Guild Wars 2

I’ve assumed for a while now that- given the sorts of changes A-net has implemented in the past- CoF farming is doomed. It may not be tomorrow, it may not be next week, but someday, it will be brought to an end in the harshest possible way. It will be so bad that the CoF farmers will rank the new AC as more farm-able. Aspiring dungeon masters will have to refresh lfg.com for hours just to get a CoF group together. Each trash mob will be replaced with pre-nerf Lupicus. Anyways, you get the picture.

This thread isn’t about the actual likelihood of that happening though, it’s about how people would feel about that happening. Currently, the disparity in profitability of farming CoF P1 and any other activity- in raw gold per hour- is massive. I imagine that a nerf to CoF farming would raise a huge outcry along the lines of what we saw in response to the implementation of diminishing returns, etc: “A-net is forcing us to play the game their way, and we should be able to choose to play it our way.” In this argument, ‘forcing’ is used with the assumption that players want to gain gold as efficiently as possible, and so A-net is able to force players to do or not do things simply by altering what is and is not the most efficient way to make gold.

But with the current state of things, aren’t players just as ‘forced’ to play a certain way? If high-level fractals suddenly gave 1-3 exotics in the final chest each time, people would complain that A-net was forcing them to run fractals. Anyone not doing fractals would find prices rising faster than they could make money, and so they would not be able to realistically pursue a legendary or other luxuries. CoF doesn’t give 1-3 exotics per run, but you can see the point- CoF farming just shines too much in comparison to other money-making methods.

If I want a legendary- time to invest in a warrior and some berserker gear, and go farm CoF. If I want a luxury item like a black lion training contract- time to CoF. Heck, if I want a fancy dye- time to CoF. It’s so bad that the common consensus on legendaries is that it’s most efficient to buy all the mats, because gold gain through CoF is so much faster.

Would it really be so bad if there were actually some other options? Let’s say you are going to start building a legendary, and you are interested in doing this as efficiently as you possibly can. If you could choose which is most efficient- a variety of world and dungeon activities or running the same dungeon endlessly- which would you choose for yourself?

Now obviously it would be nice if A-net decided to buff other activities to equal the profitability of CoF farming. People that want to CoF farm would be happy, people that don’t want to CoF farm but do enjoy one of the newly buffed activities would be happy. I think we can all agree, however, that this is very unlikely. Much more likely that CoF is just nerfed to oblivion. This would mean that the most efficient way to gain gold post-patch would be significantly less efficient than the method pre-patch. I’m not going to say that that isn’t an upsetting thing.

However, I personally would still be happy about the patch. There will always be one dungeon/event/instance/whatever that is most efficient, but the gap between varied play and optimal play would be significantly smaller than it is right now. I would suddenly possess the freedom to enjoy different world events, dungeons, and activities and know that I was progressing towards an expensive goal in an efficient way, not too far from the optimal way. (Let’s leave the trading post game out of this, that’s an entirely different bag of Charr).

Also consider- true CoF farming is much more than just grinding a certain path in a certain dungeon. It is adopting a single build, for one of two classes. I’m not complaining that people are excluded, because quite honestly it isn’t very hard to acquire a level 80 warrior and berserker gear. For the purposes of this discussion, let’s assume that every player actually has, as one of their characters, a warrior that is properly geared for CoF farming. Ta’da, he’s yours. You can go make money at a decent rate with any class of your chosen build that you enjoy playing with, or you can make money at a wtfbbq rate with your berserker build warrior. What are you going to do, assuming you are, once again, interested in progressing efficiently towards a luxury goal? Which option would you find more fun?

I’m really interested in hearing your answer to two questions:
1) If A-net asked you if they should buff a wide variety of activities in the game to be just as profitable as CoF farming, what would you say?
2) If A-net asked you if they should nerf CoF so that the disparity between the optimal gold farming method and high-but-not-quite-optimal methods was dramatically lessened, what would you say?

1. I’m not so optimistic that all the said activities would be balanced. One would sill be more profitable and people would just flock there.

2. Yes, please nerf CoF. It would at least slightly increase the value of gold. The numerous “speedrun for hours” posts on gw2lfg should be an indication of how people are exploiting this dungeon.

I don’t like that CoF p1 exists as it is. I don’t like that this kind of disparity exists in the game, it devalues every other dungeon path (not just in CoF, but in every dungeon). Having said that, CoF p1 is a tool that can be used to solve other problems (making money, dealing with insane grind in this game). A lot of the people running CoF p1 are doing it to make money to transfer servers, buy precursors or other materials for their legendary. The problem in these situations isn’t CoF p1, it’s that content rewards are balanced around gold (buying materials off of the TP to craft legendaries or exotic weapon skins) and not around content (dungeon tokens, karma etc). The game itself isn’t rewarding, open world PvE isn’t rewarding (meta event chests are, but limited to once a day and they do nothing to solve the problem of having no reason to kill anything outside of these events) and dungeons are rewarding in a very niche way (tokens to access one set of armour and weapons and in rare cases ecto salvagable rares) with garbage chest loot (and the exotics that can come out of the chests are insanely rare and shared across the entire PvE loot table instead of being dungeon specific, account bound with reasonable drop rates). For as long as players can’t get rewards from content but rather have to farm gold for content, I’m glad something like CoF p1 exists. It’s a shame the itemisation design of the game is so poorly implemented (herding everything into RNG gambles, huge material grinds and favouring gold over content), if they ever fix that and invest item rewards into their world (and realise that content specific items are more enjoyable and rewarding than monotonous RNG grinds or gold farming) I’d be happy to see CoF p1 types of farms be nerfed. They will never go away, other dungeons will take CoF p1’s place, but they can design the things players want to buy to have less to do with gold and more to do with account bound drops from specific content. Learn from the Shadow Behemoth and Final Rest, take it a step further and make them account bound with decent drop rates, that’s how you get players to play content instead of mindless and tediously farm the same dungeon path until you hate the game.

problem is ppl always crying nerf something now its “Nerf Cof P1” and next its going to be “Nerf World Chest Spawns” Etc u cant nerf everything just because u dont like that its a great way to make money? then what nerf world Chest’s so u cant get crap for loot? or money?

@Orion It’s true that there will always be something that people flock to because it is the most efficient. However, it wouldn’t really matter so much if that something was only moderately better as opposed to the rest of the game, than extremely better like CoF seems to be.

@Shiren I couldn’t agree more about wishing there were more rewards for playing as opposed to rewards going with gold, making gold trump all else. Currently, I am not making a legendary yet- my goal at the moment is to finish a couple different builds for my character with best-in-slot gear. This means for me, the most efficient way to play is to do dailies and monthlies (get those amulets), do a daily high-level fractal, and then do a run of one of several dungeons for tokens that I can turn into rabid or soldier’s gear. It’s nice, and doesn’t revolve around gold at all- in fact the gold I do make is going towards unrelated things (bank slots and bags). I’m really going to be sad when this phase is over, and the most efficient way for me to reach my next goal is to can all the variation and just run CoF.

@Demeron I actually think the event chest buff was a step in the right direction. At the very least, it added one new activity aside from CoF that has a ridiculously profitable gold/time rate. I’d enjoy seeing dungeon chests buffed in a similar many, not to mention wvwvw loot (and I don’t even play wvwvw myself). Making more things rewarding than just CoF is defintitely a better way to go than making CoF less rewarding, but it also seems to be atypical of A-nets normal behavior (introducing diminishing returns, nerfing Orr farming, etc.)

Yes.

If only because of how stupid easy it is to ignore every mechanic in the dungeon.

Achilevel.1807:

@Orion It’s true that there will always be something that people flock to because it is the most efficient. However, it wouldn’t really matter so much if that something was only moderately better as opposed to the rest of the game, than extremely better like CoF seems to be.

@Shiren I couldn’t agree more about wishing there were more rewards for playing as opposed to rewards going with gold, making gold trump all else. Currently, I am not making a legendary yet- my goal at the moment is to finish a couple different builds for my character with best-in-slot gear. This means for me, the most efficient way to play is to do dailies and monthlies (get those amulets), do a daily high-level fractal, and then do a run of one of several dungeons for tokens that I can turn into rabid or soldier’s gear. It’s nice, and doesn’t revolve around gold at all- in fact the gold I do make is going towards unrelated things (bank slots and bags). I’m really going to be sad when this phase is over, and the most efficient way for me to reach my next goal is to can all the variation and just run CoF.

@Demeron I actually think the event chest buff was a step in the right direction. At the very least, it added one new activity aside from CoF that has a ridiculously profitable gold/time rate. I’d enjoy seeing dungeon chests buffed in a similar many, not to mention wvwvw loot (and I don’t even play wvwvw myself). Making more things rewarding than just CoF is defintitely a better way to go than making CoF less rewarding, but it also seems to be atypical of A-nets normal behavior (introducing diminishing returns, nerfing Orr farming, etc.)

I argee the world chest buff was a amazeing step forward but everything cant keep geting “nerfed” just because ppl dont like it lol if u dont like CoF dont take part in it I farm world chests on 4 80’s every day its great amount of loot and gold made daily

So what’s next? lfm berserker warrrior/memser for hotw path1? Or TA first boss? If you nerf everything, people will just be back at pent/shelter wp farming the same orr event infinity times.

The reality is people will always find the path of least resilience. The only real solution is put a DR on everything and people just outcry they can’t even play the game.

I don’t know the answer. I suppose if the smart people from Anet can’t figure it out 6 month in to the game, I have nothing to add.

The only thing I want to say is the problem largely is because in this game you farm gold. So people will always just move to the most efficient way to farm gold. And it don’t help Anet is the one promoting this because they need the enormous gold sink to keep the hardcore players and basically make more money from their gem store.

1) I’d ask who they were and what they had done to ANet.

2) I’d say leave CoF P1 as is. Why? Leave an option for dungeon farming and dungeon monthlies for people who don’t want to learn other, presumably more involved paths. That way there might be fewer requests to nerf other dungeons.

Demeron.5423:

I argee the world chest buff was a amazeing step forward but everything cant keep geting “nerfed” just because ppl dont like it lol if u dont like CoF dont take part in it I farm world chests on 4 80’s every day its great amount of loot and gold made daily

My plan is quite the opposite. I’m going around telling everyone to farm CoF because its the best way to make gold in the game. I believe this(by accelerating the problem) is the only way to force Anet’s hand into the matter.

@Demeron I really don’t think it’s as simple as ‘if you don’t want to farm, then don’t.’ Your average dedicated player values efficiency, and the mere fact that there is an ultra-efficient method gives them a difficult choice: give up on efficiency in the name of enjoyment, or give up enjoyment (assuming this person does not enjoy CoF farming) in the name of efficiency. While this trade-off will always be (and perhaps should always be) present, I feel that it is too much right now. Think about it this way- by doing things that I enjoy instead of CoF, I give up 50 units of gold-earning efficiency. A more appropriate number might be 10 units- CoF is still the most profitable by a good amount, but it doesn’t put all other activities to shame with a mile-long margin.

Also, I am of the belief (though only the devs would have the statistics to confirm or disconfirm) that CoF farming negatively affects people who don’t CoF farm by causing inflation to go faster, raising prices for everybody until the only real way to afford luxuries like precursers/fancy dyes/etc. is to run CoF- and this is indeed a popular opinion here on these forums, and on the gw2 subreddit (not to mention among people I’ve met in game).

@laokoko- that’s just it, I think what you’ve described would actually be a better state of affairs. At least in that case there are three options (Hotw, TA, orr events) instead of just one, which would be a step in the right direction. I don’t think there shouldn’t be profitable activities, I just think there should be more than one profitable activity so that players have some choice in how they want to farm their luxuries. Right now, that choice is so shallow as to be a false choice- you can farm CoF, or you can resign yourself to relative inefficiency.

Everything else in the game is unfortunately out of balance until CoF1 is fixed. Let’s not forget that CoF3 needs fixing as well, not least because the final boss is awful.

Stooperdale.3560:

Everything else in the game is unfortunately out of balance until CoF1 is fixed. Let’s not forget that CoF3 needs fixing as well, not least because the final boss is awful.

um i have cleared Cof3 Multi times…nothing wrong with it…

and about Cof1 ur always gunna have ppl happy n unhappy with crap and its lie 50/50 on this from other posts etc and Dev’s commted before working as intended… on cof1… ppl are smart n always find ways around crap to make crap easyer and thats plane down trueth ppl always do find ways around crap

They just need to reset the burning effigy boss at the end of path 1 back to it’s original state. Trust me nobody will be speed running it then lol. That boss was crazy hard when this game first came out.

Nerf warrior damage and path farming will decrease.

Zenith.7301:

Nerf warrior damage and path farming will decrease.

not rly…lol my Guardian and 1 other can dang near 2 man that hole run lol other then like where we need 5 ppl for the door to the finally boss etc

Speed run =/= 2man. You can also 2man arah and coe, even TA. You can 2man some fractals.

Efficiency is the key, and warriors easily do three times the damage of other classes. The difference in autoattacks and spike abilities between the warrior and the other classes is absurd.

It’s acceptable with the guardian because the guardian is the god of utility and control, but that isn’t the case for other classes.

Warrior damage is fine… the problem is CoF is short, bridge content can be skipped, and the boss is too weak. Make it so that an average run would take 20 minutes.

Something is terribly wrong with this game. I don’t mind so much that they change things. What bothers me is

1. Their lack of response to certain issues in the game, numerous threads that they flat out WILL NOT respond to.
2. When they change things, sometimes they don’t even tell you what they changed our how they changed it and when you ask them about it you get…….nothing. One of the most ninja, annoying, frustrating, game companies I have ever been in a gaming relationship with.

I HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME WHERE THEY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO RUIN YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE!!I that may not actually be the case but it certainly feels that way sometimes)

@Archilevel

I don’t think you get my point. You can already “almost” make the same amount of money by doing hotw speed run or TA first boss. But people dont’ do it because there is a more efficient “or” easier way to make money.

And the truth is the good people of Anet dont’ want everyone to make money by “just playing the game”. Partially because they have a gem store. And the inflation and economy will be crazy. Many of the players isn’t even actively trying to make gold. Now you are saying give the players cof comparable gold by doing anything and everything. What do you think the economy will be like?

I get what you are saying. I think you are trying to say is make more “diverse” way to make money. But I think only way that’ll happen is by using diminishing return, which many players isn’t very fund of.

Sticks.9374:

Something is terribly wrong with this game. I don’t mind so much that they change things. What bothers me is

1. Their lack of response to certain issues in the game, numerous threads that they flat out WILL NOT respond to.
2. When they change things, sometimes they don’t even tell you what they changed our how they changed it and when you ask them about it you get…….nothing. One of the most ninja, annoying, frustrating, game companies I have ever been in a gaming relationship with.

I HAVE NEVER PLAYED A GAME WHERE THEY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO RUIN YOUR GAMING EXPERIENCE!!I that may not actually be the case but it certainly feels that way sometimes)

Disagree here.
1. Not every information is suposed to be known to customers. If you are talking about why is xxx class nerfed, then you failed to look at the bigger picture.
2. Read the patch notes. everything is there. Dont be paranoid.

Keeping players happy is how they keep their company afloat. If they are bad at it, the game would have been shut down by now.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Warrior damage is fine… the problem is CoF is short, bridge content can be skipped, and the boss is too weak. Make it so that an average run would take 20 minutes.

actually many cof runs for me do infact take 20 minutes. The problem is it don’t help that the premade speed run group do it much faster.

and if you make the speed run group take 20 minutes, what do you think happen to other pug? make them take 1 hour?

laokoko.7403:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Warrior damage is fine… the problem is CoF is short, bridge content can be skipped, and the boss is too weak. Make it so that an average run would take 20 minutes.

actually many cof runs for me do infact take 20 minutes. The problem is it don’t help that the premade speed run group do it much faster.

and if you make the speed run group take 20 minutes, what do you think happen to other pug? make them take 1 hour?

Pretty much. If you make the dungeon longer because speed groups made of warriors and a mesmer are farming it too efficiently, you screw over everybody else.

Replace that group with one containing several necromancers or rangers or engineers or even elementalists, and you’ll see that the clear time easily goes up considerably.

It happens when one class hits for 3-5k normal autoattacks and hits spike skills for 12-30k on a very short cd while having heavy armor and the highest base HP to offset the disadvantages of berserker gear.

There’s a reason you don’t see berserker thieves speed runs even though thieves can get close to warriors in damage.

CoF p1 needs no nerf at all. If you want to nerf every game possible incomes first please fix the TP and make any gear/weapon account bound when bought, plus a fee in bidding orders. People can make as much money sticking and playing TP than people running cof p1 and there is no DR on TP…
In open world make one chest per account per day also.
Then you can consider ruining others game content.
When i needed gold i ran hundreds of cof p1 and it was not funny AT ALL but it was to finish legendary now I have done it I wvw I enjoy it.
If people need to grind CoF p1 it’s not for fun but they need gold because TP price is not fair so gold is needed. Fix the TP and prices and people won’t waste their time running cof p1.
And guess what I was used to run it in 7 to 10 min per run without being a Zerk warrior but pvt+divinity rune sword/shield + longbow and shout build !
Personnaly if they would nerf any more content I believe people will either avoid it or not play at all, and me first. See AC revamp success lol ! I will never put a feet in AC again and low level/new players after few tries of a dungeon tagged lvl30 !!! will think the same^^.
So if any change is done to make CoF harder longer or whatever … First noone running speed said he has fun doing it, second if the rewards were level up A LOT even if only once per day per toon like outdoor events then people wouldn’t farm it and would feel rewarded. Anyway overal problem is the cost of things and the poor income possible so dont nerf CoF p1 but please increase the loot at least that people will be less likely farming it for ages.

laokoko.7403:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Warrior damage is fine… the problem is CoF is short, bridge content can be skipped, and the boss is too weak. Make it so that an average run would take 20 minutes.

actually many cof runs for me do infact take 20 minutes. The problem is it don’t help that the premade speed run group do it much faster.

and if you make the speed run group take 20 minutes, what do you think happen to other pug? make them take 1 hour?

i said AVERAGE. That means 20 mins for everyone. You misunderstood what i said and ignored my actual points; CoF is short, bridge content can be skipped, and the boss is too weak.

YOur second paragraph is an exaggeration. A slight adjustment would at most cause pugs to take 30 mins the most. The point is to make full dps groups unviable for this dungeon run.

Btw, with a good pug(non speed run) i can do p1 in 12 mins. With a bad one i take 25 mins. Theres no other dungeon thats this easy

Ah CoF P1- The farmer’s last bastion. When they nerf this, I can only imagine the trading post frenzy.

They should not change it too dramatically. The game should have some farmable dungeons and easy dungeons as well. Otherwise we will see more and more people farming the dragon events and abusing overflow. The fact is: many people want their legendary weapon etc. and getting them requires a lot of grind. The game should offer several relatively painless choices for this grind.

After the remake AC (= the other popular dungeon) is much harder. I can imagine the frustration of new players if they have just reached level 35 and then they try AC dungeon explorable mode. Some of them might not try dungeons ever again.

Buff the end boss to how he was at release, good times.

1) Depends on activity.
2) Absolutely. It’s not even the speed vs gain that most bothers me, it’s that CoF1 is utterly mindless. Normally, the fast farming methods should also be the hardest – if you’re good enough to be able to do it, then you deserve a good reward. But when the best farming option is just throwing as much damage as you can muster directly at the foe, there’s something wrong.

Yes, I want to see the deluge of rage and buttfrustration on the dungeon forums when it happens.

Don’t fix what’s not broken, as simple as that. Arenanet should have learned that after their AC exp mistake. What’s wrong with a place where people like to farm gold?

Arenanet should have learned that after their AC exp kittenup.

This is your daily reminder that they only kittened up on two things:
1. Grast going full Leeroy and not being invulnerable throughout the encounter.
2. Doing the ghostbuster part of GE more than once.

Without these two features, AC would still remain the lucrative joke of a dungeon it always was.

Iehova.9518:

Arenanet should have learned that after their AC exp kittenup.

This is your daily reminder that they only kittened up on two things:
1. Grast going full Leeroy and not being invulnerable throughout the encounter.
2. Doing the ghostbuster part of GE more than once.

Without these two features, AC would still remain the lucrative joke of a dungeon it always was.

AC exp can no longer be done by lvl 35’s as it is supposed to be. That, is very kittene’d up

Zariuss.2357:

Iehova.9518:

Arenanet should have learned that after their AC exp kittenup.

This is your daily reminder that they only kittened up on two things:
1. Grast going full Leeroy and not being invulnerable throughout the encounter.
2. Doing the ghostbuster part of GE more than once.

Without these two features, AC would still remain the lucrative joke of a dungeon it always was.

AC exp can no longer be done by lvl 35’s as it is supposed to be. That, is very kittene’d up

Nope.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/AC-Ex-35-Run-Video-and-Impressions/first

That guy beat me to it.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Disagree here.
1. Not every information is suposed to be known to customers. If you are talking about why is xxx class nerfed, then you failed to look at the bigger picture.
2. Read the patch notes. everything is there. Dont be paranoid.

Keeping players happy is how they keep their company afloat. If they are bad at it, the game would have been shut down by now.

Really everything is there? I read patch notes all the time. I don’t remember when they ninja buffed all the Fractal mobs, pretty sure they didn’t bother telling anyone about that. There are other small things like that. Trust me, I read all the patch notes too and I am not being paranoid……..

IN regards to my first comment, I was not speaking of class balancing. I was speaking about their silence on the way guesting works right now, about people being booted to overflows because they put ninja cap on people in pve zones, about the fractal ninja bump in difficulty(which really was not in any patch notes), about the issue of world event loot, dungeon loot, fractal loot, wvw loot, and the disparity between those 4. And tons of other threads made every day that they never respond to. Granted I know they are only one company and have only so many threads they can reply to in a day but if you read the dev tracker like I do then you WILL see a pattern.

If I did not love this game immensely I would not be playing it right now. If I did not care about it I would not even be replying to this thread. I am a patient person but I don’t understand how you do not see how frustrating this can be at times either.

I say no to nerf, even though I personally don’t get how people even do this.

I run COF all the time because I’m gearing 2 characters and need the tokens. I don’t make anything of COF Path 1, I don’t know where people are getting all this money from. I had one time I found an exotic shield that sold for 6GP, otherwise it’s extremely rare for me to get anything better then a green that’s worth 2 silver.

None the less, if people can profit off it then good for them. It doesn’t hurt me or interfere with my gaming experience so have at it. ANet would be better served using their time to make other game activities more profitable to give people more options.

They omnom up, get a dosh banner, get a dosh infusion and roll in mad dosh from sanic fast CoF1.

However that is mind-numbingly boring.

Iehova.9518:

They omnom up, get a dosh banner, get a dosh infusion and roll in mad dosh from sanic fast CoF1.

However that is mind-numbingly boring.

Other then the Omnomberry part, I don’t understand a word of that. lol

I have no idea what dosh means. I was assuming they take the tokens and use them to buy rare (yellows) which they then salvage. Apparently though, they have some way of improving the drops and they’re doing it that way.

Either way, if that’s what’s fun for them then who am I to say it should be taken away? Doesn’t sound like fun to me, so I simply don’t do it. Unless it’s causing a problem that impacts the game quality for other players I’m anti-nerf.

Nerf loot in all dungeons imho, they nerfed loot in fractals and it’s the only real challenge in this game and there was no real outcry about it. I think there should be nothing but blues and greens in regular dungeon chests. They should buff chests in fractal and maybe people would go back to running them again, used to be worth running, now it’s a waste to run.
CoF is a joke, my guildy got a precursor ikittenmin speed run the other night out of there, that dungeon is a festering hole and I can’t stand it, I don’t like easy crap and it is easy, that’s why I don’t run it, I like a challenge and fractals is the only challenge here but I won’t run it for 2 hrs just to get 1 rare out of a lvl 48 run.

Not sure if trolling or serious…

Darth Llama.9217:

Iehova.9518:

They omnom up, get a dosh banner, get a dosh infusion and roll in mad dosh from sanic fast CoF1.

Other then the Omnomberry part, I don’t understand a word of that. lol

I have no idea what dosh means.

It’s slang for money. Jehova said they eat omnomberry bars (for 40% gold from monsters), use a guild banner (5% gold), get a Gilded Infusion (for the ascended amulet, 20% gold) and roll in lots of gold from running CoF1 insanely fast.

I think the existence of that path devalues gold, and likely deserves a nerf, even though I have friends who run it.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

laokoko.7403:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Warrior damage is fine… the problem is CoF is short, bridge content can be skipped, and the boss is too weak. Make it so that an average run would take 20 minutes.

actually many cof runs for me do infact take 20 minutes. The problem is it don’t help that the premade speed run group do it much faster.

and if you make the speed run group take 20 minutes, what do you think happen to other pug? make them take 1 hour?

i said AVERAGE. That means 20 mins for everyone. You misunderstood what i said and ignored my actual points; CoF is short, bridge content can be skipped, and the boss is too weak.

YOur second paragraph is an exaggeration. A slight adjustment would at most cause pugs to take 30 mins the most. The point is to make full dps groups unviable for this dungeon run.

Btw, with a good pug(non speed run) i can do p1 in 12 mins. With a bad one i take 25 mins. Theres no other dungeon thats this easy

and how do you make full dps groups unviable?

Even then, what is going to be change? 3 warior, 1 memser and a guardian anchor?

I think one of the biggest flaw in design of the dungeon is the last boss regen. So if you can’t burn the boss down fast it take very long to kill the boss. That’s what ascalate the seperation between the speed run group and normal group.

I think the reality if developer want to make cof farming “unviable”. They need to make cof take like 15 minutes for the speed run group. And those people will “probably” just move to the next easiest farming spot.

The warrior situation is also interesting. I mean people always think warrior is good at “dps”, which I’m not sure if it is even true. But the reality is warrior is very good at group buff and vulnerability on enemy. Think of this way, if a warrior can buff the group to do 5% more dmg, and debuff the boss to take 5% more damage. And if every one in the group is doing 100 damage. The warrior can do 50% more damage compare to the other class that can’t buff/debuff as good.

I think even the people who run it over and over every day realize that it is way too easy/exploitable for an explorable dungeon path and that its days are numbered.

It is true that people will always seek out the path of least resistance. However, when the path of least resistance is so mind numblingly easy and fast – yes, action needs to be taken.

At the same time, I think it is worth exploring why people run it so often and what take-aways can be incorporated into the greater game design. I think the one that really sticks out for me is “time versus reward versus fun factor” balance. If you compare CoF1 with something like SE Path 2 – the boss fights in SE Path 2 are much more complex and fun than COF 1, but fewer people (by a large factor) see the fights in SE path 2. This is because the trash in SE Path 2 makes them borderline painful to traverse. No one wants to spend 2.5 hours in a dungeon slogging through the same trash pulls over and over just to get to the more interesting boss fights.

Yes, COF needs to be changed – even the most diligent runners must see that. However, there are lessons to be learned on the design side as well – most dungeon paths (especially those with more interesting bosses) need to be shortened to varying degrees by removing the more monotonous waves of adds.

The second area is in rewards earned. On this one, I am of the school that EVERY activity in the game should offer similar rewards with unique activities (such as dungeons) offering unique rewards. In other words, ideally, 1 hour in a dungeon should offer the same gold reward as 1 hour doing dynamic events – only with dungeons offering unique tokens/lodestones and DEs offering karma. I know this is hard to accomplish, but it would make every aspect of the game more enticing and lessen the impact of something like COF path 1 on the economy.

For the record, I think this same system could be extended to every aspect of the game – including things like Keg Brawl (adding monetary rewards for participation and unique gear – possibly town clothes in the form of football uniforms). That way, it doesnt matter what you are doing in game – you still earn on par with everyone else but there are still unique incentives to do more unique activities like dungeons.

Bosses need defenses and not just stand there like idiots.

Wethospu.6437:

Bosses need defenses and not just stand there like idiots.

I dunno, Lupus and Alpha just stand there like idiots for the whole duration of my sword waving in their general direction.

CoF needs to be reworked. Its too easy to farm.

Iehova.9518:

Wethospu.6437:

Bosses need defenses and not just stand there like idiots.

I dunno, Lupus and Alpha just stand there like idiots for the whole duration of my sword waving in their general direction.

If you can do it without dodging, then good job.

Hobocop.1508:

Zariuss.2357:

Iehova.9518:

Arenanet should have learned that after their AC exp kittenup.

This is your daily reminder that they only kittened up on two things:
1. Grast going full Leeroy and not being invulnerable throughout the encounter.
2. Doing the ghostbuster part of GE more than once.

Without these two features, AC would still remain the lucrative joke of a dungeon it always was.

AC exp can no longer be done by lvl 35’s as it is supposed to be. That, is very kittene’d up

Nope.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/AC-Ex-35-Run-Video-and-Impressions/first

Ok let me rephrase that, 95% of pugs of lvl 35 with blue/green gear can’t do AC exp

I think more than anything, the problem with CoF right now is that it’s pretty much printing money. This is a big problem because it causes severe inflation. More than anything else, I think more item rewards (material, equipment, etc) should be introduced instead of more currency.

Additionally, as far as the current level of reward for CoF, I have no problem with it as long it’s indicative of the amount of effort overall. CoF can retain its level of reward if harder dungeons give better rewards (for instance, right now arah doesn’t drop any cores/lodestones afaik, but worthless essences instead). It’s all relative in the end for effort/reward payoff.