(edited by Cromx.3941)
Diminishing returns - an unprincipled irresponsible retribution system
Chill out bro, the system is bugged. If you’re mad at anything let it be that they pushed a broken system into live without properly testing it.
Chill out bro, the system is bugged. If you’re mad at anything let it be that they pushed a broken system into live without properly testing it.
No they said, consider if you had a high dungeon completion rate PRIOR to the new patch. That is exactly what they said. Its not bugged they intentionally are going after people who ran dungeons before the patch hit.
Im still hoping its bugged and that Red poster had the wrong info. If its intentional then.. i agree with you
80 Guardian: WvW role = Front-line Infantry
80 Thief: WvW role = Scorpion wire trolling
80 Thief: WvW role = Scorpion wire trolling
Chill out bro, the system is bugged. If you’re mad at anything let it be that they pushed a broken system into live without properly testing it.
Sorry, but from what i’ve read from the redposters they’ve seem to think there’s nothing wrong at all atm when some people in the same dungeons get 15 tokens while others get 60
Chill out bro, the system is bugged. If you’re mad at anything let it be that they pushed a broken system into live without properly testing it.
No they said, consider if you had a high dungeon completion rate PRIOR to the new patch. That is exactly what they said. Its not bugged they intentionally are going after people who ran dungeons before the patch hit.
No, they aren’t. Also, that isn’t a quote that I’ve seen ANYWHERE in here so if you wanna pull it up I’ll tell you exactly what they meant and reply with the post of them acknowledging that the system isn’t working as intended.
Im still hoping its bugged and that Red poster had the wrong info. If its intentional then.. i agree with you
Yea that red post clearly stated that, if its a bug they need to fix it, and give people the rewards they should have gotten
Chill out bro, the system is bugged. If you’re mad at anything let it be that they pushed a broken system into live without properly testing it.
No they said, consider if you had a high dungeon completion rate PRIOR to the new patch. That is exactly what they said. Its not bugged they intentionally are going after people who ran dungeons before the patch hit.
No, it’s bugged, you need to chill out.
“You guys deserve empty servers” Wow, what a nice thing to say. They are really going to listen to you now. Or not, since companies do not communicate with such rude disgusting people.
Chill out bro, the system is bugged. If you’re mad at anything let it be that they pushed a broken system into live without properly testing it.
Sorry, but from what i’ve read from the redposters they’ve seem to think there’s nothing wrong at all atm when some people in the same dungeons get 15 tokens while others get 60
Robert thinks there’s nothing wrong because he doesn’t know how to check his code (not really his fault, he can’t change his mindset from that of a dev). Jon accepted that the code probably isn’t working as intended and implied as much in his post to the “not getting 60 badges” thread.
But seriously, what would make people on the same dungeon earn more or less rewards?
This bug just showed to us that they are nerfing people individually. In that case, it makes me wonder if the op isnt right.
Chill out bro, the system is bugged. If you’re mad at anything let it be that they pushed a broken system into live without properly testing it.
No they said, consider if you had a high dungeon completion rate PRIOR to the new patch. That is exactly what they said. Its not bugged they intentionally are going after people who ran dungeons before the patch hit.
No, it’s bugged, you need to chill out.
“You guys deserve empty servers” Wow, what a nice thing to say. They are really going to listen to you now. Or not, since companies do not communicate with such rude disgusting people.
Like they have been listening already? THEY ARENT LISTENING. They obviosuly don’t care about their players else they would never intentionally go after people with the new rewards system.
No one is running dungeons anymore as it is, getting hard as heck to find groups. Its not like they are listening to us anyways, everything from the dungeon design to the reward system has been designed by some disconnected person working at anet. My only guess is he works in the basement and does not get enough social contact with other human beings so that he can understand designing a retributive retroactive rewards system is not the best of ideas.
I am just saying they are so far off course with this stuff….its crazy. Hey maybe its a BUG and not a PUNISHMENT…..but what I have read from the red posters makes it seem like they actually went back in time to “get” those people who ran the dungeons. Think of what else they did that fits this mentality, they made CM story a nightmare to run….just sprinkled awful mobs all over the place, they hastily threw in the rewards patch and buffed dungeons without proper testing.
The case can certainly be made that they were reacting with a mindset of vengeance against people just playing their game the way they designed it. We are not even talking about glitches. So the retroactive retributive reward system in this context actually fits.
if this is not intentional I’d like to hear the straight truth.
But seriously, what would make people on the same dungeon earn more or less rewards?
This bug just showed to us that they are nerfing people individually. In that case, it makes me wonder if the op isnt right.
OP isn’t right because there is no consistency to the reports of lower than expected badge gains. It’s very obvious that the code is kitten up at random.
But seriously, what would make people on the same dungeon earn more or less rewards?
This bug just showed to us that they are nerfing people individually. In that case, it makes me wonder if the op isnt right.
OP isn’t right because there is no consistency to the reports of lower than expected badge gains. It’s very obvious that the code is kitten up at random.
Not 100% random. People who were farming are the ones with diminished returns.
Diminishing returns - an unprincipled irresponsible retribution system
Posted by: Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458
All rewards are susceptible to our code that is dealing with people who are speed clearing dungeons. If you find yourself getting less rewards consider whether or not your rate of dungeon completion is extremely high. This did not get reset with the patch.
If you think you are running at a fairly reasonable pace post all of the chains you have run and the times to complete and we will file it to try and figure out if it is a bug. Please post accurate times, otherwise we cannot determine if there are in fact bugs in the system.
Thanks,
Jon
There is your Quote. They targeting people specifically that ran dungeons with exploits. This is a witch hunt and to be honest i find it quite amusing how a professional gaming company can act in such a vindictive way almost like a spoiled little brat that does not get what it wants.
I have lost all respect for this company and the developers. They should be glad we test their bugged game and discover exploits. Without us they are NOTHING.
I could not care less, the medium dungeon armours are all really ugly and not worth my time.
Cheers | Skyrant
“The DR System is not restricting players, it just here to help them realize how they want to play!”
Like they have been listening already? THEY ARENT LISTENING. They obviosuly don’t care about their players else they would never intentionally go after people with the new rewards system.
They haven’t been listening? Then tell me why did they bother with the 25th September patch? Why bother changing the tokens? Why bother fixing the exploits that people have been posting on the forums? Why fix other things? They do listen, however not to people who have indecency to insult them and wish misfortune upon them and their company. Seriously, the first thing I thought when I read your post was “entitlement” this isn’t helping the case at all. Sometimes I wonder why the devs even bother reading the forums when it’s so full of non-constructive criticism, people whining and there’s only 1% of the post actually being worth while.
Oh and for the record clearing a dungeon fast is NOT an exploit. I certainly never exploited anything I did clear dungeons as fast as I could. Killing every mob along the way.
All rewards are susceptible to our code that is dealing with people who are speed clearing dungeons. If you find yourself getting less rewards consider whether or not your rate of dungeon completion is extremely high. This did not get reset with the patch.
If you think you are running at a fairly reasonable pace post all of the chains you have run and the times to complete and we will file it to try and figure out if it is a bug. Please post accurate times, otherwise we cannot determine if there are in fact bugs in the system.
Thanks,
Jon
There is your Quote. They targeting people specifically that ran dungeons with exploits. This is a witch hunt and to be honest i find it quite amusing how a professional gaming company can act in such a vindictive way almost like a spoiled little brat that does not get what it wants.
I have lost all respect for this company and the developers. They should be glad we test their bugged game and discover exploits. Without us they are NOTHING.
I could not care less, the medium dungeon armours are all really ugly and not worth my time.
Cheers | Skyrant
Exactly my issue. Its not the fact thats it all jacked up…I can live with it…I would still complain but it happens. However when they “go after” people like this its just outside the professional standards for any company. They need to get rid of people there, this isn’t a mistake its a mindset.
Its like the difference between someone accidently knocking you over, and someone pushing you over. The intent is what matters clearly.
Like they have been listening already? THEY ARENT LISTENING. They obviosuly don’t care about their players else they would never intentionally go after people with the new rewards system.
They haven’t been listening? Then tell me why did they bother with the 25th September patch? Why bother changing the tokens? Why bother fixing the exploits that people have been posting on the forums? Why fix other things? They do listen, however not to people who have indecency to insult them and wish misfortune upon them and their company. Seriously, the first thing I thought when I read your post was “entitlement” this isn’t helping the case at all. Sometimes I wonder why the devs even bother reading the forums when it’s so full of non-constructive criticism, people whining and there’s only 1% of the post actually being worth while.
What fixes are you referring to specifically? Near as I can tell the only reason they pushed the 25th patch out was because they felt that too many people were still running dungeons, or at least that is the impression that the effect of it has given.
You’re verging dangerously close to fanboyism here. The problems have been clearly document and complained about here already.
But seriously, what would make people on the same dungeon earn more or less rewards?
This bug just showed to us that they are nerfing people individually. In that case, it makes me wonder if the op isnt right.
OP isn’t right because there is no consistency to the reports of lower than expected badge gains. It’s very obvious that the code is kitten up at random.
Not 100% random. People who were farming are the ones with diminished returns.
And so are people who are doing their first ever explorable mode runs after the patch.
All rewards are susceptible to our code that is dealing with people who are speed clearing dungeons. If you find yourself getting less rewards consider whether or not your rate of dungeon completion is extremely high. This did not get reset with the patch.
If you think you are running at a fairly reasonable pace post all of the chains you have run and the times to complete and we will file it to try and figure out if it is a bug. Please post accurate times, otherwise we cannot determine if there are in fact bugs in the system.
Thanks,
Jon
There is your Quote. They targeting people specifically that ran dungeons with exploits. This is a witch hunt and to be honest i find it quite amusing how a professional gaming company can act in such a vindictive way almost like a spoiled little brat that does not get what it wants.
I have lost all respect for this company and the developers. They should be glad we test their bugged game and discover exploits. Without us they are NOTHING.
I could not care less, the medium dungeon armours are all really ugly and not worth my time.
Cheers | Skyrant
It’s not even a witchhunt. The system is so blatantly bugged that there is no denying it. There’s 9 pages of reports of times of runs in the sticky reporting the apparently random allotment of rewards.
Diminishing returns - an unprincipled irresponsible retribution system
Posted by: Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458
Like they have been listening already? THEY ARENT LISTENING. They obviosuly don’t care about their players else they would never intentionally go after people with the new rewards system.
They haven’t been listening? Then tell me why did they bother with the 25th September patch? Why bother changing the tokens? Why bother fixing the exploits that people have been posting on the forums? Why fix other things? They do listen, however not to people who have indecency to insult them and wish misfortune upon them and their company. Seriously, the first thing I thought when I read your post was “entitlement” this isn’t helping the case at all. Sometimes I wonder why the devs even bother reading the forums when it’s so full of non-constructive criticism, people whining and there’s only 1% of the post actually being worth while.
They did not fix the problems (exploits). They just wasted their time putting in a penalty system instead of fixing the real issue here: THE BAD DUNGEON DESIGN!
I said this before, it takes a few minutes to block off a jumping exploit, but they took it upon themselves to start a witch hunt and put in a penalty system that affects ALL players.
That is unprofessional and quite honestly the most idiotic thing i have seen a developer do since the famous NGE Star Wars Galaxy change.
“The DR System is not restricting players, it just here to help them realize how they want to play!”
It seems the devs are contradicting each other..
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-Discussion-9-25-1/page/4#post255660
Hey everyone. We are currently investigating the issue with dungeon rewards not being awarded properly, and will be implementing a fix as soon as it is available. Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to bring it to our attention, as well as those who have provided as much information as they can to help isolate the problem!
If you run into this issue in the meantime, please make note of the rewards you received in respect to others in your party and list that information here. Please be sure to include the name of the dungeon, as well as any insight into what other dungeons you have run with an approximate time that they were completed (i.e. 16 hours ago, 3 hours ago, etc.).
Again, thank you for reporting this issue!
The easiest fix to this would be that if you want us killing trash and not skipping content, the content should be worth clearing.
This is the first time I’ve played a game where the rewards for killing a boss is a chance at some of the lowest quality loot and not enough gold to pay your repair bill.
Personally, I feel that the drops should be FAR more and that the trash should have a chance to drop the tokens. I’d clear instances with friends if this were the case.
As it stands, for me to complete a dungeon set I need to run a dungeon upwards of 80+ times. This is counter to the initial statements of developers saying that this game shouldn’t be a grind fest.
As it stands, much of the end game content just isn’t fun. When there’s no taunt mechanic and mobs can knockdown/perma stun till you die, trash isn’t enjoyable.
I get that the game is supposed to be challenging. Running the instances should be enjoyable. And I have to admit, I am enjoying them for the first couple runs. However, having to run an instance… 80 times to get gear seems a bit, well… grindy.
I’ve never experienced a game where I would have to spend this much time running instances to get loot. Loot should be achieved by skill and we should be rewarded for that skill. As it stands, we’re penalized for it and tortured for accomplishing something.
On your next expansion, I advise that you put more focus on adding things such as jumping puzzles and chests at the end of them with bonus tokens. These can only be opened so many times a week. These would be found after a boss.
I appreciate the content so far and the leveling has been some of the most rewarding to date. Your dungeons need to follow suit.
(edited by Zagdul.1502)
Diminishing returns - an unprincipled irresponsible retribution system
Posted by: Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458
All rewards are susceptible to our code that is dealing with people who are speed clearing dungeons. If you find yourself getting less rewards consider whether or not your rate of dungeon completion is extremely high. This did not get reset with the patch.
If you think you are running at a fairly reasonable pace post all of the chains you have run and the times to complete and we will file it to try and figure out if it is a bug. Please post accurate times, otherwise we cannot determine if there are in fact bugs in the system.
Thanks,
Jon
There is your Quote. They targeting people specifically that ran dungeons with exploits. This is a witch hunt and to be honest i find it quite amusing how a professional gaming company can act in such a vindictive way almost like a spoiled little brat that does not get what it wants.
I have lost all respect for this company and the developers. They should be glad we test their bugged game and discover exploits. Without us they are NOTHING.
I could not care less, the medium dungeon armours are all really ugly and not worth my time.
Cheers | Skyrant
It’s not even a witchhunt. The system is so blatantly bugged that there is no denying it. There’s 9 pages of reports of times of runs in the sticky reporting the apparently random allotment of rewards.
Well, probably bugged too. It’s to be expected when systems like these are put together in a hurry.
It’s still sad, very sad that they spend their time doing this instead of fixing the real problem.
“The DR System is not restricting players, it just here to help them realize how they want to play!”
i personally have done 10-20 dungeon runs across multiple different dungeons since release and i am getting DR. is that farming?
for the dungeon runs i did today, doing 3 different paths, i got 45-30-15 tokens.
Diminishing returns feels like Final Fantasy XIV’s limited experience per day thing.
Stop trying to fix it and GET RID OF IT!
You don’t need to force us into your content to have us re-play it. We’ll do it because it’s fun, if it is.
Make achievements for defeating bosses differently and create mechanics for achieving such things. Blizzard didn’t patent this and I advise you flat out plagiarize this as it works.
Speed runs, defeating without deaths, etc etc etc… Pass the gear and tokens out like candy, provided you achieve things.
The bottom line is this, you don’t have a fee for us to pay each month. Provide good content, reward us for it and we’ll return and continue to play because IT IS FUN.
Penalize us for playing the game and we’ll walk away. We won’t have a reason to use the gem store for chests, pets, etc.
I think you’ve learned a valuable lesson here. Going forward with future content. You need to focus on the mini achievements as the gratification of accomplishing them should be rewarded. This is the key to your leveling process. Renowned hearts and jumping puzzles as well as exploring is what makes this game awesome. Implement these mechanics into your dungeons.
Less horribly scripted mobs and poor mechanics.
Please people, it’s just a bug, be patient.
I got reduced rewards for no reason what-so-ever so just wait.
“I have lost all respect for this company and the developers.”
seriously what is wrong with people these days?
honestly, grow up please, I don’t want to come to the forums to read this garbage.
The complaint isn’t the bug. The complaint is the diminishing returns on tokens.
It’s counter to their initial claims of this game not being a ‘grind fest’ due to them not having a monthly fee and no need for a grind.
“We’ve eliminated the grind” <—- that’s from their initial promo videos.
With the current mechanic of diminishing returns. This implements a hard grind into the game. An unnecessary one.
Im still hoping its bugged and that Red poster had the wrong info. If its intentional then.. i agree with you
Well, but you’re not supposed to agree or disagree. For this, ArenaNet would have to be open about the rules of the game they intend us to play. However, the rules change while we play and we’re not being told what the rules are before or after the change.
We’re told that there are rules and what the intend of the rules is, but never the rules themselves. Any casino operating on these principles would immediately be shut down, I know, but this is an MMO, not a casino, so obviously that’s OK.
Hello,
Please help keep these forums a productive and friendly place by posting in a respectful tone.
Thank you.
Im still hoping its bugged and that Red poster had the wrong info. If its intentional then.. i agree with you
Well, but you’re not supposed to agree or disagree. For this, ArenaNet would have to be open about the rules of the game they intend us to play. However, the rules change while we play and we’re not being told what the rules are before or after the change.
We’re told that there are rules and what the intend of the rules is, but never the rules themselves. Any casino operating on these principles would immediately be shut down, I know, but this is an MMO, not a casino, so obviously that’s OK.
Not being explicit on the mechanics is quite annoying, but we are still in early days and they are making a few changes, so they will probably give one when the system settles a little.
What I’m confused about is the DR system for repeating a path.
Repeating the same path back to back (before the patch) gave you 5 tokens at the end, not 15. Doing them too fast also gives DR, but one of the devs said that the limit was 2 an hour. So you would need to do a path within 30 minutes, which is quite a feat for some of the dungeons, especially for people like me who frequently go to get more food and drink.
It’s not even a witchhunt. The system is so blatantly bugged that there is no denying it. There’s 9 pages of reports of times of runs in the sticky reporting the apparently random allotment of rewards.
This is my sentiment exactly.
And it’s deeply, deeply troubling.
The last MMO I witnessed rolling out patches like there’s no tomorrow was SW:TOR. The problem was, that they were introducing new bugs left and right. In fact, it felt as if they were introducing more bugs than they fixed. It was apparent that there was no real testing going on, that it was more important to get the patch out the door than to get it working properly.
Lately, I see signs of the same patch-mentality in GW2, and that’s deeply troubling. I don’t care if something’s broken for another week if I have confidence that there will be a patch, that the patch will fix the issue and that it will not break much in the process.
Also troubling is the fact that the new systems that are bugging out are not bugfixes themselves. They are mechanics introduced to regulate playstyles. Such mechanics should be very, very low priority.
Oh, you say, they’re anti-bot, anti-exploit! No they aren’t. I’ll tell you what’s anti-bot: A callcenter full of GMs, one at every time of the day for every server answering player-reports about bots and exploiters and sifting through server logs for telltale traces of exploits / botting.
The thing is this I have not been playing GW2 much lately specifically for this reason. To find out they intended to screw me on purpose is really an insult over injury.
last night I decided to “trust” anet and give CM explore another go. Took awhile but found a group who needed a 5th. This group had never run CM explore at all. So it was a little brutal, I ended up leading parts of it and I really carried the water a lot for the whole group. I ate a few deaths trying to make it work, at one point people were going to give up and I went ahead and started solo clearing and got rid of the rocket launchers where you have to reflect the rockets back. I soloed the 3 mobs at the end of that hall way with the circle spike traps while everyone was downed and getting skewered over and over.
Now personally I don’t mind doing this, I like to help people out. But when we finally finished the last boss off these other guys got full rewards some guy got some kind of death blossoms…linking it in chat…and I got jack krap. Was my time less valuable than theirs? Did they do more to earn their rewards than I did?
The problem is this happens every time I run a dungeon. So to find out that they intentionally did this to me? Well of course that is absurd and going to cause some anger…and how long before I can actually run a dungeon and get the same rewards as EVERYONE ELSE!!? Why am I being punished for doing nothing wrong?
Just how empty do your servers have to get before you realize what that patch did to your game? Pre-patch everyone having fun playing the game, after patch a barren wasteland where its nigh impossible to find a group. Was that your intent? Do you have internal graphs showing population pre and post patch? You ought to fire the brainchild who came up with that idea.
(edited by Cromx.3941)
Diminishing returns - an unprincipled irresponsible retribution system
Posted by: Skyrant Kangaroomouse.7458
The thing is this I have not been playing GW2 much lately specifically for this reason. To find out they intended to screw me on purpose is really an insult over injury.
last night I decided to “trust” anet and give CM explore another go. Took awhile but found a group who needed a 5th. This group had never run CM explore at all. So it was a little brutal, I ended up leading parts of it and I really carried the water a lot for the whole group. I ate a few deaths trying to make it work, at one point people were going to give up and I went ahead and started solo clearing and got rid of the rocket launchers where you have to reflect the rockets back. I soloed the 3 mobs at the end of that hall way with the circle spike traps while everyone was downed and getting skewered over and over.
Now personally I don’t mind doing this, I like to help people out. But when we finally finished the last boss off these other guys got full rewards some guy got some kind of death blossoms…linking it in chat…and I got jack krap. Was my time less valuable than theirs? Did they do more to earn their rewards than I did?
The problem is this happens every time I run a dungeon. So to find out that they intentionally did this to me? Well of course that is absurd and going to cause some anger…and how long before I can actually run a dungeon and get the same rewards as EVERYONE ELSE!!? Why am I being punished for doing nothing wrong?
You are being punished because they are mad that their “Incredible hard dungeons only for the seasoned Elite players” are in fact trivial and super easy to master by an even just average group WITHOUT EXPLOITING.
That is the only reason why they lash out and introduce these ill conceived systems instead of working on the dungeons to make them a real challenge and by challenge i mean adding difficult content not adding another digit to a Mobs HP.
This is not the end of it either, because in about a months time when everyone catches on and knows how to run these effectively, they need to develop a new system that punishes us even more.
“The DR System is not restricting players, it just here to help them realize how they want to play!”
If anyone bothers to read the patch notes, we’re promised 60tokens for every 1st path completion of the day.
Which totals to 180tokens per day and only 20tokens for every repeated runs afterwards.
I have friends completely geared in TA armor looking to get another weapon still getting their 60 tokens while I’m here, still without a single piece, being “rewarded” 6 tokens and proceeded by a different path and 15 tokens.
No, this system isn’t targeting farmers, it’s targeting people at random yes, but not “farmers” specifically.
I just need the silver for my armor. I played enough to have earned what I need, still don’t have it.