Guild Wars 2

Dredge: TOO LONG making it unbalanced compared to every other fractal. Deters casual players. Deters players on shorter time frame not wanting to let party down or waste their time not being able to make it to final reward.

Possible solution: eliminate sub-boss fight

Cliffside: TOO UNFORGIVING making it unbalanced compared to every other fractal. Deters casual players. Deters people who are sick of spending 2 hours on something only to have a slight mistake cost the entire venture. Lacks balance and thoughtful design.

Possible solution: stop trolling?

Thinking this is a L2P or find a better team issue. When i have groups with really bad coordination and communication skills, that makes us take a lot longer. Mobs in some places could definitely be toned back a little though considering there is no healer class and some classes just trump others in survival.

dredge:
You have to DIE to go on….

Cliffside:
1 mistake and it becomes impossible at higher level (ok at higher level mistakes almost never happens)

How can people say L2P

I expect to read l2p even if client disconnect if we go on like that…..

You can easily do the dredge gate controller without anyone dying if it is done properly. Cliffside has one relatively unforgiving part but it is still relatively easy to make a mistake there and still progress if you are able to adjust your strat on the fly and adapt.

So yeah, l2 kitten ue.

Still waiting to hear a strategy not involving class requirements for dredge…

Feel free to tell us.

or even better you could show me
I play fotm daily (often more) at 20-40 i have still to see a SINGLE party doing it without dying

Clearly l2 kitten ue……

People don t care if you say you are a pro on a forum.. really…
Givent the fact that 99,999999999999% of players die on buttons (if not 100% you have still to prove it).

Given damage/regen/hp of dredges i have my doubt your strategy works….juist Killing 2 vets on front door takes ages… unless you are one of those “only heavy”…..

Its undeniable its not a l2 kitten ue….
Eu server?
I m really good in followings strategy…if so you can show me in game just 1 condition…no more than 1 guardian and 1 warrior..

At higher level fractals you really do need a thief to make it doable at the Dredge fractal considering they are all level 83-84 mobs that one-hit-KO you. We just have one guy switch to a thief for that part and switch back. IMO, this is what makes fractals interesting because it actually requires effort. Here’s a run on level 69: http://www.twitch.tv/awsmcelly/b/393954308 (Dredge starts @ 22:00, careful: strong language and slightly drunk players)

That said, Dredge does take waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. I like to think we’re a pretty good group as we beat 70+ in about 90 minutes usually, but the Dredge sub-boss takes MORE THAN 35 MINUTES by itself, of which only 5 is killing the actual boss :/

About cliffside: it’s fine imo, it really is a matter of the right tactics. Here’s a run of lvl 71 on cliffside, even a bad one: http://www.twitch.tv/awsmcelly/b/394760086 , it starts @ around 25:00. You don’t need specific classes for this one.

Hi All,

For Dredge i know 2 ways to do whitout specific clasess
1) All team jump into cage, kill all mobs in left plate, 1 take left plate, 3 ppl run to right side, one take plate and the other 2 kite mobs. The last one take swich.
2) 2 ppl jump into cage, and die in plates. The other 3 do in normal way, kill the 2 dredge at entrance of cage and pull one side out of cage and kill. 2 ppl kite mobs in the other side and the las one take swich.

The problem imo is the champ dredge and his minions, in high lvl are too many and the boss have a lot of health and take too much time to complete. My solution less minions less health.

For Cliffside:

The las part have a good dificult, the problem is when you make a mistake and ruins all run. Solution: if you wipe reset mobs correctly (back to 2 mobs in each seal)

guys we all know how to do stage with EXPLOITS.

Yet they will fix them without again addressing the real design issue…as happened with spykits….

So better they first address issues and then remove explits this time….

But if people continue to say its all ok (and they use exploits) we risk to get in a really frustrating situation…..

As happened to cliffside 1 month post launch were they left a bug preventing adept to despawn while removing an exploit that worked as workaround…

Thus fotms were deserted for a week.

ExaDal.2017:

-snip
For Cliffside:

The las part have a good dificult, the problem is when you make a mistake and ruins all run. Solution: if you wipe reset mobs correctly (back to 2 mobs in each seal)

Funny because a few days ago I was in a lv48 group, our last map was Cliffside and for some reason both arm seals’ first two chanter are kill. We did manage to get it done with thief stealth break one side but it was still doable.

Yeni.3507:

ExaDal.2017:

-snip
For Cliffside:

The las part have a good dificult, the problem is when you make a mistake and ruins all run. Solution: if you wipe reset mobs correctly (back to 2 mobs in each seal)

Funny because a few days ago I was in a lv48 group, our last map was Cliffside and for some reason both arm seals’ first two chanter are kill. We did manage to get it done with thief stealth break one side but it was still doable.

Yes, is doable with a good managment of the situation. But for a pug group is really hard to complete.

Do you even Fract, bro?

But seriously, Dredge gate controller is easy to do without dying. Here is what you do…

Upon entering, you clear the mobs on one side completely without aggroing the other side. At that point, your squishiest person will go towards the gate controller. One person will remain on the initial side you cleared, and your two most survivable people will begin running in a circle around the center at 12 and 6 oclock so they are spaced out drawing aggro. Once they have the aggro the second guy goes to the other side and steps on the pad. That will open the controller and the squishy guy presses it. The two heavies continue to kite in circles making sure to get all the aggro of every mob in the room until it’s done, once its done the three people run out the exit and the kiters exit as their turn around the circle approaches the exit. At this point the mesmer can Veil or Thief use Shadow Refuge to drop and mobs that follow you, but this isn’t necessary.

Easy peasy. If you don’t believe this is how it is done properly, wait for Strife to post his dredge video.

ExaDal.2017:

Yeni.3507:

ExaDal.2017:

-snip
For Cliffside:

The las part have a good dificult, the problem is when you make a mistake and ruins all run. Solution: if you wipe reset mobs correctly (back to 2 mobs in each seal)

Funny because a few days ago I was in a lv48 group, our last map was Cliffside and for some reason both arm seals’ first two chanter are kill. We did manage to get it done with thief stealth break one side but it was still doable.

Yes, is doable with a good managment of the situation. But for a pug group is really hard to complete.

I was in that group we were PuGing two party members. It hard it just took a while to go over the plan with everyone.

I’m a little confused. I didn’t realize so many people had these attitudes about fractals.

I do a fractals 48 every day (because skins), and have done so for about two months now. Never have I encountered the idea that dredge fractal demands certain classes (sometimes people say that about grawl, but dredge???). Sure thief can trivialize some otherwise difficult parts, but that is generally regarded as a bonus than a requirement. In my experience thieves are the most underrepresented class in high fractals, and the majority of the time where a run includes the dredge fractal, the group goes without a thief.

As for being forced to die- it is true that one popular strategy for the beginning is to have people die on the plates, and it’s a pretty easy strategy. That does not mean at all, though, that it is the ONLY strategy, or even the easiest. Personally I find strategies where nobody dies a bit more convenient and quick, not to mention every death is a repair cost.

And most importantly, I’m not a particularly incredible player. And I PUG every night- which means every night is random strangers, it’s not like I’m in some pro group that does dredge better than other people can. And when myself and my random PUG allies load into the dredge fractal, nobody ever says that it’s too hard, or needs a certain class, or it sucks that they are for some reason forced to die. People complain that it takes freaking forever to kill all the mobs before the sub-boss, and the fractal is just too long, but those aren’t really matters of difficulty.

Similar story for cliffside. Sure, people rage if the target dies. Sometimes a particularly inexperienced member might quit if the target dies. But most people at that level are aware that it is perfectly possible (albeit harder) to finish the fractal after the target dies, and moreover that no particular class is needed.

As a see it, some of the attitudes in this thread represent one of the major problems with fractals: people think something can’t be done without a certain circumstance or certain class, or think that it can only be done by pros in a non-PUG group. It’s simply not true. Lots of things are easier- grawl is easier with a guard, Cliffside is easier if nobody kills the target- but to say [harder = impossible] is a nonconstructive and defeatist viewpoint.

Adder.7269:

ExaDal.2017:

Yeni.3507:

ExaDal.2017:

-snip
For Cliffside:

The las part have a good dificult, the problem is when you make a mistake and ruins all run. Solution: if you wipe reset mobs correctly (back to 2 mobs in each seal)

Funny because a few days ago I was in a lv48 group, our last map was Cliffside and for some reason both arm seals’ first two chanter are kill. We did manage to get it done with thief stealth break one side but it was still doable.

Yes, is doable with a good managment of the situation. But for a pug group is really hard to complete.

I was in that group we were PuGing two party members. It hard it just took a while to go over the plan with everyone.

Were you the asura warrior from Yeni’s guild? Cause I am pretty sure I saw who killed marked NPC, and it wasn’t the “PUGs”.

Trollhammer.7439:

Adder.7269:

ExaDal.2017:

Yeni.3507:

ExaDal.2017:

-snip
For Cliffside:

The las part have a good dificult, the problem is when you make a mistake and ruins all run. Solution: if you wipe reset mobs correctly (back to 2 mobs in each seal)

Funny because a few days ago I was in a lv48 group, our last map was Cliffside and for some reason both arm seals’ first two chanter are kill. We did manage to get it done with thief stealth break one side but it was still doable.

Yes, is doable with a good managment of the situation. But for a pug group is really hard to complete.

I was in that group we were PuGing two party members. It hard it just took a while to go over the plan with everyone.

Were you the asura warrior from Yeni’s guild? Cause I am pretty sure I saw who killed marked NPC, and it wasn’t the “PUGs”.

I did kill it. Who did you think killed it?

The problem with the Dredge fractal is that there’s so many kittening dredge, and very few people with the mind to know how AoE works. Even with people that do have the working brain cells required for it, it’s the sheer numbers that make the trek such a long one more than anything else. Thinning some of them out can possibly help make it a faster run that’s more in line with the other fractals.

Cliffside’s only problem is people being stupid for various reasons.

Ok my problem with dredge is it’s just a huge waste of time. I’ve done 48 multiple times and encountered dredge on almost all of the runs. We can do it and one time we didn’t even die on the buttons. The cart part has no real purpose other than to waste the player’s time. That part isn’t even hard by any means. It’s sort of like Arah p4’s Grenth boss fight. It’s very trivial but it’s just long for the reason of wasting the player’s time.

Taking the sub boss out of Dredge is a great idea. It isn’t an interesting encounter and it sucks up a whole lot of time.