Guild Wars 2

some dungeons i run a lot, some paths not so much, but between running with good pugs, bad pugs, good friends, bad friends, good guildies, bad guildies, i noticed that i don’t feel like the rewards for some dungeons seem worth it, and as for AC, i don’t think AC is even hard enough anymore to merit 1.55 gold, when on average my CoE runs either take just as long, or 4 times longer, but just for 1.05 gold daily reward?

i know that some people say that because CoE is tiered higher, it is supposed to be worth it due to the higher “chance” of looting lodestones and other loot, but that is just RNG, that isn’t any more reassuring than telling people "fight Tequatl, there is a chance you will loot something worth the 30-60 minutes setting up and killing him, granted if you succeed. on a side note, Teq gives you 1 gold at least, and a good handful of loot, even if it’s bad, it is just barely worth it.

without really delving into details, i will in a gist point out dungeons that could use a daily gold award adjustment, from my own perspective.

Ascalonian Catacombs: unless there are plans to make it even harder, i think the end reward of 1.55 gold is too juicy, considering even really bad groups can get it done in under half an hour, unless it’s path 2, bad people tend to take way longer on that one, but otherwise, i think the daily for path 1 should be 1.05 gold, because between my average runs and difficulty, it isn’t that bad, especially if you have elementalists. path 2, can honestly stay at 1.55 until Detha is completely debugged, since each run is a gamble of “is she going to bug or not after all that?”, otherwise 1.25 gold would be fine. same thing i could say for path 3, aside from it being tedious, it isn’t extreme difficult, 1.25 gold would be fine.

Caudecus’s Manor: this dungeon is a wild card, i mean, SC can speed clear it in 3-4 minutes, Ren can do 6-10 minutes, but my pug groups vary greatly between 12-60 minute runs O.O and it all depends on composition and skill and skipping trash mobs to get down within a timely manner. so even though the ideal run doesn’t take terribly long, i feel like there is a bit of a steep learning curve for CM overall, so i would say 1.25 gold for p1, 1.55 gold for p2, and 1.25 gold for p3.

Twilight Arbor: i haven’t done a lot of TA, but it can take some time to do, yet i don’t feel like Up is too difficult, but can take a bit of time, so i would say 1.15 gold would be reasonable, and as for Forward, it seems slightly harder than Up, so 1.25 gold, and Aetherpath seems about right for gold, but i only did it once all the way, and some people have claimed it’s harder than Arah path 4, but i don’t think everyone feels that way, but just in case, i could in a gist suggest that 2.25 gold would be fine, though the aetherkeys should be enough anyway, so the daily gold increase isn’t really that needed i don’t think.

Sorrow’s Embrace: path 1 is fine at 1.05 gold, it’s easier than CoF path 1 if you got a good party composition. path 2 is a nightmare beyond nightmares, my only complete run of path 2 took over 3 hours, with over 15 party wipes and i went through 7 players to get it done. my friend who was more lucky than me, took him only 80 minutes. so, i would say at least 2.05 gold for this path, 2.25 to be nice. path 3 can stay at 1.05, though sometimes it can be annoying to do the clown car, you get so many champ bags in path 3 that i think that about makes up for it.

Flame Citadel: path 1 is fine at 1.05 gold. path 2 can have issues with Magg, so either make him less buggy during the magmacite event, or i’d say 1.25 gold would be a fair compromise to just leave the programing as-is. path 3 is woth at least 1.55 gold, i hate that path, almost no one likes it, except for pro runners who are the only people who can get it done in under 30 minutes, under 15 even, but the average pug runs for me has been between 36 – 100 minutes (granted, the 100 minute run, we had a level 76 warrior, and only one other person knew the path, which i was new myself).

Honor of the Waves: i hate this dungeon, it should be removed, but until then, considering all things, i think no less than 1.55 gold per path can justify it, and i would be bold to say 1.75 for path 2 and path 3 alike.

Crucible of Eternity: i feel like all paths should be 1.55 gold also, because each path on average for me has taken the same time as AC path 3, but unlike AC, CoE actually requires some decent level of skill and even more proper dodging and positioning in comparison, so you might end up like me the other day, with a 57 run of path 1, and 65 minute run of path 2, for 1.05 gold? man, that is twisted.

Arah: i haven’t done enough to really say anything, but it seems like the rewards are fine as is from what i can tell.

thank you for reading, have a nice day.

I also think the gold rewards aren’t well-balanced. I think a lot of others here too feel this way but don’t bother talking about it anymore because most of us know that if Arenanet does change it, they’ll probably just replace the gold rewards at the end with invisible walls, dredge, or unblockable projectiles.

Miku, i don’t think Anet are that cruel xD but anyway, off topic, are you from Retaliate? i see the [rT] in your sig :o they are one of the best dungeon speedclearer guilds i heard. and btw, i checked out that twitch page too, is that the cover of Wintersun’s debut album linking to your YT channel? if you’re a fan, that is awesome <3 \m/, ^.^

I realize and agree dependence on RNG isn’t really ideal, but it can’t really be ignored either. If I run COE and end with 3 charged cores and a lodestone that’d be an extra 6 gold, or basically 2X the pure gold value. Now that’s well above average, I’d say average for me is 2 cores, which still ends up being an extra 2 gold on top of the 3 gold making it a little better than AC and I really don’t find COE any more difficult.

Overall I don’t think they’re perfect, but I’d rather they just leave them alone out of fear that they’d just starts swinging that big foam nerf bat around.

Just a note, also don’t forget that you can take your CoF/COE/HOTW/Arah tokens and turn them into rares for ectos or toss in the forge or whatever, that’s a little extra there as well. TA gives Linen which can be a nice addition and CM wool I believe it is.. Still not perfect but things worth noting I think.

Yes the [rT] is for Retaliate, and yeah as for Wintersun— I used to like two of their songs a lot. A very very very long time ago I made my own note charts for guitar hero (customs). I would play Death and the Healing and I was in the midst of a Beyond the Dark Sun custom too but I gave up because I lost interest in the game long ago. Trying to remember how long ago that was… so so long ago :P

ah okays, well it is nice to meet you Miku :-) an honor talking to a rT member <3
i hope Anet takes deeper interest in the dungeon reward rebalancing sometime soon.

Utomneian.9013:

i hope Anet takes deeper interest in the dungeon reward rebalancing sometime soon.

It sadly won’t happen. At least not this year, or next year…

But then again, from what I’ve heard ANet (or at least a few devs) talked at gamescom about making the game even easier. I don’t know if that’s true, but if it is… well.

Crucible of Eternity should have 1.5-2 gold reward in my opinion. Ascalonian Catacombs is a pretty mind numbing dungeon, and takes little skill to complete at higher levels. Crucible of Eternity requires more skill, and isn’t always as mind numbing. I’m also a little biased that higher level content should be more rewarding than low level content. It doesn’t make sense to me that the lowest level dungeon should be the highest rewarding.

I think that they should have a daily rotating dungeon reward system.

In this case, the reward for running a dungeon path is increased, but is only available for a specific dungeon each day.

For example, let’s say today is Catacombs day.

Now you get 3g for each path (and 1g for story!). All other dungeons will NOT have a gold reward today but will have the one time token reward.

Tomorrow is Caudecus’s Manor day. Etc.

Please note that the gold amounts are for illustration purposes only and do not reflect any type of “balanced” value.

mtpelion.4562:

I think that they should have a daily rotating dungeon reward system.

In this case, the reward for running a dungeon path is increased, but is only available for a specific dungeon each day.

For example, let’s say today is Catacombs day.

Now you get 3g for each path (and 1g for story!). All other dungeons will NOT have a gold reward today but will have the one time token reward.

Tomorrow is Caudecus’s Manor day. Etc.

Please note that the gold amounts are for illustration purposes only and do not reflect any type of “balanced” value.

omg no. Maybe give a certain dungeon higher rewards for a day, but don’t scrap the rewards from the other dungeons of that day.

I’d love to see a rebalance of dungeon rewards, as I recall, AC is only high to encourage running it after they revamped it however many months ago.

However… a daily dungeon (which I think should actually be a story dungeon) to complete and say add a token and gold reward to get it would encourage more people to run them. I like the idea of signing on and say “oh, cof story is the daily dungeon, lemme find some noobs to teach”. It would encourage people who aren’t so dungeon savvy to dip their toe in. I like that.

But for no reason ever should the gold reward be taken away from the dungeons. Gold faucets are important and good for our economy given the excessive gold sinks.

yes ^ and there are a lot of gold sinks ^.^ hehe. i will add that my wvw guild mostly avoids dungeons, either finding pve boring, or dungeons as easy as CoF and SE to being too difficult for some reason (though running wvw bunker builds doesn’t help either, lol). but even aside from that, i have had frequent issues with dungeons that i am suggesting the gold raises on, with people who are supposed to be experienced in general. so hopefully this post can stay alive long enough for Anet to catch it

Utomneian.9013:

yes ^ and there are a lot of gold sinks ^.^ hehe. i will add that my wvw guild mostly avoids dungeons, either finding pve boring, or dungeons as easy kitten and CoF to being too difficult for some reason (though running wvw bunker builds doesn’t help either, lol). but even aside from that, i have had frequent issues with dungeons that i am suggesting the gold raises on, with people who are supposed to be experienced in general. so hopefully this post can stay alive long enough for Anet to catch it

I love your optimism.

Just so you know… anet devs don’t come here. Only mods. Occasionally.

bah, the forum changed my words into kitten, because i used the word “as” and “SE”, mistook it for a swear :p i had to edit my post around.
if mods just come here, do i have to go to a suggestions area of the forum to directly suggest my ideas to Anet?

Utomneian.9013:

bah, the forum changed my words into kitten, because i used the word “as” and “SE”, mistook it for a swear :p i had to edit my post around.
if mods just come here, do i have to go to a suggestions area of the forum to directly suggest my ideas to Anet?

There was. It’s archived now.

I agree that the prices are imbalanced. Here is my “what I think would be nice” on the dungeons I have done many times: (I use AC 1+3 as my “base”)
AC:
1: 1g5s
2: 1g30s (Never actually ran this one before because of bugs. Are they REALLY all fixed?)
3: 1g5s

CM:
All paths: 1g55s

TA:
Up: 1g5s
Forward: 1g30s
Aetherpath: 3g5s (being a little generous here)

CoF:
1: 80s
2: 1g5s
3: 1g80s/2g5s (last one pushing it a bit, but if everyone in your group isn’t really good at it it will take 2+hrs)

Hopefully you all don’t think I’m crazy. Basically the problem is that the price for each path isn’t balanced relative to other paths.

Basically AC 2 is much harder than the other so fix that first haha

Dungeon rewards aren’t bad and they don’t need to be the most profitable way to play. Dungeons are by their nature repetitive, and they shouldn’t be the most profitable way to play. It is important to also consider that dungeons offer tokens, which you need to unlock dungeons skins (and that takes a while).

Implementing a daily dungeon with raised rewards for all paths of that dungeon, as some suggested, is a much better approach.

i am not 100% sure what you are talking about Fergus, but if it means i have more incentive to do a dungeon i hate, then i’ll agree with you xD

as for Carter, i do not completely disagree with your take on the price balance, but CoF path 1 isn’t quite 80 silver, since you have to mind the speedruns in relation to casual, and take a middle ground for a price, which, CoF path 1 speedrun is slightly over 5 minutes, while all paths of CM can be done in 3-4 minutes each, and SE path 1’s record is slightly over 3 minutes as well, in relation to “casual fast” runs, my average CoF path 1 takes 9 minutes, my average SE path 1 takes 7 minutes, so if you were to suggest CoF p1 is so fast and easy compared to CM and SE p1, then those dungeons by that logic would have to come down in price too.

it’s a thin line, you don’t want hardcore speedrunners to get super rich off of something they do every day, but at the same time, you want the people who are not in rT, SC, Ren, DnT, FGS, etc~ to be able to be like “okay, today i am going to do CoF path 3, because Anet made it worth the 30-100 minutes pugs take to complete it!”.

It’s a bit hard to balance with regards to PUGs vs Speed Runs though. I mean as you say 30-100 mins. Even for 3 gold you’d be better off running the faster ones than taking 100 mins right? It’s a pretty big variance to actually design around when you have 30-100 for pugs but also 5-10 for guild groups, what do you set the expected time to be?

I’ve always liked the “stock market” idea though. Every day at reset it looks at the day before and how much each path was run and rebalances the reward based, having of course a minimum and maximum. If AC is run 100 times, CoF1 90, Arah p2 60, and Aetherpath 20 then Aether would be at the top, AC at the bottom. Something like that. In this the players would decide their rewards through play, if you just run what everyone finds easy you’ll be making less money than if you get good at the less done paths assuming the scale is large enough.

Also personally speaking, I’d love to see story mode dungeons see a boost to their daily reward. I enjoy many of them but they simply aren’t worth running daily. I don’t really find them any easier than the other paths for most dungeons actually the opposite in some cases.

Jerus.4350:

Also personally speaking, I’d love to see story mode dungeons see a boost to their daily reward. I enjoy many of them but they simply aren’t worth running daily. I don’t really find them any easier than the other paths for most dungeons actually the opposite in some cases.

+1e+6

hmmm, so less popular dungeons would just start to reward more if they are not ran much in a day? it would be kind of hard to implement this, a static change would be the easiest for Anet, because i imagine dungeon daily rewards is in some sort of LUA or XML kind of file that is easy access, but the idea of self adjusting rewards based on day to day, or even week to week popularity of a dungeon would have it’s merits, yet it would probably require reprogramming in the C++, and could have bugs that can take a week or even a year to fix (like Detha, lol). so i guess the easiest thing they could do in this regard, is get a dungeon run consensus, then implement a gold reward change based on those statistics.

either way, i still prefer my static idea in contrast to that, because people do Arah all the time, half of Renegatus solo Arah, if they based rewards just on popularity, Arah would drop to like 1 gold, lol.

1.5 gold for the AC paths is fair. If you look at the record clear times on gwscr.com, AC has some of the slowest paths out of all the dungeons. There’s no possible way you can speed up Detha setting up the traps in P2, or destroy the burrows in P3 in the Lover’s Crypt any faster.

I think the dungeon rewards for the most part are pretty accurate. A few changes I would suggest, however:

• Make Aetherpath more rewarding to motivate more people into running it (it should be at least 3 gold, if not more)
• Arah P3 should have a reward in line with Arah P1 and P2 as its not much shorter, if it is at all, than the other Arah paths if you know what you are doing.
• CoE paths should be a bit more rewarding… I know you can get lucky with RNG and get charged lodestones as well as vicious claws from destroyers, but it’s a long dungeon for only a guaranteed 1 gold reward.

actually… about speeding up Detha xD look up some of DnT’s videos, specifically, Brazil.

Utomneian.9013:

actually… about speeding up Detha xD look up some of DnT’s videos, specifically, Brazil.

Have to say I am quite impressed with the research you have done concerning the hardcore dungeon guilds and all the guides they have. You might post and I miss you, but this is the first I’ve seen you here.

I like your ideas and your optimism, I hope it works out for you,since many of us here have given up hope that anet will pay attention to dungeons and the rewards from dungeons.

thank you Minigrump :-)

Carter.1034:

I agree that the prices are imbalanced. Here is my “what I think would be nice” on the dungeons I have done many times: (I use AC 1+3 as my “base”)
AC:
1: 1g5s
2: 1g30s (Never actually ran this one before because of bugs. Are they REALLY all fixed?)
3: 1g5s

CM:
All paths: 1g55s

TA:
Up: 1g5s
Forward: 1g30s
Aetherpath: 3g5s (being a little generous here)

CoF:
1: 80s
2: 1g5s
3: 1g80s/2g5s (last one pushing it a bit, but if everyone in your group isn’t really good at it it will take 2+hrs)

Hopefully you all don’t think I’m crazy. Basically the problem is that the price for each path isn’t balanced relative to other paths.

AC p2 requires more organization than p1 and the ever so boring p3.

After 2 years I still cannot understand how people still fail CM.

My only problem with the dungeon rewards is how nearly everything is worth as much as the easiest dungeon path in the whole game (CoF p1). Even SE p2 which takes so much more time.

CM was pretty brutal before ferocity if you didn’t have reflects/stealth. In bad teams, it’s a pretty ugly dungeon to be in because of all the trash mobs.

Utomneian.9013:

i am not 100% sure what you are talking about Fergus, but if it means i have more incentive to do a dungeon i hate, then i’ll agree with you xD

By Daily Dungeon, I refer to a system where every day, one of the dungeons is selected as the daily dungeon. This would mean that the daily rewards for completing the dungeon paths are much higher than usual.

This would would encourage players to do the daily dungeon paths rather than only grinding the most speed-run friendly paths every day.

Purple Miku.7032:

CM was pretty brutal before ferocity if you didn’t have reflects/stealth. In bad teams, it’s a pretty ugly dungeon to be in because of all the trash mobs.

But guardians, mesmers, engis, thieves, even rangers have reflects (the first two have more, true). I understand, the first time you do a dungeon that it can be horrible.

Hell, after spending 2 hours in AC p1 back when the game was launched I said “no” to AC for 2 months and my guildies had to force me to do CM a week after that terrible, terrible experience. And CM was just a blast compared to AC (1 mesmer, 1 warrior, 1 guardian and 1 necro. We didn’t even have a 5th player because we always landed on raging kittens).
But now the game is 2 years old. Sure for some people, they are still doing their first runs. But really, in worst case scenario all you need is 1 good guardian who knows how to skip the middle group without even aggroing them and without stealth.

Btw : can Frost still be ranged from the safety of the rocks ?

RedStar.4218:

Btw : can Frost still be ranged from the safety of the rocks ?

Affirmative.

dlonie.6547:

RedStar.4218:

Btw : can Frost still be ranged from the safety of the rocks ?

Affirmative.

I’d just wish Anet would get around to fixing that. Not out of spite, but so players can finally learn how to do this hard-at-first-but-actually-easy fight.

RedStar.4218:

dlonie.6547:

RedStar.4218:

Btw : can Frost still be ranged from the safety of the rocks ?

Affirmative.

I’d just wish Anet would get around to fixing that. Not out of spite, but so players can finally learn how to do this hard-at-first-but-actually-easy fight.

I second this.

Check out the way I fought him — you can do this on any class. He really is easy as hell. Unless you repeatedly fail to dodge his one attack that freezes you, there’s pretty much no danger.

Go to 33:00 in this video to see it if you want http://www.twitch.tv/purpleishawt/c/4893303

Like I said, CM is only a disaster of a dungeon for people that don’t know it… but same can be said about just about all dungeons. The trash mobs in CM in particular all do kill shots and/or inflict a ton of bleed, so it’s generally really unforgiving for people that suck and when groups don’t have reflects.

Yeah that’s exactly how we fight him. Just move around him. The closest you are to him, the faster it is to simply move away from his frost ray of death.

And when he switches aggro right out of nowhere, it can be really funny xD.

I realy don’t think the gold from the dungeons will fix the issues if the dungeons . I have been playing for about 2 years now (only dungeons , no pve or pvp , spvp or WvW) and all i have to say is they should focus on increasing the details in the dungeons, besides stacking for FGS (people stack because they think is better, but the stacking came from the fgs overpowered 4’th skill but they don’t know that), skiping all the trash mobs cus they dont drop anything usefull, and going for a boss that drops dead in 3 seconds isn’t how dungeons should be. At this moment there is 0 mechanics besides slash and dice the kitten out of the bosses (exception Lupicus from Arrah), they totaly killed dungeons, and i think it was intended to bolster up their WvW system wich isn’t bad , but still dont kitten the dungeons just to put up the stairs a system wich not everyone has interest in it and i know its the majority that takes interest. It took them 2 years to fix the kitten spider queen in ac, if thats not lame i don’t know how to call it. Possibility is that they might have a lack of personel but that doesnt justify why would they flush the dungeons out of the toilet like your items in Mystic Forge. That beeing said, the gold reward not beeing fair or somewhat better its not the big issue here. Overall , dungeons are so easy that 1 guy either can kill the boss alone or ,can sustain , and be 4 noobs in the party, by himself.
And i think the executive director of this project has either not played any other games with dungeons, or had too much lotus or need for speed in his youth.
Arena net either wake up the other (Sauron eye) or, open/ build another one to see the game from perspective.

well, Anet just murdered FGS stacking and pretty much any good reason to ever need an elementalist in a party aside from might stacking and frost bow, so… yeah, looks like your dream is one step closer FoXX :/

your idea of what is easy is far different from mine, and while a lot of dungeons can be breezed through with basic understandings of mechanics and taking the edge of tactics even, i am merely on the top end of the casual crowd, and i never soloed a dungeon, though i’ve 2 manned AC p1, but it took an hour, and a lot of these dungeons are so annoying that they are unapproachable, which is why i am asking for increased incentive to waste 45 minutes on CoF path 3, when i could just run all the easy dungeons, 2-3 of which i can run in the same time a path like CoF path 3 takes me.

it’s to the point that it might just be better to run around killing mobs all day and night and sell tier 6 mats and linen to make money, why bother doing some of those dungeons ever aside from the one time achievement points, and the Dungeon Master title?

i only find things fun the first time around, if i am repeating something for the sake of making money, then i don’t care about messing around, i have pvp and wvw i can mess around in, dungeons are money to me, they are life blood, and they feed my way to progressing my characters, and one thing that bugs me, considering i am easily stressed out when i am on a schedule, is that time is precious to me, so if doing something takes far too much time, for the same reward as something faster and easier, well then that bothers me and i don’t like doing it unless someone begs and begs me to waste my time to help them through a dreaded unworthy path of a dungeon.

and look at it this way, to better understand my views on this. let’s say, you have 2 jobs, they both pay you minimum wage, one job all you have to do is stand around for 4 hours at a cash register, and the other job you are a welder’s apprentice getting ripped off at minimum wage (i know this isn’t a real example, just bare with me), working 10 hours a day with hard manual labor that sometimes gets you injured.
which job will you quit and which will you keep? and since this is an offshoot example, don’t try to heckle or debunk the examples just because we all know welders in real life make like 70 dollars an hour, that isn’t the point of this comparison :p

I have a question. Because I’ve nearly never did any of the farms (doing 2 rotation of Queensdale doesn’t really count), the whole farming in the open world is kind of an unknown wold for me.

The T6 mats you speak off, do you get them directly as monster drops or are they for th most part from champion boxes. And if champion boxes are the main income, what’s the average box/minute ?

Purple Miku.7032:

RedStar.4218:

dlonie.6547:

RedStar.4218:

Btw : can Frost still be ranged from the safety of the rocks ?

Affirmative.

I’d just wish Anet would get around to fixing that. Not out of spite, but so players can finally learn how to do this hard-at-first-but-actually-easy fight.

I second this.

Check out the way I fought him — you can do this on any class. He really is easy as hell. Unless you repeatedly fail to dodge his one attack that freezes you, there’s pretty much no danger.

Go to 33:00 in this video to see it if you want http://www.twitch.tv/purpleishawt/c/4893303

Like I said, CM is only a disaster of a dungeon for people that don’t know it… but same can be said about just about all dungeons. The trash mobs in CM in particular all do kill shots and/or inflict a ton of bleed, so it’s generally really unforgiving for people that suck and when groups don’t have reflects.

really
all
you have to do
is circle around him
Im sad for not knowing/figureing that out

Redstar, a bit of both, it depends, but in Frostgorge you can go in and out of the champ events, and then just go around killing trolls or kodan, it’s really tedious, but if you already did the best dungeon paths for gold for the day, then it honestly pays off better just running around for an hour killing trash mobs than wasting time on SE path 2, or CoF path 3.