They nerfing instanced content to get people into open world champ trains or ls.
FG champ train, IIRC is 6 champs every 8 min, ~45 champs an hour. I think most people would take 45 champ bags over 40-50 miners bags, 2 champ bags and a chest (I think the end guy gives a champ bag).
It’s the same at the same difficulty level as it was before. The only thing that was changed is that now the exploiters actually have to do the simple mechanics of the gates/floor panels instead of bypass them completely to get to the final cage. For those that do it the correct way, they would not notice anything different.
It’s like some people can’t do it without exploiting. …
It’s just disproportionally long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.
But who decided to make dredge the most annoying enemy ever. Leave the fractals as is, but remove the endless spawning of them in certain spots, tone down the stupid protection they have, and let us blind them!
Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand
It’s like some people can’t do it without exploiting. …
It’s just disproportionately long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.
But who decided to make dredge the most annoying enemy ever. Leave the fractals as is, but remove the endless spawning of them in certain spots, tone down the stupid protection they have, and let us blind them!
^ Most logical conclusion right here. Especially, “It’s just disproportionately long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.”
Actually had a guild mate warp through the bottom of the cage room. They didn’t use to knock you off of the plates on the floor, now when you die the plate doesn’t stay down. That would be fine to me and mechanically sound if ArenaNet didn’t explicitly state that they were fixing the fractal and toning down the length of it. Not only did they make it longer, they made it more annoying and have said nary a word about it. It’s super frustrating and it needs to be addressed on the forums and it needs to be fixed in game even more.
Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall
wait, what happened?
a few months ago, they said they closed the back doors into that cage with buttons and switch. They didn’t.
Did they finally close all the back doors? (I currently know of 2 that work, one that worked in the past but I haven’t tried in a while)
I wish they decreased the spawn rate of dredge in there… from 0 delay to at least 10 second delay.
It’s like some people can’t do it without exploiting. …
It’s just disproportionately long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.
But who decided to make dredge the most annoying enemy ever. Leave the fractals as is, but remove the endless spawning of them in certain spots, tone down the stupid protection they have, and let us blind them!
^ Most logical conclusion right here. Especially, “It’s just disproportionately long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.”
Actually had a guild mate warp through the bottom of the cage room. They didn’t use to knock you off of the plates on the floor, now when you die the plate doesn’t stay down. That would be fine to me and mechanically sound if ArenaNet didn’t explicitly state that they were fixing the fractal and toning down the length of it. Not only did they make it longer, they made it more annoying and have said nary a word about it. It’s super frustrating and it needs to be addressed on the forums and it needs to be fixed in game even more.
Except that they didn’t state that they would. The said they were looking into a couple of options and reducing the length was one of them. The tiered system we see now was the other.
We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.
It’s like some people can’t do it without exploiting. …
It’s just disproportionately long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.
But who decided to make dredge the most annoying enemy ever. Leave the fractals as is, but remove the endless spawning of them in certain spots, tone down the stupid protection they have, and let us blind them!
^ Most logical conclusion right here. Especially, “It’s just disproportionately long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.”
Actually had a guild mate warp through the bottom of the cage room. They didn’t use to knock you off of the plates on the floor, now when you die the plate doesn’t stay down. That would be fine to me and mechanically sound if ArenaNet didn’t explicitly state that they were fixing the fractal and toning down the length of it. Not only did they make it longer, they made it more annoying and have said nary a word about it. It’s super frustrating and it needs to be addressed on the forums and it needs to be fixed in game even more.
Except that they didn’t state that they would. The said they were looking into a couple of options and reducing the length was one of them. The tiered system we see now was the other.
We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.
They call it UNNECESSARILY LONG specifically and then they added more dredge to it and have have left ZERO comments as to why it went unchanged. They admitted its length isn’t uniform to the rest of the fractals and they made it longer. I can’t tell if I am more mad that it was made longer or that ArenaNet told us they were shortening it and then didn’t and then didn’t say anything.
Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall
wait, what happened?
a few months ago, they said they closed the back doors into that cage with buttons and switch. They didn’t.
Did they finally close all the back doors? (I currently know of 2 that work, one that worked in the past but I haven’t tried in a while)
I wish they decreased the spawn rate of dredge in there… from 0 delay to at least 10 second delay.
My buddy was in the cage, on a pressure plate and warped through the bottom of the cage during the fight and died.
Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall
It’s like some people can’t do it without exploiting. …
It’s just disproportionately long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.
But who decided to make dredge the most annoying enemy ever. Leave the fractals as is, but remove the endless spawning of them in certain spots, tone down the stupid protection they have, and let us blind them!
^ Most logical conclusion right here. Especially, “It’s just disproportionately long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.”
Actually had a guild mate warp through the bottom of the cage room. They didn’t use to knock you off of the plates on the floor, now when you die the plate doesn’t stay down. That would be fine to me and mechanically sound if ArenaNet didn’t explicitly state that they were fixing the fractal and toning down the length of it. Not only did they make it longer, they made it more annoying and have said nary a word about it. It’s super frustrating and it needs to be addressed on the forums and it needs to be fixed in game even more.
Except that they didn’t state that they would. The said they were looking into a couple of options and reducing the length was one of them. The tiered system we see now was the other.
We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.
They call it UNNECESSARILY LONG specifically and then they added more dredge to it and have have left ZERO comments as to why it went unchanged. They admitted its length isn’t uniform to the rest of the fractals and they made it longer. I can’t tell if I am more mad that it was made longer or that ArenaNet told us they were shortening it and then didn’t and then didn’t say anything.
Perhaps you should read what the dev said again. He didn’t say that they were going to shorten the fractal.
It’s the same at the same difficulty level as it was before. The only thing that was changed is that now the exploiters actually have to do the simple mechanics of the gates/floor panels instead of bypass them completely to get to the final cage. For those that do it the correct way, they would not notice anything different.
‘simple mechanics’. Are we talking about fractal 49/50? Cause those are in no way ‘simple’.
It’s the same at the same difficulty level as it was before. The only thing that was changed is that now the exploiters actually have to do the simple mechanics of the gates/floor panels instead of bypass them completely to get to the final cage. For those that do it the correct way, they would not notice anything different.
‘simple mechanics’. Are we talking about fractal 49/50? Cause those are in no way ‘simple’.
The mechanics you use to progress in the dredge fractal are the same regardless of level. People have to stand on the floor plates to open the gates so you have to progress. This has not changed as you progress. Neither has clearing one side and kiting the other while people stand on the plates and use the console.
It’s the same at the same difficulty level as it was before. The only thing that was changed is that now the exploiters actually have to do the simple mechanics of the gates/floor panels instead of bypass them completely to get to the final cage. For those that do it the correct way, they would not notice anything different.
‘simple mechanics’. Are we talking about fractal 49/50? Cause those are in no way ‘simple’.
The mechanics you use to progress in the dredge fractal are the same regardless of level. People have to stand on the floor plates to open the gates so you have to progress. This has not changed as you progress. Neither has clearing one side and kiting the other while people stand on the plates and use the console.
haa haaa….haa…haaa…..did you ever face lv 50 fractal dredge? somehow i doubt you did
It’s the same at the same difficulty level as it was before. The only thing that was changed is that now the exploiters actually have to do the simple mechanics of the gates/floor panels instead of bypass them completely to get to the final cage. For those that do it the correct way, they would not notice anything different.
‘simple mechanics’. Are we talking about fractal 49/50? Cause those are in no way ‘simple’.
The mechanics you use to progress in the dredge fractal are the same regardless of level. People have to stand on the floor plates to open the gates so you have to progress. This has not changed as you progress. Neither has clearing one side and kiting the other while people stand on the plates and use the console.
haa haaa….haa…haaa…..did you ever face lv 50 fractal dredge? somehow i doubt you did
Once again, I’m referring to the mechanics to do the plates/gates. I’m not referring to the dredge themselves.
It’s the same at the same difficulty level as it was before. The only thing that was changed is that now the exploiters actually have to do the simple mechanics of the gates/floor panels instead of bypass them completely to get to the final cage. For those that do it the correct way, they would not notice anything different.
‘simple mechanics’. Are we talking about fractal 49/50? Cause those are in no way ‘simple’.
The mechanics you use to progress in the dredge fractal are the same regardless of level. People have to stand on the floor plates to open the gates so you have to progress. This has not changed as you progress. Neither has clearing one side and kiting the other while people stand on the plates and use the console.
haa haaa….haa…haaa…..did you ever face lv 50 fractal dredge? somehow i doubt you did
Once again, I’m referring to the mechanics to do the plates/gates. I’m not referring to the dredge themselves.
well those mechanics in itself ARE simple, however constantly spawning beefy NPCs with perma protection hitting like a truck and spamming dazes all day while evading dmg kind of make it not so “simple”
It’s the same at the same difficulty level as it was before. The only thing that was changed is that now the exploiters actually have to do the simple mechanics of the gates/floor panels instead of bypass them completely to get to the final cage. For those that do it the correct way, they would not notice anything different.
‘simple mechanics’. Are we talking about fractal 49/50? Cause those are in no way ‘simple’.
The mechanics you use to progress in the dredge fractal are the same regardless of level. People have to stand on the floor plates to open the gates so you have to progress. This has not changed as you progress. Neither has clearing one side and kiting the other while people stand on the plates and use the console.
haa haaa….haa…haaa…..did you ever face lv 50 fractal dredge? somehow i doubt you did
Once again, I’m referring to the mechanics to do the plates/gates. I’m not referring to the dredge themselves.
well those mechanics in itself ARE simple, however constantly spawning beefy NPCs with perma protection hitting like a truck and spamming dazes all day while evading dmg kind of make it not so “simple”
Only very few spots have infinitely respawning dredge. The final cage at the beginning has them but they don’t respawn if you clear only one side. The bomb path has about 5 that at the stairs. Also, stability helps with not getting dazed.
While the dredge do get more difficult at later levels, it still doesn’t change the mechanics for the overall dungeon.
It’s the same at the same difficulty level as it was before. The only thing that was changed is that now the exploiters actually have to do the simple mechanics of the gates/floor panels instead of bypass them completely to get to the final cage. For those that do it the correct way, they would not notice anything different.
‘simple mechanics’. Are we talking about fractal 49/50? Cause those are in no way ‘simple’.
The mechanics you use to progress in the dredge fractal are the same regardless of level. People have to stand on the floor plates to open the gates so you have to progress. This has not changed as you progress. Neither has clearing one side and kiting the other while people stand on the plates and use the console.
haa haaa….haa…haaa…..did you ever face lv 50 fractal dredge? somehow i doubt you did
Once again, I’m referring to the mechanics to do the plates/gates. I’m not referring to the dredge themselves.
well those mechanics in itself ARE simple, however constantly spawning beefy NPCs with perma protection hitting like a truck and spamming dazes all day while evading dmg kind of make it not so “simple”
Only very few spots have infinitely respawning dredge. The final cage at the beginning has them but they don’t respawn if you clear only one side. The bomb path has about 5 that at the stairs. Also, stability helps with not getting dazed.
While the dredge do get more difficult at later levels, it still doesn’t change the mechanics for the overall dungeon.
still doesn’t change the fact how hard is it to kill them and how hard they hit… no matter how you color it dredge map does take it too long, it usually involves too many deathes
i am against exploits but anet really needs to ask themself why ppl so desprately tried to glitch that map
It’s like some people can’t do it without exploiting. …
It’s just disproportionally long compared to other fractals. It is literally the only fractal that is hated. All the others are fair enough.
But who decided to make dredge the most annoying enemy ever. Leave the fractals as is, but remove the endless spawning of them in certain spots, tone down the stupid protection they have, and let us blind them!
All of this! If stealth can work against them….why not blind?
The reason is actually in lore – you can’t blind something that’s already blind, whereas stealth means to remain undetected by any means – even hearing.
A remnant of times past.
“Memories are nice, but that’s all they are.”
The reason is actually in lore – you can’t blind something that’s already blind, whereas stealth means to remain undetected by any means – even hearing.
Explain how mass invis works then….
Or do you have another flavor answer?
Regardless, its not a smart idea to make an entire set of mobs completely immune to one of the primary defenses for certain classes. Talk about a way to remove any desire to do any content involving that mob type.
Btw, who says players using blind aren’t being quiet?
It’s the same at the same difficulty level as it was before. The only thing that was changed is that now the exploiters actually have to do the simple mechanics of the gates/floor panels instead of bypass them completely to get to the final cage. For those that do it the correct way, they would not notice anything different.
‘simple mechanics’. Are we talking about fractal 49/50? Cause those are in no way ‘simple’.
The mechanics you use to progress in the dredge fractal are the same regardless of level. People have to stand on the floor plates to open the gates so you have to progress. This has not changed as you progress. Neither has clearing one side and kiting the other while people stand on the plates and use the console.
haa haaa….haa…haaa…..did you ever face lv 50 fractal dredge? somehow i doubt you did
Once again, I’m referring to the mechanics to do the plates/gates. I’m not referring to the dredge themselves.
well those mechanics in itself ARE simple, however constantly spawning beefy NPCs with perma protection hitting like a truck and spamming dazes all day while evading dmg kind of make it not so “simple”
Only very few spots have infinitely respawning dredge. The final cage at the beginning has them but they don’t respawn if you clear only one side. The bomb path has about 5 that at the stairs. Also, stability helps with not getting dazed.
While the dredge do get more difficult at later levels, it still doesn’t change the mechanics for the overall dungeon.
still doesn’t change the fact how hard is it to kill them and how hard they hit… no matter how you color it dredge map does take it too long, it usually involves too many deathes
i am against exploits but anet really needs to ask themself why ppl so desprately tried to glitch that map
Skilled, organized players can do it with little to no deaths in around 30 minutes. If you play with pugs that are skilled enough to know how to play their class (skill level), work as a team, and use proper mechanics specific for that fractal then you shouldn’t have issues. Most groups fail or take forever because they’re lacking at least one of those things.
However, I do agree that one part of the fractal is unnecessarily long and that would be the dredge car.
MI is a veil, and considering a mesmer employs magic that affects your senses, I don’t think it’s hard to extend this capability to exclude hearing as well.
MI is a veil, and considering a mesmer employs magic that affects your senses, I don’t think it’s hard to extend this capability to exclude hearing as well.
Btw, who says players using blind aren’t being quiet?
Do you see with your ears or what?
Do you hear with your hands? That doesn’t even make any sense. You are just making up excuses for what is clearly a flavor excuse to begin with. Guardians use magic too. How is a mesmer’s magic somehow better or worse for the intended purpose than a guardian’s? Just stop it and admit that the excuse for stealth versus blind versus invis/veil is a weak excuse. Stop trying to stretch/extend something to be what it was never even stated to be.
Perhaps loud noises should “blind” or even stun Dredge?
Its good that you mention that. I specifically remember the personal story having a sonic weapon that the dredge were using. Without sight, that would mean they have extra sensitive hearing. I want my shouts to damage/stun them :p
MI is a veil, and considering a mesmer employs magic that affects your senses, I don’t think it’s hard to extend this capability to exclude hearing as well.
Btw, who says players using blind aren’t being quiet?
Do you see with your ears or what?
Do you hear with your hands? That doesn’t even make any sense. You are just making up excuses for what is clearly a flavor excuse to begin with. Guardians use magic too. How is a mesmer’s magic somehow better or worse for the intended purpose than a guardian’s? Just stop it and admit that the excuse for stealth versus blind versus invis/veil is a weak excuse. Stop trying to stretch/extend something to be what it was never even stated to be.
You realise that I speak from an immersion and lore context, right? Before you start being so rude to me, think about where I’m standing. Your tone was very uncalled for.
I gave you an answer why dredge are immune to blind, and I get a sarcastic response. Way to go.
A remnant of times past.
“Memories are nice, but that’s all they are.”
MI is a veil, and considering a mesmer employs magic that affects your senses, I don’t think it’s hard to extend this capability to exclude hearing as well.
Btw, who says players using blind aren’t being quiet?
Do you see with your ears or what?
Do you hear with your hands? That doesn’t even make any sense. You are just making up excuses for what is clearly a flavor excuse to begin with. Guardians use magic too. How is a mesmer’s magic somehow better or worse for the intended purpose than a guardian’s? Just stop it and admit that the excuse for stealth versus blind versus invis/veil is a weak excuse. Stop trying to stretch/extend something to be what it was never even stated to be.
You realise that I speak from an immersion and lore context, right? Before you start being so rude to me, think about where I’m standing. Your tone was very uncalled for.
I gave you an answer why dredge are immune to blind, and I get a sarcastic response. Way to go.
You realize I am speaking from a game play and functionality context. I am not being rude to you at all. You are dismissing a valid functionality/game play issue with lore/flavor. You are adding things that have never been stated as reasons, for the sole purpose of excusing the oversight/issue. I could say that you are being rude in that regard. Think about where I’m standing. Your initial response about blind could be interpreted as sarcastic (in fact I did interpret it as sarcastic or an attempt to seem clever). Especially how you managed to ignore the entire post I responded to and only focused on giving a lore/flavor excuse as to why blinds were excluded. I could respond with a “way to go” statement, but I will not.
You realize I am speaking from a game play and functionality context. I am not being rude to you at all. You are dismissing a valid functionality/game play issue with lore/flavor. You are adding things that have never been stated as reasons, for the sole purpose of excusing the oversight/issue. I could say that you are being rude in that regard. Think about where I’m standing. Your initial response about blind could be interpreted as sarcastic (in fact I did interpret it as sarcastic or an attempt to seem clever). Especially how you managed to ignore the entire post I responded to and only focused on giving a lore/flavor excuse as to why blinds were excluded. I could respond with a “way to go” statement, but I will not.
Alright, I apologise, but allow me to explain my reasoning that I should have made clearer to begin with.
You see, from a in-universe perspective, it’s understood that dredge cannot see to begin with and that they rely on hearing. Meshing this fact into actual gameplay, dredge are consequently immune to blind. Game design is not all about making mechanics – it’s also about meshing these mechanics with existing lore and stuff, it has to look sensible. Dredge rely on being able to hear their enemies, and I could give a multitude of reasons why just shouting into their ears is ineffective.
On another note, the dredge that are a pain make themselves incredibly durable and use multi-hitting attacks so frequently that a guardian’s blinds would be ineffective anyway. Considering the big picture – the two classes that have pulsed stealth, thieves and necros – necros are unpopular choices and don’t bring much support, while thieves are brought into this specific fractal for stealth. As it is right now sneaking past them is easier than blinding dredge and mass murdering them until ANet decides to cut the number of dredge that show up at the bombs and clown car, which brings us back to the reason why this thread exists.
A remnant of times past.
“Memories are nice, but that’s all they are.”
You realize I am speaking from a game play and functionality context. I am not being rude to you at all. You are dismissing a valid functionality/game play issue with lore/flavor. You are adding things that have never been stated as reasons, for the sole purpose of excusing the oversight/issue. I could say that you are being rude in that regard. Think about where I’m standing. Your initial response about blind could be interpreted as sarcastic (in fact I did interpret it as sarcastic or an attempt to seem clever). Especially how you managed to ignore the entire post I responded to and only focused on giving a lore/flavor excuse as to why blinds were excluded. I could respond with a “way to go” statement, but I will not.
Alright, I apologise, but allow me to explain my reasoning that I should have made clearer to begin with.
You see, from a in-universe perspective, it’s understood that dredge cannot see to begin with and that they rely on hearing. Meshing this fact into actual gameplay, dredge are consequently immune to blind. Game design is not all about making mechanics – it’s also about meshing these mechanics with existing lore and stuff, it has to look sensible. Dredge rely on being able to hear their enemies, and I could give a multitude of reasons why just shouting into their ears is ineffective.
On another note, the dredge that are a pain make themselves incredibly durable and use multi-hitting attacks so frequently that a guardian’s blinds would be ineffective anyway. Considering the big picture – the two classes that have pulsed stealth, thieves and necros – necros are unpopular choices and don’t bring much support, while thieves are brought into this specific fractal for stealth. As it is right now sneaking past them is easier than blinding dredge and mass murdering them until ANet decides to cut the number of dredge that show up at the bombs and clown car, which brings us back to the reason why this thread exists.
I will also apologize, my initial statement about flavor was a bit agitated.
I can understand the blind issue from a lore perspective, but it is broken from a functionality perspective. My glass guardian hates dredge. Core defensive functionality just stops working against them. I hate them so much that I pretty much skipped the zones with a heavy dredge presence and will not set foot into Sorrow’s embrace on my guardian.
The dredge fractal was barely tolerable with being able to skip the initial stages of the platform puzzle. Now they are forcing that to be done. I can understand that, but they should do what they clearly indicated they knew should be done. Shorten this fractal and remove some of the unnecessary mobs. Dredge mobs are inordinately tough and deal a disproportionately high amount of damage compared to other fractal mobs. This issue is exacerbated by blinds not working on them. You are right, there needs to be a compromise between lore and functionality. I feel the lore is already broken by mass invis/stealth working on them, but I am open to other ways to offset this. The previous poster’s suggestion to have loud sounds affect them is a reasonable compromise in my opinion. Maybe shouts/blast finishers do a 1 second daze to them…just enough to disrupt that ground based projectile thing they do and mitigate some of that damage.
I sympathise, I also have a glass guardian, and I do strongly agree something needs to be done with this massive time sink of a fractal. I’m sure I’m not the only one who groans whenever my party rolls this.
A remnant of times past.
“Memories are nice, but that’s all they are.”
1hour 40mins to complete our 3rd frac only (dredge)…give us a break anet fix up the amount of dredge that are prescent and spawn pls not worth doing anymore
did a level 50 dredge last night. took us about 20 minutes to get past the switch/door part. then of course we wiped about 5 times at the clown car. none of it was entertaining.
