Guild Wars 2

Hi all! In the Wiki,
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twilight_Arbor_(explorable)#Boss:_Nightmare_Tree_2

It lists down strategy #2, as to clear the front waves one at a time and do full range at Nightmare tree with one person standing in front.

The way it is written seems sketchy, and we have been doing almost exactly the same thing successfully before the TA F/U changes (just minus the 1500 range and 1 character 8 steps in front of the 1500 rangers).

I know everyone on Youtube and here in the forums are speedrunners and are casually running Mes/Guard/3 War or FGS eles but I prefer not to ask my group specifically for that.

I just wanted to avoid frustrations by having to do a redo and run strategy 3 (range kiting). We’re not organized enough for strategy 1 (full melee w/ reflects) and not everyone is geared for it.

We’re definitely not running 3w/1g/1m!

Is everyone geared for dodging?

Miaire.5468:

I know everyone on Youtube and here in the forums are speedrunners and are casually running Mes/Guard/3 War or FGS eles but I prefer not to ask my group specifically for that.

I just wanted to avoid frustrations by having to do a redo and run strategy 3 (range kiting). We’re not organized enough for strategy 1 (full melee w/ reflects) and not everyone is geared for it.

So you refuse to run better group compositions, you refuse to organize enough to chain reflections, you refuse to gear yourself properly. Tell me why you are entitled you 60 tokens again?

We do try to run better group compositions, and do try to organize enough, but it’s harsh to tell a friend no you have to do it this way else we won’t take you along.

I’m trying not to extend that level of elitism to friends you see, so I’m looking at alternative strategies that might work first, before forcing everyone to do it one particular way.

Miaire.5468:

I’m trying not to extend this level of elitism to friends.

The keyword!

I’m really not sure what elitism have to do with swaping classes.

Also, i’d rather teach my friends how to play properly than let’em fail.

Bad friends encourage friends to be bad players.

The guild wars 2 playerbase, ladies and gentlemen

So you won’t re-roll and you won’t use basic strats. Fine. Is it to much to ask, then, to have your buds dodge when the tree shakes to avoid the spider spawn? Is dodging out of the realm of possibility?

Miaire.5468:

We do try to run better group compositions, and do try to organize enough, but it’s harsh to tell a friend no you have to do it this way else we won’t take you along.

I’m trying not to extend that level of elitism to friends you see, so I’m looking at alternative strategies that might work first, before forcing everyone to do it one particular way.

This is clearly a trap so I forgive you if you don’t respond, but what is the normal group composition when you and your friends try to run this path?

Telling people when to dodge is possible, but it’s likely there are times where the dodge window will be missed.

Hopefully failing that won’t be the end of the run where we have to redo from the beginning.

I was thinking if the strats in the Wiki page are up to date, failing strat #2 will allow us to retry with strat #3 (maybe). Which doesn’t prove the same way for strat #1 (max dps/reflects) because the place will be littered by the other spiders that bypass reflects.

Speaking of group compositions, did anyone get round to doing that 3 necro 2 ranger run of TAFU?

Broadicea.8294:

This is clearly a trap so I forgive you if you don’t respond, but what is the normal group composition when you and your friends try to run this path?

We normally don’t run this path. I don’t particularly like anything from TA myself.
If we run TA now, we just do F/F and any composition works there.

I initially cleared this path before that particular dungeon patches that changed this in a pug that where we ranged the tree from 1200 range after clearing front spiders.

And from that time, F/U was the easiest path so my friends and I (when I have to join them), we just applied that same strat we learned from the pug. It’s long, it’s boring, but it gets the job done.

Now new guy comes a long, so we got to clear it again after patch.

Hes asking what classes you and your friends were using. If we know then we might be able to suggest extra utilities/tips that you didnt think of using.

@Miaire: Yes the range method still works. If you pug tafu, that is the method majority of pugs use currently. You just need to dodge and maybe dedicate 2 or 3 team mates to clear the spiders that do spawn.

I will still maintain that the most direct way is still meleeing the boss from the get go with high power gear and with reflection as support. Only thing you generally only have 1 shot at this.

Dodge the trees when it shakes. Bingo. I’m wondering if all the tactics with missile defense have just taught everyone to play this boss badly.

To be fair, the shaking thing ins’t something easy to get, when i first ran TAFU i had no idea that the shaking was tied to the spiders and had to hide myself on reflections. Which was totally my fault for not reading anything related first, but then again, most people doesn’t expect the shaking.

colesy.8490:

Speaking of group compositions, did anyone get round to doing that 3 necro 2 ranger run of TAFU?

I did a 1 ranger run.

colesy.8490:

Speaking of group compositions, did anyone get round to doing that 3 necro 2 ranger run of TAFU?

I did a one Necro run yesterday. The biggest problem with Necro is the lack of dagger cleave. Only hitting the tree once per swing makes necro DPS half that of anyone else in the party.

Could try rampager necro on the tree tbh.

Broadicea.8294:

The guild wars 2 playerbase, ladies and gentlemen

/clap

/clap

Broadicea.8294:

So you refuse to run better group compositions, you refuse to organize enough to chain reflections, you refuse to gear yourself properly. Tell me why you are entitled you 60 tokens again?

1. Because the dungeon content should be able to be done by any group composition. And not all players have alts (particularly of every class).

2. Because a group new to the dungeon might not know what to expect by the time they arrive at the boss, and the game should allow for newer players.

3. This dungeon is not Arah. It is a lower-level dungeon and should allow for a learning curve.

I could go on, but those answers should be enough for your out-of-hand dismissal. Reflections should not be required to finish a boss.

They aren’t required.

Clothes aren’t required.

Players that are willing to learn mechanics are.

azureai.9764:

Broadicea.8294:

So you refuse to run better group compositions, you refuse to organize enough to chain reflections, you refuse to gear yourself properly. Tell me why you are entitled you 60 tokens again?

1. Because the dungeon content should be able to be done by any group composition. And not all players have alts (particularly of every class).

2. Because a group new to the dungeon might not know what to expect by the time they arrive at the boss, and the game should allow for newer players.

3. This dungeon is not Arah. It is a lower-level dungeon and should allow for a learning curve.

I could go on, but those answers should be enough for your out-of-hand dismissal. Reflections should not be required to finish a boss.

1. But TA actually is, like pointed out earlier in this thread, just dodge the shake.
2-3. Trial and error, not sure why every single gw2 player thinks that the game itself can’t let’em fail.

Reflection is not required, btw. Also, you can use any kind of projectile defenses, not only reflect, and a lot of classes have group or area wide projectile defenses (thieves, engis, guardians, eles and mesmers if i’m not mistaken).
So, after reading this don’t you feel a bit… i don’t know, mistaken to say the least, about your opinion on tafu? If not, then i can’t be of any help at all, have a good day.

azureai.9764:

1. Because the dungeon content should be able to be done by any group composition. And not all players have alts (particularly of every class).

Besides the fact that it IS able to be done by any group composition, where do you get the idea that it “should?” Why “should” it? Because you want it to be so? Seriously, I want to know why it “should.” What is the intellectual justification of this ridiculous statement?

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

azureai.9764:

1. Because the dungeon content should be able to be done by any group composition. And not all players have alts (particularly of every class).

Besides the fact that it IS able to be done by any group composition, where do you get the idea that it “should?” Why “should” it? Because you want it to be so? Seriously, I want to know why it “should.” What is the intellectual justification of this ridiculous statement?

Because my mom said the Bible said so!

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

azureai.9764:

1. Because the dungeon content should be able to be done by any group composition. And not all players have alts (particularly of every class).

Besides the fact that it IS able to be done by any group composition, where do you get the idea that it “should?” Why “should” it? Because you want it to be so? Seriously, I want to know why it “should.” What is the intellectual justification of this ridiculous statement?

Well, this thread has degraded fast.

Content should be able to be done by any class composition, because that’s what the game promised. This isn’t 4-Warriors-and-a-Mesmer Wars. Sure, not every group composition is going to have an easy time of it, and some classes have access to skills that will make certain bosses easier. But that shouldn’t preclude a group of any class composition from doing the boss with a reasonable amount of work.

And the boss for F/U isn’t reasonable. Not for the level of the dungeon, not for the ridiculous difficulty spike it introduces at the end of an otherwise serviceable dungeon, and not for the adds that do not despawn if you fail to grasp to badly-animated mechanics of the fight on your first try.

Your comments above betray a shocking lack of empathy for your fellow players. Were you never new? And do you really look forward to the point where you’re de facto banned from content because of the class you rolled? That doesn’t at all sound like a game I want to play, nor is it what the developers envisioned when they were designing and promoting Guild Wars 2.

Vevina is harder than the tree

The devs intended explorable modes to be challenging endgame content. Only really the case for arah and that one encounter in TAFU. All classes can do the content they just need to adapt, something most people have a problem with doing.

ColinJohanson

We’ll be doing the same with the Gw2 explorable dungeons, our own internal testing teams and alpha test groups learned to beat them using a combination of player skill, synchronous builds, strong use of cross-profession combos, use of cooking/consumable buffs (these make a huge difference!) and well formed player tactics. By comparison, after having months to play the game and the time our alpha was complete, some of our better dungeon groups felt the explorable dungeons were too easy for launch, we decided not to make them any harder given the expected player skill on launch.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Do-NOT-nerf-please/first#post126835

Can anyone point out where Colin or any other dev ever said you’d be able to sleepwalk through DUNGEONS with any comp and any build you felt like.

ed: oh I forgot this from the same thread:

CJ

As for the question about PuG’s for explorable dungeons, we’ve said all along that explorable dungeons are intended for highly organized/skilled groups of players. That is absolutely the case

Broadicea.8294:

Can anyone point out where Colin or any other dev ever said you’d be able to sleepwalk through DUNGEONS with any comp and any build you felt like.

Your reductive response is neither cute nor helpful to the topic at hand. No one is asking for a sleepwalk. Or a cakewalk. Or even a runwaywalk.

Nowhere in those quotes does Colin say that a dungeon should somehow preclude a specific class composition. A team of skilled and organized players at level 55 of any class should be able to do this content – that is what people are asking for. And TA F/U does not reasonably provide that.

The higher level dungeons like Arah should be a higher difficulty, because level 80 players have access to all or most of their skills, have advanced experience, and have access to superior equipment that provide new tactics. Those should be the challenging end game for highly skilled players, and the rewards should be commensurate. But a level 55 dungeon should be geared toward a difficulty level appropriate for level 55 players, and not difficulty spike at the boss in a way that requires certain set ups of classes or skills players may not yet have access to.

I think that it would be unreasonable to design the dungeons for any group composition to complete in the exact same sense that it would be unreasonable to design the dungeons for only one group composition to complete.

They should be complete-able by an average group of players with a random assortment of classes. Once people know how to dodge the tree head shake, this is possible.

As far as the end boss in TA F/U, if you don’t want to reset the whole instance, you can pull groups of mobs away from the tree into the tunnel around the bend and kill them there, slowly clearing them out for another try. Just… dodge the green eggies that fly at you when the tree does his head shake.

azureai.9764:

Your comments above betray a shocking lack of empathy for your fellow players. Were you never new? And do you really look forward to the point where you’re de facto banned from content because of the class you rolled? That doesn’t at all sound like a game I want to play, nor is it what the developers envisioned when they were designing and promoting Guild Wars 2.

I was new, and you know what I did? I spent the time learning what was good and what works and doing those things. What I didn’t do was make BHB threads on the forums because I was having difficulty making a square peg fit neatly into a round hole.

So you’re right, I have no empathy for feel-bads who don’t put in time trying to adapt or learn when I put in that time.

How many TAFU threads have ended with the OP taking advice and returning triumphant after adopting better party comps, builds, and tactics? One?

Burn GW2 to the ground, salt the earth so nothing else ever grows there.

What party comp did you bring, anyway? We can start with the help there.

colesy.8490:

Speaking of group compositions, did anyone get round to doing that 3 necro 2 ranger run of TAFU?

3 Ranger and 2 Necro, actually, and if they tried it, they certainly didn’t post the video of it. I was the original issuer of the challenge, and am anxiously awaiting all of the “pro” trolls who make fun of anyone who posts anything about F/U to actually try it in earnest.

I don’t think it will happen though, they are too busy with all of the F/U google alerts for the forum.

Heck, I run this path everyday, I welcome 80s that actually bring a 1200+ range weapon (Point at guardian without scepter.) What u do is get someone with condition removal that knows how to dodge the tree immobile root attack to kite all the spider while attacking and running counter clock around the tree. Once all the spider are being kited, the rest of the party can range it from the narrow hallway without worries, and if they did somehow get aggro, they can run out of the room while u continue to kite and keeping the tree from reseting.

azureai.9764:

Content should be able to be done by any class composition, because that’s what the game promised. This isn’t 4-Warriors-and-a-Mesmer Wars.

4 warriors and a mesmer

Your comments above betray a shocking lack of empathy for your fellow players.

Empathy ? what is empathy? Can I eat it?

Heck, I run this path everyday, I welcome 80s that actually bring a 1200+ range weapon (Point at guardian without scepter.)

If you’re “pointing at guardians” for not ranging this boss you clearly should stop running this path. Having one guardian alone is enough to enable any group to full melee burst this thing down.

If you’re “pointing at guardians” for not ranging this boss you clearly should stop running this path. Having one guardian alone is enough to enable any group to full melee burst this thing down.

I said I welcome lvl 80, but not every1 is power build. If I c 2 guardian or mesmer + guardian, I would melee burst it down with reflection and soa, but the fail rate is high, second option is to range it down.

There are a lot of BHBs in this thread.

Thanks for all the feedback, I’ve gotten the response I need, which is, strategy 2 in the Wiki (pull+ranging) still works. All that’s left is for the one in a group to come online so we can get this over with, maybe some time this weekend.

I’m aware of the other strategies listed here in these thread, where max dps + reflect being optimal.
Unfortunately, organizing and build policing is not my line, so I will steer our strat to a more fail-safe method.

SundayTrash.9562:

I said I welcome lvl 80, but not every1 is power build.

What’s wrong with them?

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

SundayTrash.9562:

I said I welcome lvl 80, but not every1 is power build.

What’s wrong with them?

Nothing is wrong with them, u just can’t expect every pug to go power build.

Actually, that is what I expect. Thanks to the kick function, you should expect it too.

Strategy 2 from Wiki worked, but the person standing in front still has to do some dodging during shake. I dodged sideways to maintain aggro range so the tree doesn’t reset.

Rangers back at 1500 range didn’t have to do any dodging, just continually attack tree

Missing 1 dodge seem to spawn around 3-4 spiders. Often small ones, sometimes 1 Recluse. Near the end, all 3 of us non-rangers are in front ranging + dodging during shake.

I hope I can get them to try other strats with me, if someone decides to come back here.

Or you could have just melee’d, dodged the shakes and sat under the guardian’s wall of reflection and then shield of the avenger.

Or is that too elitist/good for you?

This was safe and easy, margin of error is larger. We would’ve done the optimal method if everyone could do it like that , sadly not everyone is specced for it, nor attentive enough to dodge properly all the time, so we had to do the alternative way.

You dont need to be specced for it. Just takes one guardian to chain WoR, shield, WoR.

So basically not everyone in your party is willing to pay attention and wants to just shut their brain off for an explorable dungeon which is meant to be for coordinated players.

Sigh.

Literally all you have to do is pay attenion, good lord.