Guild Wars 2

Been reading some stuff on reddit and the new meta build for guards…. seems like most agree on guards having 3rd highest dps. Any thoughts from experienced raid-ers?

The stuff you were reading on reddit came from experienced raiders.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/vC-6-man-Sabetha

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Actual-DPS-Comparison-between-classes

They we’re always viable. People were just incredibly ignorant and thinking: "if this “pro-group” killed the bosses with this group set up, we don’t want classes that they didn’t use!"

Bringing guardian to raids actually makes it more comfortable. Healer can’t heal you because he just used his burst heal skills? Guardian can help. Revenant can’t keep up the protection? Guardian can help. Crap I’ll die if I get hit by the next attack. Guardian is here with a bit of aegis!

People just think that guardian is not useful because other classes can also do what they do. But what they forget is that guardian is really good in filling the gaps when someone screws something up, while doing good dps.

Nandor The Stampede.1593:

Been reading some stuff on reddit and the new meta build for guards…. seems like most agree on guards having 3rd highest dps. Any thoughts from experienced raid-ers?

Hey I’m the guardian from the 6 man, also one those people (Snow Crows Thor, metabattle and many more) who claimed that guardian has the potential to be 3rd highest dps in raids (perfect circumstances).

Guardian provides high dps and a lot of support to your team. perma protection + heal from your symbols are huge. Also for VG it can be helpful for the seeker control.

I got kicked a lot from pug groubs taking a guardian, i just hope they rethink about their attitude now. If you have more questions, feel free to ask me.

Few things to note

1: The dps they measured was with hammer and all the symbol traits with everything best in slot and a team that boosted it pretty much perfectly (full might stacks, perma fury, pretty much constant quickness as well as many other buffs)

2: Due to it relying so much on symbols any movement on the targets end can hurt your dps output quite a bit because symbols are stationary.

3: Due to it using the hammer it means you basically just sit there and auto attack which without (and even with) constant quickness is ungodly slow and boring.

So yes its nice to have a guardian build that is good for raids, lets just hope they spice the guardian hammer up a bit without hurting the over all DPS potential because its very slow and boring.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Few things to note

1: The dps they measured was with hammer and all the symbol traits with everything best in slot and a team that boosted it pretty much perfectly (full might stacks, perma fury, pretty much constant quickness as well as many other buffs)

2: Due to it relying so much on symbols any movement on the targets end can hurt your dps output quite a bit because symbols are stationary.

3: Due to it using the hammer it means you basically just sit there and auto attack which without (and even with) constant quickness is ungodly slow and boring.

So yes its nice to have a guardian build that is good for raids, lets just hope they spice the guardian hammer up a bit without hurting the over all DPS potential because its very slow and boring.

You are right, those were perfect circumstances. But VG and Gorseval shoudlnt move too much. If they run around like crazy you group is doing something wrong.
True the gameplay is not super exciting i guess, but there is nothing you can do about it

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

2: Due to it relying so much on symbols any movement on the targets end can hurt your dps output quite a bit because symbols are stationary.
.

It bothers me a little when I see this argument, because while it’s true, it’s also a factor that affects the majority of classes in GW2. If a boss starts moving, DPS is gonna start dropping off in most cases.

You can hypothesize that the damage lost will be worse for a symbols focused guardian than an alternate build/class, while taking into account whatever backup weapon the guardian may be using, but it’s the kind of thing you need to prove with testing and data if you want to want to make a proper point.

thanks for replies guys, you’re awesome.

Would Hammer Guardian’s DPS ranking drop if there were no quickness for the duration? Cause I’m thinking of gearing out my guardian as well for fractals (pugging mostly)

SirPrizeBartSachs.4670:

thinking of gearing out my guardian as well for fractals (pugging mostly)

well played guards make fractal pugs a breeze, top dps or not. especially if you can bring along an experienced friend playing something else that is useful.

key word is well played. know your aegis timings, know which utilities to bring to each fight. and dont be afraid to ask for advice if youre unsure, cuz your allies dont wanna wipe and someone is bound to know a thing or two even if they dont play your class (for example i know most guard utility setups but i only play engi, because you used to have to know how to get your pug group past cliffside and grawl. now you can just pick another island).

SirPrizeBartSachs.4670:

Would Hammer Guardian’s DPS ranking drop if there were no quickness for the duration? Cause I’m thinking of gearing out my guardian as well for fractals (pugging mostly)

If you’re in a proper group that can properly dps then gs / lb build can reach up to ~40k dps for few secs then goes under hammer dps after (this assumes fully buffed).
Basically it’s a burst build that you mix with the +50% dmg from break bar.
If fight is long and or low dps group then stick to hammer.
Sooo, in your case, yes stick to hammer for fractals.

I was one that highly doudt that 3rd best dps position for the Hammer build, but after testing myself and checking more video I have to admit defeat.

The Guardian hammer really have the 3rd best dps behind Thief and Tempest. Of course we are talking about a dps with full buff, but we compare it to the dps of other profession with full buff too, so it’s a not really important. Yes some buff could improve the Guardian dps than other profession, but we usually talk about that for alacrity and this buff almost doesn’t affect at al the guardian.

And yes, there is some weakness to that dps because bosses can move out of symbol and a dodge at the wrong time can interrupt the auto-attack chain, dropping the dps significantly. But the length of the fight drop the importance of this factor. Interrupting 4 or 5 auto-attack over 8-9 min isn’t the same as interrupting 1 auto-chain in a 30sec fight like it was in dungeon.

We also have to think about the problem other profession have. In 4th and 5th position in term of dps, we have the condi engineer and reaper. The first one have obviously the hardest rotation of the game so it’s easy to drop in dps with that one. The Reaper have an easy rotation, not really affected as much as the guardian by a dodge at the wrong time, but it need a second reaper to bounce off epidemic on alts, it also need a 2min ramp up time to get a second bunch of Horror from lichs and enough heals to keep those horrors alive.

So in the end, even without all buffs and with some problem with symbol and dodge, i can’t see how the engineer and reaper can have bigger dps in the same situation.

Two other advance of the guardian is the perma protection, which the Herald can’t provide anymore without dropping his dps a bit more than before and the CC it can provide on his first weapon set.

icewyrm.5038:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

2: Due to it relying so much on symbols any movement on the targets end can hurt your dps output quite a bit because symbols are stationary.
.

It bothers me a little when I see this argument, because while it’s true, it’s also a factor that affects the majority of classes in GW2. If a boss starts moving, DPS is gonna start dropping off in most cases.

You can hypothesize that the damage lost will be worse for a symbols focused guardian than an alternate build/class, while taking into account whatever backup weapon the guardian may be using, but it’s the kind of thing you need to prove with testing and data if you want to want to make a proper point.

Movement hurts guardian a LOT more than any other class, that’s just an obvious consequence of the build. Now, testing could be done to see exactly how much dps is lost, but its clear even without testing that it wont be anywhere close to other classes on a boss like vale guardian.

Thaddeus.4891:

a dodge at the wrong time can interrupt the auto-attack chain, dropping the dps significantly.

nah, you can dodge and then resume the chain where you left off

Tempest, on the other hand, the #1 dps class, does not have that luxury
dodge during an overload, and dps goes down the drain

Conner.5803:

They we’re always viable. People were just incredibly ignorant and thinking: "if this “pro-group” killed the bosses with this group set up, we don’t want classes that they didn’t use!"

Bringing guardian to raids actually makes it more comfortable. Healer can’t heal you because he just used his burst heal skills? Guardian can help. Revenant can’t keep up the protection? Guardian can help. Crap I’ll die if I get hit by the next attack. Guardian is here with a bit of aegis!

People just think that guardian is not useful because other classes can also do what they do. But what they forget is that guardian is really good in filling the gaps when someone screws something up, while doing good dps.

The actual reason is the missing dps meter.

reikken.4961:

Thaddeus.4891:

a dodge at the wrong time can interrupt the auto-attack chain, dropping the dps significantly.

nah, you can dodge and then resume the chain where you left off

Tempest, on the other hand, the #1 dps class, does not have that luxury
dodge during an overload, and dps goes down the drain

There are a lot of skills that ele/tempest with staff can waste if they dodge at the wrong time and I think it’s way more annoying/handicapping than others class.

randomguy.1283:

Movement hurts guardian a LOT more than any other class, that’s just an obvious consequence of the build. Now, testing could be done to see exactly how much dps is lost, but its clear even without testing that it wont be anywhere close to other classes on a boss like vale guardian.

Is it that obvious without testing though? A condi engie will lose like half of his DPS if VG walks out of his firefields just when they’ve been cast. An ele will lose huge amounts of damage if he walks out of lava fonts, glyph of storm, and meteor shower. A condi ranger will lose a bunch of damage if VG walks out of the traps early.

There’s plenty more examples but I’m sure you get the picture. This kind of thing happens all the time in VG’s movement phases as I’m sure you know already, so I think testing isn’t as dispensable as you’ve implied in this case.