Guild Wars 2

Minion of Vey.4398:

Nah, only time I kick people is if they go afk too long or lose link.

Sometimes OTHER people in the group didn’t want spy kits, so we didn’t use them. Obviously spy kits are the fastest way, it’s a freebie. But it’s not a big deal not using them either.

Err yes it WAS a big deal using the spy kits. And sorry if I want to make fights / puzzle / encounter easier by using a consumable and some elitists who don’t and hates them (scroll up thread for special kitten who kicks people from party from using them). I am not about to play with some kitten who insists on doing their own way, much less obey their directive, which is in fact less efficient based on nothing but virtual elitism.

If you don’t want to do an exploit / glitch (not a use of a consumable to non elitists) and party is perfectly capable of doing an encounter and the time difference is not huge like 20 minutes or more, fair enough. Even then it would be a suggestion to a group and not “ANET please ban these exploiters” or “I must stick to my virtual gaming ethics” etc.

Ropes.8690:

Dredge fractal is still very doable.

Keep in mind that fractal difficulty level is determined by the party. People are not forced to play fractals 30+, nor is it necessary to access any special content. Rings and fractal weapons are still obtainable at 20. With that said, it is supposed to be a challenge whenever you choose a higher difficulty and it often times requires different strategies to overcome the new challenge.

Yes but it is just lvl 30. Why is there a sudden large skill spike at the next tier? If you want people to continue to play fractals and who want to progress especially for casual players and PUGs in the hope of better loot? There is a noticeable difference in the average loot drops and chests between lvl 10 and lvl 30, at least for me. I mentioned b4 in an earlier post the problem with fracts is that it is a 3/4 stage dungeon. You may have spent hours prior to this with a PUG that is comfortable with the other fracts (say Cliffside or Lava shaman even) and u hit this brick wall.

Some people will have you believe that they will fail rarely in PUGs at dredge without spy kits / alt switching to thiefs and guardians (>lvl 30), I say bullkitten.

I’m just going to pop in and say that yes, level 48 Dredge is doable post-patch, it just takes so much time that my group and I can do CoF 1, 2, and 3 without skipping a single mob faster. It is a mind-numbing experience filled with a few hundred level 82 Dredge mobs immune to blind with permanent protection and regeneration and intense dps. This fractal is heavily overtuned without Spy Kits to help out.

BandAid.9720:

Maybe your group wasn’t skilled enough
I did it yesterday lvl 34 at first attempt .

He’s the epitome of skilled. If he has a hard time, god smite everyone that can do it easily. If you disagree with his opinions, you’re an elitist and therefore your opinion is invalid.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m just going to pop in and say that yes, level 48 Dredge is doable post-patch, it just takes so much time that my group and I can do CoF 1, 2, and 3 without skipping a single mob faster. It is a mind-numbing experience filled with a few hundred level 82 Dredge mobs immune to blind with permanent protection and regeneration and intense dps. This fractal is heavily overtuned without Spy Kits to help out.

Red firey kitty, it was overtuned with spy kits.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m just going to pop in and say that yes, level 48 Dredge is doable post-patch, it just takes so much time that my group and I can do CoF 1, 2, and 3 without skipping a single mob faster. It is a mind-numbing experience filled with a few hundred level 82 Dredge mobs immune to blind with permanent protection and regeneration and intense dps. This fractal is heavily overtuned without Spy Kits to help out.

Overtuned, most likely, but still possible. To make numerous posts about how spykits are the only way to do something is just outright silly. (not referring to you)

Ioflux.4369:

Overtuned, most likely, but still possible. To make numerous posts about how spykits are the only way to do something is just outright silly. (not referring to you)

Spykits arent the only way to do something. Neither is tanking on the button. And some people are in denial, posting numerous posts to affirm their denial.

Group as in PUG? Congrats.

Lanser.8520:

Red firey kitty, it was overtuned with spy kits.

Definitely. Spy Kits weren’t the only way to do it, but they made the length of the fractal tolerable. That’s the key point to take away from the discussion. At least with Spy Kits you could ignore something like 120 Dredge spawns, and get the thing done in a much more manageable time frame. Now, however, you’re really just out of luck.

High lvl it becomes a pain in the kitten anet keeps saying you wont get punished playing with friends but you DO. without certain classes its not possible, as a thief I can say sure, dredge part is easy for me. With my warrior its a pain in the kitten

But I do not have 2 hours a day for 1 bloody dungeon that has a little above average loot. I mean you give dungeons a level below 80 yet every new player gets blocked from joining dungeons, gets bored and leaves the game.

Old players just farm it for loot or tokens, and the 1 thing that does have some challenge level (fractals, each level a bit harder) gets ruined because you make them 2 random and hard and they take 2 long. Ascalon, water fractal and swamp can be done so fast, and cliffside, volcanic and dredge just take ages and ruin the time you have to spend on it.

Instead of fixing the bugs and exploits (sure needs a fix at some point, but first get the dungeon to be enjoyable)! 2 hours in there with pugs and then getting kicked for example, not gaining a level, is 2 hours of fun down the drain.

Mini, I say cliffside is not too bad (30 mins on 1 fractal I think is expected). But I agree with you there – 2 hours for F30 only gets you around 2-4 gold per run. Considering most farming gets you around 3-4 gold per hour fractals aren’t really worth the time.

I do feel doing some of the fractals is a waste of time – like snowblind which isn’t too hard but doesn’t have many good drops. Heck I even feel that swamp is a somewhat a waste due to only facing a puzzle at the beginning and a boss after that. Bottom line is if we are allowed to choose, I’d pick Ascalon 3x every fractal run.

VoxShatterfall.5470:

Mini, I say cliffside is not too bad (30 mins on 1 fractal I think is expected). But I agree with you there – 2 hours for F30 only gets you around 2-4 gold per run. Considering most farming gets you around 3-4 gold per hour fractals aren’t really worth the time.

I do feel doing some of the fractals is a waste of time – like snowblind which isn’t too hard but doesn’t have many good drops. Heck I even feel that swamp is a somewhat a waste due to only facing a puzzle at the beginning and a boss after that. Bottom line is if we are allowed to choose, I’d pick Ascalon 3x every fractal run.

Snowblind is still faster than cliffside and much easier. As for loot drops, lol @ Cliffside. Even Volcanic is faster than cliffside and u get grawl loot (only thing is that people complain about the legendary shaman).

I would agree with Ascalonian x3 if they fix the FPS issue. Believe it or not I prefer Dredge loot.

Did it yesterday at lv 38. Group wiped first time because I couldn’t convince them to just clear it. Second time they listened and it went off without an issue.

VoxShatterfall.5470:

Mini, I say cliffside is not too bad (30 mins on 1 fractal I think is expected). But I agree with you there – 2 hours for F30 only gets you around 2-4 gold per run. Considering most farming gets you around 3-4 gold per hour fractals aren’t really worth the time.

I do feel doing some of the fractals is a waste of time – like snowblind which isn’t too hard but doesn’t have many good drops. Heck I even feel that swamp is a somewhat a waste due to only facing a puzzle at the beginning and a boss after that. Bottom line is if we are allowed to choose, I’d pick Ascalon 3x every fractal run.

+1 for ascalon 3x

spykits OR class requirement were already a BAD design….

Now is worse…

People that keeps defending this will be here when they will prevent players to “die on buttons”.

AS i told already when people said “use spykits” in the past….

If you are saying its a good design having:
-players to die
-the necessity of a skill accessible only to one class (mesmer won t have enough inv uptime for sure)

Then you are just wrong.

I don t want spykits back, i want this part fixed asap….also i think they should stop removing workaround to their errors without before fixing the source of the problem….

There is no skill in logging a thief.
There is no skill in dying on buttons

I still expect to see a vid of this done at lvl 30 without thief/guardians and warriors….because gating content to classes is even worse than gating it with equip.

I love it when people say they cleared lvl 38 post patch dredge but never say what their party composition is or whether they were in a PUG.

SteelpedHat, did your guys tank at the button whilst clearing everything? Would say this is more difficult or less difficult than Lava Shaman at the same level?

LordByron.8369:

spykits OR class requirement were already a BAD design….
I still expect to see a vid of this done at lvl 30 without thief/guardians and warriors….because gating content to classes is even worse than gating it with equip.

I mean the elitists should show off their skills to everyone. No need to nerf so hard, 5 warrior party clearing this would be pretty epic to me. Endure Pain buys you 5s, so shouldn’t be that hard right? Vengeance would work well too.

Hmm, maybe lvl 30 or lvl 38 is too easy though.

just cleared dredge level 38, our composition was Guardian, Warrior, Warrior, Thief, Necro. The thief was actually a party members alt who started as a warrior but decided to get his thief in after two wipes.

Our plan was to get two people on the switches and the thief was going to Toss shadows refuge on the warrior once his spy kit was close to running out, I as the guardian was going to run interference. (i didn’t make the plan, don’t shoot me)

This was a pug so unfortunately plans don’t work out half the time; the thief died right away in the room, one warrior died on one button and the necro died on the other (they didn’t die right away obviously; they were maybe downed 8 seconds after standing on the buttons). During this time the last warrior made a bee line for the panel and I as the guardian ran interference; I “tanked” the mobs closest to the panel while he went for the panel, once the button sacrifices died all the dredge went for me; in the end I survived long enough for him to finish but I was inevitably downed and died. The warrior on the panel did survive though and ran out safely.

Is it doable? yeah. Is it fun and strategic? Heck no; I as a guardian with over 3k armor and rockin healing could only survive so long with dodging, SoA and my heals. I don’t see how any squishier class that wears light or medium armor (even balanced damage based warriors) are going to survive that dredge onslaught.

Some aspects of fractals need to be tweaked. This was a good guinea pig dungeon for A-Net to create but they need to work on it some more not just dredge but other fracs as well; and if you’re reading this A-Net add the new ascended items to the fractal vendor already for effing sake; jeeez, seriously…

Engi might be able to to do it. If you drop an Elixir X followed by U? You could even begin with X, which gives a minimum of 15secs stability then a Spykit for 10 secs

The anger is strong in this thread. And with good reason. If I post anything else it will just be misunderstood so GG moving on.

Zinkey.6983:

Writetyper.1985:

You have 5 people.

1 on each button.

1 protecting each person on the button.

1 on the door.

It’s a sad day when people complain that something is too hard because they have to do it legitimately now. Whatever happened to playing games for challenge instead of for mindless farming?

Preach it brother.

Add me in-game, I would like to play normally for a change !

no vid yet?

forgive me if i think that 2 players with 1 standing still won t make it against 6 dredge.

Only think i can say is either you have one of the OP PvE classes, or you are on a low difficulty level.

Till 16 i can survive….somehow. but at 30+? my 10 second invulnerability is just worthless.
I need invulnerability skills just to get to the button, figure how easy can be standing still with 1 players defending ._.

Infact no vids yet to prove its doable without classes requirements…..

What are you talking about, didn’t use kits until high levels like 30s 40s, and even then started to use them out of convenience and not because it was impossible,

lets see facts:

1) guardian player pve is easy mode….everybody knows that, the amount of defensive skills and uptime is unpaired…(may we have some PvE balance one day?so you get rid of 80% players asking for hard mode)

2) lvl 30 dredge takes away more than 50% of your health with 1 hit more if you are a dps or balanced.

3) there are 6-7 dredge per room

now i know you are accustomed to facerolling PvE content with a profession known as easy mode….but you can just show or reliable explain how 2 players can survive a room of dregde:

-being able to do even other content (i.e. not aving to switch char because next stage you get grawl and you lack DPS for shaman part).
-not using other discutible strategies (like dying on switches that is the same that using spykits pre patch).
-with a tactic that ANY profession has access to?

That would be more helping than “i m a pro i can do anything trust me on my word!”

thank you

P.S. and don t tell me you do it with other classes…..vid or didn t happen (you could use as well 2 thieves or other shady tactics).

sub 30 dredge what you can do is have someone die on each side to hold the doors open, then the rest of the group clear one side completely, the other side will not agro if ur smart about it and you can use the switch. after 30 the mobs hit really hard.

Lazarou.3745:

sub 30 dredge what you can do is have someone die on each side to hold the doors open,

seems you didn t read a thing.

I’ll help you:
3 month ago i reported issues with this stage.
Was answered “use spykits” by people (actually was L2p use spykits and i said it was just bad to be forced to use consumables)

Dying on switch=using spykits

One day will be fixed

Try again.

Also P.S. i really think they need to retool this whole fractal. it was way to hard past 30 without a guardian. Everything just hits way to hard.

umm, 3 ppl can easily clear out half the mobs, and i said sub 30. I havnt done this fractal past 30 successfully yet.

Necro on console, plague+F, win.

make thief just for this people if u want the part easy:
After the part is done u can go back on your original character, see it as swapping some skills in your build to solve the problem.

This is most likely the easiest solution now to do the encounter but u need alt as thief for shadow refuge.

…I didn’t even know you could skip the button / gate section.. my guild has been doing it the normal way the whole time. sure, it’s a challenge, but it’s easily doable. just takes communication.

I hate that fractal anyway. running around backwards for 15 minutes is horrible.

Zogyark.4597:

Necro on console, plague+F, win.

I guess this would work with any sufficiently-long elite transformation that gives stability.

Easy fix, bring a tank thief with Shadow Refuge.

Heres the dungeon build I use, Raynas set runes of the monk 4 kenshis wing daggers two of which have sigils of leeching

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlcmiPXeS6E+5EB3DjiUn6V4rdPuqWrKA;TsAZUCokQpiSBFlXGvEeZ9y5l0LA

I get the impression that Anets idea of good game design is: “Here is a challenge, now beat it how WE want you to beat it.” while I think that “Here is a challenge, beat it however you like” is a much better design approach.

OFFTOPIC:
It’s the same with the once per day chests. That is Anet saying: “Play the game like this or you don’t get loot.” Anet stop harassing and annoying the players!

Kashrlyyk.5364:

I get the impression that Anets idea of good game design is: “Here is a challenge, now beat it how WE want you to beat it.” while I think that “Here is a challenge, beat it however you like” is a much better design approach.

OFFTOPIC:
It’s the same with the once per day chests. That is Anet saying: “Play the game like this or you don’t get loot.” Anet stop harassing and annoying the players!

You still have the second option, but they reduced the effectiveness of certain overpowered cheesy items that people were relying on.

Unfortunately, team class make-up is more important than ever now for high levels. Not only do you need 1-2 Guardians for fractals like the Grawl fractal, you need Thieves (at a minimum maxed that you can switch to mid-fractal) for the Dredge fractal.

Just wanted to chime in
I did dredge yesterday on lv 48 no problem
Had Guard, War, Ranger, Ranger, Ele
we had the 2 rangers die on the button
The guard and warrior ran in and got all the aggro and kited around while the ele did the control panel… easy

I think the thread got sidetracked… The switch room isn’t even the worst part of the dungeon. The hordes of little kitteners that are immune to blind and spam CC like crazy is. As a guardian I absolutely loathe this fractal. Truly mindnumbling experience of never ending stream of daze. And they made it worse by nerfing the kitten out of the Shield of Avenger in the previous patch.

Trollhammer.7439:

I think the thread got sidetracked… The switch room isn’t even the worst part of the dungeon. The hordes of little kitteners that are immune to blind and spam CC like crazy is. As a guardian I absolutely loathe this fractal. Truly mindnumbling experience of never ending stream of daze. And they made it worse by nerfing the kitten out of the Shield of Avenger in the previous patch.

The room with the Champion is the worst in this dungeon. It has turned into a massive time sink where you wail on one boss for 10 minutes and then wail on his adds for 10 more (at 48). Everything else can be done with a good group without invisibility, but also with a lot of time and death.

Overall, it becomes more tedious than it needs to be, and eliminating as much tediousness as possible is the goal for players doing fractals. I dont care if I get 50 miners bags if it takes an hour to get through. Its too long and needs to be rebalanced.

Good rule of thumb…

Before you make a forum post about something being “impossible” stop…
1. think about it
2. then think about it again
3. then don’t make the post

Zinkey.6983:

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Renegade.6325:

Or consider a new strategy.

There is no way of doing the control panel without you being hit, there is no way to survive on the buttons long enough to distract them from the panel person.

The whole game is based on dodging but then punishes you for dodging by closing the door.

Not true. Entirely possible to do dredge without spy kits.

I’ve never even thought of using a spy kit and have never once failed that fractal…..Not saying it’s always easy – it’s not – but it’s definitely doable. Two people on the switches, two people kiting and the other one on the panel…….works most of the time for us.

So there you have it folks, two entirely different tactics that don’t require players cheese the encounter – which is good since Anet modified the item to stop cheesing it.

Working as intended, adapting is part of MMO life.

You can still use Ash Kits. Just be smart about it. You don’t need more than 1 to do the gearbox if your team uses its brains.

Go read all my posts on spy kits before you belittle me by saying working as intended. You are belittling me. I strongly suggest you lock all these threads, because nothing good can come of it, just more condescending provocation.

I am not belittling you – we are just stating OUR opinons too, freedom to speak comes with freedom to respond.

The developer did in fact, through action, imply they did not want a tactic/strat to be used – there are two other viable options that were not targetted by the dev that are still viable.

I get that there are some disappointed people (mainly the ones who will now be afflicted by players who don’t know the working strats), but really the devs patched an exploit of sorts – they didn’t intend for that workaround clearly.

Working as intended…. now.

I was wondering how it would go after the patch but it went ok. Just did it earlier at lvl 36. Group was two warriors, two guardians and one elem. It took 2 or 3 tries. We had one on each button and two kitting mobs. Elem was the one who opened the door and he entered the room last to avoid taking aggro on any mob. Only one person dead. I guess we could have done better but it was not as bad as what I thought. Still we had 4 heavy char so I guess it helps too.
To be honest I’m quite happy they patched the spy kit. I was using them too but it’s true that it was too easy this way and involved no skill at all except knowing how to count 10s in your head. I hope they will get rid of the other exploits too.

Freedom includes playing how I used to, if I choose. Only now I can’t choose. You are right in that I am disappointed. It has affected me and made a very negative impact this week.

I don’t see how I am exploiting anyone by playing a game that I enjoy. Emergent gameplay like the kind we had from the spy kits should be embraced. A different smarter way to play the game, without dying unnecessarily.

If it was as intended those dredge in the cage would actually drop loot. Then you can bet I would have insisted on collecting instead of using the spy kit, and we would not be posting about this. Don’t pull the wool over my eyes, please.

As for other exploits, Arah and the health bar of those nutty mobs seems to be a huge exploit on the goodwill of the player. What are they 3x more powerful than in any other dungeon. Story aside, I have avoided that dungeon and not complained. Until now.

Folk.2093:

yarpen.1364:

SteepledHat.1345:

I predict an increase in LFXM FotM 30+ daily HEAVIES ONLY

more like
lf1 thief

even the thief can’t do it all in stealth; if i remember right using any stealth ability while on the control panel interrupts it.

Using skills interrupts it, you are right, but you can stack stealth before pressing f and you have enough time, it works, i did it, hide in shadows the sr and then blindng powder, i also had the trait that makes stealth last 1 more sec. But you dont have time for mistakes xD I did it on last sec. It was a lv 40+ fotm, i think it was 46 or 48 don t remember.

I don’t get the complaints. Relying on consumables to begin with is downright lazy.

It IS doable without gimmicky “free pass” kits. But if you insist on using stealth to bypass everything, bring someone that can give you stealth.

Auesis.7301:

I don’t get the complaints. Relying on consumables to begin with is downright lazy.

It IS doable without gimmicky “free pass” kits. But if you insist on using stealth to bypass everything, bring someone that can give you stealth.

seems people are still asking vid to show your pro groups doing that without skills available to only few classes…

People explained why with FACTS (see damage).

We don t care you can do it.
We care that if any profession should do any role, but you are then forced to rely on a guardian for tanking/CC or a thief for stealth, you have just betrayed your design principles and made a mistake.

Btw yet any vid with a strategy available to every profession….

We have an issue we don t want to know if you are good at playing or not…nobody cares really…
We want to have a solution to not kill “pug” (as elitist seems to call random groups*) runs.

• funny thing that gw2 seems the first mmorpg that push you to avoid players you don t know ._. and rely on a fixed Group…..basically the opposite of what a mmorpg is.

I liked fractals only with pugs…..
Even low level with pugs require more skill because you don t limit to repeat the same gimmicks from lvl 16 to 80….

You have to adapt to the Group and situation…..
Doing the same with the same Group becomes just another repetitive task like cof, shelter & co.

1 on each button
1 pressing button
2 that get all aggro and run circles in the room…
I can’t believe people never tried to do dredge without spykits..

Also kill the 2 veterans or more in later levels before you go in the room will help a lot