Guild Wars 2

I partied with ranger who just sent his pets and ALL enemies die!!!!!! Great ranger, superb pet.

Dub.1273:

RyuDragnier.9476:

I wonder if you’ve partied with any good rangers at all, Dub.

I speak from my own experiance trying those professions out. And even the best ranger would loose against an average pug Warrior (which is extremely bad lol) in contributing to the group.

Right, and warriors are actually good in PvP. rolls eyes

RyuDragnier.9476:

Dub.1273:

RyuDragnier.9476:

I wonder if you’ve partied with any good rangers at all, Dub.

I speak from my own experiance trying those professions out. And even the best ranger would loose against an average pug Warrior (which is extremely bad lol) in contributing to the group.

Right, and warriors are actually good in PvP. rolls eyes

Better read.
In PvP Ranger is probably as close to OP as a profession can be.

Well you’re saying that rangers are useless in dungeons, even though they have AoEs in the way of traps and healing spring. By that logic, then aren’t elementalists themselves useless in dungeons?

Pretty much yes unless they’re running lightning hammer/fiery GS in specific situations.
Not useless tho, just less useless than warriors. They still do way more damage than any ranger could.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Well you’re saying that rangers are useless in dungeons, even though they have AoEs in the way of traps and healing spring. By that logic, then aren’t elementalists themselves useless in dungeons?

Those trap AoEs and healing spring are useless compared to the damage output from warriors. A car going 10 miles an hour is moving faster than one standing still, but you wouldn’t call 10 mph “fast” compared to the top speed of an F1 car.

Dub.1273:

Pretty much yes unless they’re running lightning hammer/fiery GS in specific situations.
Not useless tho, just less useless than warriors. They still do way more damage than any ranger could.

I’m seeing a lack in logic here. You seem to be hating for the sake of bandwagon hating. I bet you’re somebody who also thinks that engineers aren’t good in dungeon.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I’m seeing a lack in logic here. You seem to be hating for the sake of bandwagon hating. I bet you’re somebody who also thinks that engineers aren’t good in dungeon.

Your mistake is that you assume he thinks they’re not “good”. You’re wrong. They are good, they’re just not the best. For speed runs of anything that optimize time efficiency, min/maxing based on class capabilities is very popular. It happens in GW1, it happens here. GWM are the best classes in GW2 for speeding through PvE content without a shadow of a doubt. It doesn’t mean the others aren’t good, it just means they aren’t desired when you’re speeding.

Like I said earlier, I know that I, for example, am okay with spending 5-10m more in each dungeon and using whatever classes the players feel like using. The only time I’m not okay with it is if it’s like 3 necromancers and a condition engineer, where the DPS is so bad that my warrior single-handedly does more DPS than the lot of them combined.

I agree that rangers are not good in speed runs, but neither of you said speed runs, you said Rangers weren’t good, so you never specified at all. You must specify in order to avoid this sort of meaningless argument in the future, as I think everybody agrees that Rangers aren’t good in speed runs.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Companion%27s_Might

“Critical hits grant might to your pets.” One stack of might for 1 second on a 1 second cooldown. If rangers are “good” then everyone is good, and there’s nothing “bad” at all. You have to have comparison points, and you have to engage the full scale from awful to exceptional, or you wind up with the GW2 community where everyone is happy with their participation ribbon and the average skill level never makes it out of the basement.

RyuDragnier.9476:

I’m seeing a lack in logic here. You seem to be hating for the sake of bandwagon hating. I bet you’re somebody who also thinks that engineers aren’t good in dungeon.

Engies are great for Arah3 kiting part.

Yesterday I did a CoF run with my thief friend and some ranger pug. The ranger insisted that rangers have super high damage and are even better than thieves for single target dps. He then started spamming chat for the whole dungeon about how his pet wakittenting for 3-5k. First run, the ranger wanted to do the door to show how tough he was but my buddy got there first and did it instead. He killed the door in around 3s after the door opened.

We did one more run and this time decided to let the ranger do the door this time. This really was his time to shine! 20 seconds later, the ele on one of the circles died. We all left combat and went back in. After another 10 seconds, the ranger killed the door.

randomfightfan.4091:

We did one more run and this time decided to let the ranger do the door this time. This really was his time to shine! 20 seconds later, the ele on one of the circles died. We all left combat and went back in. After another 10 seconds, the ranger killed the door.

My Ranger clears the controller in 2-3s. It’s really not a good benchmark for whether a class is good or not because it cannot be crit, depends more on player skill (lining up your burst, not getting CC’d by the igniter while bursting it, etc), and so forth.

Rising Dusk.2408:

randomfightfan.4091:

We did one more run and this time decided to let the ranger do the door this time. This really was his time to shine! 20 seconds later, the ele on one of the circles died. We all left combat and went back in. After another 10 seconds, the ranger killed the door.

My Ranger clears the controller in 2-3s. It’s really not a good benchmark for whether a class is good or not because it cannot be crit, depends more on player skill (lining up your burst, not getting CC’d by the igniter while bursting it, etc), and so forth.

Can you upload a video of that? Not that I doubt you, just that I think it’d be really neat and I’m trying to learn my ranger a bit for the day (probably never coming) that they get a major revamp.

I would, but it’d require I figure out how to make a video in the first place! (I should figure that out)

I can explain it, however. Basically, you control-t target the controller before the gate goes down. Then, with it targeted, you repeatedly hit F1 to sick your pet onto it. Because of new pet mechanics, your pet won’t aggro the igniter. Then, when the gate opens, you QZ into Barrage + Rapid Fire (with full zerker gear) and hit F2 at the same time with a Drake out, whose breath attack shreds the controller. My best time so far on my ranger is somewhere between 2 seconds and 3 seconds, but I haven’t really cared enough to time in milliseconds to know the exact value.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Dub.1273:

Pretty much yes unless they’re running lightning hammer/fiery GS in specific situations.
Not useless tho, just less useless than warriors. They still do way more damage than any ranger could.

I’m seeing a lack in logic here. You seem to be hating for the sake of bandwagon hating. I bet you’re somebody who also thinks that engineers aren’t good in dungeon.

Yes. Because they aren’t. As stated before, calling something good or bad has to happen as comparison. When you now compare ranger to any other profession you will come to the result that rangers suck. Engineers are also really bad, they bring some few might and 25 stacks vuln but are unable to do “good” damage themselves.
Necros, rangers, engineers are worse than other professions – always. Sometimes eles are great but mostly they are bad. Thieves are great but not always able to contribute as much as a warrior. Mesmers themselves are great for utility. The only problem is that more than one mesmer in the group can almost be replaced by are ranger, thus beeing useless. Guardians have almost the same problem but can pull out some okay damage. And warriors are simply always great.

Trying to argue a class is better at speedrunning ergo people who are not interested in speedrunning should pay it some special mind, is like extolling the virtues of bacon based on it’s superior aerodynamic properties.

It’s not about if it is or isn’t, it’s that we just don’t care. You’re trying to convince somebody with a different value system, that what you’re insisting is true based on what is or isn’t valuable in your system. That line of discussion will never go anywhere. The things that are intensely valuable and important to you, just aren’t for us.

Not only for speedrunning. For everything in PvE.

But you’re proving that point, with speedrunner examples and values.
This simply doesn’t resonate universally.

A warrior offers more dps than any ranger, making content easier.
A guardian offers more dps and more suport than any ranger, making content easier.
Repeat this with all other professions.

Vox Hollow.2736:

But you’re proving that point, with speedrunner examples and values.
This simply doesn’t resonate universally.

The only universal truth about the quality of rangers is that they’re the best at being rangers. For literally every other facet of gameplay in PvE, other classes are better.

The only thing I’d say you’re forgetting is that some people derive more enjoyment out of playing their Ranger than their <INSERT OTHER CLASS HERE>, or sometimes players just like mixing it up and using different classes. If no one minds the run taking a few minutes longer as a result, then no problem.

It’s not like other MMOs where “If you use X class, you can’t come to Z instance because the run becomes impossible.” In GW2, that run is still totally possible, just takes a few minutes longer to compensate. If you are a speed demon and just want speed, then yeah, you’ll discriminate against Rangers and Necros and Engineers. But if you’re in it for the experience, or are more casual, then it shouldn’t be a big deal and you should be fine bringing ‘whatever’ so long as the player isn’t abysmal.

Basically, that.

Additionally, the endgame in this game is more about the goals you set for yourself, not making progress within a defined overarching structure like a Gear Treadmill or a Ranking system. I think carving out your character’s Aesthetic Identity is a fine goal (even if I have a million little criticisms about how the long-term goals play out on a practical level). But that’s no more objectively sanctified than running dungeons to advance along the skill curve, explore character building options, or just an activity you do on your downtime.

But, this really shouldn’t be the sort of thing that needs to be described in detail. It should be pretty clear from how often we get the ‘skipping’ thread, that players are not seeing eye to eye on a pretty fundamental level. So when I mention that speedrunner values and standards aren’t universally accepted, is that really so surprising?

RyuDragnier.9476:

Dub.1273:

Pretty much yes unless they’re running lightning hammer/fiery GS in specific situations.
Not useless tho, just less useless than warriors. They still do way more damage than any ranger could.

I’m seeing a lack in logic here. You seem to be hating for the sake of bandwagon hating. I bet you’re somebody who also thinks that engineers aren’t good in dungeon.

You’re talking to the guy who solo’ed lupi on an engineer in a bunch of <80 exotics and green gear. Just for the purpose of doing it. I’m pretty sure he can say with relative certainty why engineers suck.

Now, the only part where I disagree with dub is the fact that he sees the ele’s as subpar to warriors due to their lower damage. But to be honest, from running both my ele and my warrior a lot in CoE, I can say that in some places, ele damage far outdoes the warrior’s. On the condition you replace 1 warrior with 1 ele (need dem mightstacks and dat fury). LH autoattack hits for anything ranging from 18k to 36k, mostly hoovering around 26-28k autoattack chains, which take 1.5 seconds to perform. Not to mention the burst capacity of a well used fiery greatsword (2.5-2.8k fiery rush ticks for example).

Now, this is an isolated example though. I thoroughly avoid bringing LH ele’s in Arah for example because in certain environments like Arah, they become too much of a liability to bring, and their slightly more damage does not outweigh the risks of taking one, since the time saved due to the extra damage is pretty negligible and a Warrior brings almost equal damage, but much more survivability.

Other than that, I agree with dub on almost all accounts.

Well, all in all i played about 40 minutes on an engineer, so im not aware of how much exaactly one can pull off. Same for necro and ranger (solo coming soon i hope). The only reason i was doing them was to have lupi solod on all professions. But even after 30 minutes i can see about how useful a profession can be. I dont believe eles are subpar to warriors, just that warriors have a higher chance of pulling their full potential under average circumstances out. In CoE or AC Eles are way stronger than warriors, also in some other dungeon parts. But i.e. when fighting a non melee mob without chances to pull it into an edge, warriors are usually delivering better damage. Lightning Hammer Eles, Lich-Necromancers and Thieves can do more damage, but will have a much harder time. Also they kind of need the damage support from warriors to reach their maximum potential.

Let me try this same point from another angle.

The only metric of success and failure represented in the actual game proper is failing or succeeding to complete the dungeon. That’s the only thing that’s actually sitting in the code on somebody’s computer at Arenanet. The additional measures of success or failure you abide by is purely a social construct. It is not something that is actually sitting in the code on somebody’s computer at Arenanet. These are a system of values you and several other people who share your goals have defined amongst yourselves.

So, you’re correct, I am just saying these classes can go through the content. But I’m also saying that’s all it has to be for some people. There just isn’t any sense of success or failure beyond that, or their sense of success or failure is based in an entirely different system that can’t be measured by factors of time and deeps.

Vox Hollow.2736:

Let me try this same point from another angle.

The only metric of success and failure represented in the actual game proper is failing or succeeding to complete the dungeon. That’s the only thing that’s actually sitting in the code on somebody’s computer at Arenanet. The additional measures of success or failure you abide by is purely a social construct. It is not something that is actually sitting in the code on somebody’s computer at Arenanet. These are a system of values you and several other people who share your goals have defined amongst yourselves.

So, you’re correct, I am just saying these classes can go through the content. But I’m also saying that’s all it has to be for some people. There just isn’t any sense of success or failure beyond that, or their sense of success or failure is based in an entirely different system that can’t be measured by factors of time and deeps.

I think you’re absolutely correct here, but I’ll add that this is true to the detriment of the game and the community that plays it. Think about how much more self-evaluation and skill refinement would be going on if there were some sort of leaderboards for dungeon clear times, and you average G/E/R/R/N group was seeing that even on their best run they’re taking 3-4 times as long to complete dungeons as the top groups.

This game gives people no feedback on how well they’re actually doing outside of the binary success/failure metric, and it makes the playerbase horrible. Look at how much trouble people had with Subdirector NULL, for god’s sake.

@ Nikaido
That’s still operating from the perspective of having a certain sense of success or failure beyond merely completing the dungeon. You’d start to see this whole ‘classes competing for slots’ dialogue on a universal level if choosing classes had an impact on the ability of your group to complete a dungeon. (ex; pre-‘bring the player not the class’ era WoW). But it really doesn’t, so people just aren’t as invested.

@Broadicea
Well, maybe. Endgame PvE lacking a defined overarching performance-based structure (of some kind) could very well be a bad thing. It’s definitely an interesting area of discussion, at any rate.

I remember doing a Crucible run once that ONLY WANTED RANGERS…
I’m pretty sure though this was only b/c it greatly sped up the one Destroyer fight.
…y’know, the one with the recharging Tethers that brought down its Shield….

I think they only allowed my Guardian along b/c they figured I could spam Stability Shouts (which I always did anyway in that Dungeon as it always turned a difficult high-skill required but gimmicky Boss- mechanic AKA: the Crystal-Prison … into a total Faceroll just like most GW1 gimmick Boss fights always were).

I think Rangers would be a lot more Welcome in a lot more dungeons if they had ways to grant allies Stability or Vigor from smarter pets who stayed back to provide those sorts of buff … I don’t know why Anet limited them so much instead of just rolling more of the Ritualist’s facets directly into them. Every Ranger in GW1 was a /Rit. Why didn’t they just make GW2’s Rangers more /Rit-like??

Vox Hollow.2736:

But it really doesn’t, so people just aren’t as
[…]

It does. An inexperienced group of 5 rangers/conditionnecros won’t be able to pass some dps checks like AC Path 1 burrowevent or pre-patch simin.

Dub.1273:

Vox Hollow.2736:

But it really doesn’t, so people just aren’t as
[…]

It does. An inexperienced group of 5 rangers/conditionnecros won’t be able to pass some dps checks like AC Path 1 burrowevent or pre-patch simin.

To be honest, I’ve seen plenty of groups that had difficulties with AC path 1, team comp isn’t the big issue here, it’s not understanding the fight. The fact that certain groups can brute force it with DPS doesn’t help. But I would take that bet.

Any players who haven’t done AC with Condition Necros or Rangers out there want to join me?

Nikaido.3457:

I had a wipe at grawl when I was playing on my guardian because I was in a very low dps group and we couldn’t kill the vet shaman. We spammed CC but that’s worthless when more spawn one after the other and you couldn’t possibly CC 3 at once. Just having a single person switch to his dps warrior made it so that we could kill everything without losing a single captive.

How’s that for DPS check.

I agree it’s one of the very few true DPS checks in the game. I’ve had to swap a few times in this fight too. But it’s not really exclusively a Ranger issue, I’ve seen it with Mesmers, Guard and Eles too.

We had a ranger in the group, a “friend of a friend” and it was mostly a progression run. I really don’t like grouping with rangers. They are useless. They don’t bring support for this fractal but they don’t bring the dps we need either to burst veterans and grub quickly.

Now here is the thing, Rangers can be great in fractals, really good. I’ve seen a few that have been tough, put out decent DPS and supported the team well. The Issue is these have been maybe 10% of the Rangers I’ve played with. The vast majority have been really bad, I think a lot of them don’t understand some fundamentals of the game. But saying that the same could be said about a lot of Warriors. I think they are the two cases where it’s really variable what you get. And think it might be because both are SO easy to level in open world.

Ranger is such a terrible class why would anyone level that to high level fractal is beyond my level of comprehension.

Because they enjoy the class and enjoy a challenge.

rangers dont have bad dps; its just a massive pain in the kitten to get
sword rooting is counter intuitive to any encounter that requires twitch dodging
pets are pathetically dumb (a ‘dodge when i dodge’ would mitigate this alot; though it would be OP in pvp; it would help pve/wvw)

any support they bring is much better done by a different class
fury? eles and warr can pump it out without the horrible delay that red moa and call of the wild have
water field? ele.
cleanses? ele… guard… warr…
‘passive’ buffs (spirits)? warr banners.
combat res?… well… i do love spirit of nature renewel; but its not practical to summon it and then have the cast delay whilst someone is downed… (and gets mauled by aoes)
vulnerability? engi… warr…
projectile control… whirling axe sucks; it only protects half of the ‘ranger’ anyway
range? theres not really anything that needs 1500 range… but even so; engi does it better

… i love my ranger… but in dungeons… its just… not good

not that id refuse a ranger access to a party or anything; but i would be happier if a different class had joined instead

thieves are fine in dungeons imo, not ‘top tier’, but definitely not ‘ranger tier’

but of course ranger and thief seem to have the highest amount of bad players behind the wheel; which doesnt help things

Like I said above, the Class isn’t “BAD”, it passed with flying colors in PVP so well it had to be nerfed hard and still felt like super easy mode in WvW.

It’s my second highest Alt and the first class I did both AC story & exp on back in Beta when it really was super hard. Me and a guardian carried the rest of the team in both cases. Post release, my Ranger continued to carry lot of pubbers through the Story mode. The problem is that Pets were just designed WRONG. There’s no flexibility in them. What we need is the ability to “evolve” them into ranged Support roles… Make them our personal “Batteries” b/c the DPS they put out just doesn’t follow the same pattern that GW1 allowed.

In GW1 you could make your Pet a DPS MONSTER with the right setup b/c most bosses died really fast once you got the right 8-player Wambo Combos on them. In this game you don’t fight Bosses, you have 5 ppl fighting giant Hitpoint Bars that oneshot anything dumb enough to stand in melee with them. It’s such a huge step back from GW1.

So yeah… there it is right there: Team Sizes are different meaning there’s no “SLOT” for a ranger like there was when we could bring 8…. And Ranger can no longer include all the PvE utility that /Rit secondary allowed. Ranger/Rit was a Swiss Army knife of WIN. You could do so many creative things in addition to the the more boring but super-effective stuff (like S-way & Sp-Barrage). Even a Trapping team could kill major bosses in 1 or 2 salvos while the A.I. Heroes mitigated SO MUCH MORE DAMAGE just with interrupts. Where is that Creativity and SKILL in this Ranger? I don’t see it. No one sees it. And that’s why they’re bad for Dungeons despite being fairly face-rolley for the other Gank-Festy or Sit&Zerg parts of the game.

Warrior vs Ranger

More than boosting the ranger I just think thief and warrior damage need nerfing. Thief and warrior base damage numbers just blow everyone else away out of the water, and in a game that values damage above all else for encounter efficiency, that’s a problem.

Even with the guard shout to give the pet 10 secs of protection, the pet still dies. And if you have to recall your pet to you so it doesn’t take the lethal aoe means you just halved your damage while the warrior is doing his full damage with a rifle.

Ranger pets need aoe/cleave damage resistance, period.

Also, boost the kitten spirits. You can start by removing that asinine internal cooldown on the spirit effects you placed in beta considering other classes can apply those boons more frequently to a group with shorter cd’s to boot.

Make spirits cast the aoe effects on your target, not where they are considering most of them are stationary and you want to place them 40 miles away from the action so they don’t die in 2 seconds to a sneeze.

It does. An inexperienced group of 5 rangers/conditionnecros won’t be able to pass some dps checks like AC Path 1 burrowevent or pre-patch simin.

My position is that lacking a defined overarching structure this value system is not universal. The counter-argument would be trying to prove that this value system is universal. We can certainly have a difference of opinion related to the ‘Why?’, and while that’s interesting it’s ultimately tangential because it doesn’t prove or disprove universal acceptance. This is about people having various perspectives, not passing judgement on those perspectives.

Nikaido.3457:

Zenith.7301:

More than boosting the ranger I just think thief and warrior damage need nerfing.

No. Warrior and Thief are definitively dps classes, they don’t bring much utility to the group (and with all the nerf on stealth and even revealed while dropping bombs..), these classes would make no point if you dropped their damage to the level of a dps guardian. It would just make guardian even more OP than it is as a dps guardian can still deal decent damage and has so much support it’s not funny.

Ranger is also a dps oriented class. It’s just that the whole class mechanic and pet is broken. You can see it in a lot of the buffs the ranger can give to the group and himself, it was meant for dps, it’s just broken when it comes to actually dishing it out.

Ranger is so strong in PVP partly because the pet won’t die half as much (or at all) and there is little need for cleave in tournaments. In PVE the class is broken. Even if you nerf thief and warrior damage, ALL of the other classes would STILL be a better pick than a ranger. I would still take a guard, ele, necro, anything over a ranger. Ranger needs a buff.

Nothing matters in this game besides damage. You just need one guy for reflection and time warp, and there’s no point for a non-“dps oriented class”.

You don’t stack guardians. You don’t stack necros. You don’t stack engineers. You don’t stack elementalists.

You stack warriors and thieves. Because damage is the most valuable utility in the game.

So when warriors and thieves blow everyone out of the water, there IS a problem.

Nikaido.3457:

It still does not change the fact that ranger has nothing for itself. Nerf the war and thief damage and people will just stack guardians. If the fight last longer a dps guard still has good damage and much better mitigation.

At no point will the ranger be considered a class as good as any of the others as long as it doesn’t get buffed in PVE. Ever.

And if you think the guard and mes are only useful for the reflection and timewarp you haven’t done much in the way of speedclears. We constantly use the CC, the stability, the protection etc. The reason why warriors don’t ever need to slot balanced stance is because he can trust the guard to use stand your ground when he needs it.

As for grouping trash mob, there is nothing better than focus pull and greatsword pull when you can’t LoS.

A single guardian can bring wall, spirit shield, and stand your ground. You don’t need many. You just stack the classes that do the best damage after you’ve got time warp and a guardian.

Yeah, ranger needs buffs, but you’d need to buff all classes to match warriors and thieves, which won’t happen for obvious spvp reasons. If something like mesmers or eles get damage increases the spvp people will wail for the next century.

Zenith.7301:

Yeah, ranger needs buffs, but you’d need to buff all classes to match warriors and thieves, which won’t happen for obvious spvp reasons. If something like mesmers or eles get damage increases the spvp people will wail for the next century.

I remember back when thieves were unanimously known for being the worst dungeon class in the game and were completely useless. It seems like it was only a week ago… oh wait.

Yea, too many terrible thieves give good thieves a bad name. Still kitten es me off whenever I get kicked from a group just b/c of my class though. Would happen multiple times a day, every day, just b/c of my class. People shouldn’t be so dense. If the player is bad, you’ll find that out 2 mins into the run. If they suck, kick and replace. Don’t just kittenoon as they join your group. It makes you look like an ahole.

At least you get kicked from the group because they are WRONG. If you are an engineer or necro or ranger, however, it’s another story — and worse because the kick or unwillingness to take you is actually justified as you ARE significantly increasing clear times for the group.

Nikaido.3457:

Zenith.7301:

Nikaido.3457:

It still does not change the fact that ranger has nothing for itself. Nerf the war and thief damage and people will just stack guardians. If the fight last longer a dps guard still has good damage and much better mitigation.

At no point will the ranger be considered a class as good as any of the others as long as it doesn’t get buffed in PVE. Ever.

And if you think the guard and mes are only useful for the reflection and timewarp you haven’t done much in the way of speedclears. We constantly use the CC, the stability, the protection etc. The reason why warriors don’t ever need to slot balanced stance is because he can trust the guard to use stand your ground when he needs it.

As for grouping trash mob, there is nothing better than focus pull and greatsword pull when you can’t LoS.

A single guardian can bring wall, spirit shield, and stand your ground. You don’t need many. You just stack the classes that do the best damage after you’ve got time warp and a guardian.

Reading comprehension ? I’m saying that if you nerf the war damage there is NO point in bringing wars anymore. If they were to do about as much as a dps guard (which does have decent dps.) why would you not just bring more guards ? You don’t need more reflection but dps guards can do more than bringing reflection. If the fights last longer (by virtue of not having the current level of damage our party can do) a guard can constantly blind mob which is much better than anything a war could do.

Wars only have dps. There is nothing else to the class. Nerf it and you’ll have created a class that is worse than ranger, gg.

Hello banners/fury uptime/best vulnerability stacking besides engineer in the game?

Warriors will be taken if only for the banners, which offer boosts no other class can provide in the game.

Crit damage boost alone is outrageously OP for a single class to have for a group.

And guardians need a nerf as well to utility anyways, considering they are not only second to warriors in the PvE hierarchy, but they are top dog for WvW teams.

randomfightfan.4091:

Yea, too many terrible thieves give good thieves a bad name. Still kitten es me off whenever I get kicked from a group just b/c of my class though. Would happen multiple times a day, every day, just b/c of my class. People shouldn’t be so dense. If the player is bad, you’ll find that out 2 mins into the run. If they suck, kick and replace. Don’t just kittenoon as they join your group. It makes you look like an ahole.

It seems like many used the theives guild skill and learned by example.

Had a good CM1 run about a half hour ago. Took about 30-45 minutes to do, and we had a ranger (me), an engineer, a necromancer, a thief, and a guardian doing it. Barely any deaths throughout the path, no wipes, and good jobs from all involved. I know for a fact I majorly helped out with the Frost, Flame, and Spike traps thrown around, and I had an enjoyable run. A shame most people don’t try out such team setups.

obal.3218:

It seems like many used the theives guild skill and learned by example.

?

Nikaido.3457:

Zenith.7301:

More than boosting the ranger I just think thief and warrior damage need nerfing.

No. Warrior and Thief are definitively dps classes, they don’t bring much utility to the group (and with all the nerf on stealth and even revealed while dropping bombs..), these classes would make no point if you dropped their damage to the level of a dps guardian. It would just make guardian even more OP than it is as a dps guardian can still deal decent damage and has so much support it’s not funny.

Ranger is also a dps oriented class. It’s just that the whole class mechanic and pet is broken. You can see it in a lot of the buffs the ranger can give to the group and himself, it was meant for dps, it’s just broken when it comes to actually dishing it out.

Ranger is so strong in PVP partly because the pet won’t die half as much (or at all) and there is little need for cleave in tournaments. In PVE the class is broken. Even if you nerf thief and warrior damage, ALL of the other classes would STILL be a better pick than a ranger. I would still take a guard, ele, necro, anything over a ranger. Ranger needs a buff.

I suppose banners, fury an,d might are not any sort of utility. You sure you run with DnT bro? lol

RyuDragnier.9476:

Had a good CM1 run about a half hour ago. Took about 30-45 minutes to do, and we had a ranger (me), an engineer, a necromancer, a thief, and a guardian doing it. […] A shame most people don’t try out such team setups.

Djee, I wonder why people wouldn’t take such a setup that does a run 3 times slower than a W/G/M setup can.

A good team with a good DPS setup (doesn’t even need to be W/G/M) can do every single CM path in 45 minutes. You just did 1 path in that time and you’re asking why people hate those classes?

You’re acting like 30-45 minutes is a long time for most people to run a single area of a dungeon. Almost every single run I’ve done of a dungeon that’s not a speed run takes around that time to complete if there are no problems whatsoever. And to most players, that’s a good enough time for a single run.

Just because it doesn’t meet your speedrunning standards doesn’t mean it’s a horrible time taken. Especially considering that almost every single run I do with a W/G/M in 3 of the slots ends up taking that long or longer because either the Warrior or Guardian sucks and don’t know what they’re doing. You’d be surprised how easy it is to get horribly skilled players in W/G/M roles due to the current dungeon meta preferring those classes over the others.

Well, you wondered why people avoid the setup you had, I gave you a reason. Let’s say you have a team of experienced people running your setup. I’d say the fastest they’d be able to do CM P1 would be around 15-17 minutes, whereas a setup with better DPS classes could do the same in 10minutes.

Warrior probably has the lowest skill ceiling regarding dungeons, whereas guardians and mesmers take a little more skill and thiefs can pull off some stuff better than a warrior, but it’s harder for a thief to pull it off, thus a warrior can do almost the same, but twice as easy.

A ranger will never be a viable option because every class in the game has better utility and DPS, outside of maybe their Warhorn skill Call of the Wild, which gives good Fury (15s), but only gives 1 might stack and is on a 35sec cooldown.

Yes, a good ranger could perform better than a bad warrior, but if that good ranger played a warrior, we’d be a hell of a lot better of. But a bad ranger will perform a lot worse than a bad warrior, and quite frankly, finding a good PUG ranger in GW2 is like finding an ounce of gold in a sewer. Sure, it might be there, but I’d rather not dig through all the kitten to find it.

From what I can tell, most Rangers are fully aware of the meta, and almost every run I have with one (I always ask for people experienced in the dungeon) has them doing what they’re supposed to, with little to no problems. If you’re running into problems with them, you’re probably not asking for players experienced in the dungeon, as almost every single person I run into on dungeon runs nowadays who meets that criteria is on an alt of some kind.