I’m getting pretty tired of cheesing in all these dungeons. I’ve seen groups put themselves through heck and back just to skip 3 pathetic mobs. I’ve seen cheese that people swear up and down is faster, but ends up just making the run an unorganized mess. There’s seriously an exploit in every single dungeon path in this game. Then you have those paths that people stray away from because it’s not fast enough.
This is the ADD addled MMO gamer of 2013 that wants big reward for little work, and its attitudes like this that chip away at the overall fun of a game slowly by turning challenging dungeons into nothing but mathematics.
I don’t mind farming runs, but you shouldn’t be able to just cheese through everything and exploit. And they ARE exploits for the most part. This will make a lot of people upset and I’m fully aware of the hate I’m going to get, but I like to work for what I want. I log in to kill stuff, not hit swiftness buttons and hoping for the best.
Is this working as intended, ANET? Are we supposed to just cheese through dungeons high on adderall?
I’m going to answer and then this should be closed.
If you don’t like it don’t do it, its that simple. Instead of joining that group that says lf1m speed run, make your own saying something like “lf4m se p3 (killing everything)”
I see posts like that from time to time and people always join them.
Start your own group, start your own group, start your own group. That’s it, that is the answer thread finished.
Why should it be closed? I asked a legitimate question. Move on if you don’t like it. Move on. Move on. Move on. That’s it. That’s is the answer.
Taking your advice yields nothing, though. And you know it. EVERY GROUP cheeses. Every. Single. Group. And if you DON’T cheese, people bail because they can’t be bothered to kill those 2 mobs because it takes too long.
This issue is pandemic. “From time to time” isn’t good enough. It’s a PVE. It’s a dungeon. It should be every time.
One is people playing how they want to. This should be fine, as they paid for the game — as long as the developer is OK with it, since it’s their game.
The second issue is ANet saying nothing about the behaviors, which could be them saying, “It’s fine, have at it.” or it could be them not getting around to fixing the issues. Since they changed AC explorable and did not put in a mechanism to make groups have to complete Kohler, we can infer that some amount of skipping is OK with them. Can this be generalized to other paths? As long as they remain silent, it can be.
The third, and most important issue, is why people skip the content. Lackluster encounter design, steep learning curve followed by endless repetition on auto-pilot,
imbalances between boss encounters and trash (trash harder than boss), and reward structures heavily weighted towards completing the path’s end encounter rather than completing the path all impact player willingness to complete the experience the way one “has to” in some other games.
frankly before even bothering talking of “cheats” there are serious balance issue way more serious that any possible glitch.
Those are not only balance in professions (that let really people just use 2 buttons) but also in PvE mechanics….
That should be a priority and not making the game even more annoying.
P.S: not to mention as Always that you are so fast in judging what is good and what is not but SKIPPING is perfectly legit and ntended by devs expecially things like kohler etc.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
The second issue is ANet saying nothing about the behaviors, which could be them saying, “It’s fine, have at it.” or it could be them not getting around to fixing the issues. Since they changed AC explorable and did not put in a mechanism to make groups have to complete Kohler, we can infer that some amount of skipping is OK with them. Can this be generalized to other paths? As long as they remain silent, it can be.
They already said skipping trakitten a perfectly valid method. Bonus bosses are also clearly BONUS.
Go to www.gw2lfg.com/lfgs and post groups with the restriction " Doing everything in the Event. Not skipping content." It is one of their pre-sets.
Using the text of “killing everything” should help fix this issue as well. If folks bail, replace them with someone who actually read the posting. There are lots of folks that do not like running past content, and would join a killing everything group by preference if one was posted.
Well, it’s not our fault Anet designs their games so you can finish Arah path 3 for example by killing 7 foes. In fact, it’s even possible to finish by killing 5.
You can finish Arah path 2 by killing 4 foes even. 7 if you do it legit, but in the optimal case, 4.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Play the way you wanna play and all that, but frankly I think dungeons should be revamped to make skipping very hard with only very little pay off.
And what would that result into? Instead of skipping trash, we’d just go back to skipping over walls..
Also, who are you to dictate people how to play dungeons? Some of us like efficiency and speed. This means we like skipping trash, especially seeing how the trash is usually a pain in the kitten to kill (Arah), and never drops anything good (every dungeon ever), thus making them a pure waste of time.
Don’t like skipping? Sure, go ahead and make a group of people who don’t like skipping, no one is holding you back from doing dungeon paths in 1-2 hours when you can do them in 15 minutes. Whatever floats your boat I guess, but forcing other players to do it the way you want to, is kind of pointless.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Well, it’s not our fault Anet designs their games so you can finish Arah path 3 for example by killing 7 foes. In fact, it’s even possible to finish by killing 5.
You can finish Arah path 2 by killing 4 foes even. 7 if you do it legit, but in the optimal case, 4.
Only have to kill 4 foes in path 3. Legit way would be 7 (+4, if you consider skipping door mobs as an exploit).
Well, it’s not our fault Anet designs their games so you can finish Arah path 3 for example by killing 7 foes. In fact, it’s even possible to finish by killing 5.
You can finish Arah path 2 by killing 4 foes even. 7 if you do it legit, but in the optimal case, 4.
Only have to kill 4 foes in path 3. Legit way would be 7 (+4, if you consider skipping door mobs as an exploit).
Crusher, Hunter, Magehunter, Lupi, Wraith?
Unless you don’t need to kill Lupi to complete p3, but I thought they completely sequence checked that one.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
You have to kill lupicus in path 3 to be able to activate the chicken-carrying-scene. But aswell you have to kill the abominations to make lupicus hostile.
But in Arah you still have to kill quite a few mobs. In AC as example i usually kill two.
I feel similarly to the op, I hate the constant skipping, so I decided never to run dungeons without my guild, who feels the same way. BUT I understand why people skip too: some trash mobs are so ridiculously bad they take 15 minutes to kill (exaggerating, but it might be true in some cases) and leave no rewards. Sorrows embrace and arah have probably the most obnoxious mobs I have ever seen in an mmo, not difficult by any means, just their hp pools being crazy.
I never skip kholer, or lupi, and in most dungeon runs I tend to kill everything, but only with people like minded like me. Its all optional, and everyone has options.
Ah another “People should play the way I want them to play” post complaining about skipping trash mobs. Never gets old.
The same could be said for people that are forcing others to skip content. I paid my money, I’d like to get something out of dungeons other than running. If I wanted to run, I’d go outside.
They fill dungeons with baddies so that we can kill them, not run around and cheese.
Revamp dungeons making skipping entire paths impossible. As they are right now, they’re nothing but gauntlets with a party of whiners if you dare stop to kill something. Imagine that! I killed something in a dungeon! For shame!
Can I see something from ANET that states that skipping mobs in every single path in every single dungeon in the game is OK?
You have to kill lupicus in path 3 to be able to activate the chicken-carrying-scene. But aswell you have to kill the abominations to make lupicus hostile.
But in Arah you still have to kill quite a few mobs. In AC as example i usually kill two.
Wait, so, let’s draw a hypothetical situation here. Let’s say we kill the magehunter and run up to lupi. Let’s say, hypothetically, there is a way to walk into lupi’s room without killing the abominations, that wouldn’t trigger lupi?
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Can I see something from ANET that states that skipping mobs in every single path in every single dungeon in the game is OK?
I can confirm skipping was talked by devs more than once….they even said that trash mobs had design issues and werent that fun.
It lies hidden in this section…..
If you are interested in an old news you should be the one looking for it btw….
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Sure the first time you do a dungeon, it’s totally understandable to want to see all there is to see in it, all the mobs, bosses and their mechanics etc. Heck maybe you want to do it that way a few more times after that.
If your intentions are for the gear or loot ($$) alone, which if you’re playing a dungeon many times I can only assume that is your intention, why would you feel you need to go through every mind numbing trash mob and obstacle that offer little to no reward?
There is no logical reason I can think of. Now I’m not saying people who want to play 100% of the dungeon are wrong in any way, it was all put there to be played. But I have to repeat what others are saying that is YOUR choice and If you do not agree with how other do it, stop qqing on the forums (you will not find sympathy here for trying to make others conform to your ways) and form groups of other like minded people.
Who knows, maybe after running arah for the 20th time to get those armor/weapons you really want you’ll start to see it from a new angle..
Bosses labeled as “Bonus Event” can be skipped. It’s a bonus. Entire mobs in entire dungeons, however, shouldn’t be.
I’ve seen groups try the “quick” route by skipping 3 mobs and end up making it longer.
There’s no need to label a run as a speed run on gw2lfg as they are ALL speed runs without having to say so. And they’re speed runs because 1) people can’t be bothered to PVE in a PVE dungeon and 2) the dungeon design is such that allows for it.
You have to kill lupicus in path 3 to be able to activate the chicken-carrying-scene. But aswell you have to kill the abominations to make lupicus hostile.
But in Arah you still have to kill quite a few mobs. In AC as example i usually kill two.
Wait, so, let’s draw a hypothetical situation here. Let’s say we kill the magehunter and run up to lupi. Let’s say, hypothetically, there is a way to walk into lupi’s room without killing the abominations, that wouldn’t trigger lupi?
If you’re saying that PUG players are making bad skips that have too much risk of losing lots of time then I agree. You can tell them that they’re making bad skips and they don’t listen or might even boot you. In game as in real life, you can’t fix stupid. A group of stupid together often think stupid is cool.
But in Arah you still have to kill quite a few mobs. In AC as example i usually kill two.
how do you do AC killing 2 mobs. That seems a bit wierd. do you just ignore the small spiders on the Spider Queen fight? and how do you do the burrow fights without accidently killing more than 2 mobs?
Explorable paths were described as places that players could do what they want as I recall from the dev blogs prerelease. But Anet has done a few things that indicate to me that they dont like some skipping. Such as removing things like teleport guns from dungeons, making spider queen unskippable, I believe it is very difficult now to SE path 3 stand on structure out of reach of first champ, and also for last champ SE path 3 his troops now follow him down to the old skip spot. Kholer is entirely optional but that fight was redesigned so his adds now pull as far as he does. So imo Anet does have some sort of stance againts cheese. Though it appears to me that the stance is specifically avoiding damage that should be a part of the encounter and not a stance against skipping or stacking.
I like how not only is the op told where to stand and what to cheese during a dungeon run but then the same people come to his post and tell him what to think as well. Seems that they actually dont believe in players doing what they want after all.
Imo skipping may not have been anticipated by Anet they now generally accept it. Too hard to change plus players enjoy it. Stuff like standing on stairs of AC path 1 where damage is avoided entirely will likely see a patch. Lets blame the game and not the players.
More proof that the dungeons need revamped due to impatient terribads is that there is an elite and exclusive GW2 country club that you must be a member of in order to run CoF.
And by ‘good dungeon design’, do you mean even more linear progression than we already have that forces you to kill everything in your way for no reward?
Oh, wait, we already have that kind of ‘good dungeon design’ in Fractals… The other dungeons are the only ones where you have somewhat of a choice in what you want or don’t want to kill…
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
I’m not the only one being overly dramatic then, because so are you. People used to actually skip EVERYTHING in dungeons, until Anet riddled them with invisible walls and sequence fixed most of them. At least we’re still killing the necessary stuff…
Some people will always kill the least amount of foes needed to complete a task, especially if the foes in question don’t drop anything worthwhile. If Anet didn’t make trash mobs such a pain in the ass, and didn’t give them the absolute worst drop tables in game, some people might actually bother killing them.
I don’t like to be forced to kill stuff that doesn’t reward me for doing so.
“Guys. I can’t be bothered to PVE in my PVE. Let’s just run.”
Awesome.
Well, skipping stuff is just as much PvE as killing it. You’re the player, trying to get past the Element…
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
“People used to actually skip EVERYTHING in dungeons, until Anet riddled them with invisible walls and sequence fixed most of them. At least we’re still killing the necessary stuff…”
No that’s historically wrong. PUGs skip more than they ever did before. There may be less exploits now but that’s good surely?
“Some people will always kill the least amount of foes needed to complete a task, especially if the foes in question don’t drop anything worthwhile.”
I think there is a problem here. Groups try to skip everything when in fact killing a few easy mobs can make skipping later mobs much easier. The average time spent in the dungeon decreases if you reduce the risk of the repeated bad skip. Killing the least amount of foes is not actually good time management. People think they are clever and skilful when they skip the maximum number of mobs but they’re actually not being very wise.
“People used to actually skip EVERYTHING in dungeons, until Anet riddled them with invisible walls and sequence fixed most of them. At least we’re still killing the necessary stuff…”
No that’s historically wrong. PUGs skip more than they ever did before. There may be less exploits now but that’s good surely?
Lol, you must not have done the exploits back in the day then… I only did a few of them, because I barely played due to RL stuff, but plenty of guildies of mine exploited the everliving kitten out of dungeons like HotW, CoE and Arah. The only reason some of those exploits got fixed was because PUGs started doing them as well. So, historically, PUGs aren’t skipping more than ever.
“Some people will always kill the least amount of foes needed to complete a task, especially if the foes in question don’t drop anything worthwhile.”
I think there is a problem here. Groups try to skip everything when in fact killing a few easy mobs can make skipping later mobs much easier. The average time spent in the dungeon decreases if you reduce the risk of the repeated bad skip. Killing the least amount of foes is not actually good time management. People think they are clever and skilful when they skip the maximum number of mobs but they’re actually not being very wise.
Well, PUGs you play with maybe, but I haven’t had many issues with skipping stuff with the guild, which makes clearing dungeons demonstrably faster.
I guess that if your problem with skipping is that people try it and suck at it, you should either play with people that don’t try to skip, or play with people that don’t suck. But telling other people that skipping is bad and they shouldn’t do it isn’t solving your problem.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Ah another “People should play the way I want them to play” post complaining about skipping trash mobs. Never gets old.
The same could be said for people that are forcing others to skip content. I paid my money, I’d like to get something out of dungeons other than running. If I wanted to run, I’d go outside.
That’s cool, you can form a group and advertise it as a No-Skip dungeon run. In my groups we skip trash. If you don’t like it, don’t be in my group. Don’t tell me how to play. I missed the part where I literally forced you to join my group and stay in it when you find our playstyle unpalatable.
I agree that in the games current state, players should be allowed to play how they want and if someone doesn’t like skipping mobs, then create your own group or join groups that plan on not skipping.
Having said that, I am not sure why Anet allowed the mobs to lose agro in dungeons, which is why groups are capable of skipping in the first place. Mobs should not lose agro and if a group is capable of downing the 10 or so mobs they trained to a location then that should be fine.
Another option would be to give the players an incentive for killing mobs, like stacking magic find and/or gold % each time you kill a mob.
When the rhetoric keeps repeat itself on certain morons asking others to play the way they wanted, hostility will rise. No one wanted anyone intrude their own freedom, but the little idiotic dictators do intrude others’ freedom all the time.
Another option would be to give the players an incentive for killing mobs, like stacking magic find and/or gold % each time you kill a mob.
That’s actually not a bad idea, but since MF doesn’t work on chests and you’d have to stack a ridiculous amount to even get a reliable exotic from the bosses I’d rather have it be GF. Also, it would have to be quite a large about of bonus available to make stacking it all up by killing mobs worth doing rather than still just speedrunning it to get it over with and start again.
More proof that the dungeons need revamped due to impatient terribads is that there is an elite and exclusive GW2 country club that you must be a member of in order to run CoF.
Sure the first time you do a dungeon, it’s totally understandable to want to see all there is to see in it, all the mobs, bosses and their mechanics etc. Heck maybe you want to do it that way a few more times after that.
If your intentions are for the gear or loot ($$) alone, which if you’re playing a dungeon many times I can only assume that is your intention, why would you feel you need to go through every mind numbing trash mob and obstacle that offer little to no reward?
There is no logical reason I can think of. Now I’m not saying people who want to play 100% of the dungeon are wrong in any way, it was all put there to be played. But I have to repeat what others are saying that is YOUR choice and If you do not agree with how other do it, stop qqing on the forums (you will not find sympathy here for trying to make others conform to your ways) and form groups of other like minded people.
Who knows, maybe after running arah for the 20th time to get those armor/weapons you really want you’ll start to see it from a new angle..
Whether for gear or for loot, I still want to play a dungeon for the reason I first tried the dungeon: for fun.
If I weren’t doing it for fun, I wouldn’t do it at all, if I weren’t having fun, I would just not bother getting the armor or loot.
That’s why I don’t skip or use gimmicks, I fight honorably.
Right now I’m doing dungeons for armor and loot (SE and CM), and I’ll always fight honorably.
I was the same in Gw1 for seven YEARS, so no, thwt’s why I know I’ll never resort to speed run cheap gimmicks like you say I will.
Whether for gear or for loot, I still want to play a dungeon for the reason I first tried the dungeon: for fun.
If I weren’t doing it for fun, I wouldn’t do it at all, if I weren’t having fun, I would just not bother getting the armor or loot.
That’s why I don’t skip or use gimmicks, I fight honorably.
Right now I’m doing dungeons for armor and loot (SE and CM), and I’ll always fight honorably.
I was the same in Gw1 for seven YEARS, so no, thwt’s why I know I’ll never resort to speed run cheap gimmicks like you say I will.
And to some of us, getting a dungeon done as fast as possible is part of the fun.
Killing trash and getting nothing in return, is not.
Also, lol, killing trash is honorable now? You have some funky principles… I personally don’t think that purposely wasting my time is honorable and that doing things efficiently is dishonorable, but whatever floats your boat..
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
…
That’s why I don’t skip or use gimmicks, I fight honorably.
…
Right now I’m doing dungeons for armor and loot (SE and CM), and I’ll always fight honorably.
I was the same in Gw1 for seven YEARS, so no, thwt’s why I know I’ll never resort to speed run cheap gimmicks like you say I will.
You are too serious of your skills & opinions judging that you just started doing dungeons a couple weeks lately. I really like to see you fight honorably through Arah especially p1 & p2, if you ever get there or find any honorable group that like to do the same thing as you do.
…
That’s why I don’t skip or use gimmicks, I fight honorably.
…
Right now I’m doing dungeons for armor and loot (SE and CM), and I’ll always fight honorably.
I was the same in Gw1 for seven YEARS, so no, thwt’s why I know I’ll never resort to speed run cheap gimmicks like you say I will.
You are too serious of your skills & opinions judging that you just started doing dungeons a couple weeks lately. I really like to see you fight honorably through Arah especially p1 & p2, if you ever get there or find any honorable group that like to do the same thing as you do.
That challenge is about as fair as most dungeon mechanics. :P
Even if you were simply to running through all dungeons with mobs remove Arah would still take longer. Skipping in Arah can be more of a necessity than a convenience given the large distance you have to cover. The distance between some of the bosses in Arah feel like they are farther apart than then entire path of certain dungeons.
Heh, was this really started only yesterday? It’s been a non-stop reoccurring discussion here since as long as I can remember. ….the only 2 cases where I think it actually helps, is 2 of the Sneak-sneak paths in Arah. The one where you run past the Gorilla boss and then all the spiders through the area with the falling Cosmos to get to the last Jotun boss. … and then the very beginning of the other path where you run North and try to sneak past some other really fast spiders to get up on that Wall and then shoot the Necro Boss guy. In both cases, you NEED people who know how to “run”. And not your casual HotW run either. You need people who could run Droks & Magus Stones… we’re talking DEDICATED builds and lots of practice on the “route” holding down their alt key (or is it CTRL? I always remap mine…) the entire way and steering around junk & popup mobs
I think it’s a good option that needs to be kept in the game just like Droknars Forge was. It needs to remain difficult, but it needs to be an option just so the game continues to feel open and in 3D (instead of the endless Gated-content 2d MAZE on-rails that Factions & Nightfall felt like)
It’s hard to see a run nowadays and imagine this is anybody’s idea of an ideal dungeon experience.
Intention is sort of a fluffy topic, though. Do you really care at the end of the day what the intentions of something like defiant was, or do we just want to make suggestions for getting it fixed? Honestly, our efforts are better focused directing the discussion towards what we’d like to see to elevate the dungeon experience to a higher standard, and less playing developer mind reader.
Honestly, our efforts are better focused directing the discussion towards what we’d like to see to elevate the dungeon experience to a higher standard
A higher standard for YOU maybe, but you fail to realize that some people don’t mind skipping. Stop forcing your perception of how the game should be on other people. There is plenty of other stuff broken with dungeons: bugs, terrible rewards etc. Forcing people to do unrewarding content =/= fun.
Legion of Doom [LOD] – Death ’n Taxes [DnT]
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard
that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
Honestly, our efforts are better focused directing the discussion towards what we’d like to see to elevate the dungeon experience to a higher standard
A higher standard for YOU maybe, but you fail to realize that some people don’t mind skipping. Stop forcing your perception of how the game should be on other people. There is plenty of other stuff broken with dungeons: bugs, terrible rewards etc. Forcing people to do unrewarding content =/= fun.
Did the OP actually mean skipping? I totally did not read it that way. I am not a huge fan of it but I have no problem with people doing it. I thought it was more about people doing stuff like standing on certain spots where mobs can’t hit them but they can still hit the mob(various dungeons and paths at different points in time) or jumping around places where they are basically outside the map(the ship in Arah).
I think there is a problem here. Groups try to skip everything when in fact killing a few easy mobs can make skipping later mobs much easier. The average time spent in the dungeon decreases if you reduce the risk of the repeated bad skip. Killing the least amount of foes is not actually good time management. People think they are clever and skilful when they skip the maximum number of mobs but they’re actually not being very wise.
All skipping takes is running past something… this doesn’t cost you time later at all because oh hey look it’s a mile behind you.
