Guild Wars 2

Marthkus.4615:

Exos.3472:

So yeah. Necros shouldn’t be allowed in content were they can screw us up.

Your party wiped on lupi and the necro finished it off for you thus screwing up the run?

Why don’t rest of you be less bad? With the necro there you steal health on hit and don’t bleed out. You get 150-450 bonus healing power which should go a long way on all your zerk builds. For content that you could solo, that is a huge buff.

And you say all this while bringing a thief who only brings stealth for runs. A job better done by a mesmer. At least necros can stack vulnerability.

This is an interesting point.

Which is worse ? A high-risk, high-return dps class that cannot stand his ground but still manages to put a dent on the ennemy. Or a safe, three wheeled survivable class that stays along dealing laughable amount of damage ?

While you may think the first one is bad, the latter is selfish and asking to be carried with no intention towards progress. The necro was not better than us, he just had more health to soak the attacks.

So yes, the necro screwed up badly by wasting everyone’s time. If we had all wiped, wp then engaged Lupi we would have finished him in the same amount of time, or even less. The only reason we wiped was because he claimed his wells could block projectiles (a stupid thing i know, but people running arah are scarce and we had already 4 manned the dungeon till lupi… and we were curious).

The only valuable thing he may bring is the protection from wells and the vampiric aura. Neither are actually noticible since a guardian will offer same the same and more diversed buffs while retaining better dps. Vulnerability ? In a group of eles and a warrior this is not needed. You have missed my point. In the current setting dps was not the issue, but the defensive support. And necro having nothing consistent just killed the eles.

And if i’m not mistaken, a mesmer run requires him to stealth through the content solo and then use a portal for his party. I cannot expect such things in a pug environement, wich is relevant to the problem at hand (you should not be kicked from a guild party, else you should strongly consider another one).

Exos.3472:

Marthkus.4615:

Exos.3472:

So yeah. Necros shouldn’t be allowed in content were they can screw us up.

Your party wiped on lupi and the necro finished it off for you thus screwing up the run?

Why don’t rest of you be less bad? With the necro there you steal health on hit and don’t bleed out. You get 150-450 bonus healing power which should go a long way on all your zerk builds. For content that you could solo, that is a huge buff.

And you say all this while bringing a thief who only brings stealth for runs. A job better done by a mesmer. At least necros can stack vulnerability.

This is an interesting point.

Which is worse ? A high-risk, high-return dps class that cannot stand his ground but still manages to put a dent on the ennemy. Or a safe, three wheeled survivable class that stays along dealing laughable amount of damage ?

While you may think the first one is bad, the latter is selfish and asking to be carried with no intention towards progress. The necro was not better than us, he just had more health to soak the attacks.

So yes, the necro screwed up badly by wasting everyone’s time. If we had all wiped, wp then engaged Lupi we would have finished him in the same amount of time, or even less. The only reason we wiped was because he claimed his wells could block projectiles (a stupid thing i know, but people running arah are scarce and we had already 4 manned the dungeon till lupi… and we were curious).

The only valuable thing he may bring is the protection from wells and the vampiric aura. Neither are actually noticible since a guardian will offer same the same and more diversed buffs while retaining better dps. Vulnerability ? In a group of eles and a warrior this is not needed. You have missed my point. In the current setting dps was not the issue, but the defensive support. And necro having nothing consistent just killed the eles.

And if i’m not mistaken, a mesmer run requires him to stealth through the content solo and then use a portal for his party. I cannot expect such things in a pug environement, wich is relevant to the problem at hand (you should not be kicked from a guild party, else you should strongly consider another one).

Can necros out deeps a thief? No. But they can still do plenty of dps (since patch).

When it comes to party utility the thief brings nothing unique. The guard can blind/block. The mesmer can stealth/portal/reflect/blind/ect. Even the necromancer can have his dark fields combo’d on to blind. (mesmer mass stealth is pretty strong right now)

Selfish classes? I hand that title out to thieves, even rangers bring more unique buffs.

EDIT: Well thieves can bring spammable blast finishers. That counts for something I guess.

Stealth, easy defiance management, vertical mobility, insane on land mobility, stuff like that.

In a pinch they also do projectile control as well. Though other classes are better suited to put up with that.

I run a 0 trait 0dps lvl40 white quality honed gear set thief http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i/c/6705679

AMA.

I don’t like to kick. To me, there are 5 people in that instance. If your party wiped, every one of those people should ask themselves “what can I do to fix this”. My opinion is that dungeons are so easy, I should be able to carry any group through. Fractals are another story, I’m not good at them yet, and I need to be carried a bit. But if I think a fractal group is garbage, I prefer to leave the group. I don’t want to place blame on someone other than myself. To me, picking out a single person on your team, and kicking them is like saying “I need someone better than you to carry me”. I don’t agree with it, to me that’s not what a team is.

Got a question for everyone. For a player that needs tokens for a legendary what does one have to do to get a gorup if the LFG tool doesnt work? there really isnt a point to buying full zerker gear just for a few runs especially if that player isnt used to using zerker.

Silvercyclone.1462:

Got a question for everyone. For a player that needs tokens for a legendary what does one have to do to get a gorup if the LFG tool doesnt work? there really isnt a point to buying full zerker gear just for a few runs especially if that player isnt used to using zerker.

If the LFG tool went down then people will just use Map Chat like before it was implemented. You can also join a guild that doesn’t mind what gear you have.

Regardless, you’re eventually going to have to play in a group to get those tokens (unless you can solo dungeons or outright buy the legendary)

There are some interesting perspectives going on in this thread. I have level 80 of each profession at 70+ AR and take each of them through FotM 50 with zero trouble at all. My necro runs full sinister. My guardian and warrior run a hybrid of PPF and PTV. My ele is celestial, with some PPF accessories. Some of my others are full zerk and others run hybrid (power mains).

I’ve been in groups with 2 Necros, 1 Ranger, 1 Mesmer, and 1 Engineer. I have no idea what their gear was. Guess what? We sailed through.

I’ve been in full zerk groups that were a moving massacre – their own massacre – because the group skill was so poor and it appeared that no one thought to switch weapon sets or utility skills based on scenario.

The game is of a smarter design than we might give credit. You can run the build/gear du jour but if you can’t execute on tactics real time, you’ll melt in high level content.

To those who get kicked for joining an LFG that requires zerk and you don’t bring zerk – you get what you sign up for, sadly. I don’t care for those groups myself because the whining over executing every single action perfectly is just untenable. Some of the players gripe because we spent an extra minute(!) killing Mossman on land instead of under sea. I have no interest making time for perfectionist brats who feel I deserve to listen to how the world isn’t living up to their standards. Reality: no one cares and we don’t owe you anything. One group leader voted to kick my Mesmer out in FotM 50 after we melted bloomhunger in near record time because the helmet I had on was Zealot. I said – dude, we just melted bloomhunger, what more do you want? No one else seconded the vote kick.

I post my LFGs with “50 – swamp open” and live with what I get. Most of the time it is a great time.

My point here is there are plenty of viable and very successful group compositions to run through challenging content than just full zerker.

@Silvercyclone
If you plan on doing more dungeons, getting zerker gear is strongly recommended. If you play a squishy and have trouble surviving, mix in some PTV and slowly change it up for zerker as you get more experience.
If you ONLY want those 500 tokens and then never ever touch dungeons again, you might want to buy those paths. For dungeons that are not being sold frequently on the lfg, you may want to look up someone (or a guild) that does dungeon selling and make a deal with them.
Anyway, zerker is currently the best thing for PvE for obvious reasons. Really. Getting it on at least one char is worth it no matter how casually you play. The time savings pay off.

Meili Ying.3820:

Silvercyclone.1462:

Got a question for everyone. For a player that needs tokens for a legendary what does one have to do to get a gorup if the LFG tool doesnt work? there really isnt a point to buying full zerker gear just for a few runs especially if that player isnt used to using zerker.

If the LFG tool went down then people will just use Map Chat like before it was implemented. You can also join a guild that doesn’t mind what gear you have.

Regardless, you’re eventually going to have to play in a group to get those tokens (unless you can solo dungeons or outright buy the legendary)

By LFG tool not working i mean I try to make a group but nobody joins for 1+ hours. Also im pretty sure guilds frown upon members joining long enough to get tokens then dropping them.

Gear and traits have already been proved irrelevant to an extent. What I mean to say is that there have been numberous groups that have gone into ‘difficult’ fights wearing no gear whatsoever (except a basic weapon for 1-5 skills) and taking no traits (back before the 6/23 patch) for the lolz.

Did the fight take a long time to clear it? Absolutely. Was the team struggling to complete the fight? Not at all.

So really most teams that are demanding metazerk are disillusioned into believing the gear will do all the work for them. At the end of the day what defines encounters being difficult or easy are they players. Are they familiar with the content? Are they bringing the right class or right utility? Etc.

Knowledge > Gear

Granted, if you’re after Personal Best’s or record times, certain gear is definitely going to be required.

Silvercyclone.1462:

Meili Ying.3820:

Silvercyclone.1462:

Got a question for everyone. For a player that needs tokens for a legendary what does one have to do to get a gorup if the LFG tool doesnt work? there really isnt a point to buying full zerker gear just for a few runs especially if that player isnt used to using zerker.

If the LFG tool went down then people will just use Map Chat like before it was implemented. You can also join a guild that doesn’t mind what gear you have.

Regardless, you’re eventually going to have to play in a group to get those tokens (unless you can solo dungeons or outright buy the legendary)

By LFG tool not working i mean I try to make a group but nobody joins for 1+ hours. Also im pretty sure guilds frown upon members joining long enough to get tokens then dropping them.

Despite whether or not someone joins a dungeon-based guild or doesn’t join a guild at all, finding a community of some sort (even just having a friends list of regulars) increases the chances of being able to find a group to play with for a dungeon; consequentially, the chances of being able to have an enjoyable experience in a dungeon to get tokens increases if said community shares similar interests to your own, zerker or not.

It’s basically what’s been being said for a while now. Just find some players that share your interests to help you achieve what you want, and maybe help them later on as a result. Is it easy? Depends on what those interests are, and how well those players communicate with each other. Is it possible? Absolutely. So unless dungeon tokens become available through solo content (which already exists if a player is skilled enough), you’ll have to find some kind of group to help gather them.

savacli.8172:

Gear and traits have already been proved irrelevant to an extent. What I mean to say is that there have been numberous groups that have gone into ‘difficult’ fights wearing no gear whatsoever (except a basic weapon for 1-5 skills) and taking no traits (back before the 6/23 patch) for the lolz.

Did the fight take a long time to clear it? Absolutely. Was the team struggling to complete the fight? Not at all.

So really most teams that are demanding metazerk are disillusioned into believing the gear will do all the work for them. At the end of the day what defines encounters being difficult or easy are they players. Are they familiar with the content? Are they bringing the right class or right utility? Etc.

Knowledge > Gear

Granted, if you’re after Personal Best’s or record times, certain gear is definitely going to be required.

Sorry but “irrelevant” is the wrong word, what you mean is “not necessary”. If you take a group of average players the chance for succesfully completing an encounter (wipefree) is higher with gear, it’s just not 0 without gear. Even if you take a group of experienced players, without gear the chance of faillure will still be higher than the one with gear. So relevance: yes (otherwise the chances would be the same), necessray: no (possible without)

The thing is, most experienced dungeon runners never said that you have to have zerk gear/traits to complete a dungeon. They just ask that if you do not have it, to please not run with them.

The problem is both sides often ignore the wishes of the the other side. I’ve had experience with good and bad zerkers and good and bad non-zerkers. I’ve seen entitlement on both sides, often from people who cant adapt to a slight change in tactics (how i hate it when people just start running in ascalon/dredge when I’m on my thief. Dont even have time to write anything like “let’s stealth past, here’s how it’s done: …”). But the worst are the people not fulfilling even a basic requirement. My normal fractal lfg posting is: “xx | bring yy ar, brains and brawn | swamp up” where xx is 20/30/40 and yy the ar needed for 1% ticks (for 50 i use something else). Now the brains and brawn part is just a little fun, but i actually expect people to think a little for themselves and be able to follow some tips in chat (basic things, like “please dont use your hammer kb/stuns, we want to deepfreeze the mob” or “hey <name of guard> could you bring your wall of reflection for this fight, it would help a lot”). Mostly these tipps are ignored and we keep on strugling. And of course there also are those who dont have the ar and you only notice that in the boss fractal (mostly because i dont focus on how other people die) and you have to rez 3 instadead people at the beginning of mai trin … .

But this is the same thing repeated in every thread about the meta: You dont have to follow it. You can succeed without it. Just leave us our groups and make your own. (We’ll try to do the same.)

Fluffy Ferocious.9807:

I’ve been in full zerk groups that were a moving massacre – their own massacre – because the group skill was so poor and it appeared that no one thought to switch weapon sets or utility skills based on scenario.

The game is of a smarter design than we might give credit. You can run the build/gear du jour but if you can’t execute on tactics real time, you’ll melt in high level content.

And that’s the exact point, yes. Berserker gear is better, it always is dps wise, but only if you’re an at least decent player and have the proper group utility/buffs to sustain it. Yeah, support-control, would you look at that! You don’t need to be in clerics to support your team…

How come phiws themselves are the ones convinced that it’s enough to equip zerk, stack in a corner and spam 1 to succeed, when it’s not the case at all (well, perhaps in cof p1)? How come they feel so special when their snowflake nomad build doesn’t die as quickly?
The answer to this meta diatribe is just there, under everyone’s eyes!
Risk vs reward. That’s all. You’re gonna be faster, but you have to be able to play in it.
I personally can’t fathom why some people fail to understand this. It’s such a simple concept.
…and it’s definitely not an “I win” button -.-
…and you’re not forced to do it! So many people playing victim, it’s insane. Nobody, nobody can log into your account and force you to wear berserker gear, kittenmit.

We need harder content so that 1. snowflakes may finally understand that the good players currently running zergburger will adapt with no need to run overly defensive gear and 2. excessively tanky or healy or whatevery builds are trash, a burden to the party – which will melt and crash if one player doesn’t pull its weight (presuming the mentioned “hard content” is well-tuned).

Certain builds are optimal, others are just viable. Not sure why people are up in arms about it; I think it’s working fine?
We simply need more content that requires a lil more support in the form of creative and proactive damage mitigation/control, not stupid healing, and may the trinity whiners sink in the deepest stomach of a godkitten Leviathan.

Genlog.4983:

i find the stack system to buff every1 just plain stupid
all stand here and stack -.- its not how i play am a free roamer i need to move around

my bear hold Argo and am circle around the enemy and dodge his attacks and so on
sometimes when am in the game i do miss the old trinity system

i mostly play full healer and i was free to walk around and heal my party
as long the tanker hold the boss

mabye a idee to make some pets super tank pets that hold the argo for the party
so what i read is that both ranger and necro problem is there pets and minions

most other players don’t like them i have a pet but i must but him on guard -.-
and for rangers there pet is there life saver

and i think Anet need to rework on them make them more useful in dungeons
so that my pet get the credit and not the hate

that’s what i think atm

When you say stacking are you talking about everybody without 300 range or corner stacking one on top of the other? Because the latter is just a bad strategy that pugs continue to use, but in reality there is like 5-10 spot in dungeon/fractal where this is the best thing to do. But pugs continue to use it because they don’t know better.

If it’s the first one. I don’t know what to tell you. You need to stay close to your ally to support each other and fight with a melee weapon.

Thaddeus.4891:

But pugs continue to use it because they don’t know better.

Or because its easier for a PUG. Most PUGs know what stacking in a corner means. No knockbacks, fears, everbody stays close to each other, etc. In open fights some guys start to use their knockbacks, move around and out of reach, …
Stacking in a corner is a bit like “stay there and don’t move. DON’T MOVE, YOU #*%§$#”.
Not optimal, but easier to “explain”.

Dunno what pugs you run with, but I’m having much better experience with them these days. Even though a lot of them is still used to the common stacking spots, they’re able to adapt pretty quickly and when they see me (or anyone) getting ready for the fight at the boss’ spawn spot, they join us and fight normally. And after a few fights they figure it out and head for these spots automatically.
At least that’s my impression. Most people are still lazy, so they often don’t bother using potions or prestacking might, but generally pugs (talking exp zerk parties) seem to have the basic understanding of the game mechanics and are able to adapt to a number of commonly seen strategies without major failures.

I only kick people who start afking at middle of the dungeon while having the NPC aggro.

Neko.9021:

This is something that’s baffled me for a while. I’ve been playing GW2 since launch, and played in PUGs with all 8 of the classes. And not once in those years have I ever been kicked for playing a Necromancer or Ranger or whatever. I’ve never been kicked for wearing the wrong type of gear (mainly because people cannot check my gear anyway, and it’s easy to lie if I wanted to).

One rule I do have is to follow the requirements of the LFG. If the group only asks for a certain comp or gear or builds and I don’t want to follow the requirements of that LFG, I simply don’t join that group. And there is always another group ready to play that doesn’t have those requirements.

I play on NA, and these days, I’m fortunate enough that I have friends to do dungeons with. But on those random times I want to run something in a PUG and just feel like playing Necro, I’ve yet to ever get kicked for playing it. Or any other unpopular class.

I guess I just want to know other people’s experiences, mainly because it differs so radically from my own. I see these posts from players crying about how they can’t play what they want. However, I’ve seen plenty of players playing in what’s clearly a non-DPS setup (a Staff Camping Guard, a Bearbow Ranger, etc.), and not get kicked. Admittedly, my experience from launch to now is only one perspective and hardly indicative of the entire gaming population’s experience, which is why I turn to the forums and ask you all, have you or someone you known, experienced getting kicked from dungeons due to your build?

I have kicked people out of fractal groups when they didnt have enough AR and provided next to zero contribution on boss fights, often negative contribution as the rest of us spent our effort on trying to rezz them instead of the fight.

I have never kicked anyone for running a certain build gear though, unless its somethign obvious, like a guard or war not using stab when running through CC etc. I suppose in cases like this you could argue that all they had to do is switch 1 or 2 utility skills and they are unwilling to do so and this causes an overall problem for the rest of the group so this may be considered part of their build.

But even then, I politely ask them to use their skills and try to help out if it is a new or unexperienced player 1st. If they refuse ….. well then kicking and replacement is fair game.

DonQuack.9025:

In my experience pugging. People dont really get kicked for their builds or for being necro/ranger/w.e. They get kicked for being bad.

Not inexperienced but BAD as in you are told what to do and that advice is ignored.
Bad as in you aggro mobs before group is ready repeatedly
They get kicked when they run what they “want to” run instead of things that benefit the group. Ive seen many a mesmer/guard get kicked for not slotting reflects and watching teammates die. I suppose thats builds.

As for the special “healers” Ive yet to see one that can actually heal. They usually blast water fields when no one needs the heals and rage at the ele’s because they instadown from pretty much anything and they cant heal through it.

Actually no Ive een good healers.

in wildstar. :/

Yeah there are ppl who dont listen to advices, but there are new players who want to learn, but how, if everyone is only looking for full geared ppl. how can we? I mean everyone was a beginner once.

SkullProX.7083:

DonQuack.9025:

In my experience pugging. People dont really get kicked for their builds or for being necro/ranger/w.e. They get kicked for being bad.

Not inexperienced but BAD as in you are told what to do and that advice is ignored.
Bad as in you aggro mobs before group is ready repeatedly
They get kicked when they run what they “want to” run instead of things that benefit the group. Ive seen many a mesmer/guard get kicked for not slotting reflects and watching teammates die. I suppose thats builds.

As for the special “healers” Ive yet to see one that can actually heal. They usually blast water fields when no one needs the heals and rage at the ele’s because they instadown from pretty much anything and they cant heal through it.

Actually no Ive een good healers.

in wildstar. :/

Yeah there are ppl who dont listen to advices, but there are new players who want to learn, but how, if everyone is only looking for full geared ppl. how can we? I mean everyone was a beginner once.

By starting their own LFG or joining LFG’s that reference they are new. There are people who do dungeon runs willing to teach them.

And if by chance all are new, then they get to learn the way the vets of the game learned: by playing the dungeon and trial and error. Back when the game came out, there weren’t dungeon guides on how to defeat Lupi or Subject Alpha.

Seera.5916:

SkullProX.7083:

DonQuack.9025:

In my experience pugging. People dont really get kicked for their builds or for being necro/ranger/w.e. They get kicked for being bad.

Not inexperienced but BAD as in you are told what to do and that advice is ignored.
Bad as in you aggro mobs before group is ready repeatedly
They get kicked when they run what they “want to” run instead of things that benefit the group. Ive seen many a mesmer/guard get kicked for not slotting reflects and watching teammates die. I suppose thats builds.

As for the special “healers” Ive yet to see one that can actually heal. They usually blast water fields when no one needs the heals and rage at the ele’s because they instadown from pretty much anything and they cant heal through it.

Actually no Ive een good healers.

in wildstar. :/

Yeah there are ppl who dont listen to advices, but there are new players who want to learn, but how, if everyone is only looking for full geared ppl. how can we? I mean everyone was a beginner once.

By starting their own LFG or joining LFG’s that reference they are new. There are people who do dungeon runs willing to teach them.

And if by chance all are new, then they get to learn the way the vets of the game learned: by playing the dungeon and trial and error. Back when the game came out, there weren’t dungeon guides on how to defeat Lupi or Subject Alpha.

These groups that learn the path with trial and error are so rare. Even when they start all nice and happy, chatting with each other, most of the times they leave party/log out after the first wipe.

In my old guild I knew a family group that learned dungeons together. None of them had looked up guides and none of them had been through that dungeon before. They did them at-level as they unlocked them. It took them a while to get through each one, but they managed to complete it. They were new players, but they took the time to think about what was happening, and they’d look over their skills. I’ve had people tell me “Oh, I didn’t realize that x skill does y” when that information was clearly on their tool-tip. -.-

Honestly, I rarely kick. If someone is causing a major issue in a dungeon (ie- attitude, trolling, or just so awful at the game I’m not sure how they can do more than drool into their keyboard), then I’ll kick them. Otherwise, I’d rather just carry on.

Thaddeus.4891:

Genlog.4983:

i find the stack system to buff every1 just plain stupid
all stand here and stack -.- its not how i play am a free roamer i need to move around

my bear hold Argo and am circle around the enemy and dodge his attacks and so on
sometimes when am in the game i do miss the old trinity system

i mostly play full healer and i was free to walk around and heal my party
as long the tanker hold the boss

mabye a idee to make some pets super tank pets that hold the argo for the party
so what i read is that both ranger and necro problem is there pets and minions

most other players don’t like them i have a pet but i must but him on guard -.-
and for rangers there pet is there life saver

and i think Anet need to rework on them make them more useful in dungeons
so that my pet get the credit and not the hate

that’s what i think atm

When you say stacking are you talking about everybody without 300 range or corner stacking one on top of the other? Because the latter is just a bad strategy that pugs continue to use, but in reality there is like 5-10 spot in dungeon/fractal where this is the best thing to do. But pugs continue to use it because they don’t know better.

If it’s the first one. I don’t know what to tell you. You need to stay close to your ally to support each other and fight with a melee weapon.

and that is the problem off this system you need to stay close to help ea other out the buffs and skill don’t have a long range like many other mmorpg have

so you cant not really run free around because your buff skills don’t reach that far sadly

doddbox.8153:

…I’ve also had mesmers that insisted they were faster than Guardians but refused to use portals, ever…

I’ve never understood the obsession non-mesmers have for portal in pve. Literally, the only real useful application of portal in dungeons/fractals…that hasn’t been patched out…is for covering for others failures. That’s usually on swamp…where a competent team can just do the same thing they do when there is no mesmer…and just run the correct path. I guess its useful on the harpy fractal, to compensate for someone who fails at platform jumping. I personally think that it is a waste of a utility slot, if it is purely to cover for fails. It certainly doesn’t make a player “faster” to use a portal…as the portal mechanic requires you to have already been to the location for it to teleport you back to that location.

Edit: forgot the one fractal where it actually is useful…the heat room in the reactor fractal.

Did a fractal just now, lv50 with a guardian who came in using a staff. I tell him to switch out of that crap.

Promptly ignored the whole run, spends the whole run autoattacking with his guardian’s staff.

Guess who the game chose to give an ascended chest to while everybody else got nothing/rings?

That’s why I hate their lying devs and the bait and switch they did from dungeons, retiring the token system and putting RNG in its place.

ODB.6891:

doddbox.8153:

…I’ve also had mesmers that insisted they were faster than Guardians but refused to use portals, ever…

I’ve never understood the obsession non-mesmers have for portal in pve. Literally, the only real useful application of portal in dungeons/fractals…that hasn’t been patched out…is for covering for others failures. That’s usually on swamp…where a competent team can just do the same thing they do when there is no mesmer…and just run the correct path. I guess its useful on the harpy fractal, to compensate for someone who fails at platform jumping. I personally think that it is a waste of a utility slot, if it is purely to cover for fails. It certainly doesn’t make a player “faster” to use a portal…as the portal mechanic requires you to have already been to the location for it to teleport you back to that location.

Edit: forgot the one fractal where it actually is useful…the heat room in the reactor fractal.

Portals are also useful in Cliffside when you’re going up against the arms to get from one arm to another quickly.

thrag.9740:

I don’t like to kick. To me, there are 5 people in that instance. If your party wiped, every one of those people should ask themselves “what can I do to fix this”. My opinion is that dungeons are so easy, I should be able to carry any group through. Fractals are another story, I’m not good at them yet, and I need to be carried a bit. But if I think a fractal group is garbage, I prefer to leave the group. I don’t want to place blame on someone other than myself. To me, picking out a single person on your team, and kicking them is like saying “I need someone better than you to carry me”. I don’t agree with it, to me that’s not what a team is.

I also prefer to leave than kick. Less conflict involved. I admit, I currently do not join a group if there is a ranger or necro in it. If I see a ranger or necro join the group….I almost always drop group without a word and look for an appropriate group. If I’m in a fractal group and someone tries to pull a bait and switch…and switch to a ranger/necro…that is a situation where I will likely initiate a kick…especially if I watch the ranger and I see that bear pop out in combat. I’ll also drop group when I see group damage so low that it is taking 2-3 times the normal time to kill things…that bodes ill for the rest of the run…usually means 1 or more nomads in tow. I also bail when I see a mes camping GS or a guard camping staff. Camping range is just so bad in most fractals. The only exceptions are when its a fractal group under level 10 where I can pretty much solo it…no matter what the rest of the group does.

Seera.5916:

ODB.6891:

doddbox.8153:

…I’ve also had mesmers that insisted they were faster than Guardians but refused to use portals, ever…

I’ve never understood the obsession non-mesmers have for portal in pve. Literally, the only real useful application of portal in dungeons/fractals…that hasn’t been patched out…is for covering for others failures. That’s usually on swamp…where a competent team can just do the same thing they do when there is no mesmer…and just run the correct path. I guess its useful on the harpy fractal, to compensate for someone who fails at platform jumping. I personally think that it is a waste of a utility slot, if it is purely to cover for fails. It certainly doesn’t make a player “faster” to use a portal…as the portal mechanic requires you to have already been to the location for it to teleport you back to that location.

Edit: forgot the one fractal where it actually is useful…the heat room in the reactor fractal.

Portals are also useful in Cliffside when you’re going up against the arms to get from one arm to another quickly.

That’s true…more of a convenience factor though.

Portal is useful in cliffside for arms, in aetherblade to port people up to the machines to turn off the lasers, it’s useful in harpy but you lose your chance at powerful bloods by skipping them, and it’s also useful in snowblind fractal.

With that said it’s more for speed clear records.

As much as I hate to say it, outside Time Warp a guardian fills a mesmer’s spot much better for the average fractal group.

And rangers are pretty terrible for fractals, moreso than power necros because rangers have absolutely horrendous aoe whereas at least a necromancer with well of suffering is gonna be useful on volcanic fractal or anywhere where AoE is necessary.

Ranger is just bad anywhere where he can’t safely camp 1h autoattack on a boss with his jaguar without danger of getting downed immediately. And anywhere that requires AoE since ranger cleave/aoe is virtually nonexistent.

Genlog.4983:

and that is the problem off this system you need to stay close to help ea other out the buffs and skill don’t have a long range like many other mmorpg have

so you cant not really run free around because your buff skills don’t reach that far sadly

That’s not a problem. That’s just a system that you don’t like. Plenty of people like it. I included. There is a bunch of stuff that the game could improve, that’s not one of them

Thaddeus.4891:

Genlog.4983:

and that is the problem off this system you need to stay close to help ea other out the buffs and skill don’t have a long range like many other mmorpg have

so you cant not really run free around because your buff skills don’t reach that far sadly

That’s not a problem. That’s just a system that you don’t like. Plenty of people like it. I included. There is a bunch of stuff that the game could improve, that’s not one of them

I don’t think it’s good design, as player who has preferred melee in every MMO to date.

Boon sharing and combos should not exclude ranged playstyles for those who prefer them.

Melee already has built in cleave and higher base numbers as an advantage over range to reward its risk ratio, it doesn’t need to monopolize might stacking and fury stacking either.

Yes, range at 1500 where almost nothing can hit you and you can’t ress your melee teammates if they down… then get all the might, all the fury, all the buffs.

ODB.6891:

thrag.9740:

I don’t like to kick. To me, there are 5 people in that instance. If your party wiped, every one of those people should ask themselves “what can I do to fix this”. My opinion is that dungeons are so easy, I should be able to carry any group through. Fractals are another story, I’m not good at them yet, and I need to be carried a bit. But if I think a fractal group is garbage, I prefer to leave the group. I don’t want to place blame on someone other than myself. To me, picking out a single person on your team, and kicking them is like saying “I need someone better than you to carry me”. I don’t agree with it, to me that’s not what a team is.

I also prefer to leave than kick. Less conflict involved. I admit, I currently do not join a group if there is a ranger or necro in it. If I see a ranger or necro join the group….I almost always drop group without a word and look for an appropriate group. If I’m in a fractal group and someone tries to pull a bait and switch…and switch to a ranger/necro…that is a situation where I will likely initiate a kick…especially if I watch the ranger and I see that bear pop out in combat. I’ll also drop group when I see group damage so low that it is taking 2-3 times the normal time to kill things…that bodes ill for the rest of the run…usually means 1 or more nomads in tow. I also bail when I see a mes camping GS or a guard camping staff. Camping range is just so bad in most fractals. The only exceptions are when its a fractal group under level 10 where I can pretty much solo it…no matter what the rest of the group does.

I will take a good necro or ranger over a bad any other class any day. That being said, I tend to watch rangers in my groups more closely because for SOME reason a lot of them I find are “omg this fern hound is so prettttyyyyy” kind of players.

As far as guards camping staff… I just don’t get it. It confuses me, tbh. The only times I use my staff in dungeons is TA (blossom clearing), or if I’m in a group that decides that might stacking is useless and I want to empower at the start of a fight. I didn’t even bother getting a good staff until recently because I simply don’t use it in combat unless it’s an open-world farming situation.

I was in an AC run once with a ranger who wanted to LB burrows while standing on top of them, an SB ranger, and a mesmer who autoattacked with GS (again, while on top of the burrow). Yup, super fun. -.-

deSade.9437:

Yes, range at 1500 where almost nothing can hit you and you can’t ress your melee teammates if they down… then get all the might, all the fury, all the buffs.

I don’t understand what kind of argument you’re aiming to make. By the same token some kitten y warrior will be too busy mashing his face on 100b to rez his fallen teammate. It’s a really bad rationale for not revamping the boon and combo field systems.

I mean, you can’t seriously think it’s fine as is.

Ethereal fields are useless. Whirling/projectile finishers are worthless. Ice fields are useless. Fire aura is useless. Frost aura is of limited use. Leap finishers for the most part are useless unless on a water field.

There’s so much that can be done to improve the current features of combat.

Make boons have crazy range=/=revamp auras and combo effects. Where u at?
Eles use staff and isn’t strictly in melee range, just in proximity to give everyone boons – no, 240+ isn’t melee range. Where u at?

lets say it different my English is not that great but i try my best

problem what i see is stacking all together that there can be a mistake in your team
with that all can die in just 1 blow

that’s why i play more in the back row if something go wrong i can mabye get them up again its a 50% change but its worth the shot ??

also am a ranger and always have 1 tank pet with me i can send him to to get them up fast or use his taunt skill if it works on bosses ?? never try it but ok if i can get my tank pet to argo the boss i can get my team up

i wanna play it on the save side then try all stand together and hoping we kill the mops or boss or they kill us all -.-

so for me i think for a party 3 close range and 2 long range for back up ??
and if those spirit mops i can use have a very long range i can help my party to with buffs and keep my spirits save

Best thing I’ve seen in a while 7/10

Genlog.4983:

lets say it different my English is not that great but i try my best

problem what i see is stacking all together that there can be a mistake in your team
with that all can die in just 1 blow

that’s why i play more in the back row if something go wrong i can mabye get them up again its a 50% change but its worth the shot ??

also am a ranger and always have 1 tank pet with me i can send him to to get them up fast or use his taunt skill if it works on bosses ?? never try it but ok if i can get my tank pet to argo the boss i can get my team up

i wanna play it on the save side then try all stand together and hoping we kill the mops or boss or they kill us all -.-

so for me i think for a party 3 close range and 2 long range for back up ??
and if those spirit mops i can use have a very long range i can help my party to with buffs and keep my spirits save

This thread has gotten way off topic. But since we are already down this rabbit hole we might as well see where it goes.

I have been running dungeons for almost three years. When I was first learning them at the start it was kinda rough. But I have never, in all the time I have been playing see an entire team “die in just 1 blow”. Sometimes one player or anther will. But I will repeat, I have never seen an entire team go down to one hit. Maybe I am just lucky, or I have a pretty great team of friends to call upon, but still, never seen this happen, Even during Alpha fights, or Lupi fights, or Mai Trin, I never seen an entire party go down to one attack.

You realize that the reason rangers had such a hard time getting into groups for the longest time was because they were using Tank pets, and camping range. This is where the joke about Bearbows come from. It has taken rangers along time to overcome that stereo type.

Odds are using taunt is going to do one of two things, Nothing, due to defiance, or your going to reset the defiance stack preventing another Deep Freeze or a similar useful CC skill.

In your example if someone goes down, you have a much better chance of rezing them if you are in melee range beside them, and not running out of range to get to them.

As for you not getting boons, if you don’t want to stand near the boon givers that is the price you pay for camping range. I am sure there are plenty of groups that don’t mind what skills you use or how far back you stand. You just need to find one of those.

Zenith.7301:

Did a fractal just now, lv50 with a guardian who came in using a staff. I tell him to switch out of that crap.

Promptly ignored the whole run, spends the whole run autoattacking with his guardian’s staff.

Guess who the game chose to give an ascended chest to while everybody else got nothing/rings?

That’s why I hate their lying devs and the bait and switch they did from dungeons, retiring the token system and putting RNG in its place.

I really hope he just AA because you gave him kitten and then RNJesus rewarded his passive aggression with a chest.

Genlog.4983:

lets say it different my English is not that great but i try my best

problem what i see is stacking all together that there can be a mistake in your team
with that all can die in just 1 blow

that’s why i play more in the back row if something go wrong i can mabye get them up again its a 50% change but its worth the shot ??

also am a ranger and always have 1 tank pet with me i can send him to to get them up fast or use his taunt skill if it works on bosses ?? never try it but ok if i can get my tank pet to argo the boss i can get my team up

i wanna play it on the save side then try all stand together and hoping we kill the mops or boss or they kill us all -.-

so for me i think for a party 3 close range and 2 long range for back up ??
and if those spirit mops i can use have a very long range i can help my party to with buffs and keep my spirits save

We have a 200-300 range to move 360 degre around the mobs. There is plenty of room. I guess they could make that large a bit like 300-400 range. But what’s the point of making that large, so that the ranger can camp longbow 2 kilometer away from his team playing alone. Open World is a good place to play alone. Group content is for a team.

Zenith.7301:

There’s so much that can be done to improve the current features of combat.

I don’t think GW2 combat can (or needs to) be fixed, because there are several reasons which lead to its stacking meta. Anet won’t change all of them.

-stationary fields which force players to stay in them and close to each other to gain advantage of them.
Even a WoR causes player so stay close to each other. (fields are some of the most static elements MMOs have to offer. So static that similiar skills were rarely used in GW1 PVE (wards)).

-Nearly every attack is aoe. Pull all enemies together and stack to profit from your aoes.

-Small ranged buff – stay close to each other. Teambuffs are aoe too.

This dumbs combat a bit down. On the one hand we got a fast mobile combat which feels a bit egoshooter like, which is imho a good thing.
On the other hand Anet killed all classic important tactic decisions, movement, control and many related skills/conditions/boons. Cripple, chill, speedbuffs, knockbacks, fear, range and positioning are less important in GW2 than they are, for example, in GW1.

I don’t think Anet has thought too much about their combat system. I won’t give a class like necro fear as core mechanic, if fear is in most PVE situations not welcome.
It even makes balancing for PVP/WvW and PVE at the same time more difficult.
(other indicators: tons of small effects which are not noticed by players, but sum up. No casual will care about +5% dmg – but in the end he loses like 100% dmg. Magic find as an armour stat. mixed stats on karma armours. Celestial/nomads. overlapping combofields. Dynamic combat combined with the most static elements MMO have to offer: aoes and fields. Dodge as strongest defence, even stronger than most defensive skills with long recasts. Dmg modifiers out of control. Huge damage gap between good equipped players and bad equipped – damage difference by equip, not skill. Many useles skills in PVE-combat. Defiance – looks like a last minute solution “ohhh, players could perma daze bosses”. Stuff like “with +100% boonduration two guards could grant perma stabi if we increase stabi duration from 5 to 6 seconds”. Etc.)

I’ve played around 1k hours or so. I’ve never had to ping gear nor have I been kicked for my class. I usually run a mix of soldier’s and zerkers too.

Honestly I bet the majority of people who post here saying they had to ping gear/were kicked due to class, were probably kicked due to not being level 80.

If Necromancers had similar mechanics to their Guild Wars counterpart they would be extremely useful in PvE while retaining the mutually exclusive elements to maintain the all important versatility of team comps.

The whole Curses line was pretty kitten great, skills like Barbs and Mark of Pain made a lot of extreme comps possible.

Mechanics like these got stripped out in the design process in order to simplify everything down to boons, conditions and raw damage etc. Rather than interpret them in a way that fits in with the new mechanics they were left out.

It’d be nice if the game introduced PvE only skills (similar to NF/GWEN expansions) as a way to manifest new skills/ mechanics and break up the PvE/PvP retrofitted balancing.

doddbox.8153:

If Necromancers had similar mechanics to their Guild Wars counterpart they would be extremely useful in PvE while retaining the mutually exclusive elements to maintain the all important versatility of team comps.

Repeat after me: necros can’t get mobility and active defense because they’re not supposed to be mobile; necros can’t give boons because they’re supposed to be selfish; necros can’t pump out unique conditions because.. you got chill and torment, right?
“But revs and mesmer have torment on aa and we have it on one sk—-”
“SHUT UPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!”

a wild x class with condi cleanse and -y% condi duration appears

/sigh

Talk about versatility! I doubt there’s a less versatile class than necro.
And the removal of hexes also removed a lot of complexity to the slower-controller type. Oh, also the dumbing down of interrupts didn’t help.

Anyway, even if the game were like lol – with 4 fixed skills per profession, people’d still get kicked for one reason or another. Most proffs got simplified with the recent trait update, but people still kick necros or ranger. There always is a reason, and no, the why rarely matters.
Making one or more selfish classes doesn’t do the game any good. What kind of design is it? Weapons that don’t let you dodge, classes with no vigor and blocks in such an active game environment… Phah.
“But we like the concept”. Yeah, right.

Been playing since beta and only been kicked once after joining SE p1 on my main(mesmer), I was the 2nd to join in lfg and 3 others join after me and then decided to kick me for no reason, lucky for me, I got invited back by the player who made the group only to get kicked again and then invited back again xD

Love the way this Zenith guy likes to show his “expertise” on ranger. One example: he blames ranger for not having any meaningful aoe. Very true. Does he blame warrior for not having any meaningful aoe too? He could also blame ranger for not having any portals. Very meaningful, indeed. It’s one thing if u dont like a class. It’s another thing if u pretend to give objective information, but barely can hide your own prejudices against a class. Btw, i have warr, guardian, ranger as 80s. Ranger is my main since it’s much more fun. And, unlike some highvoiced contributors here, I do know what I’m talking about.

I’m convinced Genlog is a troll. No way people can think like that 3 years into this game.

Oh and the kicking happens all the time. I still see those awkward “Heavies only” LFGs that give me a good chuckle. But oh well, not like PvE in this game has gotten any better. I have yet to meet a single decent person in my pug groups. I don’t expect it to change.

Kicked for having more action points than the entire group combined, and for bringing minions.