Guild Wars 2

Hello. I would like to ask some questions about what you might call the GW2 dungeon meta. While I hear the idea is for every class to be viable and able to pull their own weight, I am sure that by now there must be some favoritism with at least semi-legitimate reasoning behind it. I am currently a level 38 thief and I am already starting to feel somewhat less important than other professions such as warriors, guardians, and eles when it comes to dungeons (based on word of mouth and forum posts, not experience). I would like to do some serious PvE at level 80 and was hoping someone could clear things up a bit for me.

My question is, what professions, if any, are considered most important to groups and what professions are considered least important?

As I am fairly new to this game and my knowledge is fairly limited, I would like to know what each profession can bring to a group that would make them more valuable than another.

Thank you in advance.

Warriors are very useful everywhere, one guardian is very useful almost everywhere and one mesmer is useful almost everywhere. Situational Eles are very useful. Thieves are nice too but don’t bring much to the party in fights. Rangers, Engineers and Necros just suck. I’d rather go with an open spot than taking a ranger, anytime, everywhere.

Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers are the three best professions for dungeons. The group make up I’d prefer to run with is: 3 warriors, 1 guardian, 1 mesmer.

Warriors for damage.
Guardians for protection.
Mesmers for control.

In the current meta most people seem to have a hard on for warriors, mesmers, and guardians. The team setup with them is quite good and it has a relatively low learning curve which is why it is so popular but I’d say that an Engineer and Necromancer are an incredible asset to the team IF they are good and know how to play their class correctly (and some of it is also situational— they excell in dungeons like TA.) Rangers have been nerfed so hard they are definitely one of the weakest classes.

So in the meta I’d say that there is a stigma towards anything that isn’t a Warrior, Mesmer, or Guardian but in reality most Professions can hold their weight. However, Pug mentality will always dominate so I’d have at least one of the three professions that everyone seems to like fully geared for pugs runs.

It is true that any profession can hold their weight. However, people are more after efficiency instead of just higher chance of success. That is why Warriors, Guardians and Mesmers are preferred. Warriors put out silly amounts of damage in dungeons, Guardians are capable of multitudes of team support and Mesmers have Time Warp and all sort of projectile management (like Guardians) as well as Temporal Curtain and some other team support while doing very nice damage in the process.

Combinations of those 3 professions are more efficient at clearing out rooms in PvE content due to that.

Dub.1273:

Warriors are very useful everywhere, one guardian is very useful almost everywhere and one mesmer is useful almost everywhere. Situational Eles are very useful. Thieves are nice too but don’t bring much to the party in fights. Rangers, Engineers and Necros just suck. I’d rather go with an open spot than taking a ranger, anytime, everywhere.

So basically any profession that does damage in a more sustained or over time manner is useless in the meta’s opinion. Seems there needs to be some adjustment to either content or the profession if that is the case.

Bran.7425:

Dub.1273:

Warriors are very useful everywhere, one guardian is very useful almost everywhere and one mesmer is useful almost everywhere. Situational Eles are very useful. Thieves are nice too but don’t bring much to the party in fights. Rangers, Engineers and Necros just suck. I’d rather go with an open spot than taking a ranger, anytime, everywhere.

So basically any profession that does damage in a more sustained or over time manner is useless in the meta’s opinion. Seems there needs to be some adjustment to either content or the profession if that is the case.

When both sustained and bursty DPS have the same average output, bursty is always going to be better because fights are not infinite.
My grenade engineer can inflict 3 stacks of 15 sec bleed with a 4/5 second CD skill that also has a fairly good attack speed, inflicts some vulnerability and easily deals about 2k direct damage unbuffed. This is a good amount of damage and can be interesting for long fights like bosses, but most of the DPS vanishes if the enemy dies in less than 5 seconds.

Condition damage also suffers from stacking issues. 2 or more condition characters are going to handycap each other.
Sometimes a second toon is not even needed for this to happen. For example, a single guardian is going to provide almost 100% of burning upkeep on single target fights (most bosses), which obviously hampers any condition build with some investment on burning.
This is probably the main reason for condition/hybrid builds to be avoided. For a build that loses power when paired by chance with a similar one its obviosuly hard to be popular.

Usually burst is also better than sustained direct damage because, if played well, evades are going to happen instead of low damage output moves, so the %DPS loss is going to be smaller.

In any case, warrior priority is not about them doing high burst direct damage. It´s about them usually doing MORE damage while providing a really good offensive support through might, fury and vulnerability.

I do dungeons with War/guard/mes only. Sometimes only war/mes. Condition builds are for pvp only.

That’s why we have dredge fractal.

No professions are poor. However, only some professions will have a “meta” build.

This happened in GW1 and it probably happens in every MMO. There are two issues:
1. What is a time-efficient run.
2. What is easy to screw up and what is easy to get right.
The confluence of these two factors determines the “meta.” Some dungeon paths can be done extremely quickly by certain builds of certain professions with low chances of failure. You see them dominating searches on gw2lfg.

For point 1, certain runs cannot be done quickly (e.g., the Forward/Forward path of Twilight Arbor), so you do not see many people doing them. Certain runs don’t lend themselves to the “meta” build (like path 2 on Sorrow’s Embrace), so you don’t see many people doing them.

For point 2, all professions can be done awesomely. BUT… certain ones are easy to screw up. Thief can be done poorly. It takes more skill to do massive damage on a thief than a warrior. It also is easier for enemies to down a poorly played thief than a poorly played warrior. Therefore, people looking to get done quickly are sometimes reluctant to take thieves. Also, condition damage professions don’t stack well (you add poison duration to your enemy, but two people hitting the enemy doubles the damage over time).

If you don’t care about being a super dungeon runner, don’t worry about it. It will just take a bit longer to find groups. If you want a super dungeon runner, make a warrior, guardian or mesmer. It does not have to be your main character.

No matter how the game is designed, this will happen. With game changes, the super dungeon runner profession may change, as well. One day it could be that every pro dungeon run needs a thief in full clerics armor and a sylvari ranger for double binding vines attacks. Who knows? Assassins in the GW1 meta went from almost useless to awesome to almost useless to essential and awesome over the years.

Professions that have the most difficult time getting groups, roughly in order of “meta” hate: necromancers, rangers, engineers and fourth place is a tie between thief and elementalist.

That said, I did a fast fractals run the night before last with 2 engineers, a ranger and a thief with my guardian (I guess I spoiled it by bringing a meta profession, huh?). We kicked their rears with little difficulty. All professions can do it.

Dub.1273:

Warriors are very useful everywhere, one guardian is very useful almost everywhere and one mesmer is useful almost everywhere. Situational Eles are very useful. Thieves are nice too but don’t bring much to the party in fights. Rangers, Engineers and Necros just suck. I’d rather go with an open spot than taking a ranger, anytime, everywhere.

You’d rather 4-man a dungeon than take a ranger? Do you think they actually have a net negative effect on the group?

Tea Eye Ay.6248:

I would like to do some serious PvE at level 80 and was hoping someone could clear things up a bit for me.

Thank you in advance.

WOAH there is serious PVE in this game? When did they patch that in?

Also yes there is favoritism in PVE and WVW and PVP and it is because of glacially slow patching, terrible balancing, and a seemingly unresponsive dev team. The same classes have dominated PvP, PvE, and WvW since the beginning of the game with little to no change.

My first character was engi, I ran what we had back then as a best dps spec for engineers – grenade spam. If you don’t know, grenade kit on engi don’t have autoattack, all skills from that kit also use ground targeting. So any boss fight transformed in to a chore of endless clicking. While the damage was kinda decent – it was nothing stellar. But I also stacked a lot of vuln, so people invited me to parties.

Then I’ve made a warrior. The difference in damage output is huge, warrior wins without any trouble. AND he also has autoattack, and you actually have more time to look at the enemy and dodge instead of frantically using ground targeted skills.

Now I actually feel that it’s my DPS that lowers the health of the boss instead of chipping it off bit by bit.

So yeah, all classes are equal, but some classes are more equal than others.

And you need to understand that a lot of encounters in dungeons are focused on bursting down a group of mobs quickly. Using guardian, mesmer and LOS to stack mobs and then DPSing them down quickly is a key part of quick and easy dungeon run. Insane CC and AOE stacking from mobs, short boon duration and lack of group healing make any prolonged fights risky.

Dub.1273:

Warriors are very useful everywhere, one guardian is very useful almost everywhere and one mesmer is useful almost everywhere. Situational Eles are very useful. Thieves are nice too but don’t bring much to the party in fights. Rangers, Engineers and Necros just suck. I’d rather go with an open spot than taking a ranger, anytime, everywhere.

While rangers do might suck as a class atm, they can still be quite valuable in hands of skilled players so dont underestimate them that much.

I don’t know about you guys, but I once ran Arah exp with a staff ele, zerk war, and here’s the best part, engi(me), ranger and necro. It was a piece of cake, had no problems at all.
I don’t believe in profession priority, guild wars 2 depends more on skill rather than on gear and profession.
Another day, I decided to roll the same path of Arah, this time, I rolled my zerk warrior. We had the same guardian, the same necro, but instead of the staff ele and the zerk warrior, we had a thief and a guardian. They were both well geared with exotics, but kitten kitten they were useless. I could not remember the amount of times we wiped at lupi. They couldn’t dodge the AoE, they complained that they can only dodge twice because they’re too stupid to realise that they can walk out of the AoE if they can.
I’m just saying that doing dungeons mostly depends on player skill and experience.
My engineer is full berserker geared and uses a static discharge rifle crit build. I feel much more useful than condition damage or support tank. Wouldn’t you guys think a 3.5k crit hip shot(auto attack) is great?

Dr Hashbrown.7104:

Wouldn’t you guys think a 3.5k crit hip shot(auto attack) is great?

Not really.
And it’s not an aoe also. So meh.

Just do a quick browse of the LFG and you’ll see posts from people demanding Warriors and/or Guardians to make up for their own inability to not be stupid. That should give you a rough idea of the “profession priority.”

I see some people don’t realize one thing. They’re trying to use the fact that skilled rangers (necros, engis, thieves, whatever non-meta class) are exist to counter the “war, guard and mes are superior” statement.
Player skill and the game balance have nothing to do with each other. Give that skilled ranger player a guardian and you’ll see that group performance is increased drastically.

Also. I see bad rangers very often. As well as I see bad warriors.
Though, a bad mesmer or a bad guardian are more of rare sight.
I think it very much depends on complexity of leveling. Ranger basically requires a shortbow, some tanky pet and almost all low level encounters are breeze. You only need to press 1, sometimes 3.
Warriors can aggro a lot of mobs and simply kill them.
Mesmer on the other hand is very dependant on actually thinking how to kill mobs effectively, after lvl40 you need to trait well to able to AoE-clear mobs fast and so on.

guardian
mesmer
warrior
elementalist
necro
theif
ranger

in that order. also, all the people talking about rangers – the ranger we run with is a beast. i guarantee she would outplay 2/3rds of anyone in this thread. guaranteed. the class may be kitten but to take an empty spot over any ranger is a pretty kitten kitten mode statement.

crunkfresh.9025:

guardian
mesmer
warrior
elementalist
necro
theif
ranger

in that order. also, all the people talking about rangers – the ranger we run with is a beast. i guarantee she would outplay 2/3rds of anyone in this thread. guaranteed. the class may be kitten but to take an empty spot over any ranger is a pretty kitten kitten mode statement.

Give that player a guardian and she would outplay every single one in this thread. The fact someone plays ranger godly does not make a ranger viable.

One only needs to look at Fractal level 40+ and some of the Youtube videos of 60+ to see how much the scale tilts in favor of the guardian and a skillbar littered with anti-ranged options.

I also put the ranger on the bottom. His dps got recently nerfed which some player I know seemed not to like to the point of declaring another class their new main. Ranger dps is split between the character model which the player controls and the pet which the AI controls. I can trust a ranger player to deal damage, but the AI usually is wasting theirs.

When rating classes, self-heal is also an issue. Guardian and elementalist are usually very forgiving, having more than one heal and multiple condition removers. As a result, the chance of being a burden to a dungeon run due to being downed is low. While there is nothing really wrong with the Thief, the options are somewhat more limited on his end in comparison. A really good player is able to overcome that, but the skillbarrier is still such that usually the thief is one of the first people to die.

crunkfresh.9025:

guardian
mesmer
warrior
elementalist
necro
theif
ranger

in that order. also, all the people talking about rangers – the ranger we run with is a beast. i guarantee she would outplay 2/3rds of anyone in this thread. guaranteed. the class may be kitten but to take an empty spot over any ranger is a pretty kitten kitten mode statement.

Warrior
Guardian
Mesmer
Engineers
Elementalist
Thief
Necro
Ranger

Warriors are PvE kings because of how imba their dps is. You want at least 1 Guardian in most dungeons, but you want several warriors in all dungeons.

Engineers are often underrated, but they are the best condition dealers in the game and can keep up more vulnerability stacks than anyone else. They also have the highest ranged dps when played right.

Necros are second to last simply because they are outdone on conditions by Engineers and Thiefs can do more damage than them, even if they are squishy.

I can just say that anyone saying Guardians and warriors are not miles ahead ANY other profession is just wrong withut even discussion.

Even ANET said it and you cannot clearly argue that given players with the same skill level, those 2 professions are just horribly OP…..

Or as anet says, other professions are UP comparing to guards and wars ….
Mesmers are imho the most overrated PvE profession….unless you need portal.

Said that, its better a good player with any profession rather than a BAD war or guardiand player….yet the same works for PvP etc….

Wow, I have no idea on which server you people are playing but you are most certainly freaking out our thief friend here.

OP, I have never turned down any party invite for the sake of profession, nor have I been turned down in any party, though my main is a necro, and my GF’s main is a ranger. There are elitist parties and players, but they remain a minority in game, at least on my european/french server. So don’t be afraid to play the profession you want, you’ll find parties anyway.

Dahkeus.8243:

Warriors are PvE kings because of how imba their dps is.

No. Just no.

The other guy got it right. Currently kings of PvE are guardians and mesmers. Just because so much of dungeon content designed around projectile reflection. Forget about cof snore-mode.

Warriors are just dps-class. You can easily replace warrior with any other profession. You will lose some speed, but will retain all the functionality.

Isslair.4908:

Dahkeus.8243:

Warriors are PvE kings because of how imba their dps is.

No. Just no.

The other guy got it right. Currently kings of PvE are guardians and mesmers. Just because so much of dungeon content designed around projectile reflection. Forget about cof snore-mode.

Warriors are just dps-class. You can easily replace warrior with any other profession. You will lose some speed, but will retain all the functionality.

Exactly. Depending on the encounter, projectile reflect >>>>>> 100B+WW. Negate incoming damage and deal damage at the same time? Yes, please!

Let see…
Guards and wars have short invulnerability skills.

So having OP damage helps getting rid of opponents before defenses go on CD.
See for example bloomtree, or lava elementals in Fotm.

See again last boss of uncategorized where 1 binding blade + 3 wars with 1HB clears the bosses even before 1st reflection skill fades….

Traslate that to ANY situation…..with any other class you have to stay MINUTES fighting a trash mob while exposed to other mobs Attacks….
With warriors few seconds you have suddenly less opponents….while having a good HP pool/armor.

That is why you see only guard and war parties not at cof but at fotm 40+

And i hope to see something done about it* because most players play pve and not pvp….yet pve is the most unbalanced across gamemodes.

Reflect damage is often risible……and no mesmer can keep it long enough to clear anything…….

*don t worry anet said guard and wars are fine but other professions are UP.

Another good way to sum this up is with an example. Take a person that is the top 1% at Playing a Ranger/Engineer/Necromancer compare the level of effort to performance ratio with an poor to average warrior and you will notice the problem.

There’s just no viable alternative to aoe-bursting things.

We can’t have party-wide perma protection. Not enough healing to counter damage. Long CD and short duration blocking skills.

Anet really focused on nerfing all defensive options, just to nerf bunkers in pvp. But as a result we have a really one-sided pve.

The best class for any dungeon is the one you enjoy playing the most. More than likely you know that class better than the others and you will probably use that class more effectively than ones you did not like. That’s why some people say this or that is better than this or that. Every class has its pro’s and con’s just knowing what to use where is the key.

Biohazard.4196:

Dub.1273:

Warriors are very useful everywhere, one guardian is very useful almost everywhere and one mesmer is useful almost everywhere. Situational Eles are very useful. Thieves are nice too but don’t bring much to the party in fights. Rangers, Engineers and Necros just suck. I’d rather go with an open spot than taking a ranger, anytime, everywhere.

You’d rather 4-man a dungeon than take a ranger? Do you think they actually have a net negative effect on the group?

Yes they do, or at least their pet does.

Last time I had a ranger in arah, his pet was healing lupi while only me and that ranger was left alive. It was impossible to deal enough damage to make lupi permanently stay in phase 3. Conclusion? Pets have negative dps.

haviz.1340:

Last time I had a ranger in arah, his pet was healing lupi while only me and that ranger was left alive. It was impossible to deal enough damage to make lupi permanently stay in phase 3. Conclusion? Pets have negative dps.

Had a great run with a ranger who was using GS on Lupi, downed only once and her pet was doing Search & Rescue on downed team mates a couple hours ago. Exceptional example that it is indeed possible to play ranger well.

I have a Guard, Necro, Ele and Mesmer and who I play depends on party set up. Also, I avoid LFG posts that go ‘Preferably mesmer/war/guard’ because that means you’re gonna be the carry. So, no. There’re sucky players for all classes. Admittedly, for some classes there are more room for mistakes. Don’t care what class you bring in to my party, as long as you play well.

You completely missed the point.

LordByron.8369:

That is why you see only guard and war parties not at cof but at fotm 40+.

I’ve always found high level FOTM groups to be less restrictive as long as you have enough guards. In contrast it’s always funny to see “no thief/necro/ranger” for low level fractals on gw2lfg. It’s the same story with AR: “At least 20 AR for level 18!”.

The less competent groups seem to be more restrictive on group setup and gear. It’s a warning signal to stay away from these guys.

Isslair.4908:

Dahkeus.8243:

Warriors are PvE kings because of how imba their dps is.

No. Just no.

The other guy got it right. Currently kings of PvE are guardians and mesmers. Just because so much of dungeon content designed around projectile reflection. Forget about cof snore-mode.

Warriors are just dps-class. You can easily replace warrior with any other profession. You will lose some speed, but will retain all the functionality.

Your wrong, the other guy is right. Warriors are kings of PvE because there isn’t energy or any system of attrition, so it’s based on how fast you can clear a room or kill a boss before they have a chance to unload their own offensive ability and overwhelm you. Since warriors are by far the best at raw dps and increasing the party’s ofensive ability, they cleary assume the dominant role. Warriors use supreme DPS to push the run faster by slaying bosses before they pose any threat at all.

In terms of profession roles, a guardian is only there to migitate as much damage as possible (projectile reflection, protection, virtues) so the warriors can more conveniently unleash their burst (100b, whirlwind attack) followed by vulnerability and high constant dps (axe/,mace). Mesmers are simply icing on the cake, they give extra projectile reflection, boons (especially Signet of Inspiration) and most importantly Timewarp to further push the warriors DPS.

In general, warriors are the base of every party and guardians and mesmers play a supportive role.

Iures.2894:

Isslair.4908:

Dahkeus.8243:

Warriors are PvE kings because of how imba their dps is.

No. Just no.

The other guy got it right. Currently kings of PvE are guardians and mesmers. Just because so much of dungeon content designed around projectile reflection. Forget about cof snore-mode.

Warriors are just dps-class. You can easily replace warrior with any other profession. You will lose some speed, but will retain all the functionality.

Exactly. Depending on the encounter, projectile reflect >>>>>> 100B+WW. Negate incoming damage and deal damage at the same time? Yes, please!

You’re missing the point. Yes, reflection is the best utility that you can bring to a group. That’s why you want a guardian and maybe a mesmer too. That’s 1-2 party spots…but for the other 3-4 spots, no other class compares to warriors.

Just because a warrior doesn’t do everything better than every other class doesn’t negate that they are the best at performing the most important role by a huge margin.

Dahkeus.8243:

Iures.2894:

Isslair.4908:

Dahkeus.8243:

Warriors are PvE kings because of how imba their dps is.

No. Just no.

The other guy got it right. Currently kings of PvE are guardians and mesmers. Just because so much of dungeon content designed around projectile reflection. Forget about cof snore-mode.

Warriors are just dps-class. You can easily replace warrior with any other profession. You will lose some speed, but will retain all the functionality.

Exactly. Depending on the encounter, projectile reflect >>>>>> 100B+WW. Negate incoming damage and deal damage at the same time? Yes, please!

You’re missing the point. Yes, reflection is the best utility that you can bring to a group. That’s why you want a guardian and maybe a mesmer too. That’s 1-2 party spots…but for the other 3-4 spots, no other class compares to warriors.

Just because a warrior doesn’t do everything better than every other class doesn’t negate that they are the best at performing the most important role by a huge margin.

I’d argue that if you’re bringing utility over straight DPS, you obviously consider utility to be the more important of the two roles. I’m not going to disagree that, once you have your utilities covered, you fill the rest of the spots with warriors. That’s pretty clearly the meta atm. No matter how easy a party of Mesmers and Guardians would make the harpy fractal, for example, that’s a war of attrition I’d rather avoid. That being said, the fact that warriors get bumped (or reduced slots, w/e) to bring in utility classes rather clearly demonstrates that they are not the most important pieces. Now, they are easily the most demanded class, simply because a given group will almost always need more DPS slots than utility slots, but I don’t believe that makes them the most important, as well.

jul.7602:

Warriors are kings of PvE because there isn’t energy or any system of attrition, so it’s based on how fast you can clear a room or kill a boss before they have a chance to unload their own offensive ability and overwhelm you.

That’s kinda like saying that dps-classes are kings of pve in trinity MMOs, and once you have tank and healer dps guys are best in slot. I don’t need to explain how wrong is that, do I?

Taking warriors as dps is just a question of comfort and speed. Taking guardian+mesmer is a question of making almost impossible fight trivial.

Isslair.4908:

jul.7602:

Warriors are kings of PvE because there isn’t energy or any system of attrition, so it’s based on how fast you can clear a room or kill a boss before they have a chance to unload their own offensive ability and overwhelm you.

That’s kinda like saying that dps-classes are kings of pve in trinity MMOs, and once you have tank and healer dps guys are best in slot. I don’t need to explain how wrong is that, do I?

Taking warriors as dps is just a question of comfort and speed. Taking guardian+mesmer is a question of making almost impossible fight trivial.

Bad comparison. A dps role is not immidiately related to the trinity system, guardians don’t fufill the tank role, and mesmers certainly don’t bring any type of healing.

Isslair.4908:

jul.7602:

Warriors are kings of PvE because there isn’t energy or any system of attrition, so it’s based on how fast you can clear a room or kill a boss before they have a chance to unload their own offensive ability and overwhelm you.

That’s kinda like saying that dps-classes are kings of pve in trinity MMOs, and once you have tank and healer dps guys are best in slot. I don’t need to explain how wrong is that, do I?

Taking warriors as dps is just a question of comfort and speed. Taking guardian+mesmer is a question of making almost impossible fight trivial.

What a stupid claim. No fight is impossible without a guardian or mesmer. Reflection is not mandatory, just like warrior’s vastly superior DPS is not mandatory.

You don’t see groups stacking guardians or mesmers the way they stack warriors. Warriors don’t have diminishing returns — other classes do.

Of course it exists. We can whine all day about how it’s not fair, or stupid, or how you don’t believe in it. At the end of the day, parties composed of the Big 3 classes are what produces results most consistently. What is stupid is following the conclusion as gospel without context. Every dungeon can be cleared without exploit by virtually any mix of classes and builds played by decent players who know the dungeon’s gimmick and if you boot a Necro to save 3 minutes on a run but wind up waiting 10 minutes to pick up a Guardian, you’ve lost 7 minutes.

Zenith.7301:

No fight is impossible without a guardian or mesmer.

Never said that.
But they do transfrom hard ranged dodge-everything-or-die-in-one-hit encounters into lol-I’ma-100blading-you-all-day melee ones.

warrior’s vastly superior DPS is not mandatory.

Duh.
That’s what I’m telling.
DPS role can be filled by any class, warriors just do it better.
But since we don’t have a hard DPS-races in GW2 it doesn’t matter all that much. Most pugs will wipe on trash mobs or hard bosses anyway, so trying to increase damage as much as possible have no effect on overall clear time.

You don’t see groups stacking guardians or mesmers the way they stack warriors.

First – no one stack warriors outside of cof. Get out of Fireheart Rise sometimes, willya.
Second – What I do see is groups refusing to start fractal run without a couple of guardians or meleeing lupi without guard+mesmer combo.

Isslair.4908:

But since we don’t have a hard DPS-races in GW2 it doesn’t matter all that much.

We might not have hard dps races but if I’m not mistaken if you burn down captain ashym fast enough he won’t grab fiery greatsword which arguably is the most powerful of his weapons.

What I do see is groups refusing to start fractal run without a couple of guardians or meleeing lupi without guard+mesmer combo.

Rather ironic you need projectile reflections for melee combat.

Isslair.4908:

First – no one stack warriors outside of cof.

please….
Fotm 38+, Arah

Not only they stack warriors but you start to see every day many ONLY war guard groups…..

Happened last 3 days i had to wait a lot to get a Group because i don t have an heavy profession.

I have being running dungeons with guildies using a mix of profession : warrior, elementalist, mesmer, thief and necro. Every profession can input a bit of help in a fight.
Doing sorrows’s embrace/dredge fractals with someone able to remove boons is a real pleasure. Having someone block/reflect the projectiles is important in many fights.

Warriors are direct damage machines. We have sometimes swapped the necro(condition damage build) for a warrior(zerker build), and you do feel a difference in damage.

Guardians are king at controlling the enemy damage. A group projectile reflection lasting 10s in grawl fractal ? Yes please !

Mesmer have many good utilities. Removing boons/conditions, reflecting projectiles, good survivability for a light armor class.

Elementalists have medium damage, and medium utility. They can help you in everything, from healing to control, damage, destroying projectiles.

Thieves have a good damage output, and can also be great for quickly getting down defiant stack (very useful for some bosses). They also have access to many blind abilities, smoke screens and group furtivity.

Necromancers have a lot of AOE effects and are master at conditions. Fear is a very nice tool and come be very useful when in sticky situations.

Engineers are quite like elementalists, a bit of everything.

Rangers, can’t say much never tried one in a dungeon !

Overall, yes you will probably do dungeons FASTER with warriors/guard/mesmers.
Overall, no you wall have no fun if you force yourself to play a class or force a profession onto other people.
You can do every content with every profession, some might have an easier life, others might have it harder. Player skill, focus and adaptation are sometimes more important than just a profession.
Asking a good ranger player to play a bad warrior “because moar damage” is a bad idea. Let him play as his good ranger because he will probably enjoy it more, be more useful, die less, and everyone will have a pleasant run. If you really value your run by the time you spend in a dungeon…I just don’t want to play with you! lol
Keep in mind that patches may come and change the meta.

haviz.1340:

if you burn down captain ashym fast enough he won’t grab fiery greatsword which arguably is the most powerful of his weapons.

It’s the NPCs who do the most damage there. Hence mesmer with TW makes whole fight a lot easier. Warbanner is always a plus – but its warrior’s utility, not dps that matters there.

Rather ironic you need projectile reflections for melee combat.

Why? You can be in melee range while protected by WoR and feedback. Without them you need perfect reflexes to dodge lupi aoe projectiles in melee.

LordByron.8369:

Fotm 38+, Arah
Not only they stack warriors but you start to see every day many ONLY war guard groups…..

I’m constantly doing fractals with necros, eles and thieves.
Also our guild party takes all kind of classes to arah when puging.
I dunno, I must be using some secret version of gw2lfg whithout warriors.

Nikaido.3457:

With strong enough dps you can just ignore things

When I see stuff like this I kinda doubt people really understand the mechanics of encounters and why things happen.
LOS stacking and aoe bursting can be done with any class, as long its zerk gear+dps spec. You still need to pay attention to red circles, one-hit killshots and 20 second knockdowns.
Guardians (aoe stability, tons of projectile reflection\absorption) and mesmers(mass invis, portals, moving mobs around without pulling aggro) oth allow the party to pretty much ignore some encounter mechanis, trivializing the content or just skip a chunk of dungeon. That is how you ignore things, strategy and dodging.

I can see why people willingly bring their warriors to party to speed things up for everyone. You know like some people actually respect other people and try to work for the team, instead of bringing some tanky condition ranger just “because I feel like playing ranger”.
Warriors are the best dps class, no arguing that. But it’s not warriors who break dungeons.

Nikaido.3457:

You still need to pay attention to red circles, one-hit killshots and 20 second knockdowns.

My point was that you can ignore the lesser mechanics completely because with good dps a battle won’t turn to cooldown attrition much. Not that you could ignore something like the nearly one shotting red circles.

Even with a guardian in the group you still have to dodge Alpha’s teeth of jormag. A guardian will not let you ignore the more important mechanics, aegis might block a few AoE but if you never dodge you’ll still end up dead.

Actually its the opposite.

line of warding….and 1HB
Binding blade, endure pain + 2-3 wars 1HB gets rid of anything.

Well come to the easiest method of making 90% of fights a cakewalk in any dungeon.

not to mention that most red circles are ranged.
Should we say how people play bloomhunger/lupicus melee?

Not to mention ressing skills and healing skills…..

It’s very obvious by this point we’ve got a guy downplaying the dominance of warriors because if I mained a warrior I’d love to keep the status quo as well.

It’s very simple. 100b needs a nerf. Warrior autoattacks on axe and greatsword need nerfs. Vulnerability and solo might stacking need a nerf. Spirit shield needs a hefty nerf in duration, and stand your ground needs a longer cooldown while wall of reflection needs to last less time.

Warrior banners should not be bringing buffs no other class can replace. Why are they the only class with a hefty 10% extra crit dmg group buff and primary stat buffs? Ranger spirits are a sad carcass by comparison.

Isslair.4908:

It’s the NPCs who do the most damage there. Hence mesmer with TW makes whole fight a lot easier. Warbanner is always a plus – but its warrior’s utility, not dps that matters there.

TW affects only 5 allies and it prioritizes players rather than npcs. So you’d have to place it either non centrically or start to range him if you really want npcs to get quickness.

Why? You can be in melee range while protected by WoR and feedback. Without them you need perfect reflexes to dodge lupi aoe projectiles in melee.

Precisely why it’s ironic. But you’re contradicting yourself. If you need perfect reflex, how can you place trust in some guy who is supposed to use a skill so your whole party won’t wipe instead of taking care of yourself?

People want projectiles reflections because they want to finish fight fast and have few attacks from lupi’s arsenal became trivial (which is why projectiles reflections needs to be nerfed) or they simply suck and can’t anticipate skill with 1s long wind-up.