Guild Wars 2

LordByron.8369:

No this is a good example of griefing…
And should not be accepted….

Only a couple of thing may be valid…..most of them are just wrong.

Did you read the OP’s clarifications? How is it griefing if they simply choose not to run with certain people? Elitist or not, everyone has the right to group with whom they wish. If the OP doesn’t like a guy pinging his drops and being super chatty during encounters, who are you to say he’s griefing when he kicks the person once the run is complete?

This is the reason I feel the thread failed, because it’s about etiquette and it’s being bogged down by rude people being hypocrites. The OP has shown they’re listening to others opinions and perspective and purely taking things like that into consideration is etiquette. Coming at them with a stone to grind and an argument to shout while ignoring the other stuff they say is rude.

Kuishen.6140:

You fail to qualify any of this with examples so I’m just gonna write this comment off as trolling. You also seem incapable of voicing your opinion without being insulting to others, it’s something you should probably work on.

newbie has a meaning……i wrote exactly the meaning i was giving to it so its not an insult….

Again, taken out of context. We don’t expect you to drop everything to raise a downed person. We do expect that if the monster isn’t targeting you and/or you have the means to do so quickly, you should probably be helping raise instead of just standing there shooting at the mob. If you’re being targeted by the monster and somebody goes down it is now your job to keep it off of the downed people until they can get up.

Your comment about how certain classes are made to only deal damage and others to survive is completely wrong. There may be classes that do certain things better than others, but every class has the potential to fulfill any role to an extent.

you talked about players..
A player has a profession and a build and THUS it could be a subpar class for ressing….

you are taking this out of context not me….

as said best thing is you just take a look on how aggro works….then start to work on ressing strategies that are a part of the game….

Again, taken out of context. If you need to communicate something during a battle, that’s fine. What’s not fine is taking the time to ping drops or talking about inane crap that isn’t relevant to what’s currently happening in a heated battle. If there is downtime during whatever you’re doing, then go ahead and make light conversation, but don’t do it in the middle of something that requires a certain degree of concentration.

pinging gear was another point….and i didn t quote that….
i quote typing…
You are free to communicate as much as you want….people can just answer when they can…..
Its not about concentration…and even if it was its not a reason to boot….
If you do you are doing something wrong

Once again, mistakes will be made, nobody is perfect. But repeatedly putting timewarp on yourself when you’re not standing with the group has no place in a game that is centric on group play. We’re not talking about using it to raise somebody, or accidentally hitting the wrong button. We’re talking about repeated misuse of an ability that benefits the entire team by only using it on yourself.

ask yourself…why only timewarp?….as i said.
Extend this to all skills

not selfish or anything but sometimes you just prefer to use your skills to not die…..and team cannot understand that because they are focused on their character….

Are you so good that you can determine the appropriate use of any skill during fights that as u said requires concentration?

i doubt it.

Um. Newsflash: Glitching is never a valid strategy, especially when in most cases nowadays it is used simply to save some time. I’m 99% sure that it’s against the ToS as well. What happens when they fix the glitch you’ve been using to breeze through a particular fight? You are left with a player who doesn’t understand the mechanics of a boss and is way less useful than he could be if he had just not been glitching it in the first place.

1st as said ToS is just useless….
The point is having clear thepurpose and consequences…

case A:
you exploit a recipe to get tons of ectos or abuse a path to get double reward

This is worst abusing…….and should n t be done

Case B:
Old glitch in cliffside:
Do you think that risking to be forced to whipe is better than saving an easy fight?

This was actually a workaround……to pass through a glitched part…..

Same can be said about mossman….somehow you have to recur to glitches (even looking at minimap is…) or you just end up dead by invisible 1shot Attacks…

And about dying on switches in dredge? a dead player should have no impact on game…
I wonder if you can keep the Whole party alive in underground fractal…

to end the thing…
Your problem is that you feel the right to decide what its right and what is not….
But you do not have such right and you can be free to block players (like i do sometime).
On the other hand kicking them for some reason you listed is just an abuse.

Feel free to LEAVE groups…..but kicking for most of reason you listed is actually griefing.

Good reason why my follower list is rally long is i know how to behave….and if i don t like something I LEAVE rather than kicking.

You want the reward while spoiling other of the same?
too easy….

I don’t like how you are writing off magic find and rangers and I would kick you if you brought that up.

Hi i tend to agree with some of what you said however there are some i dont like for instance people switching to ranged attacks there are times when it is a absolute must that you have to use ranged attacks in nearlly all the dungeons infact it winds me up when people dont have a ranged weapon to switch too as the situation demands. If you think it is possible to mellee every encounter then i have to question how many dungeons you have actually done.

I agree with most of the content, but not with the tone employed. To elaborate :

—Joining and immediately leaving
No harm done. You come in, don’t like what you see then leave. No time wasted.

—Arguing about how the dungeon is being run
Unless you have a perfect knowledge of the game (hint: no one does), you might actually learn something here.

—Wearing magic find gear
Agreed. Please remember that magic find doesn’t work on chests. If sacrificing a major stat for a marginal green/yellow drop on trash mobs looks like a good deal, stick with open world farming, please.

—Consistently not raising
Not agreed. I’m ok with the intention, not with the way you express it.
Priority to rez is a must. Being flamed by a party member that we didn’t rezzed because he was sitting in a high damage aoe field that meant instant down isn’t fun. Not taking the last few tics of the HP of a mob to stop and rez someone isn’t smart either.

—Misusing timewarp
That’s a matter of inexperience. I’d rather give a few tips for the player wanting to learn here.
On another note, when I run with another mesmer I always confer on whom does TW first.

I also find it quite useful to link [Time Warp] in the channel a few seconds before launching it to let party member prepare themselves.

—Going afk
As long as it’s announced and not too long, I don’t mind.

—Not having access to the area
Agreed. It never happened to me though.

—Not following targeting
Most of the time inexperience. Can be fixed with a “please press T to follow target”.

—Fake Politeness
Don’t understand this one. As long as you say hi at start / gg at the end, answer when you’re directly addressed and don’t flame / boss around the party channel, I’m okay.

—Glitching
We usually follow the majority here. On the other hand, don’t assume that people glitch / don’t glitch, ask. Same goes for Kohler. I used to always ask something along the line “Kohler, or skip?” to be sure everyone is on the same page.

—Moving crystals away from players during the Jade Maw fractal
Never happened to me, but I usually run fractals with guildies.

—Complaining about class/group setup
Yep. Worst that happened was a pug kicking out sub lvl80 in my party. Either leave right away or don’t complain.

—Ranged attacks, Scepter Guardians, Pistol Thieves, Rangers, Rifle Warriors, Thieves
Contradict the point above. All classes well played has a place in a party, and there’s a world out of the OP builds min maxing everything that can work brilliantly in a dungeon set up. I agree that most of the misconceptions about class efficiency comes from a lack of knowledge of the said class.

For example, one of my smoothest runs of Arah P3 was done with a thief guildie, a “ranged ranger”, another mesmer and a necro (yep, no signet warrior or guardian).

From experience, some perfect group setups can go terribly wrong and some “no way it’ll work” setups can end up working brilliantly. My favorite dungeon moment so far is a run of TA with 3 other mesmers and an elem.

On the other hand, I pugged in a CoF1 party advertised as “fast run exp. only” with 3 warriors and a thief (I was playing my Ele) that wasn’t able to down the slave driver. The group collapsed after three tries.

—Hounds of Motherkittening Balthazar
Seriously? As long as it doesn’t take the spot of a major party-beneficial elite, I don’t care.

—Entering the instance
As it has been pointed before, if you make me go out to own the instance, I’ll instantly suspect something fishy.

—Commander tags
Never happened to me. I usually find it hilarious to see these in PVE. The equivalent of a fake rollex / vuitton. You want to appear wealthy ? Show me some cultural T3 armour instead. It’s easier on the eye and it doesn’t pollute the mini-map.

—Joining on a character lower than 80 when you have one or multiple 80s
Don’t agree at all. I’d rather have someone enter with a sub 80 char rather than switch to a way below required lvl alt during final boss fight. If you’re pugging, ask the party if they don’t mind, and if they want a quick run or are in a narrow “no sub 80 mindset”, switch to your main. Another thing to consider is that a dungeon runner alt = a more experienced player. I usually have it easier with a sub 80 alt than a freshly levelled 80 main in my party.

—Splitting up mobs
I’d rather have a PUG take the cautious approach rather than rushing forward agroing all the room and making the party wipe.

My 2 cents. Thanks for taking the time to post this, that would justify a well earned sticky if it was written with just a tad more neutral point of view. More of a tutorial than a rage/rant feel, if you follow my drift.

Kuishen.6140:

@ Ari Kagura:

You literally state the reason why we do this in your fifth sentence: We’ve had too many people screw us over, so we eliminate the chance of it happening to us. I don’t see how that’s unreasonable and if you have a problem with it, that’s really not OUR problem. We get on to play the game to accomplish things, not have our time wasted because somebody decided to be a kitten, so we don’t take the chance.

We don’t take issue with people using whatever build they want, and LB’s post came off as a tad more abrasive than it needed to be in that particular area, but between the 3 of us we’ve played almost every class to 80, we know what the traits and weapons do and because of that we have an understanding that certain things simply aren’t as good as the alternative. This game is not perfectly balanced so there are always going to be things that are the “best”. We’re not gonna kick you for being a Longbow ranger or a Scepter guardian. We are however going to be watching how you utilize those skillsets and note if you’re doing it properly. If you aren’t, then we’re not gonna want to have anything to do with you after the run.

This is not a checklist that we require you to read before you join our group. This is common sense that we expect you to know about the game you play and if you don’t, then this post was to educate you so you can better yourself and better your gameplay experience for yourself and the people you play with.

Fair enough, but bullet points of some sort would always come off as some sort of list, whether that is a guideline, a checklist, or some sort of “requirement” to be part of your “cool club”.

As with the term “Common Sense”, I’ve learned that in the internet, common sense is not as common as I think it should be, which I suppose is one of the basic things that spawned this thread. Whatever seems like common sense here in North America may not always be common sense in European regions, and so on.

Lastly, I’m just saying that the opening posts seem to come off as kind of brash. There are some points I do agree with, like not using Magic Find, but other stuff just seem like it was written in a tone meant to troll people, which I don’t think is the intention.

LordByron you are clearly incapable of comprehending the point of this topic and are misinterpreting what we are saying, as well as being straight up incorrect at points.

ToS is useless? Oh ok. The very fact that you are sitting here defending using glitching on encounters that aren’t that hard to begin with completely boggles my mind and invalidates anything you have to say.

Mossman is incredibly easy to dodge. Whether he’s invisible or not, all you have to do is dodge a few seconds after he cloaks. It’s not rocket science and you don’t need to glitch to beat him.

There was never a point where Cliffside “forced you to wipe”. Unless you’re talking about the person with the hammer falling off the cliffs, in which case that is an acceptable consequence for somebody screwing up. I guess you’re saying you HAVE to dupe the hammer? No. You don’t.

Explain to me why WE should leave, when WE are the majority of the party and WE made the party. That doesn’t make any sense. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and are completely incoherent in parts of your posts.

@Lambros: Magic Find is a terrible stat and using Magic Find gear in a grou kitten elfish and there is no excuse for it. It doesn’t help anybody else in the group but yourself and lowers your efficiency by a significant amount, causing things to take more time and/or leading to more deaths.

The thing about Rangers is that 90% of the Rangers we’ve encountered all use only Longbow, don’t swap weapons and in general are terrible players, but like I said, we don’t kick people just because they’re on a specific class. We don’t even generally kick people for playing badly, we just don’t want anything to do with them after the run is over.

@Mark: I disagree. Every encounter in this game can be melee’d, as is being constantly proven with the videos that crop up with people accomplishing amazing things that other people have written off as “impossible”. I agree that is definitely advantageous to have a ranged weapon on hand at all times, as you should be flexible in your play style if the situation demands it. However our issue comes from people that only use ranged attacks when they have alternatives that are way more effective at the time.

That being said, there are a lot encounters that it is definitely easier to ranged attack than it is to melee. The easy way however isn’t always the best way.

As to the comment about dungeons, all 3 of us have the Dungeon Master title so we’ve done everything.

EDIT: @ Geofrroy: All of those points are things that you’re assuming we’re being unreasonable about. We get that crap happens and we don’t expect perfection and you’re taking some of those points way too literally.

As for Hounds of Balthazar: It ALWAYS takes the spot of an elite that is beneficial to the party.

Kuishen.6140:

EDIT: @ Geofrroy: All of those points are things that you’re assuming we’re being unreasonable about. We get that crap happens and we don’t expect perfection and you’re taking some of those points way too literally.

That’s why I said I agreed with the content, but not with the tone employed.
Please note that I’m not arguing for argument’s sake. I’ve added a couple of tips in there that weren’t in the OP, and I tried to add another PoV / mitigate where it was a bit exaggerating.

That said, I’m pretty sure I’ll enjoy pugging in your party. The follow up posts totally points toward you and your buddies being an efficient and courteous party of dungeon runners.

This is a horrible rant. Its a game, your group needs to relax. Must be like walking on egg shells in your TS or vent. Nobody should justify the play style they choose to anyone. OHH NOO! It took 5 minutes longer to kill this boss because that warrior was using a rifle. So he avoided getting downed for your benefit. Your the type of person I block. When playing any game it won’t be fun if others cannot adjust to different play styles.

Kuishen.6140:

LordByron you are clearly incapable of comprehending the point of this topic and are misinterpreting what we are saying, as well as being straight up incorrect at points.

Oh wait now i will for sure agree with you….
Or maybe not….
I m not misinterpreting…
I know what you are saying and i am saying look at your follower list…
I bet you don t have many friends…
Actually there may be a reason why people look for me in game and you instead have to block people….

ToS is useless?

law….you know….since lineage 2….and even before….
There is a rule in Eu that makes tos a waste of space….(despite they are OFTEN a good guidelines)

Oh ok. The very fact that you are sitting here defending using glitching on encounters that aren’t that hard to begin with completely boggles my mind and invalidates anything you have to say.

yeah seems i never was wrong i exactly (as many Others) seen you are actually an elitist….in the bad meaning of the word.

Mossman is incredibly easy to dodge. Whether he’s invisible or not, all you have to do is dodge a few seconds after he cloaks. It’s not rocket science and you don’t need to glitch to beat him.

false… don t need even to discuss…

There was never a point where Cliffside “forced you to wipe”. Unless you’re talking about the person with the hammer falling off the cliffs, in which case that is an acceptable consequence for somebody screwing up. I guess you’re saying you HAVE to dupe the hammer? No. You don’t.

look at old patchnotes….
This is the point.
You overvalue your experience way too much…..

Explain to me why WE should leave, when WE are the majority of the party and WE made the party.

game has COMMON rules….if you made some and
1) didn t write them in gw2 lfg
2) are not universally accepted as good behavior (yours clearly are not as most replies here proves) then you have no rights to spoil people of their reward.

majority is community ….so majority of players defined an etiquette different from yours with anet guidelines……

So you are actually a minority….
If you explain your weird etiquette to anyone joining your party….no problem…..otherwise, your kick is an actual abuse expecially toward the end of a dungeon.

commander tags outside wvw (unless they turned them on to highlight a meta event – which has been useful in describing to newbies where boss events are) make me horribly annoyed

not entering the instance unless youre the party creator seems a bit… well… stupid to me, it makes no difference (unless you’re idiotic enough to try to switch chars… or leave the party before tokens are awarded…), i enter any dungeon that may become contested as soon as i can, whether im party leader or not. And (it hasnt happened to me in particular) ive been in two groups where someone has been kicked to make room for another guild member mid run (once with only two of the offending guild members; once with three)

i also kind of disagree with the ressing part; mainly because you didnt mention how often you can ignore them and just kill something they tagged (ive had so many party members who try ressing me when a mob next to me is like… 5% health)
- and some other situations i dont res in (alpha if the player isnt meleeing-and isnt being targetted by the real aoe and TA-any part with blossoms)
-ele vapor form and mesmers downed decoy annoy me too; players tend to use them when they’re not in danger (ive played with eles who get downed in melee range at alpha -with 4 players around them- and they mist form away from alpha; it doesnt make sense)

i also dont see whats wrong with linking drops inbetween fights (you state that its only the end of the run that players should do it); it takes three keypresses (i>ctrl+mouseclick)
- though i do agree with not in combat

Dungeons are fine. Can’t remember when was the last time I had any problem with people or with the gameplay, and I go with different, random people each time.
Just don’t join: “OMG NEED ZERKER WAR SPEED CLEAR FAST FAST CAN’T LOSE 1 SECOND” groups and you’ll be fine.

Kuishen.6140:

As for Hounds of Balthazar: It ALWAYS takes the spot of an elite that is beneficial to the party.

On the top of my head, I can think of :
- Elem : elite are either tornado, greatsword or elemental. Tornado isn’t useful in PVE, greatsword is situational and Elemental is extra DPS (fire) or weak tank (earth). That’s why one of my guildies now prefers the golem invocation asura race skill rather than the elemental (same DPS, same tanking ability, no need to change attunement to invoke the right one).

- Thief : invoked thiefs = Extra DPS, twirling blades = Extra melee DPS (not sure about the third one, I haven’t unlocked it on my thief yet, but I think it’s a glitched poison buff ?).

- Necro : Plague form isn’t very efficient, Lych form = extra DPS, Elite minion makes only sense when accordingly traited (Minion Master builds).

I think each of these classes can use hounds without removing anything major to the party.

On the other hand, using hound instead of tomes for a guardian or instead of time warp / mass invisibility for a mesmer is majorly detrimental for the party.

Geoffroy.3685:

Kuishen.6140:

As for Hounds of Balthazar: It ALWAYS takes the spot of an elite that is beneficial to the party.

On the top of my head, I can think of :
- Elem : elite are either tornado, greatsword or elemental. Tornado isn’t useful in PVE, greatsword is situational and Elemental is extra DPS (fire) or weak tank (earth). That’s why one of my guildies now prefers the golem invocation asura race skill rather than the elemental (same DPS, same tanking ability, no need to change attunement to invoke the right one).

- Thief : invoked thiefs = Extra DPS, twirling blades = Extra melee DPS (not sure about the third one, I haven’t unlocked it on my thief yet, but I think it’s a glitched poison buff ?).

- Necro : Plague form isn’t very efficient, Lych form = extra DPS, Elite minion makes only sense when accordingly traited (Minion Master builds).

I think each of these classes can use hounds without removing anything major to the party.

On the other hand, using hound instead of tomes for a guardian or instead of time warp / mass invisibility for a mesmer is majorly detrimental for the party.

i think thieves guild is better that hounds of balth (minus the leap finisher), but havent tested (basilisk venom turns enemies to stone; which bypasses defiant afaik)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Elemental
- they have extra effects (unless your friend is capitalising on the absorbtion shield?), recharge faster and last longer

plague is amazing in dungeons; aoe blind spam and massive increase in the ability to take hits (if anything can hit you with all the blind you pump out)

The OP’s rant makes me glad that I’m not part of his group. Sounds like s/he has a problem with communication, which would easily solve a lot of the problems listed.

And if you’re with a group of casual players just going at a dungeon for fun, a lot of this stuff is just fine.

While the OP makes some good points, things like “No scepter Guardians, no thieves” kill any chance that this thread should get a sticky for etiquette.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

i think thieves guild is better that hounds of balth (minus the leap finisher), but havent tested (basilisk venom turns enemies to stone; which bypasses defiant afaik)

Noted. Basilisk Vemon sounds interesting, I’ll have to try this one out.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Elemental
- they have extra effects (unless your friend is capitalising on the absorbtion shield?), recharge faster and last longer

I thought the skill were nearly similar and therefore swappable. The elemental usually dies before the end of the skill duration in dungeons, so the difference in duration doesn’t matter much… the longer cool down on the other hand seems like a no-go. I’ll have to ask him.
I think the shield golem may be doing marvels on Lupi though…

For the elemental the water variation doesn’t heal enough to be viable, and the air variation’s stun isn’t reliable enough to be useful. That leaves you with fire (raw DPS) and Earth (Tank) as viable variations, but have to switch to the corresponding attunement to launch them, which can be an inconvenience, as you have to adapt your attunement rotation to cast the one you want (not too much of a hassle, but my guildie seems to prefer the other option).

Linguistically Inept.6583:

plague is amazing in dungeons; aoe blind spam and massive increase in the ability to take hits (if anything can hit you with all the blind you pump out)

Usually there’s always a mob outside of the AoE that ticks away at my HP and most of the PUGs doesn’t know about blindness spamming in plague form, so they don’t take advantage of it. I don’t know the actual numbers, but DPS seems to take huge drop comparing to the usual axe/focus vulnerability spamming / death shroud might building rotation also.

EDIT : On the other hand, offhand Dagger skill #4 has a 6 sec blind on 15sec CD that can be extended with the right traits (shorter CD) et and the right runes / food buff (extra cond. duration) with great direct damages (dagger auto attack, or axe in main hand). That may be worth some time to investigate.

I haven’t run a lot of dungeons with my necro (she’s freshly levelled to 80), so I don’t have much experience to share there.

Kuishen.6140:

As part of LB’s group:

All of these come down to one simple fact: Don’t waste our time. It’s disrespectful.

As someone who is not a kitten:

You’re a kitten. Cool, you have your group preferences. They’re hardly proper etiquette on a grander scale for the game.

Kuishen,
Yes, I think your comment “Don’t waste our time. It’s disrespectful” deserved an insult because:
1) You don’t need PUG if you are that efficient. And if you need PUG to help to do your job, then you are not efficient, either you are not that good to clear the content w/ a minimum party or your guild isn’t that good to fill a party w/ its own guild members. What’s so hard not to understand this even for any person having lowest education standard? Oh you said, you need them so you can teach them how efficient you guys are doing? I’ve never seen any lie this blatant.
2) Because of (1, you need PUG) and you act on them as if they are slave to your will, what does that tell us? You use them for your benefit and turn around boasting that’s for their benefit. Hahaha.

So quit dancing around it. The issue is you need them. And if you need them, be nice to them. You need PUG, use them for your benefit and at the same time, tell them to slave for your will then what kind of people you are?

Etiquette is a desired behavior we wish PUG have if we need them. That doesn’t give you the right to enforce them as if you slave them to your will. I was pretty reasonable w/ the OP even the tone of the 1st post is pretty harsh, until you show up. W/ a person like you in that group, all the benefits of the doubt I gave you guys are gone. Birds of a feather flock together. You ought to remember that.

Your post was good until the part: Rifle warriors and thieves/rangers suck part….

It is a shame it looses all credibility because such an elitist and unpractical way of thinking.

Rifle warriors? seriously? Who says theres only way to play a class? Grow up.

Rangers and thieves are awesome in skilled hands regardless the weapons they are using…

For me a player who thinks theres only one way to play a class/profession is the ultimate jerk, and for sure I dont want to play with people like that.

Lol, with so many rules maybe you should just make your guild 2 ppl bigger and post them for everyone.

There are no rules when you PuG, it could go either way. There are some common courtesies yes.

What you should do is post these to the PuGs before you start every run LOL. And see what they do and post back with the results. My guess is you will be running them with your 3 members.

“Ranged attacks, Scepter Guardians, Pistol Thieves, Rangers, Rifle Warriors, Thieves”

i sort of have an issue with this section

my main (and currently only 80) character is a thief, and i run dungeons very often, whenever my group is fighting trash or a boss that is simply deadly at melee (can’t see the cues to dodge) i use my shortbow. it has aoe built in and a spammable blast finisher (which is amazing paired with elementalists or rangers)

also, i’m not exactly sure by what you mean as a “support thief”, i’m only able to give boons through thrill of the crime stealing (which i use on cd), and occasionally i can stealth people, though with the nerf to stealth it’s not as useful as before. not to mention the fact that no one ever seems to stand behind my smokescreen when it’s up even though i usually announce it in chat

Clearing up a few things:

We recruit via gw2lfg and are always clear about how we’re doing our run. The two main points are we’re not skipping monsters and we’re not glitching. That’s the first time these things are mentioned, and they’re mentioned again before we enter the instance. If someone does either of those things, we clarify again that we’re not doing them. It’s usually around this point, around the start of a run, that people argue with us about it (as in, yelling and telling us we’re wrong) or do it anyway. This is also the point that we remove people, around the start of the run.

Unless someone is being extremely — extremely — obnoxious, we won’t remove them in the middle of a dungeon. Almost always the people are removed between dungeon runs (we post that we’re doing multiple). Of course that isn’t 100% of the time, maybe 10~% of people we kick are being ridiculous.

Other than those two major points, we don’t really care what you do. It’s just when you’re doing a ton of those things on the list to the point that we ask you to stop and you continue to do it that we remove you afterwards. That’s it, no biggie. I’m really against people being thrown out of a group midway into a dungeon.

At any point if someone is doing something we/I don’t approve of we/I try to resolve it. For example, timewarp: oh hey, this guy threw time warp on himself, away from the monster. I’ll send him a message asking if he doesn’t mind moving up and throwing it on the rest of the party. If he ignores me, whatever. If he changes his style, great. If he argues with me, well in this case I’m just like whoa, but I’ll at least hear out his side of the argument.

As such I don’t view this as an obstacle course of requirements to join our group. Personally I don’t have expectations of anyone, I just kind of hope they’re not rude.

Luciusbrimstone.7925:

Clearing up a few things:

We recruit via gw2lfg and are always clear about how we’re doing our run. The two main points are we’re not skipping monsters and we’re not glitching. That’s the first time these things are mentioned, and they’re mentioned again before we enter the instance. If someone does either of those things, we clarify again that we’re not doing them. It’s usually around this point, around the start of a run, that people argue with us about it (as in, yelling and telling us we’re wrong) or do it anyway. This is also the point that we remove people, around the start of the run.

Unless someone is being extremely — extremely — obnoxious, we won’t remove them in the middle of a dungeon. Almost always the people are removed between dungeon runs (we post that we’re doing multiple). Of course that isn’t 100% of the time, maybe 10~% of people we kick are being ridiculous.

Other than those two major points, we don’t really care what you do. It’s just when you’re doing a ton of those things on the list to the point that we ask you to stop and you continue to do it that we remove you afterwards. That’s it, no biggie. I’m really against people being thrown out of a group midway into a dungeon.

At any point if someone is doing something we/I don’t approve of we/I try to resolve it. For example, timewarp: oh hey, this guy threw time warp on himself, away from the monster. I’ll send him a message asking if he doesn’t mind moving up and throwing it on the rest of the party. If he ignores me, whatever. If he changes his style, great. If he argues with me, well in this case I’m just like whoa, but I’ll at least hear out his side of the argument.

As such I don’t view this as an obstacle course of requirements to join our group. Personally I don’t have expectations of anyone, I just kind of hope they’re not rude.

This makes much more sense. They way you worded your OP made it sound like a checklist of follow these or be kicked. This post makes you sound reasonable.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

commander tags outside wvw (unless they turned them on to highlight a meta event – which has been useful in describing to newbies where boss events are) make me horribly annoyed

My guild uses my tag to run dailies together. It’s hard to keep 20+ people together otherwise. If I could hide it from the minimap and only show it to my squad, I would.

Some other things I wanted to respond to, mostly classes:

Ranged attacks: It’s a pet peeve. It’s been said a few times in the thread and I agree, melee 100% of the time isn’t ideal. There are plenty of cases where you just don’t want to get into melee range.

My concern within that category is more of a generalization: I see these builds and associate them with a lot of bad experiences. There’s a minor thing about less synergy with ranged attacks (as opposed to everyone clustering around the mob to support each other) but that’s certainly debatable/definitely not 100% true.

Scepter Guardian: I’m not saying it’s useless; I believe it’s the 3 that’s the aoe? That move is great for large, smaller groups of mobs and I can see it as a reasonable offhand. I can also totally understand why you would use ranged over a melee alternative: a large amount of players stick to range, so the benefits of guardian melee weapons aren’t nearly as useful. In that case, yeah no, scepter is a sound choice as it’s the most powerful ranged guardian has. Hammer is incredible but you really have to spec for it, and then the group has to be clustered for it to have use. All of that said, I still get a twinge and go hm when I see a scepter guardian because, despite it being their high damage ranged weapon, the guardian’s I’ve seen using it don’t do much if any damage. Just an association I’ve made.

Thief: The problem, as some others have said, is that it offers very little in the categories of team play. That’s not the player’s fault, sure. Hell, the stuff it offers isn’t even that useful. Shadow refuge is a great team skill at times though, as is stealth (dredge fractal). But like scepter guardians I just have this… image of players on thief not contributing a large amount to the group.

Engineer: Yeah no, when I play my engineer I run a grenade/vulnerability build. I tried flamethrower one and didn’t like it as much. It seemed like less damage despite being specced towards it, and then the lack of vulnerability just bleh. I didn’t like it but I definitely see flamethrower as a viable option.

—Commander tags: I had not considered the commander chat. It really is something I always forget. I can respect that.

Why I singled out timewarp: Don’t get me wrong, I think all of the mesmer elites are very useful. That’s just the one I see the most mishaps with. And as I said earlier, I try to clear those up when I can.

Nikaido.3457:

I agree with a lot of the points mentioned, so the ones I mention will be those I disagree with :

lvl80: just state that you only want lvl80 in your lfg post, otherwise it’s your problem.
leaving a party: sorry but you’re not the master of anyone, if we don’t like your group we are free to leave, simple as that.
starting the instance: asking to leave will just show suspicion as to whether you’re the type to kick right before the end and we’ll just leave the party.
- commander tag
If the presence of an innocent tag on the map makes you angry, you have serious issues and I say that as someone who does NOT have said commander tag. I just don’t give a kitten. If you felt that something like that was worth mentioning that says a lot about you, and I certainly don’t want to run with someone like you.

You don’t like pugs, they don’t like you either, just recruit more people into your guild, pugs aren’t slaves that have to submit to your every desire.

The points about combat strategy (rez, not splitting mob, not being ranged all the time) are sound though. But you are out of your mind if you think that we are your little slave to your crappy guild run. The pugs you recruit are not your tool, if they hate your group they are free to leave. Most of the pugging is done with other pugs, if pugs stumble upon things like being extra little slave to a small time but highly controlling guild they are free to leave and you’ll have no say whatsoever in that decision.

Think this just said it all, you make some valid points but…. just read the above, dont need to add anything actually =|

I wanted to save this one as a personal little side thing:

Geofrroy, I really enjoyed reading your posts.

Basilisk venom is really amazing in pvp, though I’m not sure if I’d run it in pve. As for hounds.. well, I just think each class has a better alternative. I can see someone justifying hounds in the world for a class like warrior that doesn’t summon pets if they wanted that but past that I don’t think there’s much utility there.

Personally, for ele, I run tornado and almost never use it. I try to save it as an oh-kitten button if we need to spread mobs out, or if I need extra health for some reason. Almost always backfires and gets me killed since I lose access to my normal skills, but whatever. Flaming sword is powerful but I’m not built for it (currently playing around with an auramancer, so losing one or two auras from my weapon skills hurts). Elemental.. I just see it as a more viable alternative to the hounds. The elemental, even earth elemental, still dies a lot in dungeons though, and that’s when he isn’t running off by himself to solo the dredge boss we’re trying not to aggro (I swear I don’t know that guy).

You would have to do a lot less back-tracking and clarifying things to save face if your original post didn’t make you sound like an arrogant, whiny brat. Mixing in a some valid points with other, much less valid points does not soften it any.

Right now it is hard to tell whether or not you actually act/think the way you are “clarifying” based on reading your original post in its entirety and the response from one of your mates which, quite honestly, did nothing but make you both look like pricks.

In any case, it might be cool to have a sticky about etiquette. However, this thread certainly shouldn’t be the one.

Oolune.4357:

You would have to do a lot less back-tracking and clarifying things to save face if your original post didn’t make you sound like an arrogant, whiny brat. Mixing in a some valid points with other, much less valid points does not soften it any.

Right now it is hard to tell whether or not you actually act/think the way you are “clarifying” based on reading your original post in its entirety and the response from one of your mates which, quite honestly, did nothing but make you both look like pricks.

In any case, it might be cool to have a sticky about etiquette. However, this thread certainly shouldn’t be the one.

Completely agree. I can’t believe some people are asking this be stickied. If you do sticky it, sticky it as an example of somebody who you shouldn’t run dungeons with. This is way too controlling, not to mention some of it is just bad info.

Luciusbrimstone.7925:

Some other things I wanted to respond to, mostly classes:

Ranged attacks: It’s a pet peeve. It’s been said a few times in the thread and I agree, melee 100% of the time isn’t ideal. There are plenty of cases where you just don’t want to get into melee range.

My concern within that category is more of a generalization: I see these builds and associate them with a lot of bad experiences. There’s a minor thing about less synergy with ranged attacks (as opposed to everyone clustering around the mob to support each other) but that’s certainly debatable/definitely not 100% true.

Scepter Guardian: I’m not saying it’s useless; I believe it’s the 3 that’s the aoe? That move is great for large, smaller groups of mobs and I can see it as a reasonable offhand. I can also totally understand why you would use ranged over a melee alternative: a large amount of players stick to range, so the benefits of guardian melee weapons aren’t nearly as useful. In that case, yeah no, scepter is a sound choice as it’s the most powerful ranged guardian has. Hammer is incredible but you really have to spec for it, and then the group has to be clustered for it to have use. All of that said, I still get a twinge and go hm when I see a scepter guardian because, despite it being their high damage ranged weapon, the guardian’s I’ve seen using it don’t do much if any damage. Just an association I’ve made.

Thief: The problem, as some others have said, is that it offers very little in the categories of team play. That’s not the player’s fault, sure. Hell, the stuff it offers isn’t even that useful. Shadow refuge is a great team skill at times though, as is stealth (dredge fractal). But like scepter guardians I just have this… image of players on thief not contributing a large amount to the group.

Engineer: Yeah no, when I play my engineer I run a grenade/vulnerability build. I tried flamethrower one and didn’t like it as much. It seemed like less damage despite being specced towards it, and then the lack of vulnerability just bleh. I didn’t like it but I definitely see flamethrower as a viable option.

—Commander tags: I had not considered the commander chat. It really is something I always forget. I can respect that.

Why I singled out timewarp: Don’t get me wrong, I think all of the mesmer elites are very useful. That’s just the one I see the most mishaps with. And as I said earlier, I try to clear those up when I can.

I respect your right to these opinions, some of which I share. However, your post about etiquette would have been better served by sticking to things people do that are impolite or rude. It might have been better to keep, “There are more efficient ways to play and less efficient ways” to another topic. It seems like your approach to people whose play does not suit you is to not do further runs with them. Better to have left it at that than to add personal preferences to a post about manners.

@Oolune: Actually we’re not backpedaling, we’re having to clarify to people who seemingly only read the bullet point and not the actual explanation beneath said point. People are also taking things entirely too literally, assuming we’re kittens on any of those points. Should he have put the minor things that annoy us into that list? Maybe not, but he qualified each of those in the explanation with “This is more of an annoyance than anything.”

So if people actually had some reading comprehension this thread would still be on the first page.

@SkyChef: Again goes to reading comprehension, nowhere are we requiring people to do anything other than be reasonable and listen to how we, the majority of the group, are going to be running the dungeon. If they have a problem with that they can leave. Yes, we do need PUGs, because the game’s instances are built around 5 people and we came from another game and there are only 3 of us.

We have resorted to doing dungeons with just the 3 of us because we haven’t wanted to deal with other people, but guess what? That’s not ideal. And our “guild not being good enough” has nothing to do with our lack of wanting certain types of people in our guild. Are you implying that we’re wrong because we want people to play a certain way, yet you’re sitting there telling us to suck it up and play with certain people all the time? Hi kettle, I’m pot, did you know you’re black?

Almost all of the negative responses in this thread have come down to taking things way too literally and poor reading comprehension.

Wow, if you guys consider all of those things as negative dungeon influences I would just uninstall right now. People who do things you hate are a part of life and they are always going to exist. By looking at this list, I can assume they will exist in a vast majority of people you run with. If I were you, I would just avoid dungeons altogether as you will be a very exhausted person trying to tolerate instead of accept the failures of other people.

I have run with people that get upset at such trivial things and let me tell you, that’s why we have the kick feature.

all I can say is WOW you guys run a harsh group.

Scepter is one of Guardian’s 2 ranged options, and the only one with 1,200 range. Kinda important to keep one around for fights that are not melee friendly (there are a lot of those, especially in fractals), or for pulling. no the damage isn’t great, but low damage is better than being dead

Thieves (as it’s been posted) have kitten for party support. They do damage, they (when played well) can evade very well. They can spread some nice conditions (although not as well as a necro)… and that’s about it. Support options are Smoke Screen and Shadow Refuge, the first is nice if you can blind / need blocked projectiles, the second is nice for losing agro / running.

As far as skipping content, if you don’t say you’re NOT doing it… I’m going to generally assume that you are. If I don’t know how for that dungeon I’ll ask first, and follow to the best of my ability and learn quickly (especially for multi-runs)

lets see….

magic find gear… do you ask for all gear ping before a dungeon? I mean… that’s elitest right there, can’t deny it. I’m not going to say I wouldn’t rather nobody ran it, and that it’s not selfish, but hey if we can clear the content than fine.

Following Targeting can be a pain sometimes, especially if you’re mobile and stupid right-click targeting changes up what you’re attacking (often!). Maybe you’re just cleaning house with all the other stuff and not dieing…. again if you’re not getting yourself killed have at it.

as far as the Jade Maw fractal… if you’re not moving them all away at the final bit where he targets everyone. I expect everyone to know how to dodge roll. you don’t need a crystal at your feet.

and finally…. you don’t have to be level 80 to do a good job in the dungeon. and you can easily be level 80 and completely suck at playing your job. Go take a look at level scaling sometime it actually matches up well to best at your level = best at lowered level. And you could go watch the AC low level run that was done a week or two ago too.

Given your post I have a REALLY hard time believing that you stand up to the concept of not having a hard time helping new players if they don’t play perfectly your way you feel justified in kicking them.

Teleniel.1809:

all I can say is WOW you guys run a harsh group.

lets see….

magic find gear… do you ask for all gear ping before a dungeon? I mean… that’s elitest right there, can’t deny it. I’m not going to say I wouldn’t rather nobody ran it, and that it’s not selfish, but hey if we can clear the content than fine.

.

Unfortunately after many many many many hours of my time wasted by magic finders I am forced to gear check to avoid incident. This is not something I wish to do, but history has not been kind to my parties.

swiftpaw.6397:

Teleniel.1809:

all I can say is WOW you guys run a harsh group.

lets see….

magic find gear… do you ask for all gear ping before a dungeon? I mean… that’s elitest right there, can’t deny it. I’m not going to say I wouldn’t rather nobody ran it, and that it’s not selfish, but hey if we can clear the content than fine.

.

Unfortunately after many many many many hours of my time wasted by magic finders I am forced to gear check to avoid incident. This is not something I wish to do, but history has not been kind to my parties.

Stats =/= skill

Luciusbrimstone.7925:

Basilisk venom is really amazing in pvp, though I’m not sure if I’d run it in pve. As for hounds.. well, I just think each class has a better alternative. I can see someone justifying hounds in the world for a class like warrior that doesn’t summon pets if they wanted that but past that I don’t think there’s much utility there.

Actually, I agree with you. There’s generally a more OP option in the choice of elite. I don’t see it as a big infraction though. It’s way lower than the selfish 5-signet warrior zerker that insults the party for not buffing him efficiently enough to survive in the pyramid of Pug obnoxiousness in my opinion.

Luciusbrimstone.7925:

Personally, for ele, I run tornado and almost never use it. I try to save it as an oh-kitten button if we need to spread mobs out, or if I need extra health for some reason. Almost always backfires and gets me killed since I lose access to my normal skills, but whatever. Flaming sword is powerful but I’m not built for it (currently playing around with an auramancer, so losing one or two auras from my weapon skills hurts). Elemental.. I just see it as a more viable alternative to the hounds. The elemental, even earth elemental, still dies a lot in dungeons though, and that’s when he isn’t running off by himself to solo the dredge boss we’re trying not to aggro (I swear I don’t know that guy).

I have mixed feelings too with my alts elites. I started the game with a mesmer and still exclusively use her for my high-end dungeon running. Time Warp (and Mass Invisibility in a mesure) brings so much to the table that I cannot help but feel underwhelmed by my Ele and my Necro elites.

Back to the Elementalist. I tried tornado, but it usually end up with me being down, so scrapped it enterely (the underwater variation is awesome though).

My ele guild buddy loves greatsword because, let’s admit it, it’s super fun to play, even though it generally means death for both him and the other poor fellow that couldn’t resist wielding the extra one (usually my regular Arah-running compañero whom happens to be a thief – you can’t get any more squishy).

For my part, I defaulted to the elemental, though I generally take it out only in hairy situations where the extra tanking of the Earth one (I only use this one) may make a significant difference in the outcome of the fight (making my classes with TW and its huge cool downs forces you to be considerate with elite timing).

On a side note, I actually thought about this thread yesterday evening during a notably horrendous Arah run (we didn’t even get to Lupi… that says a lot), and unfortunately can no longer say that waiting for someone to run across three maps never happened to me…

It also made me realize about a bullet you forgot on your checklist :
— Don’t lie about knowing the run.

Chill guys. PUGS will always be PUGS. Respect them and you’ll earn theirs. There’ll always be things that PUGS will kitten you out so just accept it because this is just a game. It will be quite impossible to set standards because Guild Wars 2 has a community of mixed cultures. What seems right to one might not be to the other. Of course there are things that are obviously right or wrong. We all be judges.

Kuishen.6140:

LordByron you are clearly incapable of comprehending the point of this topic and are misinterpreting what we are saying, as well as being straight up incorrect at points.

ToS is useless? Oh ok. The very fact that you are sitting here defending using glitching on encounters that aren’t that hard to begin with completely boggles my mind and invalidates anything you have to say.

Mossman is incredibly easy to dodge. Whether he’s invisible or not, all you have to do is dodge a few seconds after he cloaks. It’s not rocket science and you don’t need to glitch to beat him.

There was never a point where Cliffside “forced you to wipe”. Unless you’re talking about the person with the hammer falling off the cliffs, in which case that is an acceptable consequence for somebody screwing up. I guess you’re saying you HAVE to dupe the hammer? No. You don’t.

Explain to me why WE should leave, when WE are the majority of the party and WE made the party. That doesn’t make any sense. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and are completely incoherent in parts of your posts.

@Lambros: Magic Find is a terrible stat and using Magic Find gear in a grou kitten elfish and there is no excuse for it. It doesn’t help anybody else in the group but yourself and lowers your efficiency by a significant amount, causing things to take more time and/or leading to more deaths.

The thing about Rangers is that 90% of the Rangers we’ve encountered all use only Longbow, don’t swap weapons and in general are terrible players, but like I said, we don’t kick people just because they’re on a specific class. We don’t even generally kick people for playing badly, we just don’t want anything to do with them after the run is over.

@Mark: I disagree. Every encounter in this game can be melee’d, as is being constantly proven with the videos that crop up with people accomplishing amazing things that other people have written off as “impossible”. I agree that is definitely advantageous to have a ranged weapon on hand at all times, as you should be flexible in your play style if the situation demands it. However our issue comes from people that only use ranged attacks when they have alternatives that are way more effective at the time.

That being said, there are a lot encounters that it is definitely easier to ranged attack than it is to melee. The easy way however isn’t always the best way.

As to the comment about dungeons, all 3 of us have the Dungeon Master title so we’ve done everything.

EDIT: @ Geofrroy: All of those points are things that you’re assuming we’re being unreasonable about. We get that crap happens and we don’t expect perfection and you’re taking some of those points way too literally.

As for Hounds of Balthazar: It ALWAYS takes the spot of an elite that is beneficial to the party.

Don’t bother with Lord Byron and Lambros, they are lost causes and should be avoided and ignored.

I enjoyed the parts where OP was like “Don’t complain about the class makeup” followed by a post complaining about certain classes.

:shrug:

To each their own. I’m an elistist kitten, so I probably wouldn’t go with any of those classes anyway, but the contradiction was fun.

I also don’t pug, so it just avoids this drama anyway.

@ Geoffroy. thanks for your 1st post. kept me from typing out pretty much the same thing.

Only thing I could add is how silly I find “Joining on a character lower than 80 when you have one or multiple 80s”. I have no problems with a LFG that say 80s only, that’s fine but I’ve had plenty of smooth runs with full groups of low lvl players, total disasters with full geared 80s, and vice versa. Sure, good gear and having traits open certainly helps but the proper tool in the hands of someone who doesn’t know how to use it is still useless. Skill counts for a lot in this game. I seen a ton of low lvl alts do just fine, I enjoy lvling alts like this myself and it’s never been a problem.

There were some good points in the OP but the harsh attitude is not something I would consider proper “Dungeon Etiquette” any more than a misplaced time warp.

Aank.4837:

@ Geoffroy. thanks for your 1st post. kept me from typing out pretty much the same thing.

Glad to be of some assistance

Aank.4837:

Only thing I could add is how silly I find “Joining on a character lower than 80 when you have one or multiple 80s”. I have no problems with a LFG that say 80s only, that’s fine but I’ve had plenty of smooth runs with full groups of low lvl players, total disasters with full geared 80s, and vice versa. Sure, good gear and having traits open certainly helps but the proper tool in the hands of someone who doesn’t know how to use it is still useless. Skill counts for a lot in this game. I seen a ton of low lvl alts do just fine, I enjoy lvling alts like this myself and it’s never been a problem.

A lot of people think that showing a toon with full gear and max level is a guarantee of efficiency. It’s not. You can fully gear up by doing easy PvE content and wander for the first time in a dungeon not knowing better.

(It happens a lot with map chat recruiting for Arah, with people freshly anointed “Savior of Tyria” for downing Zaithan in story mode.)

We’re sufficiently far from release to have a lot of dungeon hobbyist leveling up their third or fourth reroll. It’s not a perfect metric either, but I find looking at the achievement points far more telling than a gear check :
- 3000+ points on a lvl35 AC runner = this guy knows his stuff most of the time,
- 600~800 points on a self declared “pro runner” with shiny zerker exotics kicking out low lvl joiners left and right = prepare yourself for a hard time.

I’ve been proven wrong from time to time, of course. But not often enough to invalidate this metric.

Funny story:
A couple of days ago I was trying my hand with my necro reroll (lvl 60 at the time) on AC story. The pug consisted of a couple of newcomers (lvl40ish first char), two freshly leveled to 80 first chars and me. After boasting about “having finished Arah a long time ago” (his words, verbatim), one of the lvl80 proceeded to make us wipe time and time again running around in melee like a headless chicken until finally rage-quitting after dying from using Vengeance (I promise, I have nothing against warrior as profession, it just tend to attract a lot of bad players from my experience) on the Ascalonian captain (in the corridor before meeting with Eir) while I was rezzing him.

Of course, he had around 600 achievement points to show for his feats.

Valid points, but awful, terrible attitude. Which makes it hard to accept even though most people agree with most of your points.

I assume you are sincere about bringing into the public some attention about manners and curtsey, so you might want to try talking about it as part of the crowed instead of making it feel like you are standing at a righteous position while pointing fingers at the fools who should have known better. Just easier to convince people that way.

But I got to say, for me, some of your points are jarring to the point where it overshadows the valid ones. If you are suggesting excluding a large portion of the player base, because you want most of them to melee or play a certain build, then that’s not an etiquette. This is perfect for your guild recruitment message for a hardcore dungeon crawling guild looking for experienced players.

Sometimes respect and attitude is everything, don’t just let the facts blind you. I cannot help but feel the contempt you and your fellow Kuishen share towards the so called pugs (which is other peoples guildies). Doesn’t matter if you really intended to, but it came out that way.

Community service done properly?
Here is a hint:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Arah-Vets-grouping-together-to-do-Arah-Runs/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Arah-Vet-here-to-help-you-with-Arah-runs/first

Kuishen.6140:

@Oolune: Actually we’re not backpedaling, we’re having to clarify to people who seemingly only read the bullet point and not the actual explanation beneath said point. People are also taking things entirely too literally, assuming we’re kittens on any of those points. Should he have put the minor things that annoy us into that list? Maybe not, but he qualified each of those in the explanation with “This is more of an annoyance than anything.”

So if people actually had some reading comprehension this thread would still be on the first page.

@SkyChef: Again goes to reading comprehension, nowhere are we requiring people to do anything other than be reasonable and listen to how we, the majority of the group, are going to be running the dungeon. If they have a problem with that they can leave. Yes, we do need PUGs, because the game’s instances are built around 5 people and we came from another game and there are only 3 of us.

We have resorted to doing dungeons with just the 3 of us because we haven’t wanted to deal with other people, but guess what? That’s not ideal. And our “guild not being good enough” has nothing to do with our lack of wanting certain types of people in our guild. Are you implying that we’re wrong because we want people to play a certain way, yet you’re sitting there telling us to suck it up and play with certain people all the time? Hi kettle, I’m pot, did you know you’re black?

Almost all of the negative responses in this thread have come down to taking things way too literally and poor reading comprehension.

What you are doing is called backpedaling, yes.

I read the entire OP. And I still think you’re a kitten. You more so than the OP it seems.

I have problem with this one:

—Ranged attacks, Scepter Guardians, Pistol Thieves, Rangers, Rifle Warriors, Thieves

Keep in mind I mainly run high level fractals(38/48) with my guardian and thief(both 35AR)

Scepter is the only 1200 range weapon a guardian can use with a offhand weapon.

It offers immobilize and vulnerability every 20 seconds.

IT IS A MUST HAVE FOR HIGH LEVEL FRACTALS.

I am NOT saying using ONLY scepter the entire run, my main weapon is Greatsword.(with staff, hammer, mace and focus in my inventory to swap depend on situations)

But when my defensive skills are on cooldown and some boss that are just not melee friendly(dredge, cliffside, ascalon and grawl) I just have to switch to scepter to for range dps with mobility to move around.

We clear on Guardian using scepter in certain cases?

As for thieves in general, are you kitten serious?

When a thief is in party you have AoE blind/weakness/poison/cripple/stealth AND SMOKE SCREEN.

When you say pistol thief not sure if you are just talking about p/p or any pistol thief.

My thief use p/p on boss in fractals with either shortbow/pd/dp to swap.

Do you know with a thief you can finish dredge bomb in 2 trips without death?

Do you know Basilisk Venom is the only stun that ignores Defiant?

Do you know Shadow Shot is a great way to gather those Jade Colossus?

Do you know with almost full up-time of AoE blind and weakness on Ascalonian vets means no one is getting “one shot down”?(Unless they stand in mage fire circle, not much you can do here.)

Do you know Smoke Screen absorb Old Tom’s poison whirlwind?

How much do you know about thief?

Support thief works great with a team that know what they are doing.

Rifle warriors, they have great single target range dps, nuff said. I am okay with them as long as its boss only.

I am okay with rangers as long as there is no more than 2 in a party.

My personal pet-peeves in dungeons:

1. 4+ Signet warriors, because Justice Is So Great and you are out.

2. Magic Find in general. I am okay with it as long as only use on grinding part(Dredge, Jade Maw) But not full dungeon and not on boss.

3. Spirit Weapon Guardian, I am okay with them if use underwater, with shield as exception.

4. All time Full pet Necro, every single one full pet necro I run into have L2P problem.

It’s not exactly backpedaling. Initially I had wanted the core of my post to be groups in general, not how my group runs things. People began asking about points in our group or asserting that if you do something on this list it’s an immediate kick, which it isn’t. More than backpedaling I see this as a sort of evolution of the thread and answering questions/responding to claims. You may name my actions as you will, though.

My group doesn’t ping gear. The specific magic find example I have is while in Arah P.4, a parrot spawned off of a necro.

Additionally, I do join full pickup groups from time to time. I recall seeing these bad behaviors more rampant in said situations, specifically not raising (I do understand there are times when its unreasonable or impossible).

One thing I keep forgetting: there were a few comments about not allowing others to enter the instance. Unfortunately the street concerning trolling goes both ways; we only started doing this after someone exited us from a dungeon, if I recall correctly something came up irl and he had to leave. Sucked. We try to keep instance owner in the hands of someone who won’t do that to anyone, and I understand completely that that is why others in this thread are expressing concern: you guys don’t have any reason to trust us or any other group. Far beyond this being a player issue is that it’s simply a bad aspect of the game causing grievances between people. It sucks for everyone.

Ethics.4519:

swiftpaw.6397:

Teleniel.1809:

all I can say is WOW you guys run a harsh group.

lets see….

magic find gear… do you ask for all gear ping before a dungeon? I mean… that’s elitest right there, can’t deny it. I’m not going to say I wouldn’t rather nobody ran it, and that it’s not selfish, but hey if we can clear the content than fine.

.

Unfortunately after many many many many hours of my time wasted by magic finders I am forced to gear check to avoid incident. This is not something I wish to do, but history has not been kind to my parties.

Stats =/= skill

Another one for the block list.

Ethics.4519:

swiftpaw.6397:

Teleniel.1809:

all I can say is WOW you guys run a harsh group.

lets see….

magic find gear… do you ask for all gear ping before a dungeon? I mean… that’s elitest right there, can’t deny it. I’m not going to say I wouldn’t rather nobody ran it, and that it’s not selfish, but hey if we can clear the content than fine.

.

Unfortunately after many many many many hours of my time wasted by magic finders I am forced to gear check to avoid incident. This is not something I wish to do, but history has not been kind to my parties.

Stats =/= skill

MF = person performing less than what they could be regardless of their skill being higher than the rest of the party.

Ioflux.4369:

Ethics.4519:

swiftpaw.6397:

Teleniel.1809:

all I can say is WOW you guys run a harsh group.

lets see….

magic find gear… do you ask for all gear ping before a dungeon? I mean… that’s elitest right there, can’t deny it. I’m not going to say I wouldn’t rather nobody ran it, and that it’s not selfish, but hey if we can clear the content than fine.

.

Unfortunately after many many many many hours of my time wasted by magic finders I am forced to gear check to avoid incident. This is not something I wish to do, but history has not been kind to my parties.

Stats =/= skill

MF = person performing less than what they could be regardless of their skill being higher than the rest of the party.

Yes. In dungeons there is a certain level of performance that increases the likelihood of success, and another level of performance that ensures speed. It’s important to note that there are players for whom it’s OK for others to give less than they could, and players for whom it isn’t. Now, if there was some way to insure that all players who think one way could group with each other, and vice versa, we’d have it made.

Luciusbrimstone.7925:

It’s not exactly backpedaling. Initially I had wanted the core of my post to be groups in general, not how my group runs things. People began asking about points in our group or asserting that if you do something on this list it’s an immediate kick, which it isn’t. More than backpedaling I see this as a sort of evolution of the thread and answering questions/responding to claims. You may name my actions as you will, though.

My group doesn’t ping gear. The specific magic find example I have is while in Arah P.4, a parrot spawned off of a necro.

Additionally, I do join full pickup groups from time to time. I recall seeing these bad behaviors more rampant in said situations, specifically not raising (I do understand there are times when its unreasonable or impossible).

One thing I keep forgetting: there were a few comments about not allowing others to enter the instance. Unfortunately the street concerning trolling goes both ways; we only started doing this after someone exited us from a dungeon, if I recall correctly something came up irl and he had to leave. Sucked. We try to keep instance owner in the hands of someone who won’t do that to anyone, and I understand completely that that is why others in this thread are expressing concern: you guys don’t have any reason to trust us or any other group. Far beyond this being a player issue is that it’s simply a bad aspect of the game causing grievances between people. It sucks for everyone.

If you want to make it a discussion on semantics, just let me know.

The fact is that you made some good points. Mixed in were some very stupid points and even a contradiction or two that just made you look bad to anyone who actually read the entire OP through (as some others pointed out). Just because your friend ignorantly thinks that people are in disagreement because they failed to read more than the headlines (which is silly considering the amount of people who have picked apart what they didn’t agree with more fully) does not mean that is the case. My only point was that the OP made you sound like a bit of a prick, your friend made it worse, and I that I hope no one impressionable actually reads this and starts toting it as actual community-wide “dungeon etiquette.”

i didn’t read any of it, but basically all you need to know is dont PUG. if you PUG you open yourself to all kinds of crap.