Guild Wars 2

I want to start a new char, but last time with my lvl 50 RANGER i had a hard time with groups for dungeons. Do i still need to choose between WARRIOR or GUARDIAN to not be kicked from a party?

No, you can pick mesmer too.

Sovta.4719:

No, you can pick mesmer too.

Sorry if sounds like i’m trolling or something, but really, do people still avoid RANGER and THIEF for dungeons like a plague? Because last time with my RANGER was horrible to be kicked from groups every kitten time. It was ridiculous, they judged me just because of my class!!

This is a international game. There is going to be a segment that hates eveyrthing. Some people exlude warriors. Some people etc. The key has always been finding like minded players. Not giving into to a random run when theres many options availible.

Not on easier dungeons, but on higher lvl fotm and cof farming yea. (in high fotm you can get in group, but only if they already have guard and another guard is not whispering party leader)

But, how common is to avoid ranger and thief players now? Long time since I do not play.

Most decent groups will not kick you based on class. But there is an issue with PUG’s. And that is you have no idea what you are getting into. Some will accept Rangers others will not, because they view Ranger as a weak PvE class.

Also you are below level 80, and even though you may meet the base level requirements for the dungeon, alot of PUG’s wont accept you at that level regardless of class (they only want 80’s). The only places I have seen alot of people kicked due to class is in FoTM 30+, as they actually do tend to slow down groups, or for CoF speed runs.

If you want to avoid being kicked based on your class join a Dungeon guild.

I’ve been PUGing dungeons on my Thief just fine.
I even PUG’d the Molten Weapons Facility on my level 10 Ranger without complaints from the team.

Or maybe I’m just lucky.xD

Most wont kick you but having more than one of those classes in a group hurts DPS and will result in a longer run.

I play War, Mes and Guard in all dungeons and I love em, but that’s not going to stop me from making a thief because I think I’ll have a lot of fun with one and it’s another char to run said dungeons with.

Many groups just ask for zerker gear but dont care about class, which is the best for almost all builds anyway, so it’s not too much of an issue

aophts.9862:

my lvl 50 … had a hard time with groups for dungeons.

I’d say I just correctly identified the real problem.

I’ve had no problems with my Thief for over 2k hours of dungeoneering.

I’ve had the occasional “OMG TIEFS R TEH SUCK” from a few people, who immediately shut up when they notice I’m carrying them the whole time.

I’ve received some really nasty comments from PUGs when I’m on my ranger. Today, for instance, I made a group for fractals, which happened to include 3 rangers. Finding two more people to get the group going was exceptionally difficult. People would join, and then immediately leave once they saw 3 rangers, even asking if this group was “for real.” When we finally found 2 more players – 2 warriors – one guy continually harassed us about random ranger stuff. The only justified complaint was when we reached Maw and had it target dead pets multiple times in a row – that fight lasted forever.

So yes, I think it’s safe to say that rangers are still largely hated.

Rangers are fine, the problem is the pet.

aophts.9862:

I want to start a new char, but last time with my lvl 50 RANGER i had a hard time with groups for dungeons. Do i still need to choose between WARRIOR or GUARDIAN to not be kicked from a party?

Ignore the care bear haters, come out and PvP. The only hate is from people dying from rangers, and their tears are delicious.

Tbh I sorta cringe when I see someone that I don’t know join with a thief or ranger. Why? On average that spot could be filled better by another profession. If I see either of those classes AND low AP…I really don’t expect much. If too much of that combination occurs in a group I usually part from the group prior to starting content.

I have been surprised by some rangers and thieves (heck I have 2 80 thieves and a 80 ranger myself), but most of the time I’d rather have another prof.

I have a thief. I play with my thief in dungeons. But sometime, when I see another thief in the group, the initial reaction is to cringe. It’s not really because of the profession, but how some people want to play it : like a glass canon ninja…it wouldn’t bother me too much if they were able to do it, but dying every encounters is extremely annoying.
And it’s far from being an isolated case.
But I still don’t kick anyone based on profession.

I don’t hate Rangers or Thiefs but I’m not happy to see them in my PUG either. Both professions suffer from similar issues. First they don’t add anything special to your group, which results in your group being less effective than it could be. Rangers suffer in addition from their rather pathetic pet mechanics and their reputation of being stupid created by lots of bad Ranger players. I might be totally wrong here, but in my experience the percentage of bad players is highest among Rangers.
Thiefs don’t suffer from bad profession mechanics but their players also have the reputation of not knowing how to do a dungeon. Yes, there are some dungeons out there were you can/should go full zerker gear and just burst your way through them, but for god’s sake that’s not how you the tougher dungeons and higher fractal levels. If you are a Thief and want to go full glass cannon than you better be perfect at it and don’t die to any random damage. But since most players are not perfect full zerker Thiefs tend to do less damage than full defense guards due to them spending a lot of time in down state or dead.

At the end of the day I’m totally fine with having one Ranger or Thief in my PUG, but more than that is not a good idea.

probably off topic but once in jade maw i was telling a ranger to stop attacking the colossi with a bow and use a melee weapon. He told me his only melee weapon is a shortbow.

There is no combination of anything that can’t complete a dungeon.
Dungeons just aren’t that hard at the end of the day.

Where you see class favoritism is specifically in the subset of people who are farming CoF path 1 for hours on end for a legendary. That’s objectively a pretty niche segment of the game’s population, but there’s two factors that tend to make their value system appear more prolific than their numbers would suggest. One being the simple fact that while they’re a small segment of people they make up a larger percentage of the actual runs; because the nature of what they’re doing requires repetition. The other being an overwhelming representation on forums because demographically the populations seem to intersect.

I think really think you should just go play the game with whatever class you want instead of worrying about what forum people will say.

You can certainly ask this question if you want, but the forum just isn’t a representative slice of the general population. If you really find the meta’s whole silly flavor of the month business so bothersome, just avoid CoF Path 1. For the most part that whole scene is concentrated on that path, and you can have a grand old time running dungeons anywhere else.

@Voy Hollow
It’s not only CoF 1 but FotM 30+ too. Here you have the “2 Guard minimum rule” if you want to get past it as fast as possible, and of course you take as few glass cannons with you as possible.
But you are right, you can do every dungeon that is not about either max dps or max survivability with every combination of professions.

If I can do 3 paths of a dungeon in the time it takes for a random pug that doesn’t discriminate against classes/builds to do one path, why should I opt for doing only one path ?

You shouldn’t.
You’re free to set your own goals and work towards them with like-minded people.

But that doesn’t matter to the rest of us.
Not everyone is interested in the growing their character aesthetically or they may continue to run dungeons long past the point of solidifying their visual identity. For some people running a dungeon is a social experience, for others it’s how they climb the skill curve or explore the character building options. Endgame is open-ended in this game, and we’re free to set our goals as we please. With different goals come different value systems, and values dissonance when you try to hold the behavior from one system to the standards of another.

For example;
I’d never even think to ask myself that question in the first place. It’s got nothing to do with my goal, so it simply doesn’t cross my mind. Likewise, I’m sure you must find all those people who start threads talking about preferring to fight trash mobs utterly baffling. That’s got nothing to do with your goal, so it’s not something you’re interested in.

nachtnebel.9168:

@Voy Hollow
It’s not only CoF 1 but FotM 30+ too. Here you have the “2 Guard minimum rule” if you want to get past it as fast as possible, and of course you take as few glass cannons with you as possible.
But you are right, you can do every dungeon that is not about either max dps or max survivability with every combination of professions.

Parties that require 2 guards at frac 38 are probably terrible; expect around 2 terrible players in the party.

nachtnebel.9168:

@Voy Hollow
It’s not only CoF 1 but FotM 30+ too. Here you have the “2 Guard minimum rule” if you want to get past it as fast as possible, and of course you take as few glass cannons with you as possible.
But you are right, you can do every dungeon that is not about either max dps or max survivability with every combination of professions.

At least 2 guardians? As few glasscannons as possible? Thats one reason why i hate FotM, encounters becoming even more boring because people think any not dps focused setup would be good. I still hate FotM in good groups (5 berserkers, at least 3 warriors) because of boring long bosses, though.

Dub.1273:

At least 2 guardians? As few glasscannons as possible? Thats one reason why i hate FotM, encounters becoming even more boring because people think any not dps focused setup would be good. I still hate FotM in good groups (5 berserkers, at least 3 warriors) because of boring long bosses, though.

And the rest of us dislikes those glas cannons that think they are any good outside of a pure dps oriented group.

nachtnebel.9168:

And the rest of us dislikes those glas cannons that think they are any good outside of a pure dps oriented group.

Pure dps oriented group failing at lupi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvaZYxGG23w

haviz.1340:

nachtnebel.9168:

And the rest of us dislikes those glas cannons that think they are any good outside of a pure dps oriented group.

Pure dps oriented group failing at lupi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvaZYxGG23w

I had wrong build, no bloodlust stacks and didn’t do lupicus for about a week

Dub.1273:

I had wrong build, no bloodlust stacks and didn’t do lupicus for about a week

That’s why it’s failing.

Nikaido.3457:

Bread.7516:

nachtnebel.9168:

@Voy Hollow
It’s not only CoF 1 but FotM 30+ too. Here you have the “2 Guard minimum rule” if you want to get past it as fast as possible, and of course you take as few glass cannons with you as possible.
But you are right, you can do every dungeon that is not about either max dps or max survivability with every combination of professions.

Parties that require 2 guards at frac 38 are probably terrible; expect around 2 terrible players in the party.

Yeah we are so terrible to want a faster run where we can melee everything (much higher dps than range) and get it done faster than your average group of “anything goes” carebears who think class does not matter.

With 2 guardians you can safely melee bloomhunger, mossman, all 4 mobs in the sad harpy fractal champ room […] things that take like 3 times as long in the average pug. I’ve never seen a pug go full melee in the ettin room until after the first three died. We start and end with full melee with a decent group that has two guard.
Of course 2 guard doesn’t mean 2 tanks, you want at least one of the two to go full berserker. You mostly want the guard for the hammer, reflection and aegis. Blind in some frac like cliffside.

It’s parties that do not require 2 guard that are terrible because they don’t really get this game.

I agree. At first I was denial to this fact, but the fact is you can do runs faster, more efficient with less deaths, whatever with guards/zerker warriors/ other zerker setups. All this bullkitten saying you can finish the run with any profession… well of course you can. After the “play for fun” is pass, you run for the rewards per time ratio.

I think Anet failed short on the no more trinity philosophy. There’s still is, especially on higher fotm, just hidden.

I’m still waiting for that 2 necro/2 engi/1 ranger setup that can supposedly match the guards/warrior/mes at harder dungeons.

as a BM ranger (almost 3k hr played, dungeon master back in october, 10 legendaries etc) im always tempted to kick ranger with SotH + 2 bears + 2 bows And unfortunately thats the majority of rangers joining for dungeon runs.

I think the problem with ranger specifically is that class has a very steep learning curve and the majority of PUG rangers contribute little to nothing to the team standing at 1200range autoattacking with shortbow. On the other side an average PUG brain-dead warrior has 100b and heavy armor\endure pain, which kinda makes grass greener

I played with Skady several times. Skady is a monster in dungeons—also very shiny.

And Skady would be even more of a monster if they switched to a non-screwed up class.

Skady.5916:

I think the problem with ranger specifically is that class has a very steep learning curve

I don’t think that this is the whole story. As with any class, there’s a steep curve at the right-hand side of the experience-vs-effectiveness chart. The problem lies in the middle, where there’s a huge “learning plateau”. The technique that you mention (equip a bow and three Signets, send in the bear, attack from max range, knockback anything that gets too close) is effective for so much of a player’s PvE career that they don’t bother learning any other tricks. To speak a bit fancifully, it’s a First-Order Optimal Strategy which becomes a psychological trap.

When a player brings this tactic to a dungeon, it will often seem “good enough” (e.g. because a Guardian is providing heavy support to the team) and so the player keeps using it. If the team fails, the Ranger player can simply assume that that the content is over-tuned, or that their teammates are incompetent (“I was the last man standing, so obviously you melee guys don’t know what you’re doing”). There’s not much room for minor improvements (“I guess that I could replace one of my signets with a spirit, but they suck and always get killed. Screw it, let’s just try it again with the same tactics and see what happens”) and so the player isn’t likely to adapt even after suffering a major setback.

That, I think, is the main reason why people are reluctant to include Rangers in their dungeon teams. Other professions are forced to notice their flaws (such as a facetanking Warrior getting downed by a single trash mob for the fifth time, or a phantasm Mesmer seeing his fragile damage-dealers get destroyed by splash damage before completing a single attack) and adapt, but there’s no guarantee that a Ranger player – even a veteran Ranger player – will have learned how to be a useful member of a dungeon team.

My most interesting experience with a Ranger teammate came when I was leading a newbie group through CoF Path 3. One of the team’s Rangers was using Greatsword as his primary weapon, with Longbow on swap. On the one hand, I was happy to see someone experimenting rather than using a cookie-cutter build. There was some definite potential for team-play there: he could act as a “tackler,” grabbing aggro, evading attacks, dropping traps and Muddy Terrain to leave foes vulnerable to melee cleaves and channeled AoE attacks. Unfortunately, his skill level wasn’t up-to-par yet; he kept getting himself killed by charging into groups that were too tough for him (and he couldn’t figure out the appropriate moment to use “Protect Me”). Eventually, I had to ask him to just to do the bow-attacks-at-max-range thing so that we could win the wave fight and finish the dungeon.

Short Answer: No, nobody outside of COF farming will avoid thieves or rangers. Nobody.

Noobs have a huge misconception of rangers simply because all they do is dungeons. Rangers and thieves are the two dominant classes in both pvp and WvW.

There are alot of bad rangers out there, which is the same case for all classes. Warrior are a complete liability in anything outside cof quick runs, elementalists are too weak defensively to be reliable, etc. There is an issue with all classes in dungeons when they are played wrong for that specific dungeon.

Rangers can do 2 things exceptionally when made the right way: DPS and Tanking.

A regen bunker build is by far the best tank in the game, better then even a guardian.
And a berserker ranger traited for full crit%/crit dmg is second only to the warrior in constant DPS.

The problem arises when people try to become hybrids of those two. The fact is though that rangers are built for their own survavibility, and their SPIRITS were supposed to be used for the better of their group, however ANET made spirits terrible so they don’t help much.

Katostrophe.3274:

Short Answer: No, nobody outside of COF farming will avoid thieves or rangers. Nobody.

Noobs have a huge misconception of rangers simply because all they do is dungeons. Rangers and thieves are the two dominant classes in both pvp and WvW.

Do you even understand why those classes are better in pvp and zvz?

aophts.9862:

I want to start a new char, but last time with my lvl 50 RANGER i had a hard time with groups for dungeons. Do i still need to choose between WARRIOR or GUARDIAN to not be kicked from a party?

Just find a guild not run by fools and you’ll be fine with any class.

I find the most enjoyable runs are when we manage to have 5 different classes.

We have the benefit of having 3 like enough minded GMs, all of whom suffer altitus, and so we encourage class diversity by simply refusing to stick to one option ourselves. :P

There are plenty of guilds like us though. Check places like facebook, google+, guildlaunch, and so on to find a server forum and see if there’s a guild there looking for people and with interests that better meet your needs.

They need server forums here…

Avoiding a thief is pretty silly considering they are quite good at evading damage, stealth, and a great projectile blocker. Their damage aint too shabby either, second only to warrior!

Nikaido.3457:

Bread.7516:

nachtnebel.9168:

@Voy Hollow
It’s not only CoF 1 but FotM 30+ too. Here you have the “2 Guard minimum rule” if you want to get past it as fast as possible, and of course you take as few glass cannons with you as possible.
But you are right, you can do every dungeon that is not about either max dps or max survivability with every combination of professions.

Parties that require 2 guards at frac 38 are probably terrible; expect around 2 terrible players in the party.

Yeah we are so terrible to want a faster run where we can melee everything (much higher dps than range) and get it done faster than your average group of “anything goes” carebears who think class does not matter.

With 2 guardians you can safely melee bloomhunger, mossman, all 4 mobs in the sad harpy fractal champ room […] things that take like 3 times as long in the average pug. I’ve never seen a pug go full melee in the ettin room until after the first three died. We start and end with full melee with a decent group that has two guard.
Of course 2 guard doesn’t mean 2 tanks, you want at least one of the two to go full berserker. You mostly want the guard for the hammer, reflection and aegis. Blind in some frac like cliffside.

It’s parties that do not require 2 guard that are terrible because they don’t really get this game.

I dont PUG

We each have alt guards, mes, wars (and more). we rotate classes whenever we feel like it.

1 guard, 1 mes, 3 war. we melee all of what you mentioned, tell your mesmer to trait properly.

“It’s parties that do not require 2 guard that are terrible because they don’t really get this game.”

So yeah, i guess i know the game more than you since we pump more DPS while maintaining melee range.

Katostrophe.3274:

Short Answer: No, nobody outside of COF farming will avoid thieves or rangers. Nobody.

Noobs have a huge misconception of rangers simply because all they do is dungeons. Rangers and thieves are the two dominant classes in both pvp and WvW.

There are alot of bad rangers out there, which is the same case for all classes. Warrior are a complete liability in anything outside cof quick runs, elementalists are too weak defensively to be reliable, etc. There is an issue with all classes in dungeons when they are played wrong for that specific dungeon.

Rangers can do 2 things exceptionally when made the right way: DPS and Tanking.

A regen bunker build is by far the best tank in the game, better then even a guardian.
And a berserker ranger traited for full crit%/crit dmg is second only to the warrior in constant DPS.

The problem arises when people try to become hybrids of those two. The fact is though that rangers are built for their own survavibility, and their SPIRITS were supposed to be used for the better of their group, however ANET made spirits terrible so they don’t help much.

ah that must be why we see so many 4 ranger/1 mesmer dungeon speedruns

Rangers are the worst class for most dungeons and definitely the worst for fractals. Your group should be grouping up mobs and cleaving them. Rangers have single target dps which adds little value in that scenario which consists of half or more of a dungeon. Their utility value is out shined by other classes as well. They are a burden at high level fractals and lead to longer runs and more wipes because of these 2 things.

Thieves are middle ground as far as classes go but if your group has no problem skipping or doing the content then mesmers and guardians have better utilities and warriors have better dps so it’s better to bring them instead. I don’t mind having a good thief in the group though.

The problem also is the players’ mentality. Rangers are a very laid back class to go wander around with. When it comes to dungeons it seems like most don’t know the content, don’t know their class, don’t know how to dodge, don’t know how to manage pets, and don’t want to have any responsibilities like picking up the hammer. I’ve seen so many thieves just run in and die over and over again or just range the whole time and very few that really know how to play their class. That is another reason why people avoid/hate these classes.

Ever saw Lupicus fighting a (dead) pet? He pretends to be a child again (do Giganticus Lupicus’ have a childhood?) and bubbles each 8 seconds.

OP, just avoid speed runners. Like hardcore raiders, these kitteners only see fun as completing content the fastest. If you don’t find that fun, don’t join those groups on the GW2LFG site. All PUGs I have run with are generally friendly and don’t care what your class/build is as long as you can play and know the dungeon mechanics (or say its your first time). Play well and have fun, ignore the kitten-grinning elitists.

obal.3218:

I’ve seen so many thieves just .. or just range the whole time and very few that really know how to play their class.

This is why I’m more happy to see a ranger than a thief. Better to have actual rangers than ranger-wannabes.

obal.3218:

Rangers are the worst class for most dungeons and definitely the worst for fractals. Your group should be grouping up mobs and cleaving them. Rangers have single target dps which adds little value in that scenario which consists of half or more of a dungeon. Their utility value is out shined by other classes as well. They are a burden at high level fractals and lead to longer runs and more wipes because of these 2 things.

Thieves are middle ground as far as classes go but if your group has no problem skipping or doing the content then mesmers and guardians have better utilities and warriors have better dps so it’s better to bring them instead. I don’t mind having a good thief in the group though.

The problem also is the players’ mentality. Rangers are a very laid back class to go wander around with. When it comes to dungeons it seems like most don’t know the content, don’t know their class, don’t know how to dodge, don’t know how to manage pets, and don’t want to have any responsibilities like picking up the hammer. I’ve seen so many thieves just run in and die over and over again or just range the whole time and very few that really know how to play their class. That is another reason why people avoid/hate these classes.

That’s odd, my drakes, greatsword, and axes cleave on every attack. But last time we played together we were beating Simin on our first try (back during Simin hard mode) and I was full on single target DPS so maybe you don’t remember that ranger cleaves. I regularly reflect 50k on lupicus phase 2 aoe as well akitten every target for 5000 with path of scars using clerics armor. But, yeah, surprised you didn’t know rangers cleave like that.

Dub.1273:

Ever saw Lupicus fighting a (dead) pet? He pretends to be a child again (do Giganticus Lupicus’ have a childhood?) and bubbles each 8 seconds.

No, thats from kiting. Lupicus casts necrid trap on running players. IMHO you shouldn’t lose a pet fighting Lupicus. Contrary to popular opinion—and as demonstrated by players like Obal—most bosses in Arah heavily favor melee, even Lupicus.

Chopps.5047:

obal.3218:

Rangers are the worst class for most dungeons and definitely the worst for fractals. Your group should be grouping up mobs and cleaving them. Rangers have single target dps which adds little value in that scenario which consists of half or more of a dungeon. Their utility value is out shined by other classes as well. They are a burden at high level fractals and lead to longer runs and more wipes because of these 2 things.

Thieves are middle ground as far as classes go but if your group has no problem skipping or doing the content then mesmers and guardians have better utilities and warriors have better dps so it’s better to bring them instead. I don’t mind having a good thief in the group though.

The problem also is the players’ mentality. Rangers are a very laid back class to go wander around with. When it comes to dungeons it seems like most don’t know the content, don’t know their class, don’t know how to dodge, don’t know how to manage pets, and don’t want to have any responsibilities like picking up the hammer. I’ve seen so many thieves just run in and die over and over again or just range the whole time and very few that really know how to play their class. That is another reason why people avoid/hate these classes.

That’s odd, my drakes, greatsword, and axes cleave on every attack. But last time we played together we were beating Simin on our first try (back during Simin hard mode) and I was full on single target DPS so maybe you don’t remember that ranger cleaves. I regularly reflect 50k on lupicus phase 2 aoe as well akitten every target for 5000 with path of scars using clerics armor. But, yeah, surprised you didn’t know rangers cleave like that.

It’s rare that I see a ranger with anything but a bow. Out of all the rangers I’ve partied with in dungeons I’ve seen maybe 2 use something else. You are in the one percent. Which brings up the topic point.

I play thief on dungeon and fractal.Don’t really having much trouble on those.But seeing bad players running general PvE build (No group buff , extra dodge , stability) which usually fall in 2 classes those are ranger and thief.Since both class doesn’t have much choice on those.Especially when fail to get out of the harm way because they just stand there and take the hit.

Chopps.5047:

Dub.1273:

Ever saw Lupicus fighting a (dead) pet? He pretends to be a child again (do Giganticus Lupicus’ have a childhood?) and bubbles each 8 seconds.

No, thats from kiting. Lupicus casts necrid trap on running players. IMHO you shouldn’t lose a pet fighting Lupicus. Contrary to popular opinion—and as demonstrated by players like Obal—most bosses in Arah heavily favor melee, even Lupicus.

Wait, didn’t you get that info from me?
Anyway, it’s wrong. It’s not neither running, nor players. It’s generally based on movement and since pets can’t stop shuffling they get bubbled extremely often. I never played Arah as ranger though but what i saw last times we had one in our group was really, really funny.

obal.3218:

It’s rare that I see a ranger with anything but a bow. Out of all the rangers I’ve partied with in dungeons I’ve seen maybe 2 use something else. You are in the one percent. Which brings up the topic point.

I carry my SB into dungeons for 2 reasons, first is because I joined a PUG. I dont know how the other players will play so need my SB to be safe in case of worse situation. The 2nd is because some parts of dungeons require ranged.

When I’m in my usual dungeon party, I have my sword/axe and greatsword on. I’ve been using GS 3 months into the game before Anet made it the cool new thing for rangers. It is simply an amazing weapon and Path of Scars for Axe offhand is godly burst for us with opening strike trait. It applies 10 stacks of Vuln opening the fight then Whirling defense with QZ for another 12 stacks, 22 stacks of Vuln to start the battle with your party.

Its just alot of rangers out there that makes us look bad. The same can be said for thieves, many poorly played ones.

The 2nd is because some parts of dungeons require ranged

Which? I cant think of a single encounter in named dungeons where that is true.