Guild Wars 2

So I just ran a dungeon a little while ago, and there was a guy in it that fancied himself a pretty big player in the dungeon world. He automatically called us noobs (Which we had already admitted that we hadn’t done a lot of dungeons) and then said we should follow what he says. He got mad at us for not doing what we were told (Some of it was useful, and we did our best to try to listen) but about a quarter way through we noticed something odd.

He was running through naked. Now, from what I understand of how it all works, taking off your armour is gonna really bring down your character’s ability. He said that he only puts his armour on for runs where the people aren’t pugs (He spoke that like an insult) and listen to his instructions. We were getting slaughtered here and there, especially on Subject Alpha. We got mad at him for not putting in his best effort, and kicked him from the group. We weren’t gonna have someone who wasn’t at full strength.

He then proceeds to go mental on us and basically start yelling that he’s gonna report us for griefing him and get us all banned. Anyway…

Do people often do this? Run a dungeon naked with noobs because you know you’ll get killed? He said this was perfectly acceptable, but it just made the dungeon that much harder (Having ran the dungeon the day before with a group of people at full strength I definitely noticed the difference, and that was with another group of newbies.)

I think you just encountered one of the nasty elitists. I just did my first dungeon run last night with a couple of parties and they were all very forgiving with one or two exceptions, like when people just charge in and aggro the whole mob, but that understandably pisses people off especially when you’ve been explicitly told to wait.

He won’t be the only person who’s been through the dungeon so you’ll have no problems finding someone else to guide you. Some people are just really obsessed with their token count.

I would suggest to kick this kind of guy the moment he starts becoming a nuisance. Before he would go naked and order around, I believe he would be booted from most parties. You were really nice to him. I wouldn’t call him elitist either, it was just a full of himself kiddo.

There are many very nice players you can encounter in dungeons, it’s just matter of luck to find them. But I think it’s easier to meet one rather than finding a rare drop from dungeon chest

Sadly it happens, but on the whole its a rarity. Unlike WoW this game doesn’t punish too harshly for wipes. My armor completely busted is a massive 10s 50c or there about. If anything he caused the pug to become the self fulfilling prophecy of failing.

As Icpdragonslayer said – you just encountered the nastiest end of leetism in the gaming community.

Okay so this is somewhat common but not altogether accepted behaviour then. I just wanted to know because I was a bit confused honestly. He made it feel like I had slighted him personally and that I was a criminal or something xD I was surprised he didn’t say he wanted to get the cops involved and lawyers.

I’ve done tons of PUGs and never had someone like him in a party.=P Not even close.

Dude’s an idiot, we had someone on a CoE run (a kittening guildie, no less) who, when I asked him to get in vent his response was, “It’s a dungeon, you kill the things with red names. How hard can it be.” Then during the second Alpha fight we noticed him doing nothing but kiting around naked with a staff (he was a guardian) autoattacking, doing next to 0 damage (we knew this because he couldn’t solo a single bomb golem before it exploded). And to top it all off when I was “What the kitten are you doing, repair your kitten armor.” he had the gall to give me a “Why, there’s no strategy, its nothing but graveyard zerging anyway.”

No vent.
No armor.
No performance.
No excuses.

I’m still considering kicking this guy from the whole guild.

Taking off his clothes and running around the dungeon butt-naked? That should’ve been your first sign Anyway, I haven’t notice such behavior so far. At worst, you get with a group of four random people not in sync and it takes forever to complete a dungeon.

This works in reverse too. (Not the naked part) but an almost ludicrous amount of newer dungeon runners not listening and kittening it all up, causing a wipe. I’ve mostly run AC, have all the armor and greatsword, I don’t know how many runs that would equal, but the point is I’m brandishing the sword even if the don’t see the armor.

I try not to be bossy with newer runners and generally try and let them figure it out, yet I give tips about what’s next and how most people do it. It pisses me off to no end though, when I say to absolutely do something or don’t do something, and someone does the opposite thinking they know better.

Case in point, a recent pug group and I mass it to the cannon repairs with Detha (path 2). The first two cannons got repaired, Detha died before reaching the 3rd and so did we, leaving 3 trash mob dudes. We get back and they want to rez Detha, so she can repair the cannon and we can kite the ghosts. I said no, we must kill them or another mob will spawn and it will become significantly harder. They say no, no, we can just kite them and she’ll repair. Long story short, I was right and it became impossible for our group. Full wipe before the easiest boss.

So don’t be a jerk and not listen, the same as being an elitist.

This is true in reverse. As much as I love helping new players running through dungeons, a lot of them just don’t listen no matter how nice I am. I’m pretty sure a lvl 80 with a full set of armor from the dungeon that is being done knows more than your new player, so correct me if I’m wrong. The more I see this, which is very frequent, the more I just want to run with geared 80s only, or with friends. Double standards, how do they work?

If i ever encountered someone like that, id immediately tell the rest of the group to strip naked and begin to dance.

Nothing ticks off a troll/elitist more than when you respond in kind instead of rage or try to figure out whats going on.

The moment someone takes off their armor, it’s time to kick them. It immediately shows that person’s commitment to the dungeon run.

To be fair, I’ve successfully done parts of dungeons naked before. Oftentimes, for instance, CoF path 2’s Magg bomb ritual ends up being a dps check for doing it the “legitimate” way. Thus, random pub groups will more often than not fail this dps check miserably, and so you pretty much have to throw yourself at enemies until you can kite well enough to survive the whole timer. Now, I’m not sure about anyone else, but I’ve succeeded that event numerous times when the whole party had no armor on (and as a result, typically recommend that strategy to new groups I form not with my guild).

For the record, I’ve also had a group of pubs succeed in the Subject Alpha path 2 final fight with no armor on. The reason there being that they simply couldn’t coordinate and kill the pink crystal lockdown that SA uses, so people would auto-die to his AOEs. Let’s be honest, no one wanted to spend more money in repairs than they would make from the dungeon, and no one wanted to give up on the dungeon without rewards after getting so close to the end.

tl;dr: I don’t think no armor automatically means he’s being a nuisance / leecher, but certainly he may have been for other reasons (trolling, etc).

For the record, I also agree with Oh Snapalope’s comments thoroughly.

If you’re gonna run dungeons with pugs naked you’re screwing chances of success up significantly, especially if you’re the one knowing the tactics and possibly having the best control of your character.

On top of that you’re being an kitten because YOU don’t pay for repairs, but everyone else does. And regularly they will die because YOU can’t pull your weight with your kitteny naked-stats.

Everyone does a dungeon for the first time. You learn them and when you’re confident you know the tactics, you can start leading groups through them, and teach those players the tactics. This is the way it works. Nothing about running naked is a part of that for normal people. Only for jerks.

Here’s an advice for the next time: If you realize you’re grouped with a jerk, vote kick him right away or leave the group yourself. Saves you alot of time and trouble.

Here on the tarnished coast i have never seen people doing this in any of my groups. There have been cases where I am grouped with relatively new players who dont understand some of the fight mechanics and just rush in and aggro anything. Usually I just let them die (if i think i will probably die trying to res them) and tell them to go back to the waypoint and run back. Usually after someone dies once or twice from doing stupid things they start to take things a bit slower and listen lol.

This is yet another reason why I’m glad I don’t PuG (not that I dislike all PuGs; just ones that produce unnecessary drama for a game). As a player that is experienced with most of the dungeons in this game, I love taking in new people and showing them the ropes. I try to be concise in my explanations (ex: TA vine has two attacks — frequent shotgun AoE at range and occasional close range AoE knockdown; stay close to a vine to avoid the majority of damage and quickly dodge/negate the knockdown.).

Like many have said, either kick the problematic member or leave the group as this scenario isn’t worth any dedicated dungeon runner’s time. You’ve already dedicated effort to form the group and continuing with an arrogant person like that defeats the purpose of trying to clear the dungeon. Time spent finding a civilized player is more valuable.

I’m honestly not sure why that arrogant jerk even decided to play with your group if he cared that much about the success of the run when he contradicts himself by being one of the major causes of failure. Hopefully this isn’t a frequent thing otherwise you may need to create a personal dungeon blacklist.

What really irks me is when people don’t want to take the time to join a ventrilo / teamspeak / mumble / or skype.

Even if you don’t have a mic, being able to listen to someone call directions so people are not wasting time mid fight trying to type out crucial information is SOO beneficial its just mind boggling that people shrug it off with such a laissez faire attitude.

Especially in PvP. I generally refuse to group with people in pvp if they dont want to take all of 2-3 minutes to join a server for voice communication. Its absolutely infuriating when people dont, then whine about being killed and say things like “why weren’t you with me when I was over here doing blah blah blah.”

…..mmmm…Cause I can’t read your mind? Cause…..you didn’t say….anything?

Some people…

I don’t know if I’m lucky or if Sorrow’s Furnace has a good community, but the big majority of people seem pretty nice and helpful. I rarely see anyone die at any dungeon and no one has problem to explain mechanics to newcomers.

There was once a thief that started trash talking because we didn’t skip a pack of mobs, but then his friend told him to shut up and he remained silent for the rest of the dungeon.

If anything, I would consider a player that runs around naked in dungeons and belittles others for their inexperience to be a griefer here. I applaud you for agreeing to kick him. Players like that ultimately drag the group down with their lack of commitment and bad attitude.

In my experience, both in this game and in many others, most pugs are actually friendly and cooperative, as long as you treat them with respect (whether or not most of them are competent is a separate question ). So as I see it there’s little reason to waste time with the one or two nasty ones you encounter every once in awhile. My advice, if your active group/guild is small, is to keep a list of the nicer people you’ve grouped with and invite them for more runs.

Rehk.6574:

What really irks me is when people don’t want to take the time to join a ventrilo / teamspeak / mumble / or skype.

Even if you don’t have a mic, being able to listen to someone call directions so people are not wasting time mid fight trying to type out crucial information is SOO beneficial its just mind boggling that people shrug it off with such a laissez faire attitude.

Especially in PvP. I generally refuse to group with people in pvp if they dont want to take all of 2-3 minutes to join a server for voice communication. Its absolutely infuriating when people dont, then whine about being killed and say things like “why weren’t you with me when I was over here doing blah blah blah.”

…..mmmm…Cause I can’t read your mind? Cause…..you didn’t say….anything?

Some people…

I can’t agree, mostly because whenever I have joined a voice server for “Communication” in any game, it has been a nasally, annoying, raging jerk on the other end who is continually eating cookies or something in the background, crying out curses whenever he dies, and generally infuriating things I don’t want to hear when playing a fantasy video game.

I don’t think it’s that people don’t want to take the time, I think it’s that whenever I hear people on a voicechat system, I instantly want to mute them. I remember back raiding in other games, I simply had 50%+ of the raid muted on Vent because hearing their voices made me cringe.

The chances of you joining a server and having the other person’s voice be pleasing to the ear or even neutral are very low, compared to you getting someone who is obviously fresh off playing Call of Duty and feels he should be getting sick frags, and that anyone who kills him is a noob.

This is why you dont PUG, lol. If I am going to be completely honest my dungeon group will on occasion will need to bring in 1 pug to fill the group, and we are pretty strict on making sure the person is following our directions. Its not that we dont think that person is bad or incompetent, its just that our team does very specific things (Note – NOT exploits) and use our team work to ensure the fastest runs possible.

OP, the person you ran with is an idiot, and nothing more. I run a lot of dungeons, usually with guildies, but there are occasional pug groups or members. I fully admit to the group if I haven’t run a certain path as do other members of the group. I’ve run into my share of idiots, but it’s best to either ignore them, or simply choose not to group with them in the future.

When I first read the topic I was thinking of Dungeon Etiquette, such as random 10 minute AFK’s during the dungeon, not paying attention, pulling stuff when everyone clearly isn’t ready, things like that.

I have to say random AFK’s are one thing that dive me crazy more than idiots. Dungeons for the most part are fairly short. If you group up for a dungeon you’re expected to be there for the full duration. Emergencies happen, but I have a few people on my short-list I choose not to run with because I know I’m going to spend more time waiting around than actually playing.

Hastur Carcosa.2853:

So I just ran a dungeon a little while ago, and there was a guy in it that fancied himself a pretty big player in the dungeon world. He automatically called us noobs (Which we had already admitted that we hadn’t done a lot of dungeons) and then said we should follow what he says. He got mad at us for not doing what we were told (Some of it was useful, and we did our best to try to listen) but about a quarter way through we noticed something odd.

He was running through naked. Now, from what I understand of how it all works, taking off your armour is gonna really bring down your character’s ability. He said that he only puts his armour on for runs where the people aren’t pugs (He spoke that like an insult) and listen to his instructions. We were getting slaughtered here and there, especially on Subject Alpha. We got mad at him for not putting in his best effort, and kicked him from the group. We weren’t gonna have someone who wasn’t at full strength.

He then proceeds to go mental on us and basically start yelling that he’s gonna report us for griefing him and get us all banned. Anyway…

Do people often do this? Run a dungeon naked with noobs because you know you’ll get killed? He said this was perfectly acceptable, but it just made the dungeon that much harder (Having ran the dungeon the day before with a group of people at full strength I definitely noticed the difference, and that was with another group of newbies.)

I’d say common sense would dictate what kind of person you ran into here.

I do the bees part in TA fw up path (or w/e that one is with vevina) naked. Because they oneshot you no matter what, and unless you’re feeling particularly lucky that day, or have that path down to a T, you WILL die.

but the rest, no

This is what I do/believe.

When starting a pug in ANY dungeon REGARDLESS of how easy it’s SUPPOSED to be…..EXPECT DEATH. This is a pug. Not your battle hardened group of guildees who are leet to the teeth and know the ins and outs of everything and everyone. Nothing bugs me more than when people rage at their teammates for not doing this or not doing that correctly.
You’re in a pug. Not everyone is as good or as experienced as you. The strengths and weaknesses of the community are not dictated by your own. Get over yourself.

That being said I usually stay silent in the beginning of a pug run other than to say hi and engage in other idle chatter not pertaining to the task at hand.
This is because i’m following my personal rule No. 1.

Be observant.

What dungeon are you running? What path? What does your group consist of?

Obviously any make up of classes can complete a path but some combinations work better than others and over time this will become common knowledge. For example, an Elementalist’s summonable ice bow is ridiculously effective at taking down graveling burrows over say, a warrior’s greatsword (especially with the somewhat out of whack hit boxes on objects currently).

Knowing what you have and what you’re getting into will give you an admittedly vague but effective idea of what kind of experience you’re going to have. If you honestly feel as though your group will have trouble with an encounter that you don’t want to deal with then you can politely leave (make up some sort of excuse) right at the beginning of the run.

I did this in the middle of an AC run just the other night actually. My group’s DPS just was not vastly effective at taking down the burrows in Path 1. We were getting it, but still needed that extra oomph. I was becoming tired and so politely bowed out but before I did I exercised my rule #2.

Educate.

I believe that if you consistently complain about the supposed incompetence of other players but don’t actively try to help them learn from their mistakes (and yours), you’re part of the problem. I try and better the community at large little by little as best as I can with each pug because lets face it, a repair bill can be made back in a couple hours. Stop whining.

The AC run I mentioned is a perfect example. I was with a group who had the courage to say that they hadn’t run it before. Having done it half a million times, that unofficially put me as the leader. Leading and teaching is not such a daunting task. Doing something as simple as targeting priority mobs is enough to clue someone in to the mere fact that “oh, we need to kill that first.” I gave a rundown of the bosses before we encountered them and told them what to prepare for, giving them time to adjust their builds to fit the given situation. I allowed time for a guardian to adjust his build so he could help heal conditions off the group during the spider-queen for example.

So eventually, when it was getting late on my end and we had hit a bit of a wall, I told them that when I left they should bring in an elementalist as their ice bow/AoE would give them the DPS we were missing and help them conquer the burrow event.

So basically my rules are this:

1. Be observant.
2. Educate
3. Be patient.
4. Listen

Number 4 is probably tough for some people. Everyone has different tactics for varying bits of content. If your plan didn’t pan out for an event and someone else has a plan, try it out. Even if you have zero faith in the idea, humor them.

You just might discover a tactic you like better.

That’s just how I go about pugs for the most part anyway.

These experiences are fairly common and I had an experience early on when I was still learning the dungeons. I joined a group that stated they were doing all 3 paths and that alone gave me a hint that it would probably be an elitist group. Once I was in I saw that 4/5 were from the same guild and I was the only pug, but I went with it anyway because I knew I could probably get through it pretty quick with a 4/5premade. They preceded to literally sprint through the dungeon running past just about everything only stopping to do the “important” bosses to complete each path. Luckily, I am one of those players who can keep up pretty easily even with them sprinting through and so I did and we finished the dungeons pretty quick. I didn’t say a word through the entire thing and I was a bit surprised though that most of the content could be skipped and I thought to myself….if this was any other pug who couldn’t keep up like myself, they would be getting kicked or yelled at constantly. In path 3 exactly that happened. One of their guildies had to bail and they invited another pug who was nowhere near as experienced or quick and he was berated and spat on and the party disbanded.