settings… and getting more players involved with endgame content and increasing retention.
Raids are not like players needing to compete for a 200k prize pool where only the best of the best twitch players can win… Raids are end game content to extend the life of the game for players and for fun.
Other game companies were smart enough to be inclusive with raids, and the devs here are smart enough to figure it out and implement… Anet is not some dirt poor company struggling to raise funds. It’s not like they need to devote millions of dollars and 50 devs either to open the raid doors more… Anet is also capable and competent and creative enough to do whatever they put their focus on. Let’s not make it seem like they would have to rewrite the game engine, or lack the talent, to make difficulty settings happen…
Given the lack of new content in other areas of the game (notwithstanding the recent patch, which I do enjoy) I am concerned about putting resources to something with minimal impact at best and harmful to normal mode at worst.
Ok, fair enough, but this difficulty setting thing doesn’t require redesigning every part of the raid wings.
Timer adjust options.
5 player, 10 player, 15 player options.
Enemy level scaling options.
Allowing players to be rezzed option.
Boons option like in aerodrome. Debuff option preventing boons.
There are creative ways to do this that don’t break the bank or require a year of polls, meetings, and cdis to figure out and do. Not saying that in 5 minute it’s done, but It can be done creatively.
I’m happy to be corrected, but I don’t think anet has the systems in place to quickly add these options.
Plus, determining the reward is a whole other can of worms.
The devs have the capability to add these options. Look at the aerodrome dps area.
Normal mode- 1 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Current mode- 2 LI per boss at 1x per week.
Hard mode- 2 LI per boss and 1 legendary armor crafting mat per boss at 1x per week.
Vendor that sells cool stuff for LI as well.
…These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly.
“These things don’t need to be made unnecessarily complex honestly. " But they are, your suggestion is really easy to see how awfull it is. Current mode only giving 1 more LI per boss ?? Are you serious?? People would just farm easy mode for a couple of months more and current mode would be desert land for pugs.
I saw the " raids aren’t meant to be pugged" argument quite often on this forum, why should we consider them?
EDIT: I mean if that is your only argument against it.
I think if someone doesnt draw it you cant understand. No, its not the only reason.
Another one giving LI on easy mode is the same that asking for Ad Infinitum only doing Tier 1 fractals.
Another reason, you talk about accessibility making sure pugs never get a group to do the current raids ( as opposite of now that you can easiliy pug).
Another reason you are trying to change both the target audience and the purpose of the raids.
You are full of non-sense, you create a problem that doesnt exists, and give solution that actually will create problens that dont exist now.Have to agree, my previous statement was misunderstandable. What I meant is if we create a tiered difficulty we wouldn’t need to consider PUGs on harder difficulty , since those won’t be meant for them, but currently PUGs have no alternative. In that principle anet even could create harder raids than currently, since I see some people asking for it.
I also have a proposal for rewards, since this seems to be the most sensitive topic. Currently raids seem to have about 1 weapon set, a few unique ones, two backpack and ofc the armor. All anet needs to do is create a weapon set similar to these ones, a few unique ones, and add them to both easy mode and hard mode.
Regarding the legendary armor How about this: Instead of the easy version dropping Legendary Insights, it will drop something like Legendary Insight fragment. This fragment works exactly like Legendary Insight in the legendary armor recipes, but if you use these you won’t get the envoy armor skins, just the utility of legendary armor (eg. stat swapping). If you want to upgrade your armor to envoy in the future you can with 25 LI.
bamm, everything stayed exclusive, a wider audience gets repeatable content, as far as I can see, everyone can be happy.
And just because you and I don’t have problems, doesn’t mean they don’t exist. No need to name call me or insult me to reinforce your arguments.
First bold part, so your solution is to remove the current raids from the PUGs grasp?? A lot of people that like to pug the current raid wont, and will now be moved to easy mode? You really think that people want it for the sake that people that cant raid now MAYBE can raid on easier mode?? See how you are creating a problem for the people that are happy pugging raids just because people that are not the target audiance want the rewards.
Now the second and third bold part, you contradict yourself, you say it remain exclusive but you can get on the easy mode on a slower pace, so its no exclusive. Exclusive mean you cant get another way be it slower or faster.
I wouldn’t remove pugging from hard or even hardest option. If they feel like they want to try it they will be free to do so, but it won’t be aimed at them.
On my second and third bolded part, I don’t see how I contradict myself, I add different altered versions of current raid rewards, which will be automaticly transfered to higher ones, meaning the easiest difficulty will have the least rewards, but easier versions will be still worth doing. You won’t get another way to get higher difficulty skins. And thinking about it a bit more I think they should make a difficulty level a lot higher than the current one, but there players could earn something like " Bloodstone infused Weapons" which would look the same as the ones we have, but with red lightning effects. Just and idea though.
Where on earth did this ridiculous myth start about Anet’s “core philosophy”?
I see people saying all the time “omg raids go against the core philosophy of the game”
I don’t recall Anet ever saying they didn’t want difficult content in their game and everyone should be able to easily access every reward in the game.
In fact, I recall before launch Anet said that explorable dungeons were meant to be the most difficult content in the game for the most elite players. (granted, they became easy over time but you can clearly see where their intentions were)
Exclusive rewards have also been in the game since launch. (see dungeon currency, living world backpieces, karma armor, gift of exploration, gift of battle, ascended rings shortly after launch, etc)
Raids go against Anet “core philosophy” as much as the new living world map does.
Also there is nothing excluding people from raids other than their own choice to not do them. Don’t give me this BS about how raids somehow lock you way from doing them. Heck, they even added an LFG category for raids so there really is no excuse at this point other than sheer laziness.
Even in the hypothetical situation that an easy-mode could be created, under no circumstances should it ever provide:
- Legendary Insights
- Unlocking the unique boss skins for each boss kill
- The same amount of Magnetite Shards, far less in fact.
Making the argument that you want easy-mode raiding is fine, but when you want similar rewards what you are actually saying is that you wanted easy-mode raiding because you couldn’t earn those rewards otherwise.
And I know a few of you genuinely want Easy-mode raiding for the experience or training or some other method, I have said my piece before about how I feel about that but I can understand where you are coming from. But you have to realize that a few folks here who want easy-mode raiding, want the loot period. They are using it as an excuse…
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
@Chaos.5072
You should invite me to the next raid you go into.
I’ll share with you some facts:
ArenaNet had a core philosophy. I don’t know how long you’ve been playing (maybe since launch like me) but it’s always been about having no class roles.
There is no healer, no tank, no clearly defined DPS. That means dungeons are doable with no “healer” as they don’t exist. They’re doable by whoever and whatever combination of classes want to try.
There was always only one criteria:
You have the play your build well.
That used to be the “core philosophy”.
Understanding that, we can apply it to the game’s content…
Dungeons? Check.
Fractals? Check.
Raid? No check.
Remember, their idea for the game was “allow any combination of classes to succeed, so long as they’re played well”.
Raids don’t fit that description.
You can’t beat it with everyone wearing Soldiers gear. It doesn’t matter how good you are, you won’t beat the timer.
That, in and of itself, defies the core concept.
For me it comes down to the timers and the mechanics revolving around doing it as quickly as you can.
Mai Trin 100 has no timer. Lots of people STILL get ripped out of their minds. Could they make it a little harder? I’d love that. I never die on Mai Trin 100.
A timer is a cheesy way to introduce difficulty because it doesn’t fit well certain activities.
A timer is important in competitive track and field. It’s all about speed.
A timer has no place in competitive weight lifting. It’s not about speed.
GW2 is not about speed. It’s not about any one thing.
If they introduced a solo challenge fight where a boss had 1000 health, you did 10 DPS (according to your build) and you have 60 seconds to beat him, you lose. You just lose. You’d do 600 damage by the time the timer had run out and the only way to beat him would be to change your character. Basically play a different way.
That goes against the core concept of the game; again, being that anyone can do anything as long as they’re good enough.
You see, there are 2 aspects to “your character”:
- there’s the numerical stat-based representation (your armor, traits, skills, weapons, runes, sigils, etc.).
- there’s the person sitting at their computer desk wielding #1
No matter what you choose as #1, you should be able to complete anything as long as #2 is good enough. Some people just don’t have the hand-eye coordination, mental sharpness, spatial intelligence, foresight and reflexes like others do.
This is why some people using beautiful META builds get ripped. #1 looks optimized, #2 is sub-par and severely lacking. They stand in the AOEs, they don’t dodge, the don’t plan a long-game strategy.
No matter what build you play, if you’re just not that skilled a player you’ll do poorly and won’t be able to complete some of the content.
It’s easy to call everyone else out when you’re playing a META build and can’t understand why anyone would want to play anything else.
It’s not at all laziness on my part that I’m not doing the raids. Post in the LFG that you’re full Nomad’s and watch what happens. You’ll be watching for a while because nothing will happen.
Oh wait, I have an idea. Let’s make our own raid. Oh wait, the second people figure out you’re wearing Nomad’s they’re going to leave your group.
It’s quite frustrating because I’m used to being welcome to participate in whatever people are doing, because I’m good at pretty much everything I do.
A timer has no place in competitive weight lifting. It’s not about speed.
World’s Strongest Man competition. :b
I’m good at pretty much everything I do.
Everyone in nomad gear is next to good because you simply cannot die unless you go afk and don’t press any button. Your “good” is a doubtful statement.
To your soldier’s theory. I’m sure that if all people are in soldier’s gear, they aren’t even able to kill Tequatl.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
I’ll share with you some facts:
ArenaNet had a core philosophy. I don’t know how long you’ve been playing (maybe since launch like me) but it’s always been about having no class roles.
Utterly untrue simply due to class mechanics. Without even going into raids, there’s are massive issues with say Warriors being good group healers, or thieves being able to take many hits just due to mechanics, health pools, etc.
There is no healer, no tank, no clearly defined DPS. That means dungeons are doable with no “healer” as they don’t exist. They’re doable by whoever and whatever combination of classes want to try.
What you meant to say above is that everyone can be independent, each player has their own healing, their own kinds of defenses, their own damage, etc. Dungeons used to be the hardest content in the game at launch because no one knew anything about how to approach them. Aggro wasn’t a thing, people went into AC in greens and yellows at the level it was at. Fun times, but quite easily as difficult as raids are right now.
There was always only one criteria:
You have the play your build well.That used to be the “core philosophy”.
There’s a certain irony in a full ascended nomads player telling everyone that the requirement for doing instanced content is playing your build well. Actually, if that’s the core philosophy as you describe it, it still exists now. You have to know how to play your profession properly alongside others to succeed in raids. That’s literally the point of raiding.
Understanding that, we can apply it to the game’s content…
Dungeons? Check.
Fractals? Nope
Raid? No check.
Fixed that for you, I weep for any pugs that bring your immortal but ultimately not doing any damage profession into a high level fractal. It’s utterly unbelievable that you think you are providing any sort of support in the fights when by being without damage all groups with you in it have much longer encounters, which can lead to more mistakes by your party members who actually geared to kill something.
You playing nomads is actually killing your allies.
Remember, their idea for the game was “allow any combination of classes to succeed, so long as they’re played well”.
Wouldn’t mind you having a link for that quote, or are you just reinforcing a point you made earlier in this same exact post?
Raids don’t fit that description.
Neither did Fractals when they first came out, a new PvE end-game concept imagined. Now look where we are after years of supporting that content. Raids are the same thing, a different branch of difficult PvE content focused on a larger than a party group that needs to coordinate together their builds, gear, tactics and skills to defeat epic bosses. Neat!
You can’t beat it with everyone wearing Soldiers gear. It doesn’t matter how good you are, you won’t beat the timer.
That, in and of itself, defies the core concept.
Very true, but raids were not meant to follow the same PvE conventions found elsewhere, much like how Fractals require you to get Agony Resistance to even do the higher levels.
Honestly practically speaking, Raids are even more accessible.
For me it comes down to the timers and the mechanics revolving around doing it as quickly as you can.
Mai Trin 100 has no timer. Lots of people STILL get ripped out of their minds. Could they make it a little harder? I’d love that. I never die on Mai Trin 100.
A rock placed on your keyboard can do Mai Trin 100 if geared for full Ascended Nomads Druid.
A timer is a cheesy way to introduce difficulty because it doesn’t fit well certain activities.
Of course you are on that side of the Timer Argument.
A timer is important in competitive track and field. It’s all about speed.
A timer has no place in competitive weight lifting. It’s not about speed.
Pointless and irrelevant comparisons, mind laying off those will you?
GW2 is not about speed. It’s not about any one thing.
Quite right! It’s the players who make it about speed, because they understand what happens when you aren’t doing things fast enough. Cause and effect, if a group does less damage overall to Subject Alpha for instance, there are more chances for someone to actually get nuked from something, and downstates can cascade fights poorly and waste everyone’s time. Turns out, players like doing things quick because their time is valuable.
If they introduced a solo challenge fight where a boss had 1000 health, you did 10 DPS (according to your build) and you have 60 seconds to beat him, you lose. You just lose. You’d do 600 damage by the time the timer had run out and the only way to beat him would be to change your character. Basically play a different way.
What? And adapt to the encounter? By Ogden’s Hammer what horror!
That goes against the core concept of the game; again, being that anyone can do anything as long as they’re good enough.
You have a different take on the core philosophy made back then. I do remember them talking about how everyone can heal, everyone can do damage, everyone can have their own defenses and be independent. That however does not mean you can do literally everything with anything. Sure as hell ain’t killing Destroyers as a Burn-only Guardian Build.
You see, there are 2 aspects to “your character”:
- there’s the numerical stat-based representation (your armor, traits, skills, weapons, runes, sigils, etc.).
- there’s the person sitting at their computer desk wielding #1
……….
No matter what build you play, if you’re just not that skilled a player you’ll do poorly and won’t be able to complete some of the content.
It’s almost as if this game has a certain set of requirements for you to do to get a reward. I wonder if you feel the same way about Holiday Specific rewards where you know people can’t do Clocktower at all.
It’s easy to call everyone else out when you’re playing a META build and can’t understand why anyone would want to play anything else.
It’s not at all laziness on my part that I’m not doing the raids. Post in the LFG that you’re full Nomad’s and watch what happens. You’ll be watching for a while because nothing will happen.
Actually I reckon people will think you would be from [SALT]
Just kidding, they would think you would be trolling as no one wants to have to 9-man a raid while carrying a nomad’s druid who could probably do some nice heals, but have thousands of DPS less that has to be made up with everyone else.
Oh wait, I have an idea. Let’s make our own raid. Oh wait, the second people figure out you’re wearing Nomad’s they’re going to leave your group.
It’s quite frustrating because I’m used to being welcome to participate in whatever people are doing, because I’m good at pretty much everything I do.
Dungeons sure, Fractals are a big maybe unless you are playing with guildmates or friends. Very surprised a pug hasn’t called out the group for noticing a severe lack of damage during Fractal Encounters. You might be lucky sir!
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
@Chaos.5072
You should invite me to the next raid you go into.
I’ll share with you some facts:
ArenaNet had a core philosophy. I don’t know how long you’ve been playing (maybe since launch like me) but it’s always been about having no class roles.
There is no healer, no tank, no clearly defined DPS. That means dungeons are doable with no “healer” as they don’t exist. They’re doable by whoever and whatever combination of classes want to try.
There was always only one criteria:
You have the play your build well.That used to be the “core philosophy”.
Understanding that, we can apply it to the game’s content…
Dungeons? Check.
Fractals? Check.
Raid? No check.Remember, their idea for the game was “allow any combination of classes to succeed, so long as they’re played well”.
Raids don’t fit that description.
You can’t beat it with everyone wearing Soldiers gear. It doesn’t matter how good you are, you won’t beat the timer.
That, in and of itself, defies the core concept.
For me it comes down to the timers and the mechanics revolving around doing it as quickly as you can.
Mai Trin 100 has no timer. Lots of people STILL get ripped out of their minds. Could they make it a little harder? I’d love that. I never die on Mai Trin 100.
A timer is a cheesy way to introduce difficulty because it doesn’t fit well certain activities.
A timer is important in competitive track and field. It’s all about speed.
A timer has no place in competitive weight lifting. It’s not about speed.GW2 is not about speed. It’s not about any one thing.
If they introduced a solo challenge fight where a boss had 1000 health, you did 10 DPS (according to your build) and you have 60 seconds to beat him, you lose. You just lose. You’d do 600 damage by the time the timer had run out and the only way to beat him would be to change your character. Basically play a different way.
That goes against the core concept of the game; again, being that anyone can do anything as long as they’re good enough.
You see, there are 2 aspects to “your character”:
- there’s the numerical stat-based representation (your armor, traits, skills, weapons, runes, sigils, etc.).
- there’s the person sitting at their computer desk wielding #1
No matter what you choose as #1, you should be able to complete anything as long as #2 is good enough. Some people just don’t have the hand-eye coordination, mental sharpness, spatial intelligence, foresight and reflexes like others do.
This is why some people using beautiful META builds get ripped. #1 looks optimized, #2 is sub-par and severely lacking. They stand in the AOEs, they don’t dodge, the don’t plan a long-game strategy.
No matter what build you play, if you’re just not that skilled a player you’ll do poorly and won’t be able to complete some of the content.
It’s easy to call everyone else out when you’re playing a META build and can’t understand why anyone would want to play anything else.
It’s not at all laziness on my part that I’m not doing the raids. Post in the LFG that you’re full Nomad’s and watch what happens. You’ll be watching for a while because nothing will happen.
Oh wait, I have an idea. Let’s make our own raid. Oh wait, the second people figure out you’re wearing Nomad’s they’re going to leave your group.
It’s quite frustrating because I’m used to being welcome to participate in whatever people are doing, because I’m good at pretty much everything I do.
Debatable, on the Soldiers clear there was a raid that cleared in full Nomads, I bet a group will clear through with Soldiers.
You don’t need to run Meta, plus raids weren’t made for the general populace but for organized guild groups so yes the LFG will try to emulate guild group compositions, they are not needed, especially when it’s been proven that you can have 60% less stats as well as 60% less players and still beat enrage timers, yes those players are very skilled and are the exception vs the mass populace of gw2. but it shows that it is mostly mechanical skill and not stats needed to clear content.
Now again Raids were not designed for everyone, I repeat they were not designed for everyone, yes anyone can attempt them but they were made for a specific audience that doesn’t mind changing their gear/spec/playstyle to accomplish their goal.
Nothing is stopping you from making a group and attempting raids put in the LFG an accurate statement of the raid or what you are looking for, players joining should know what to expect before joining your group, so if you are dishonest in the LFG then it’s fine that they leave, but if you put training run all welcome you should have no qualms with filling.
Alright~
Time to be done with the forums, lol. Starts getting under my skin.
Have fun.
^
And people wonder where the people are who would benefit from an easy mode. 2 out of 3 responses have at least one insult in them, why would anyone sign up for this? I don’t know wether I should cry or laugh if the lack of easy mode will be the doom of raid’s development.
Anytime you start off with ’I’ll share with you some facts’ you are being naturally antagonistic and taking some sort of high ground.
I very well could have pulled my punches, but it is far better to realize that although this game has a lot of soloble content, it is very much an MMO where everything you do can and will impact those around you.
I don’t want to go back into that age-old discussion about the individual versus the group, that’s been going on far longer than raids have been around.
I do know however, that as long as Arenanet has the numbers they know exactly how many people are raiding, and will know how to drive development. They seemed extremely optimistic about how well-received the current iteration of raids have been, thus my conclusion is that they are very likely to keep up that trend and provide more raids down that path rather than be distracted by an ‘easy-mode’ option.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
I mean if you were a good player you wouldn’t openly state you run nomads and know how to play your class.
It’s literally a given that people who run nomads have no idea what they’re doing or they wouldn’t run that useless mesh of stats.
The only ‘viable’ nomads build would that staff ele one for heals which people run for lolz but at least they know it’s lolz rather than I AM GUD AT THE GAEM HUEHUE type of thing.
Ask yourself, who is better at the game. Some dude who camps full nomads with 30k HP or some dude running viper/zerk druid with less than 20k and still doesn’t die. Then think about why they want them instead of you, it’s just so obvious.
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
Utterly untrue simply due to class mechanics. Without even going into raids, there’s are massive issues with say Warriors being good group healers, or thieves being able to take many hits just due to mechanics, health pools, etc.
There was a decent warrior group healing build at one time. Got nerfed, because at that time Anet was, in general, against group healing in general (well, there were also some pvp reasons). And there’s a reason why thieves have so much damage avoidance options. Original design assumed that if you were depending on other characters with healing/sustain, you’d just plain die. You were supposed to take care of that on your own, and for yourself. Methods might have been different for each class, but the general idea was the same for everyone.
It has changed only relatively recently. And the main reason why it has changed is Raids.
There’s a certain irony in a full ascended nomads player telling everyone that the requirement for doing instanced content is playing your build well. Actually, if that’s the core philosophy as you describe it, it still exists now. You have to know how to play your profession properly alongside others to succeed in raids. That’s literally the point of raiding.
No, the point of raiding is playing well a specific class and profession. Most possible combinations are excluded.
Fixed that for you, I weep for any pugs that bring your immortal but ultimately not doing any damage profession into a high level fractal.
So? Can be done. Have done t4 fractals with 3 bunker guardians in the group before.
(Well, could be done. The same setup now would kill all non-guardians due to retal. Which even more shows how the game has changed lately).
It’s utterly unbelievable that you think you are providing any sort of support in the fights when by being without damage all groups with you in it have much longer encounters, which can lead to more mistakes by your party members who actually geared to kill something.
But if they play well, the encounter is still doable. there won’t be a point after which the group will almost certainly wipe because it lacked dps. Unlike with raids, where certain group setups are just not viable.
Remember, their idea for the game was “allow any combination of classes to succeed, so long as they’re played well”.
Wouldn’t mind you having a link for that quote, or are you just reinforcing a point you made earlier in this same exact post?
It’s an actual dev statement, from what i remember. Should be in one of the prelaunch posts (one about dungeons, i think). Might try to find that one later.
Raids don’t fit that description.
Neither did Fractals when they first came out, a new PvE end-game concept imagined.
Untrue. So very untrue. Yes, a Fractal meta developed fast, but it was by no means a necessity, and most of pug groups made do with whatever was available, and were still fine.
Now look where we are after years of supporting that content.
A good question. Certainly not where we were going originally.
Raids are the same thing, a different branch of difficult PvE content focused on a larger than a party group that needs to coordinate together their builds, gear, tactics and skills to defeat epic bosses. Neat!
Nope. The need to coordinate builds and gear is something new, and that one makes the whole experience highly subpar. The difficulty of the content suddenly shifts away from actual skill towards buildcrafting and gearing up minigame.
Very true, but raids were not meant to follow the same PvE conventions found elsewhere
Yes. Isn’t that the very point brought up? You think that this break with past convention is a good thing. Apparently, many players disagree.
much like how Fractals require you to get Agony Resistance to even do the higher levels.
That was never a good mechanic, and people were pointing this out to Anet since Lost Shores introduction. Artificial difficulty doesn’t test anything, it just forces grind. If it got removed tomorrow, i’d definitely not cry after it.
Honestly practically speaking, Raids are even more accessible.
Nah, go with wrong group setup in a raid, and you have less chances of succeeding than in fractals with few people lacking AR.
Quite right! It’s the players who make it about speed, because they understand what happens when you aren’t doing things fast enough. Cause and effect, if a group does less damage overall to Subject Alpha for instance, there are more chances for someone to actually get nuked from something, and downstates can cascade fights poorly and waste everyone’s time. Turns out, players like doing things quick because their time is valuable.
Seriously, you’re comparing Subject Alpha fight, where taking it longer might introduce problems if several people will start making mistakes (but where even those mistakes are recoverable), to say, Gorse, where taking longer will just plain kill you, with no way to avoid it?
What? And adapt to the encounter? By Ogden’s Hammer what horror!
There’s a massive difference between adapting your strategy and play approach to the encounter, and adapting your gear to it. First is interesting. Second is just a grind prerequirement.
It’s almost as if this game has a certain set of requirements for you to do to get a reward. I wonder if you feel the same way about Holiday Specific rewards where you know people can’t do Clocktower at all.
Oh, so now Clocktower has a gear requirement to finish it succesfully?
Debatable, on the Soldiers clear there was a raid that cleared in full Nomads, I bet a group will clear through with Soldiers.
Maybe, but it’s actually far less likely than the Nomads case. You either need a dps to clear the enrage timer, or a sustain to heal through damage. So, the builds that will have the most trouble will be those in between the extremes.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
if the gear requirement is what’s keeping you from being successful in raids… no, sorry, i don’t really see it, unless you’re putting out absolutely no effort
the barrier to obtaining a suitable set of Exotic gear for raiding is trivial, you can buy an appropriate set of Zerker’s gear for karma or badges of honor or not a heck of a lot of gold. completely reasonable; the first wing of the raid (and usually considered the one with the hardest DPS checks) was cleared in exotics half a year ago
you can also push multiple other means to get great entry level armor and weapons for raiding, including collections for ascended weapon/armor boxes and your elite specialization weapons
and gearing has gotten drastically easier in the last patch between two major changes; the pricing for optimal infusions has drastically dropped, allowing you to build perfect gear with much less effort, and bloodstone fen introduces materials across the board to deflate the prices of a lot of ascended materials
even if it is the case that gearing is too hard and is presenting a barrier to raiding, that isn’t an argument for easy mode raids; that’s an argument for more abundant materials. i’d be far more receptive to a nerf to the materials required for Gossamer Patches than i would be to easy raids, which imo is the biggest real blocker to gearing in the current state of the game
Nalhadia – Kaineng
It’s funny to see people mentioning Gorseval as an example for certain build needs when the argumentation started at “raids being inaccessible”.
I have the impression it’s more: “Just let us find enough reasons against raids, sum them up and show how many we have.”, without even looking if that makes sense or if there’s a lack of argumentative quality.
Let’s be honest players that feel directly affected by inaccessibility of raiding (of course not the ones posting here because they raid, except Astralsporing I think) don’t even know what a Gorseval is.
Seriously, there is no player claiming: “Raids are inaccessible for me because there is a Gorseval and a Sabetha, so I am excluded due to my low dps build.”
A majority of players isn’t even reading announcements of new content not to speak from patchnotes. They just log into the game and look what’s next. If there is a big new header saying “new wing xyz is out”, they just don’t care and play different stuff. That’s the reality, there is no big playerbase sitting sadly around because they have no access in raids.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
I do know however, that as long as Arenanet has the numbers they know exactly how many people are raiding, and will know how to drive development. They seemed extremely optimistic about how well-received the current iteration of raids have been, thus my conclusion is that they are very likely to keep up that trend and provide more raids down that path rather than be distracted by an ‘easy-mode’ option.
I wish I could be as optimistic as you. The way I see it, development plans could change overnight. Look at what happened to Legendary Weapons, yet they are meant to be the long term goal for an arguably larger group than the raiding community, yet chop chop. Their team size was about as big as the raiding team’s though.
Another example, back in 2013, Arenanet released one of their most well recieved releases, know as Super Adventure Box. If I had to guess, this was the release that bought in the most gemstore purchases in a month. Both the forums and reddit was full of praise, with ofc a smaller group stating his distatisfaction, as always, however not continueing this project was out of question. As far as we know a small group of devs (I think 6) started working on it right away to release the next world as soon as possible. And they did, however the second world wasn’t as successful as they hoped…. what happened next? Project pretty much canceled.
This game is full of things like these. If we look at the current scene of raiding, I already see signs that could give us reason to worry. Yes, the devs were statisfied with the numbers they saw and are working on the second Wing. However if we look at the raiding population, we reached the point where those who raid for their Legendary Armor are reaching 150 LI. By the point they release the second wing most people will have that much, and as we know the new raid is planned to still drop LIs. My question is, do you think that part of the raiding population who doesn’t care about the long term goal is big enough (e.g. those who will continue to raid after attaining their 150 LI) for anet to think the raiding team’s resources are justified? I’ve been asking myself this question for a while now, and I couldn’t say with certainty; “Yes”.
The thing is, if Arenanet decides one day the raiding population became too small to continue the development, at that point it will be too late for us to do anything.
Seriously, there is no player claiming: “Raids are inaccessible for me because there is a Gorseval and a Sabetha, so I am excluded due to my low dps build.”
There is literally one on this page. You even insulted his playstyle by saying
“Everyone in nomad gear is next to good because you simply cannot die unless you go afk and don’t press any button. Your “good” is a doubtful statement.”
Why would others speak up when they know all they gonna get are insults?
There is literally one on this page. You even insulted his playstyle by saying
“Everyone in nomad gear is next to good because you simply cannot die unless you go afk and don’t press any button. Your “good” is a doubtful statement.”Why would others speak up when they know all they gonna get are insults?
I didn’t insult his playstyle. He was around in this forum a long time ago and got same answers because it is as it is. You can easily research those.
You cannot die in nomad gear unless you are afk or just watching mobs killing you without pressing a button – You cannot really believe that this has anything to do with “being good”.
Just craft an armor like that and go play it. You will see the clear results. That’s the absolute only truth about nomad gear!
It’s just funny to say: “Hey, I wear nomad gear and so I’m good because I don’t die.” This has been his statement in the past and it’s the same now.
Btw. try Simin (High Priestess of Dwayna) in Arah P4 with nomad’s gear – have fun with that.
And with this we are back on: “Pls nerf meta”, “Got kicked cuz no right stats” and “Nobody’s joining my group cuz I wear nomads.”
We had the same claims when dungeon running was popular. You cannot force a playerbase into things they don’t want. Either you act in a social way and adapt to community wishes or you exclude yourself. It’s your own choice.
Also your worries about raiders stopping at 150 LI are unfounded. I pug weekly with many raiders above this value because they raid for a reason: They have fun to play that content instead of the other 99% in this game which is boring as hell.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
There is literally one on this page. You even insulted his playstyle by saying
“Everyone in nomad gear is next to good because you simply cannot die unless you go afk and don’t press any button. Your “good” is a doubtful statement.”Why would others speak up when they know all they gonna get are insults?
If their “speak up” is false claims like “You can’t do raids in full celestial stats, or Knight gear Raids should allow any build” which are lies as proven with videos of for example 10 elementalist doing 150 damage on the hardest boss ( mathias ) and still killing it.
or “Raids are not accessible” when you can get any exotic set you want in 1 day. Yeah better not say anything then.
Also your worries about raiders stopping at 150 LI are unfounded. I pug weekly with many raiders above this value because they raid for a reason: They have fun to play that content instead of the other 99% in this game which is boring as hell.
Only time will tell that. I know about several puggers using 150 LI + code just to get accepted into groups. They do plan to stop at 150 however.
(edited by Scipio.3204)
Most common is “100+ LI” in the lfg as highest requirement for pugs (although it still says nothing).
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
Most common is “100+ LI” in the lfg as highest requirement for pugs (although it still says nothing).
That is true, but you can still see mostly Xera 150 LI + once in a while. As far as I know most fakers have one link ready, if they have to create or look for another one they might miss the window. To optimize their success they use links that fulfills the highest requirement, which is around 150 LI . That will get them into most groups anyway.
I have a friend who 1-2 months back raided three weeks straight with the link of 71 LI ,lol, he only switched it because people started to notice his LI number doesn’t grow even though he cleared two wings 3 times. Anyway same friend organized a Gorse once, put up an add saying something like 50 + LI and we have people join us who had like 152 LI , my friend asked him to show his tonic buff, he got offended and left.
My point is, PUG s aren’t a reliable source. If anet wants to check wether people raid for the Legendary Armor or just for the fun of it they can easily do so by basic data analysis: Take the number of people with 150-155 LI , substract those who only attained this number this week or the previous and divide this number with the number of people having 150 LI +. This will give them a rough estimate what percentage of raiders shouldn’t be counted with in future raid wings if those wings have only the armor as the long term motivator. I suspect this number will only go up , since let’s face it, content does get stale over time.
I know a lot of people that isnt raiding for the 150LIs, i am one of them. You know that legendary is a massive gold grind, the 150 is the really easy part, i dont even bother with it because i will never let myself grind AB for hours everyday just to craft the hearts, and the third step probably will be even more expensive.
I’m not seeing this drop off in popularity of raids. In fact, I’ve been mapping and I’ve seen those living story Bandit/Ley Line Anomaly fail/ignored by pretty much everyone outside of prime time where you might get 1 map doing it.
Sure some people are stopping after 150 or got bored etc but still lots of people do weekly raids compared with the massive drop off I see in the open world content. I would argue that raids are a massive success in comparison.
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
I’m not seeing this drop off in popularity of raids. In fact, I’ve been mapping and I’ve seen those living story Bandit/Ley Line Anomaly fail/ignored by pretty much everyone outside of prime time where you might get 1 map doing it.
Sure some people are stopping after 150 or got bored etc but still lots of people do weekly raids compared with the massive drop off I see in the open world content. I would argue that raids are a massive success in comparison.
That is something else I’m worried about. You are right, after completing those events several times you don’t have any reason to complete them, logically , people won’t do them. However as far as we know we are going to get 3 things in the PvE scene til the upcoming : Living Story, Fractals, Raids.
Living Story comes every 2-3 months, which will be similar in lenght compared to season 2 looking at episode one, except the achievements are a lot easier this time. This won’t give people any reason to stay around, this won’t give them any reason to play the game more than 1-2 day every 2-3 months.
Then we have fractals. Fractals are supposed to be the ultimate 5 man dungeon endgame experience, however adding new ones doesn’t really accomplish anything. Fractals have a predefined reward structure which allows people to hoard up currency, not needing to complete the new one more than one time. Again, no long term goal for the general audience.
Finally we have Raids, which currently is aimed at the minority of players. These are the only players that get something to work towards to on the long term since legendary weapons have been cancelled, this is also why I think a tiered difficulty raids would benefit the game overall. In short, a wider audience would get a long term goal, which , as I see it, is lacking from the rest of the game.
@Chaos.5072
You should invite me to the next raid you go into.
I’ll share with you some facts:
ArenaNet had a core philosophy. I don’t know how long you’ve been playing (maybe since launch like me) but it’s always been about having no class roles.
There is no healer, no tank, no clearly defined DPS. That means dungeons are doable with no “healer” as they don’t exist. They’re doable by whoever and whatever combination of classes want to try.
There was always only one criteria:
You have the play your build well.That used to be the “core philosophy”.
Understanding that, we can apply it to the game’s content…
Dungeons? Check.
Fractals? Check.
Raid? No check.Remember, their idea for the game was “allow any combination of classes to succeed, so long as they’re played well”.
Raids don’t fit that description.
There is so much wrong with this post that I don’t even know where to begin.
Yes, raids demand SOFT roles that are not locked to a specific class, so did dungeons. Don’t try to pretend for a second that dungeons and fractals didn’t have soft roles too, because they did (dps, support, control, reflects, stealth). And guess what, just like dungeons, raids can be completed with any team comp/build. It just might not be as efficient. But nothing is locking you out from playing whatever you want.
Did you not see the all necro wing 1 clear by Ren? Or the 45 min VG + 1 hour Matthias kill by SALT with all clerics tempests? What about DnT’s full ranger party comp? Or the 4 man VG kill done by qT and china? Or the full masterwork clear by IvT? Or the no armor SV clear? What about the full rev clear? 5 man gorseval? SOLO twisted castle? I could go on and on
This proves that you can run absolutely whatever you want in raids and you’ll be able to beat it,. If you want to play your special snowflake build, you can make your own group with your own requirements or join one that doesn’t care. Just know that if you do this, you’ll be less efficient than the best build out there. This is no different than it has been dungeons and fractals since launch and if you think so you’re obviously missing something.
There are no fixed class roles in this game. You can tank as any class in the game, just thrown on a toughness ring. You don’t need a healer for raids. In fact, most experienced groups bring a power dps or condi dps ranger instead of a healing druid.
Believing that GW2 somehow has a hard trinity is honestly delusional at this point. Nothing has changed since launch in regards to some build being more efficient than others, and nothing has changed to lock classes into certain roles.
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
Except that raids aren’t supposed to be easy. They’ve been designed to be challenging group content.
So instead of complaining about it, go get to the point where you can complete them as they are optional content.
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
That’s the suggestion made in the original post. The comments in the thread make it clear that, no, this wouldn’t make everyone happy. It would please some who don’t raid now and upset the target audience for raiding.
I’m against it because I’d much, much prefer ANet put in the same effort into something other than raids, for those who don’t raid. Keep raids exclusive to those who want the challenge and add new fractals or fix other content (or add more current events) instead of spending time on multiple difficulty levels.
To make the lore more accessible, ANet could could allow spectating — in theory, that’s something that ANet could build once and apply to all sorts of content (whereas creating another level of raid difficulty would mean increasing the cost of adding any new raids).
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
(edited by Illconceived Was Na.9781)
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
Except that raids aren’t supposed to be easy. They’ve been designed to be challenging group content.
So instead of complaining about it, go get to the point where you can complete them as they are optional content.
What content isn’t optional?
Also the term “challenging” is relative. They could make raids 10 times easier and it would still be “challenging” to some. I know about people being perfectly statisfied by say the difficulty of dungeons, it’s challenging and rewarding enough to keep them repeating it .
The way I see it the people against tiered difficulty think there are only two kinds of people: those who like raids and those who only like to hit one button to be rewarded. They seem to ignore the people in-between.
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
Except that raids aren’t supposed to be easy. They’ve been designed to be challenging group content.
So instead of complaining about it, go get to the point where you can complete them as they are optional content.
What content isn’t optional?
Also the term “challenging” is relative. They could make raids 10 times easier and it would still be “challenging” to some. I know about people being perfectly statisfied by say the difficulty of dungeons, it’s challenging and rewarding enough to keep them repeating it .
The way I see it the people against tiered difficulty think there are only two kinds of people: those who like raids and those who only like to hit one button to be rewarded. They seem to ignore the people in-between.
Yes they could make it 100x easier and there would people that fail at them. So you are saying that will always be people unhappy with the difficulty be it easier or harder. And thats the absolute truth, its impossible to please everyone.
So by your logic its a waste of developer time, instead of change current raids ( that would still upset people, maybe new people will enjoy, but maybe people that enjoy it now will dislike so ), they need to seetle for 1 difficulty instead . And the difficulty they choose is the one we have. For me its perfect, because its hard enough to make it challenging+fun and at same time easy enought to make it versatile.
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
Except that raids aren’t supposed to be easy. They’ve been designed to be challenging group content.
So instead of complaining about it, go get to the point where you can complete them as they are optional content.
What content isn’t optional?
Also the term “challenging” is relative. They could make raids 10 times easier and it would still be “challenging” to some. I know about people being perfectly statisfied by say the difficulty of dungeons, it’s challenging and rewarding enough to keep them repeating it .
The way I see it the people against tiered difficulty think there are only two kinds of people: those who like raids and those who only like to hit one button to be rewarded. They seem to ignore the people in-between.
Yes they could make it 100x easier and there would people that fail at them. So you are saying that will always be people unhappy with the difficulty be it easier or harder. And thats the absolute truth, its impossible to please everyone.
So by your logic its a waste of developer time, instead of change current raids ( that would still upset people, maybe new people will enjoy, but maybe people that enjoy it now will dislike so ), they need to seetle for 1 difficulty instead . And the difficulty they choose is the one we have. For me its perfect, because its hard enough to make it challenging+fun and at same time easy enought to make it versatile.
You are right , it is impossible to please everyone, the amount of unstatisfied people however does matter. Take a look at the period between the release of HoT and the first chapter of living story. People refer to it as a a 8 months long content drought, even though raid wings were released consistently through this time period. Even MO refered to it as a content “draught”. Does that mean the average player doesn’t consider the raids as content at all? I’d say very likely. This situation may be perfect for you, but I think it could be improved. Imagine what would you think now of raids if you didn’t gave it a second chance, also imagine how many people didn’t even give it one.
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
Except that raids aren’t supposed to be easy. They’ve been designed to be challenging group content.
So instead of complaining about it, go get to the point where you can complete them as they are optional content.
What content isn’t optional?
Also the term “challenging” is relative. They could make raids 10 times easier and it would still be “challenging” to some. I know about people being perfectly statisfied by say the difficulty of dungeons, it’s challenging and rewarding enough to keep them repeating it .
The way I see it the people against tiered difficulty think there are only two kinds of people: those who like raids and those who only like to hit one button to be rewarded. They seem to ignore the people in-between.
Yes they could make it 100x easier and there would people that fail at them. So you are saying that will always be people unhappy with the difficulty be it easier or harder. And thats the absolute truth, its impossible to please everyone.
So by your logic its a waste of developer time, instead of change current raids ( that would still upset people, maybe new people will enjoy, but maybe people that enjoy it now will dislike so ), they need to seetle for 1 difficulty instead . And the difficulty they choose is the one we have. For me its perfect, because its hard enough to make it challenging+fun and at same time easy enought to make it versatile.
You are right , it is impossible to please everyone, the amount of unstatisfied people however does matter. Take a look at the period between the release of HoT and the first chapter of living story. People refer to it as a a 8 months long content drought, even though raid wings were released consistently through this time period. Even MO refered to it as a content “draught”. Does that mean the average player doesn’t consider the raids as content at all? I’d say very likely. This situation may be perfect for you, but I think it could be improved. Imagine what would you think now of raids if you didn’t gave it a second chance, also imagine how many people didn’t even give it one.
The people that dont care about raids, dont care about raids no matter the difficult. So they would still cry about content drought.
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
Except that raids aren’t supposed to be easy. They’ve been designed to be challenging group content.
So instead of complaining about it, go get to the point where you can complete them as they are optional content.
What content isn’t optional?
Also the term “challenging” is relative. They could make raids 10 times easier and it would still be “challenging” to some. I know about people being perfectly statisfied by say the difficulty of dungeons, it’s challenging and rewarding enough to keep them repeating it .
The way I see it the people against tiered difficulty think there are only two kinds of people: those who like raids and those who only like to hit one button to be rewarded. They seem to ignore the people in-between.
Yes they could make it 100x easier and there would people that fail at them. So you are saying that will always be people unhappy with the difficulty be it easier or harder. And thats the absolute truth, its impossible to please everyone.
So by your logic its a waste of developer time, instead of change current raids ( that would still upset people, maybe new people will enjoy, but maybe people that enjoy it now will dislike so ), they need to seetle for 1 difficulty instead . And the difficulty they choose is the one we have. For me its perfect, because its hard enough to make it challenging+fun and at same time easy enought to make it versatile.
You are right , it is impossible to please everyone, the amount of unstatisfied people however does matter. Take a look at the period between the release of HoT and the first chapter of living story. People refer to it as a a 8 months long content drought, even though raid wings were released consistently through this time period. Even MO refered to it as a content “draught”. Does that mean the average player doesn’t consider the raids as content at all? I’d say very likely. This situation may be perfect for you, but I think it could be improved. Imagine what would you think now of raids if you didn’t gave it a second chance, also imagine how many people didn’t even give it one.
The people that dont care about raids, dont care about raids no matter the difficult. So they would still cry about content drought.
And you know this how? I’m in a casual guild, once raids dropped we organized VG tries several times , we had the numbers to from a group no problem, however as we made little to no progress over the weeks, the enthusiasm dropped. The majority of people from my guild who tried raiding back in november didn’t even bother to try them again. The few who wanted to had no choice but to search for another guild or to go PUG. I’ve seen this happen to more people than I can remember. In my perspective the interest is very much there.
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
Except that raids aren’t supposed to be easy. They’ve been designed to be challenging group content.
So instead of complaining about it, go get to the point where you can complete them as they are optional content.
What content isn’t optional?
Also the term “challenging” is relative. They could make raids 10 times easier and it would still be “challenging” to some. I know about people being perfectly statisfied by say the difficulty of dungeons, it’s challenging and rewarding enough to keep them repeating it .
The way I see it the people against tiered difficulty think there are only two kinds of people: those who like raids and those who only like to hit one button to be rewarded. They seem to ignore the people in-between.
If they made it easier, people would still complain. See escort and trio.
Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way. There is no reason for the devs to cater to this notion that you need tier based rewards for times. All that does is restrict builds even further, restrict groups to best players only, and diminish the already strong PuG community of raiding.
If your guild had problems, well shucks sounds bad man. My guild had its own drama but we still manage to raid weekly and do just fine. Yes people experienced failure and a lot of it, however its up to whoever is leading to put the raiders in the right mindset. Failure is learning. If you constantly fail and take away nothing from your tries then you weren’t learning at all.
Point is every guild has its flaws but that doesn’t mean just because yours failed that the raids need to be changed to accommodate you.
As per you dungeon analogy, i have to respectfully disagree. People ran dungeons not because they were “challenging” but because they were lucrative. Dungeons pre-Hot and Post LS1 were a gold farmers haven both the liquid gold, Karma, Exp, Tokens, and Raw materials meant running them was easy, enjoyable gold gain. This is opposed to the TP flipping investment game which many found boring, or the miners life which was equally bad when it came to fun factor.
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
Except that raids aren’t supposed to be easy. They’ve been designed to be challenging group content.
So instead of complaining about it, go get to the point where you can complete them as they are optional content.
What content isn’t optional?
Also the term “challenging” is relative. They could make raids 10 times easier and it would still be “challenging” to some. I know about people being perfectly statisfied by say the difficulty of dungeons, it’s challenging and rewarding enough to keep them repeating it .
The way I see it the people against tiered difficulty think there are only two kinds of people: those who like raids and those who only like to hit one button to be rewarded. They seem to ignore the people in-between.
If they made it easier, people would still complain. See escort and trio.
Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way. There is no reason for the devs to cater to this notion that you need tier based rewards for times. All that does is restrict builds even further, restrict groups to best players only, and diminish the already strong PuG community of raiding.
If your guild had problems, well shucks sounds bad man. My guild had its own drama but we still manage to raid weekly and do just fine. Yes people experienced failure and a lot of it, however its up to whoever is leading to put the raiders in the right mindset. Failure is learning. If you constantly fail and take away nothing from your tries then you weren’t learning at all.
Point is every guild has its flaws but that doesn’t mean just because yours failed that the raids need to be changed to accommodate you.
As per you dungeon analogy, i have to respectfully disagree. People ran dungeons not because they were “challenging” but because they were lucrative. Dungeons pre-Hot and Post LS1 were a gold farmers haven both the liquid gold, Karma, Exp, Tokens, and Raw materials meant running them was easy, enjoyable gold gain. This is opposed to the TP flipping investment game which many found boring, or the miners life which was equally bad when it came to fun factor.
People would still complain whatever they do, that isn’t an argument. What really matters is the reason behind a complaint. If I didn’t think it was reasonable to ask for a tiered difficulty system I wouldn’t do it.
You are confusing me with someone, I never asked for a tiered reward system based on clear times, and I didn’t write my guild’s situation to demonstrate how bad it is for me. I’ve had my problems with raids, but I’ve overcome them, but I still think the focus of repeatable instanced end game content shouldn’t come with that much frustration/preparation. Not if there is no alternative at least. I’ve tried my best ,for example when I learned to tank VG I killed it 7 times a week with PUG with two different classes, I’ve learned how to catch bombs at Sabetha with revenant and stuff like that , but that still wasn’t enough to have a great time with those I’ve had a great time playing dungeons with.
And on my dungeon analogy, you can disagree , that doesn’t mean people don’t run them just for fun, don’t have to set prerequirements and have a good time. Perhaps all you saw was speedclears and gold farm, doesn’t mean that was the only thing people did.
Well radis are just for 5-10% of gw2 population.
Make easy normal and hard mode for Raids so we can choose which mode we want to join and the everyone is happy.
Except that raids aren’t supposed to be easy. They’ve been designed to be challenging group content.
So instead of complaining about it, go get to the point where you can complete them as they are optional content.
What content isn’t optional?
Also the term “challenging” is relative. They could make raids 10 times easier and it would still be “challenging” to some. I know about people being perfectly statisfied by say the difficulty of dungeons, it’s challenging and rewarding enough to keep them repeating it .
The way I see it the people against tiered difficulty think there are only two kinds of people: those who like raids and those who only like to hit one button to be rewarded. They seem to ignore the people in-between.
If they made it easier, people would still complain. See escort and trio.
Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way. There is no reason for the devs to cater to this notion that you need tier based rewards for times. All that does is restrict builds even further, restrict groups to best players only, and diminish the already strong PuG community of raiding.
If your guild had problems, well shucks sounds bad man. My guild had its own drama but we still manage to raid weekly and do just fine. Yes people experienced failure and a lot of it, however its up to whoever is leading to put the raiders in the right mindset. Failure is learning. If you constantly fail and take away nothing from your tries then you weren’t learning at all.
Point is every guild has its flaws but that doesn’t mean just because yours failed that the raids need to be changed to accommodate you.
As per you dungeon analogy, i have to respectfully disagree. People ran dungeons not because they were “challenging” but because they were lucrative. Dungeons pre-Hot and Post LS1 were a gold farmers haven both the liquid gold, Karma, Exp, Tokens, and Raw materials meant running them was easy, enjoyable gold gain. This is opposed to the TP flipping investment game which many found boring, or the miners life which was equally bad when it came to fun factor.
People would still complain whatever they do, that isn’t an argument. What really matters is the reason behind a complaint. If I didn’t think it was reasonable to ask for a tiered difficulty system I wouldn’t do it.
You are confusing me with someone, I never asked for a tiered reward system based on clear times, and I didn’t write my guild’s situation to demonstrate how bad it is for me. I’ve had my problems with raids, but I’ve overcome them, but I still think the focus of repeatable instanced end game content shouldn’t come with that much frustration/preparation. Not if there is no alternative at least. I’ve tried my best ,for example when I learned to tank VG I killed it 7 times a week with PUG with two different classes, I’ve learned how to catch bombs at Sabetha with revenant and stuff like that , but that still wasn’t enough to have a great time with those I’ve had a great time playing dungeons with.
And on my dungeon analogy, you can disagree , that doesn’t mean people don’t run them just for fun, don’t have to set prerequirements and have a good time. Perhaps all you saw was speedclears and gold farm, doesn’t mean that was the only thing people did.
Well people run raids today just for fun too, i for example after i get to the cap, and already clearead all bosses, still run VG just for the fun or just to help fellow guild members.
And there is a alternative for end game instanced content, its called T4 fractals.
I think you dont like the core of what raids are, for that reason you cant find fun on the current ones, and no matter what they do you will not find raids fun, because as i said you dont find the core of what a raid is fun.
And on my dungeon analogy, you can disagree , that doesn’t mean people don’t run them just for fun, don’t have to set prerequirements and have a good time. Perhaps all you saw was speedclears and gold farm, doesn’t mean that was the only thing people did.
And just because all you ever look for on LFG is meta x class role. Doesnt mean there’s not groups out there just looking for DPS/Healer/Tank without any other req.
So if we want to play the ignorance is bliss card your argument falls even further apart.
And if you think you’re going to find any more basic join request than that, you’re a bit confused on what makes a raid a raid and successful. It’s not on the individual, it’s on the group. Everyone has a part to play, sorry if dungeons trained you to be a solo-hero carrying bads, but that’s not how raids work.
Game design 101.
Designing specific sets of content for specific subsets of the user base eventually results in the game being lopsided in specific types of content, and a polarized player base. The player(s) whose play style was not catered to in the past few iterations begin to attrite. Either more casual players end up hitting a barrier to entry for new content and are told repeatedly by hard core players that this is not for them, or the hard core players are wondering where their endgame is while casual players map their way through the expansion.
Looking at raids as content like everything else, and designing them for everyone, disallows this polarization in the community from happening, and allows the dev and design teams to focus on the entire game rather than having to choose between pleasing one crowd over the other. Game retains more customers. We ALL enjoy playing ALL of the content. The peasants rejoice. Unicorns barfing rainbows, etc etc….
Game design 101.
Designing specific sets of content for specific subsets of the user base eventually results in the game being lopsided in specific types of content, and a polarized player base. The player(s) whose play style was not catered to in the past few iterations begin to attrite. Either more casual players end up hitting a barrier to entry for new content and are told repeatedly by hard core players that this is not for them, or the hard core players are wondering where their endgame is while casual players map their way through the expansion.
Looking at raids as content like everything else, and designing them for everyone, disallows this polarization in the community from happening, and allows the dev and design teams to focus on the entire game rather than having to choose between pleasing one crowd over the other. Game retains more customers. We ALL enjoy playing ALL of the content. The peasants rejoice. Unicorns barfing rainbows, etc etc….
Not a single piece of GW2 is for everyone. Even open world, not because its difficult, its super easy, and for that reason there a lot of players dislike open world because its boring. So they would need way harder open world content to enjoy it. But they wont get it.
The same way people wont get easy raids ( Well many actually would aggre that we already have easy raids, scort and trio). Every content have a target audience. Good design = having choices of type of content. Bad design = trying to please everyone twisting content of its core porpuse and never pleasing everyone because its impossible.