Guild Wars 2

I’d like to see if we can actually just hold a meeting on voice comms so we can decide on a rule set.

Please review and let’s discuss when we can get a meeting together. The sooner we do this, the sooner we can all get back to it instead of the previous week by week votes where every week the ruleset might change again and it was pointless to attempt records.

My proposed ruleset:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k-0UGqmC6AVXgrCh0myB-dpLKVhbg9vGZz9Vfzi5qI0/edit?usp=sharing

For the most part, things are fairly similar.
Cleaned up the wording and reorganized it to make things a little cleaner to read.
The issues people had previously are clarified in a way that I felt made sense. Only major sticking points from previous discussions I think was defining what a hostile, inactive mob is.
Entire argument about bypassing doors was whittled down to simply you can’t jump over closed doors.

There’s a couple of rules that existed because it was felt at the time that the behavior was unintended. Something we can discuss at the meeting.

Took out anything that said “X is allowed”. If it’s not banned, then it’s allowed.

For the Path specific rules, I don’t think any of them actually speed up runs except possibly the air guns on CM P3. Since those are flat out specific to those dungeons and wouldn’t fit an overall rule, I left them in place.

This is the people who were listed as voters on Wethospu’s weekly discussions. If anyone is interested in attending, please post here or send me a message. 5 people per guild so a full team can be present.

Daemoniic [HeX]
Enko [LOD]
Deathly [qT]
Skywalker [TDN]
Der/p/y Moa [vC]
Ashlee [geek]
Jerem [SC]
Nikephoros [DnT]
Sanderinoa [rT]
Senior Magic [iG]
Juliverine [Yoga]

Just out of curiosity, this set wouldn’t ban casting AoE spells on walls and high points to compress the AoE, right? The rule below is the closest it gets to that in the rules, but this doesn’t require any sort of movement.

“Compression of AoE hitboxes by moving, blinking and/or dodging is banned. "

“Using emotes will not result in the timer starting. "
Sick :^)

Why are celebration/birthday boosters banned?
(100% boost to magic find, WvW rank gain, experience from kills, and gold from kills. 10% bonus to reward track progress)

Is it the XP boost? It doesn’t offer any speed advantage that I can see

Atrophied.8725:

Why are celebration/birthday boosters banned?

It’s probably more of a safety net, people wouldn’t have thought mini-pets were harmless to restricted rules but they are. Leveling up is also an issue that has never been *addressed and due to it’s nature it’s pretty hard to avoid, XP boosts won’t help with that.

Oh well this is great, I’d really like to join in on this seeing as how rT is restarting as of now, and how often rules get confusing nowadays. Sadly I am out of the country (Again) for the rest of July. If possible I’d prefer it if we could give people a little more time and schedule in August.

Edit: I do however think we should look at a more broad perspective than was suggested, though. We can’t have meetings occur at anytime someone suggests something new. Lets look at what the community wants, and how we can cooperate to make everything easier and clearer.

Sanderinoa.8065:

Oh well this is great, I’d really like to join in on this seeing as how rT is restarting as of now, and how often rules get confusing nowadays. Sadly I am out of the country (Again) for the rest of July. If possible I’d prefer it if we could give people a little more time and schedule in August.

Edit: I do however think we should look at a more broad perspective than was suggested, though. We can’t have meetings occur at anytime someone suggests something new. Lets look at what the community wants, and how we can cooperate to make everything easier and clearer.

If we want to push it into August, I’m fine with that. I was just looking at something soon so we get some stability on this.

What I posted is only my suggested ruleset. This meeting isn’t to say yay or nay on what I listed but so we can discuss it. There’s a couple of things in there that I’m wondering why we’re still banning since we moved away from the as it was intended thing anyways.

For the guilds interested in attending, can you post or message me with the names of the three players attending? I’ll see about grouping us up in a temp guild like we did last time.

Why are we having a rulemeeting now? Nobody voted against the voting system as far as I remember? And why isnt Wethospu organizing this?

Because Enko is kitten that no one is listening to his ideas so he decides to make a random meeting to stroke his own ego.

Im not here in July for me the 08/02/2015 would be better for me, and for Sandy i guess not sure tho.

BlackDragon.3752:

Im not here in July for me the 08/02/2015 would be better for me, and for Sandy i guess not sure tho.

So were going back in time?

Taku.6352:

Because Enko is kitten that no one is listening to his ideas so he decides to make a random meeting to stroke his own ego.

Not really sure where you’re coming from on this.

Most of the guilds that do records are annoyed with the weekly voting thing. All we’re doing is getting together to just finalize it and get it done.

spoj.9672:

BlackDragon.3752:

Im not here in July for me the 08/02/2015 would be better for me, and for Sandy i guess not sure tho.

So were going back in time?

You know how to write a date in non german?

BlackDragon.3752:

spoj.9672:

BlackDragon.3752:

Im not here in July for me the 08/02/2015 would be better for me, and for Sandy i guess not sure tho.

So were going back in time?

You know how to write a date in non german?

Last i checked only US and Canada use the M/D/Y format. You are in EU arent you?

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country
Can anyone explain to me the logic behind using MDY anyway? Its a jumbled up order.

Sorry for offtopic. x)

ya but M/D is the one which is used for all and i think england aswell. Sp its kinda the offical one.

Enko.6123:

Most of the guilds that do records are annoyed with the weekly voting thing.

That pretty much sums it up so yes we’ll attend on whatever date fits everyones schedules.

BlackDragon.3752:

ya but M/D is the one which is used for all and i think england aswell. Sp its kinda the offical one.

No its not. I am english and i can tell you its DMY here. Just like it is pretty much everywhere.

Doesn’t matter i think ppl got which date i meant ^^

except the part where we didnt since the nonsensical american format is stupid as hell.

There has to be a reason for making such a stupid illogical date format, right?

doddbox.8153:

There has to be a reason for making such a stupid illogical date format, right?

I hate that we’re using imperial system for measurements…. temperature in fahrenheit, and different date formats… oh it sucks so much. It’s frustrating because if you live here you have no choice but to get used to them.

But at the same time, the UK uses some really stupid weight measurement system with “stones” so… they are weird too :P

Purple Miku.7032:

But at the same time, the UK uses some really stupid weight measurement system with “stones” so… they are weird too :P

Yeah it is pretty weird but I think for the most part we use metric units and imperial units solely exist for novelty and old people now :^/

Because when you speak you say March 4th, 2015. MDY Same as when you write it fully, as in the previous sentence. However we use DMY in Quebec, and it was used in Ontario as well when I lived there. Woohoo off-topic discussions!!!

SlyDevil.3952:

Because when you speak you say March 4th, 2015. MDY Same as when you write it fully, as in the previous sentence. However we use DMY in Quebec, and it was used in Ontario as well when I lived there. Woohoo off-topic discussions!!!

Everyone I know in the UK uses D/M/Y in spoken format i.e. “The 4th of March” too so I don’t know, we need a global vote on this.

doddbox.8153:

SlyDevil.3952:

Because when you speak you say March 4th, 2015. MDY Same as when you write it fully, as in the previous sentence. However we use DMY in Quebec, and it was used in Ontario as well when I lived there. Woohoo off-topic discussions!!!

Everyone I know in the UK uses D/M/Y in spoken format i.e. “The 4th of March” too so I don’t know, we need a global vote on this.

I’ve been to 27 countries and only one of them uses MDY.

Actually, the international convention is YMD.

Ideas, just throwing it out to save everyone some time.

1. Keep the rules as they exist today.
2. Stop the weekly voting/tweaking/clarifying minute non-issues and reserve voting for new issues of severe importance where there is actual controversy and the community opinion seems to be actually divided and/or meta resets.
3. Have a meeting once a year to discuss larger ruleset changes.
4. Everyone kitten for a while and play the game.

spoj.9672:

BlackDragon.3752:

spoj.9672:

BlackDragon.3752:

Im not here in July for me the 08/02/2015 would be better for me, and for Sandy i guess not sure tho.

So were going back in time?

You know how to write a date in non german?

Last i checked only US and Canada use the M/D/Y format. You are in EU arent you?

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country
Can anyone explain to me the logic behind using MDY anyway? Its a jumbled up order.

Sorry for offtopic. x)

It’s all part of the plan. Just like using Miles, Fahrenheit, and pounds. Just like removing the ‘u’ out of colour. It’s all little things to annoy the Europeans.

Will GW2dungeons representatives be attending? They don’t exactly seem very supportive of this initiative.

The ruleset is sound. Only issue i have.

8. Bypassing closed doors by jumping over them when they are closed is banned.

This opens up the whole arah p3 and arah p2 door issue again. Cant we just remove this rule? The only case where this would be an issue is CoE door. But alpha is inactive until path trigger so players would be prevented from attacking him anyway. Which solves the main issue with that particular case.

And the belka specific rule should be removed. It doesnt effect full groups. But in solo’s and duos most players will simply not bother submitting their times because they use that trick on belka regardless of the rules. Besides its not really a big deal.

Isn’t 9b a redundant statement with 9a? Perhaps just reword 9a as attacking an enemy that is unable to perform an action(do emotes/talking count?), since non-hostile enemies won’t take damage from you(unless neutral moas count). And define action as skill use or movement(though the game considers npc movement to be a skill). Which would summarise 9abcd into a single, slightly longer than before statement.

So, “Attacking inactive enemies is banned where inactive is an enemy unable to perform an action(ie. skill use or movement)” Which covers fimbul, shoggroth, subject 6, subject alpha. I haven’t done the p4 bosses in a while, though I remember them bugging due to their emote. Though you could define an action as skill use, movement and emote to include that.

People dont have a problem with fimbul, shoggroth, sub 6 though. The problem was allowing them in restricted. Which was supposed to be a ruleset about playing as close to as intended as possible.

abcd are just clarifications of 9. Not individual rules.

SlyDevil.3952:

Isn’t 9b a redundant statement with 9a? Perhaps just reword 9a as attacking an enemy that is unable to perform an action(do emotes/talking count?), since non-hostile enemies won’t take damage from you(unless neutral moas count). And define action as skill use or movement(though the game considers npc movement to be a skill). Which would summarise 9abcd into a single, slightly longer than before statement.

So, “Attacking inactive enemies is banned where inactive is an enemy unable to perform an action(ie. skill use or movement)” Which covers fimbul, shoggroth, subject 6, subject alpha. I haven’t done the p4 bosses in a while, though I remember them bugging due to their emote. Though you could define an action as skill use, movement and emote to include that.

It’s just Rule 9. The stuff under it is to just make clear what a hostile, inactive boss is. The rule itself would just read "Attacking hostile, inactive enemies is banned. "

BTW, another weekly vote has been started for Week 30 discussion. This topic for CM would be covered under this rule already.

Veckna.9621:

Will GW2dungeons representatives be attending? They don’t exactly seem very supportive of this initiative.

I know Ravi is attending. I’m not sure why Wethospu appears to not want want to. Maybe since I made the post or since he says [LOD] is hosting it. We’re more likely going to do it on vC’s TS since they offered up the usage of their’s already.

I would like it if the approvers could come to or anyone else that has any input.

spoj.9672:

People dont have a problem with fimbul, shoggroth, sub 6 though. The problem was allowing them in restricted. Which was supposed to be a ruleset about playing as close to as intended as possible.

Is the intention of this ruleset to remove unrestricted and have only 1 type of record?
And in terms of those bosses, why list them if people didn’t have a problem? As long as you describe what inactive means, the 4 sub-rules wouldn’t need to be included, or reduced to 1, which would explicitly define inactive.

Edit: sub-rule is a bad word choice, I’m confused as to why you would need to have 4 statements to clarify a single rule, instead of rewriting the rule to remove confusion.

We dont really need 2 rulesets anymore. The original idea behind having 2 was because restricted was to play as close to as intended by anet so people wouldnt feel bad about posting videos of them exploiting (noone seems to care anymore). And unrestricted was just for those of us who didnt care and wanted to maintain some semblence of the pre ruleset state of records.

Since people are heavily exploiting mechanics in restricted now. I think its safe to assume bad rep in the eyes of anet is not a concern anymore. And unrestricted is far too broad and unpopular so it has no competition. People who really care about completely unrestricted dont really do them to submit anyway. So it makes more sense to have a single unified ruleset now that the community has shifted dont you think?

spoj.9672:

So it makes more sense to have a single unified ruleset now that the community has shifted dont you think?

Yeah, abolish unrestricted and everyone can just use the restricted ruleset.

I agree. I personally believe that we’ve reached the point where we are utilising the game’s mechanics as much as we possibly can and that intentionally limiting ourselves just because something ‘feels unintended’ is taking a step in the wrong direction. I’m all up for removing unrestricted and re-creating restricted with a ruleset that allows more or less everything except the usual bs like non-food consumables, goating, breaking out of maps etc.

SlyDevil.3952:

spoj.9672:

People dont have a problem with fimbul, shoggroth, sub 6 though. The problem was allowing them in restricted. Which was supposed to be a ruleset about playing as close to as intended as possible.

Is the intention of this ruleset to remove unrestricted and have only 1 type of record?
And in terms of those bosses, why list them if people didn’t have a problem? As long as you describe what inactive means, the 4 sub-rules wouldn’t need to be included, or reduced to 1, which would explicitly define inactive.

Edit: sub-rule is a bad word choice, I’m confused as to why you would need to have 4 statements to clarify a single rule, instead of rewriting the rule to remove confusion.

This is so when I posted my proposed ruleset, people would know what I mean by hostile, inactive bosses.

I wouldn’t expect what you’re calling sub rules to be listed in the final rules.

This is the stuff we were going to discuss at the meeting and anything else people wanted to go over. Did you want to attend?

Enko.6123:

This is the stuff we were going to discuss at the meeting and anything else people wanted to go over. Did you want to attend?

Sure, I’ll probably remain silent for most of it since I don’t plan on touching records unless I reapp to a speed clear guild. I may have to mute myself though, last time I was in a large meeting I yelled at a guy for giving stupid ideas, oh archeage world bosses, the times we had together.

So I have someone from DnT, vC, SC, and rT has expressed interest except the time proposed won’t work. We can always find a different time to include rT if we need to.

Anyone else want to participate at all? Invited Wethospu but don’t know if he wants to go or not.

Quick question since i am not playing for so long. Where can i vote for the Players/Guilds voting for thoose rulesets?

otome.2673:

Quick question since i am not playing for so long. Where can i vote for the Players/Guilds voting for thoose rulesets?

Guilds that participate in records (set a record) are invited to vote. So basically get involved and have your voice heard.

Would the Second of August be fine for everyone?

Jerus.4350:

otome.2673:

Quick question since i am not playing for so long. Where can i vote for the Players/Guilds voting for thoose rulesets?

Guilds that participate in records (set a record) are invited to vote. So basically get involved and have your voice heard.

And there is only 1 record needed? Also if the record , lets say, 1 year old is? That diesnt sound very good if guilds are still voting for rules who arent good in pve anymore.

Do you have a specific guild you have a complaint about? If not you are just speaking pointless hypotheticals.

Wh are you acting so rude after i asked a few general questions

I dont see how that was rude.

And yes theres no reason why we would say they cant vote just because they havent done any records recently. Unless someone has a complaint. Which is why i said that.

Jerus.4350:

otome.2673:

Quick question since i am not playing for so long. Where can i vote for the Players/Guilds voting for thoose rulesets?

Guilds that participate in records (set a record) are invited to vote. So basically get involved and have your voice heard.

I’d be up for anyone to be on TS for the meeting unless it starts to get disorderly. I want actual input though not people who think posting daily tours runs as records. People that are actually interested in contributing to the discussion. While it’s likely that we’ll give more weight to people who are actively doing records, I’d like to hear input from whoever wants to give it.

otome, if you want to be at the meeting to provide input, just let me know.

BlackDragon.3752:

Would the Second of August be fine for everyone?

August 2 works for me.