Guild Wars 2

Hello,
I pug a few (3-4) dungeons every day for a few tokens. I play an engi, zerk gear & bomb (melee-ish range).

In dungeons such as CoE I learned to dodge the subject afa AoEs, but not the ice elementals attacks or that first wolf boss. In AC I cannot find a way to anticipate Kohler’s attacks, and so on

Most of the warriors / guardians (that would be 90% of the players I guess) appear to have found a way to avoid /mitigate the damage.
For me, stacking is… dicey, depending on the boss.

Thank you for the tips.

Ice elemental attacks can be reflected with wall of reflection/feedback. The circle aoe dropped by the colosusses also can be aegised by a guardian, however most pugs dont rlly understand these wild and terrifying concepts. First wolf bosses attack will be ice to begin with. One person should go and pull and draw out the ice attack then stand in the corner with the party. The ice does not happen again for another 32 seconds roughly in which time it should be dead. Kohler’s pull has a large windup and he glows somewhat brown, this is where the guard should put up reflect (that everyone shuold be behind) or mes feedback, however if pugs fail this then you can dodge or stability it but don’t run back in until he’s finished spinning. Blind are also useful on trash mobs such as wolves but don’t count on many pugs knowing when to use them.

Blocks/blinds combined with dodges

The main problem is, in the case of Kohler, that when the party is all stacked in that small space I can’t see kitten. Back in the days when this “stacking” thing was not in use, I had no issue dodging him. But now, with all the big norn warriors and stuff + my explosions, I can’t see kitten.
Thx for the input so far, I will try to adapt.

Typical stacking on kholer will make it somewhat difficult to see his tell as he will most likely be in the wall partially. This is way speed clear teams bring reflects that they rely on not to fail while they burst kholer.

Sometime reflect bugs, sometimes someone or a pet is on the wrong side of the wall, and sometimes people just miss the reflect but usually kholer is dead before you have to dodge. If the reflect works, kholer will be knocked down and prob dead within 10 secs; if it fails, he’ll spin and probably wipe anything in melee range within about a sec, unless you’re a warrior, then you might get 2.

As an engi you have access to a reflect or an absorb in Elixer U, I believe, and should bring it if you’re pugging, much easier to rely on yourself than on a random guard or mes that could be running god knows what utilities. I believe kholer will get knocked down from the absorb but I haven’t run absorbs on him enough to know for sure. It’s like a 50% chance that the elixer produces a wall or a smoke screen.

Projectile protection is one of the most important utility types in game, and you should bring it when you can if you don’t trust the other people in your pug. Necro is the only class that doesn’t have something that can do this, either trait or utility, and that’s one of the reason’s necro is the last thing most people bring to a dungeon.

Ice Elementals in CoE give you at least 3 seconds warning, a huge cone shaped ice AoE, and a very distinct sound effect to dodge away. The attack can be reflected so it’s usually not an issue.

J Eberle was halfway there, Champ Wolf has two attacks that will one shot a Berserker, the Ice attack and Earth attack (forget their names) but they’re just instant cast PBAoEs, generally used in succession (most of the time). Safest way is too let Spire tank both, before aggroing it. Also a Guardian has the easiest way of baiting it out by comboing dodge rolls, Shelter, Focus 5, and possibly even Renewed Focus until both attacks have been delivered in which you’re all clear for roughly 30-35 seconds which should be more than enough for a zerk team to melt him.

As for Kholer, even if his scorpion wire is reflected/absorbed he will still do his spinning blades of death. For reflection to work he must not have any stacks of Defiance which means you’re team cannot use any CC during the fight, this way when he does scorpion wire, he will interrupt his own attack.
There are situations where the number of wires reflected is enough to wipe his stacks of Defiance and interrupt him anyway but I find this very unreliable as it means everyone must be perfectly positioned (and some nice RNG) as opposed to only needing one scorpion wire to get reflected.

Camera tip if you’re a guard using s/f and you have to use sword 2 on a cornered enemy – back out of the stack a bit, with the target in front of you and on its behind the corner, then use sword 2. This ensures you don’t put the camera on the wall, with your vision obscured by both your model and your allies.

Another tip for the champ ice wolf which I don’t think was mentioned is that his ‘tell’ before he drops that ice puddle that insta-drops most groups stacked on him is that he (usually) bites anyone near for like ~20% dmg. so if ur group is stacking and u see a sudden drop in all their HP, thats ur cue to step back to avoid his next fatal attk. Also, whenever someone in ur group pulls him or if u dont see him drop that ice thing before he leashes to that group then u should dodgeroll back immediately to avoid a down and possible death.

It looks like you’ve run into the typical dungeon tactics created by heavy classes for heavy classes. It makes everyone else look rubbish so even more people take heavies.

My tip for boss stacking would be to make sure the mobs are in place and then drift off the stack to a safer spot, perhaps round the rear of them or just out of melee (with your bombs). If you’re still sharing buffs, dishing out the aoe damage, etc then it can be a lot better but your team mates might not be understanding if you go down. The more exploitative the stacking less the freedom you have to move off, typically.

I take every class on my super scummy leetist stacking runs except necros.

Stooperdale.3560:

It looks like you’ve run into the typical dungeon tactics created by heavy classes for heavy classes. It makes everyone else look rubbish so even more people take heavies.

My tip for boss stacking would be to make sure the mobs are in place and then drift off the stack to a safer spot, perhaps round the rear of them or just out of melee (with your bombs). If you’re still sharing buffs, dishing out the aoe damage, etc then it can be a lot better but your team mates might not be understanding if you go down. The more exploitative the stacking less the freedom you have to move off, typically.

What awful advice, and if the mob/boss suddenly aggro’d onto you and broke the stack then you’ve potentially neutered your team’s DPS by 90% and risk wiping.
I stack all the time on my Berserker Ele (squishiest class in game) just fine, and in fact encounters like Subject Alpha (p1 and p3) you’re actually safer by stacking inside him as you avoid his Teeth of Mordremoth attack (actually finding this harder to do, stealth buff? o.O )
Then of course you’ve got Spider Queen from AC where breaking the stack can cause her to drop poison and wipe your team.
People stack for a reason and there is no excuse for breaking it because “I’m not a Warrior”. Stacking can be, and is, done with squishy classes quite often.

^ This. You’re better off with your team. It’s not about you. It’s about the team. If you’re burning mobs fast enough, you should be fine.

If someone goes down, they are easy to pick up in the stack too.

I am pretty sure that I have seen kholer not do the spin even with defiance, just as long as everyone is protected by the wall. It’s kind of like alphard where the pull sometimes penetrates through wall. Either that or the NPC may be outside of the wall and gets pulled, which is pretty appropriate for an NPC to do.

If I’m not wrong kholer doesn’t do daggerstorm if nobody gets pulled by the scorpion wire.

J Eberle.9312:

I take every class on my super scummy leetist stacking runs except necros.

:’c

Dolan.3071:

Stooperdale.3560:

It looks like you’ve run into the typical dungeon tactics created by heavy classes for heavy classes. It makes everyone else look rubbish so even more people take heavies.

My tip for boss stacking would be to make sure the mobs are in place and then drift off the stack to a safer spot, perhaps round the rear of them or just out of melee (with your bombs). If you’re still sharing buffs, dishing out the aoe damage, etc then it can be a lot better but your team mates might not be understanding if you go down. The more exploitative the stacking less the freedom you have to move off, typically.

What awful advice, and if the mob/boss suddenly aggro’d onto you and broke the stack then you’ve potentially neutered your team’s DPS by 90% and risk wiping.
I stack all the time on my Berserker Ele (squishiest class in game) just fine, and in fact encounters like Subject Alpha (p1 and p3) you’re actually safer by stacking inside him as you avoid his Teeth of Mordremoth attack (actually finding this harder to do, stealth buff? o.O )
Then of course you’ve got Spider Queen from AC where breaking the stack can cause her to drop poison and wipe your team.
People stack for a reason and there is no excuse for breaking it because “I’m not a Warrior”. Stacking can be, and is, done with squishy classes quite often.

I think they changed that Alpha attack to start from inside of him instead of just infront of him. Main reason why I’d rather do p2 and p3 with pugs.

Taku.6352:

Dolan.3071:

Stooperdale.3560:

It looks like you’ve run into the typical dungeon tactics created by heavy classes for heavy classes. It makes everyone else look rubbish so even more people take heavies.

My tip for boss stacking would be to make sure the mobs are in place and then drift off the stack to a safer spot, perhaps round the rear of them or just out of melee (with your bombs). If you’re still sharing buffs, dishing out the aoe damage, etc then it can be a lot better but your team mates might not be understanding if you go down. The more exploitative the stacking less the freedom you have to move off, typically.

What awful advice, and if the mob/boss suddenly aggro’d onto you and broke the stack then you’ve potentially neutered your team’s DPS by 90% and risk wiping.
I stack all the time on my Berserker Ele (squishiest class in game) just fine, and in fact encounters like Subject Alpha (p1 and p3) you’re actually safer by stacking inside him as you avoid his Teeth of Mordremoth attack (actually finding this harder to do, stealth buff? o.O )
Then of course you’ve got Spider Queen from AC where breaking the stack can cause her to drop poison and wipe your team.
People stack for a reason and there is no excuse for breaking it because “I’m not a Warrior”. Stacking can be, and is, done with squishy classes quite often.

I think they changed that Alpha attack to start from inside of him instead of just infront of him. Main reason why I’d rather do p2 and p3 with pugs.

So that explains why I was downing so often the other night rofl. I hadnt done coe in over a month and decided to pug path 1 on my ele. Was with 4 warriors so I didnt exactly have any help when it came to alpha teeth. :<

spoj.9672:

J Eberle.9312:

I take every class on my super scummy leetist stacking runs except necros.

:’c

I take every class except guardians.

rogerwilko.6895:

The main problem is, in the case of Kohler, that when the party is all stacked in that small space I can’t see kitten. Back in the days when this “stacking” thing was not in use, I had no issue dodging him. But now, with all the big norn warriors and stuff + my explosions, I can’t see kitten.
Thx for the input so far, I will try to adapt.

Pretty much this. I have lost interest in dungeons these past months and only do them with similar minded friends because I have no patience for stacking. Things that were easy such as dodging the attacks become kill fests with my camera inside other players and the bosses tells lost in a blinding fury of spell animations and moving party members.

Dolan.3071:

Also a Guardian has the easiest way of baiting it out by comboing dodge rolls, Shelter, Focus 5, and possibly even Renewed Focus until both attacks have been delivered in which you’re all clear for roughly 30-35 seconds which should be more than enough for a zerk team to melt him.

Except when the team that says they’re zerker is not. Or when the witty warrior is too afraid to get downed and aggro him far from the corner, or when… well you get it. When I pug this, I say that I aggro and everything goes fine for the pull itself. When I’m not on my guard, I ask the guardian to give me aegis and the pull goes fine as well. When I’m out of those options, I still pull it, but after Spire took the two hits, unless some bad player pulls it far from the corner.

Also, as a guardian zerker, I can take the earth hit, yet I’m at 5% life afterwards if I was full life. I would imagine that a thief and an ele would be insta-downed, but not the other professions.

I prefer mesmer to bait out the champ wolfs attacks.

spoj.9672:

I prefer mesmer to bait out the champ wolfs attacks.

spoj.9672:

I prefer mesmer

spoj.9672:

mesmer

No.

Only if you are taking one obviously. :P

Dolan.3071:

Stooperdale.3560:

It looks like you’ve run into the typical dungeon tactics created by heavy classes for heavy classes. It makes everyone else look rubbish so even more people take heavies.

My tip for boss stacking would be to make sure the mobs are in place and then drift off the stack to a safer spot, perhaps round the rear of them or just out of melee (with your bombs). If you’re still sharing buffs, dishing out the aoe damage, etc then it can be a lot better but your team mates might not be understanding if you go down. The more exploitative the stacking less the freedom you have to move off, typically.

What awful advice, and if the mob/boss suddenly aggro’d onto you and broke the stack then you’ve potentially neutered your team’s DPS by 90% and risk wiping.
I stack all the time on my Berserker Ele (squishiest class in game) just fine, and in fact encounters like Subject Alpha (p1 and p3) you’re actually safer by stacking inside him as you avoid his Teeth of Mordremoth attack (actually finding this harder to do, stealth buff? o.O )

Its not good advice for groups that know what they’re doing and have good dps, but for the average pug this is more or less what i end up doing. Most pugs have like a 50/50 chance whether they will break stack for the champ or they won’t (‘range everythin’ mode). In pugs in general u should try to limit how long u melee the champ especially if im a zerk ele because I know i dont trust pugs to revive me when im downed. Even in the pugs we do stack for him I’ll stack abt 80% of the time and after 30sec or so I’ll step back so i dont get insta-downed by his aoe, and start ranging him from a ‘safe spot’. because like i said i just dont trust pugs to revive me when they should, especially if I’m on my glass ele and I know how squishy they are.

I would still take you spoj T_T

If my party can’t kill Champ Wolf before it drops its PBAoEs again then it’s a good indicator to leave party and find a better group

I prefer mesmer to bait out the champ wolfs attacks.

If we’re going down that path I’d rather use my Bear pet to aggro it.
Not even joking, Mr Wolf doesn’t feel threatened by harmless little kitties and uses his psychic powers to detect my presence behind the corner

“What awful advice, and if the mob/boss suddenly aggro’d onto you and broke the stack then you’ve potentially neutered your team’s DPS by 90% and risk wiping.”

No you’re just not getting it. If you break from the stack but stand close enough, round the side, the mobs won’t leave the dps field if they turn towards you. You can’t leave the stack too early, you can’t do it for mobs like the spider queen, but experience can help you pick the right times. Of course many players have no experience because they only know stacking.

Stooperdale.3560:

“What awful advice, and if the mob/boss suddenly aggro’d onto you and broke the stack then you’ve potentially neutered your team’s DPS by 90% and risk wiping.”

No you’re just not getting it. If you break from the stack but stand close enough, round the side, the mobs won’t leave the dps field if they turn towards you. You can’t leave the stack too early, you can’t do it for mobs like the spider queen, but experience can help you pick the right times. Of course many players have no experience because they only know stacking.

This is very situational, as it only applicable to bosses using only Directional/cone AOE. in the case of champ wolf if you have people using FGS rush, you will pull the boss out of FGS’s flaming ticks if you happen to aggro it.

Just need to get out of the kill zone if the wolf is not killed after ~30second CD of his leap attacks. stay behind him does not guarantee safety as he will turn around at the worst moment.

To be honest I kind of lost interest in dungeons.
All of the runs I made within the last month(I was away from GW2 for a long while) involved stacking in a place or another and spamming stuff.
Very few dodges. No tactic. Moar warriors.
It’s just a mindless race to the next stacking place.
No fun.

rogerwilko.6895:

Very few dodges. No tactic. Moar warriors.
It’s just a mindless race to the next stacking place.
No fun.

I agree.. I’m joining way too many groups like those that ask for ‘heavy only’. Who needs any other class when u got mindless warrior button-smash and prot/heal spams from a guardian? Right no other class can be trusted. Ele FGS only makes alpha fights last longer (of course). I got kicked from a speedrun zerk group for AC P3 too. Didn’t u get the memo?? eles are now useless for AC burrows!! I swear its devolving into those cof p1 farm days. 4 warior 1 mesmer groups..except now that the mesmer would get kicked too.

J Eberle.9312:

I would still take you spoj T_T

It may be because I’m currently not sober, but hey :winkwink:

Stooperdale.3560:

“What awful advice, and if the mob/boss suddenly aggro’d onto you and broke the stack then you’ve potentially neutered your team’s DPS by 90% and risk wiping.”

No you’re just not getting it. If you break from the stack but stand close enough, round the side, the mobs won’t leave the dps field if they turn towards you. You can’t leave the stack too early, you can’t do it for mobs like the spider queen, but experience can help you pick the right times. Of course many players have no experience because they only know stacking.

No. If you were experienced you would never break the stack.
I can’t add anything else as it’s already been said.

Dolan.3071:

No. If you were experienced you would never break the stack.

wise words!
or?…