Guild Wars 2

Why is it that the dungeon host holds the power to kick everyone? Why is their time more valuable than everyone elses?

All 4 of us wanted to give the boss another go but the host, “nah”. Just logs off. Kicks us. Voids 2 hours of work. This is completely stupid.

I dont understand the technical limitations of dungeons needing to be hosted but please take a look at this. Perhaps before shutting down the dungeon, save what WP’s they have unlocked. Let them waypoint to the latest point even if you can’t remember what enemies have and have not been killed. It is NOT ok for 1 person to be able to decide the fate of 4 other people. To deny them their rewards.

agreed, it is a horrible mechanic.

It’s a horrible mechanic but they are trying to fix it. However I understand some of the mechanic. Lets say the leader is the only one that has done the dungeon in story mode which is required for the “key” to open the dungeon. Now the leader leaves, how is the group going to stay in for which no one qualifies.

Lets say this is done on purpose for the “leader” to switch to a different toon that doesn’t have the qualifications and now no one in the party has it. It’s a balance.

Only way I can see it fixed is that it requires everyone to do story in order to even do exploration. This way everyone has the key and so if the leader drops then everyone can stay in.

However that will completely create a kittenfest of anger forcing everyone to do story mode on their alts.

it is not his fault for emo quitting either

RiKShaw.8795:

Why is it that the dungeon host holds the power to kick everyone? Why is their time more valuable than everyone elses?

All 4 of us wanted to give the boss another go but the host, “nah”. Just logs off. Kicks us. Voids 2 hours of work. This is completely stupid.

Because the dungeon host has to have the flag to go into the exp dungeon. So once the flag person leaves then the team is kicked. This is not a great system but that’s why it’s happening.

I don’t like the mechanic much, but there seem to be a few things you forgot to mention/stated incorrectly.

• he alone didn’t kick everybody of your group. either he kicked and someone else agreed to the kick, or he just left the group – which, with him as host, ported everybody out. wrongfully implying he maliciously kicked you doesn’t help the case much.
• you didn’t say which dungeon. two hours is a long time for any dungeon, especially the easier ones (ac, cof, ta, cm). you shouldn’t have taken so long, this indicates you were at least three noobs in the group.
• did you join the group and tell everyone you were inexperienced? (or did the other players?)
• did the whole group agree to an introductory run for firsttimers?

I’ve been introducing new players to AC for a while (usually 1-2 runs a day with newbs) and it’s much more work than with an experienced group. so after doing my social duty, I search for an experienced group for a quick run. if I realize I’ve got another group of noobs who lied to my by claiming they have experience, I’ll sometimes leave as well. and I don’t care whether I’m the host or not. if there was any way to punish them harder than missing loot, I would. lying (explicitly or implicitly) is one of the worst kind of cowardly and unsocial action players can take, especially if it leads to wasting everybodies time.

some players are quite good even with no experience, I’ve had ‘noob’ intro-runs which went far better than full 80 goldruns. the problem are inexperienced players who lie to the group.
it might be, you just were bad players in a dungeon with too high a difficulty for you (you really should start with ac, cof1/2, ta, cm etc). if you clearly stated you are new, the host shouldn’t have left. if you didn’t you deserved to be kicked out of the dungeon – and far more imho.

tl;dr: start with easy dungeons, tell people if you’re new. don’t lie by claiming to have experience. if you didn’t do so, you deserve worse than being kicked out of the dungeon. if you did and the host leaves then, hes a kitten.

Im not new. I’ve done every dungeon at least once. We didn’t tell him we were inexperienced because we weren’t. We weren’t “noobs” we just were just learning the ropes of the final Alpha fight in path 3.

Now 2 points have been brought up.

1: Story completion: I dont see whats the big huff with everyone not wanting to do story mode ever. I’d personally be absolutely fine with everyone needing to have done story mode. However thats not good enough reason to have him be able to destroy the progress of 4 other people. And yes, it might as well be kicking. He didn’t DC, he didn’t accidentally exit. He was told it’d kick us, pleaded to stop and then he did it anyway. He knew it’d kick us from the dungeon. A lot of the time there is more than 1 person who has done story mode but it doesn’t default to them being the host so I doubt this is the problem.

So in the scenario that the leader is the only one with story completion and they’re at the final boss. Suddenly the leader has to leave for whatever reason. Why is it so bad that they are then in the dungeon without anyone who’s got story completion?

In the scenario that no one likes doing story and that the leader leaving doesn’t restart the dungeon, I dont see how its a massive exploit for someone to go in and change character. Or go in simply to allow 4 people access. I doubt that this would make story completion completely optional as there’d be no reward for allowing players access.

2: NUBS: Who cares if you think they’re all nubs. Why should you wield the power to punish them? What makes you elligible for that right? I’ve yet to see one person lie about being experienced and even if I did, they dont deserve punishment.

If you want to leave because you believe your team cannot do it and you’re wasting time, then you should be able to leave them to their devices. If they believe they can do it, they can waste their time. You leave, go on and prosper. It’s completely ok when you’re not the leader but suddenly because you are the one to walk through the door you are bound to the dungeon completion?

RiKShaw.8795:

Im not new. I’ve done every dungeon at least once. We didn’t tell him we were inexperienced because we weren’t. We weren’t “noobs” we just were just learning the ropes of the final Alpha fight in path 3.

so having done a path once or twice makes you experienced? interesting definition of the word. in my vocabulary, experienced means you’ve run it several times and know the ins and outs of the path. while a firsttimer is a noob, not every noob has to be a firsttimer. even having done a path once or twice means you’re probably still a noob, unless you did your homework (watched videos, read strategies whatever) – and even then, it doesn’t make you experienced.

RiKShaw.8795:

1: Story completion: ….

personally, I’d prefer story mode to be a prerequisite for every teammember, as it ensures they have at least passed easy-mode successfully. but thats just preference. doesn’t really matter right now with the current system. except that having done story allows you to enter and decide when the dungeon ends.

RiKShaw.8795:

2: NUBS: Who cares if you think they’re all nubs. Why should you wield the power to punish them? What makes you elligible for that right? I’ve yet to see one person lie about being experienced and even if I did, they dont deserve punishment.

If you want to leave because you believe your team cannot do it and you’re wasting time, then you should be able to leave them to their devices. If they believe they can do it, they can waste their time. You leave, go on and prosper. It’s completely ok when you’re not the leader but suddenly because you are the one to walk through the door you are bound to the dungeon completion?

who cares? probably the people asking for an experienced group? or the people who pull their weight and would like to finish the dungeon, but can’t because some egoistic halfwit joined and claimed he knew the dungeon well, while dying constantly and holding the team back?
you ignored my questions about the context. if you or other party members did nothing wrong, it would’ve been easy to say so.
I say again, there’s no shame in being a noob as long as you make that clear and the group know they might have to help you out and maybe even pull you through. I don’t kick firsttimers if they say so in the beginning – I’ll try to help them. if they lie, they deserve at least from a kick out of the group. they are griefing other players intentionally by lieing. if you like griefers, good for you, I hope you encounter lots of them and have fun. I don’t like griefers and don’t want them in my groups, if they lie their way into a group I’m hosting (meaning I created the group and set the terms for joining), they can expect a rather harsh treatment.

So there we were, two bloodied Necromancers clutching desperately to their staves and daggers as fierce Arah wind spilled around them. A huge and exhausted Norn warrior stared with bleary eyes at our Asura engineer, sighing as he lifted his greatsword. Our dagger/pistol thief scouted the area ahead of us. This is is it. We’ve been fighting mobs of undead that would put the maker’s of Resident Evil to shame. We’ve carried and passed along balls like no NBA team could ever do. We got knocked down together, we stood together…. we will die together.

…and the Asura hops on closer to the party. “Hey guys, I need a sauna and won’t be able to explore any further.” huge dark eyes blinking. “Don’t worry though, I am pretty sure that you can easily replace me.” With a blink of tired eyes he was gone and we found ourselves – outside the dungeon!

What happened!? Why were the fates so cruel to us!? Both necromancers made sure to sacrifice several minions before we entered the dungeon. We spend hours fighting and killing through hordes of undead, only to get kicked out of the dungeon with a measly three tokens, broken armor and sadness!

That is the biggest pain I ever felt in this game. We really did have a perfect team. Shame then that our Asura decided that his/her skincare was more important than ending the dungeon first. They should find some way to nominate a “Captain/Leader” and this person will be responsible for the instance. Sure if he/she feels like leaving they should pass this role on to another member. Or we could just vote! Most of us live in democratic countries.

Ah, but I know they will some how fix this issue – one day.

/End Ramble.

RiKShaw.8795:

Why is it that the dungeon host holds the power to kick everyone?

I think this is the same issue as some older games have with multiplayer. Opening player acts like a server for instance and when he leaves the server is shut down and people are kicked from the dungeon. This mechanic can be used to take some pressure of anet servers, but the team relies on person who opened the instance.

Drunken Mad King.8193:

It’s a horrible mechanic but they are trying to fix it. However I understand some of the mechanic. Lets say the leader is the only one that has done the dungeon in story mode which is required for the “key” to open the dungeon. Now the leader leaves, how is the group going to stay in for which no one qualifies.

Lets say this is done on purpose for the “leader” to switch to a different toon that doesn’t have the qualifications and now no one in the party has it. It’s a balance.

Only way I can see it fixed is that it requires everyone to do story in order to even do exploration. This way everyone has the key and so if the leader drops then everyone can stay in.

However that will completely create a kittenfest of anger forcing everyone to do story mode on their alts.

Requiring story mode in the first place was an inane design decision. I don’t think we need to actively make the game worse to support such an inane restriction.

Drunken Mad King.8193:

It’s a horrible mechanic but they are trying to fix it. However I understand some of the mechanic. Lets say the leader is the only one that has done the dungeon in story mode which is required for the “key” to open the dungeon. Now the leader leaves, how is the group going to stay in for which no one qualifies.

Ah, but does the game really need to have the “You must do the story dungeon before you can start an explorable” thing? What purpose does it serve beyond “forcing” people to do the story dungeon?

The whole story/explore locking thing just doesnt not make sense. Sure level requirements, no problem I get that and understand. But essentially forcing players to do a mode they may have zero interest in before allowing access to exploration mode is ludicrous to me.

I mean ok, we get there is a side story to the main plot thats fine and understandable. But dont force it on us as a requirement to progress exploration mode.

Oranisagu.3706:

RiKShaw.8795:

Im not new. I’ve done every dungeon at least once. We didn’t tell him we were inexperienced because we weren’t. We weren’t “noobs” we just were just learning the ropes of the final Alpha fight in path 3.

so having done a path once or twice makes you experienced? interesting definition of the word. in my vocabulary, experienced means you’ve run it several times and know the ins and outs of the path. while a firsttimer is a noob, not every noob has to be a firsttimer. even having done a path once or twice means you’re probably still a noob, unless you did your homework (watched videos, read strategies whatever) – and even then, it doesn’t make you experienced.

RiKShaw.8795:

1: Story completion: ….

personally, I’d prefer story mode to be a prerequisite for every teammember, as it ensures they have at least passed easy-mode successfully. but thats just preference. doesn’t really matter right now with the current system. except that having done story allows you to enter and decide when the dungeon ends.

RiKShaw.8795:

2: NUBS: Who cares if you think they’re all nubs. Why should you wield the power to punish them? What makes you elligible for that right? I’ve yet to see one person lie about being experienced and even if I did, they dont deserve punishment.

If you want to leave because you believe your team cannot do it and you’re wasting time, then you should be able to leave them to their devices. If they believe they can do it, they can waste their time. You leave, go on and prosper. It’s completely ok when you’re not the leader but suddenly because you are the one to walk through the door you are bound to the dungeon completion?

who cares? probably the people asking for an experienced group? or the people who pull their weight and would like to finish the dungeon, but can’t because some egoistic halfwit joined and claimed he knew the dungeon well, while dying constantly and holding the team back?
you ignored my questions about the context. if you or other party members did nothing wrong, it would’ve been easy to say so.
I say again, there’s no shame in being a noob as long as you make that clear and the group know they might have to help you out and maybe even pull you through. I don’t kick firsttimers if they say so in the beginning – I’ll try to help them. if they lie, they deserve at least from a kick out of the group. they are griefing other players intentionally by lieing. if you like griefers, good for you, I hope you encounter lots of them and have fun. I don’t like griefers and don’t want them in my groups, if they lie their way into a group I’m hosting (meaning I created the group and set the terms for joining), they can expect a rather harsh treatment.

OP’s argument is that it’s frustrating and unfair to give one person absolute power to end a dungeon crawl – for whatever reason – when other players are still interested in progressing. Instead, you blather on about griefers and liars when that’s not even the topic under discussion. What’s the relevance of bringing up someone’s inexperienced/noob status (and possibly lying about it) when the claim up for debate is the unfairness of granting one player absolute power to end dungeon progression for four other players, regardless of the reason? The OP even explicitly states – in the very paragraph you cited! – that should a player believe the rest of his/her team incapable of finishing/continuing, then that player should be able to leave – but without ending the dungeon for the other four players.

You don’t need more context to address the OP’s argument, then. You’re bringing up new and completely irrelevant topics, like LFG etiquette, i.e. no lying, etc., on a thread that’s discussing the unfairness of a single player’s absolute ownership over a dungeon instance.

xev.9476:

OP’s argument is that it’s frustrating and unfair to give one person absolute power to end a dungeon crawl – for whatever reason – when other players are still interested in progressing. Instead, you blather on about griefers and liars when that’s not even the topic under discussion. What’s the relevance of bringing up someone’s inexperienced/noob status (and possibly lying about it) when the claim up for debate is the unfairness of granting one player absolute power to end dungeon progression for four other players, regardless of the reason? The OP even explicitly states – in the very paragraph you cited! – that should a player believe the rest of his/her team incapable of finishing/continuing, then that player should be able to leave – but without ending the dungeon for the other four players.

You don’t need more context to address the OP’s argument, then. You’re bringing up new and completely irrelevant topics, like LFG etiquette, i.e. no lying, etc., on a thread that’s discussing the unfairness of a single player’s absolute ownership over a dungeon instance.

op’s so called argument was a story with very important context information missing. I never disagreed there are situations when the system fails, I just don’t accept a story with too many holes as the pure truth (as you seem to do).
also, I absolutely disagree with your point of view. there ARE situations where the host should have the power to singlehandedly kick people (namely those I mentioned, he invited people on specific terms which they didn’t meet).

removing the power of the host to kick people at all will increase griefing/lieing even more, as there will be no further deterrent. right now the system doesn’t work in because of accidental kicks (‘lemme relog quickly’, or ‘sorry, gtg’), but at least it allows a host to enforce the rules he set when creating a group.

the system is not perfect, but just viewing one facet of it and saying its bad is extremely shortsighted. but, as you already said you don’t need context to an argument in the form of a half-finished story, and can’t see the bigger picture (my counter points where not completely irrelevant topics, but I assumed people would be able to think for themselfes. my bad) I guess you already qualify for that.

I too feel the system is broken, but for another reason. We were doing a COF run on P1 when the leader received his bounty from the final boss chest and left before anyone else could receive their earnings. This should not be allowed to happen. Again, the leader holds all the power and can decide who gets their loot. Common this is unfair and should be fixed immediately. Granted this is rare but to be honest should never happen.

Oranisagu.3706:

op’s so called argument was a story with very important context information missing. I never disagreed there are situations when the system fails, I just don’t accept a story with too many holes as the pure truth (as you seem to do).
also, I absolutely disagree with your point of view. there ARE situations where the host should have the power to singlehandedly kick people (namely those I mentioned, he invited people on specific terms which they didn’t meet).

removing the power of the host to kick people at all will increase griefing/lieing even more, as there will be no further deterrent. right now the system doesn’t work in because of accidental kicks (‘lemme relog quickly’, or ‘sorry, gtg’), but at least it allows a host to enforce the rules he set when creating a group.

the system is not perfect, but just viewing one facet of it and saying its bad is extremely shortsighted. but, as you already said you don’t need context to an argument in the form of a half-finished story, and can’t see the bigger picture (my counter points where not completely irrelevant topics, but I assumed people would be able to think for themselfes. my bad) I guess you already qualify for that.

WHAT?!
Are you mad?

Idk what part of aristocracy you were brought up with but those people you’re playing with are worth just as much as you. You do not and will never be deemed worthy of enforcing a kick of 4 people.

You say that it allows a host to enforce the rules he set in place when he made the group. And you say that “If you are a noob, I will kick you, and all the other dungeon members out” is a rule? kitten I would hate to play with you thats not a rule and by god its not something that should be allowed. You are exactly the reason why this needs to change. To stop highhorses like you believing that the dungeon host is anything but the person who spent 2 silver WPing to the entrance. You are not the boss of the players. You do not hold any extra rights over them.

People do not grief or lie their way into a dungeon group. I have never found someone who lied about how much they knew or how strong they were. They mightn’t have said anything at all, but they never lied. Its ridiculous for you to think that there are players who are so stupid that they would look for a dungeon group to literally carry them through the dungeon, without telling the group why (idk, maybe they’re a casual player).But lets assume you’re right, and assume that players lie to get carried. So you start looking for a group. By the first boss, you would figure out who is a “noob”.

Now either A; All 4 are “noobs” and you can then leave and let them fumble the dungeon themselves WITHOUT spoiling their dungeon progress

B; None are “noobs”. You just do the dungeon as you realise how wrong you were in your post

C; At least one, but less than 4, are “noobs”. Well that means there is at least one experienced/“non-noob” player on your team. You can then kick the liers/griefers/innocent players that you like. If they want to keep going, you let them continue the dungeon and you leave them. With their dungeon progress intact.

No situation is bad.

It doesn’t matter if my particular situation was wrong. Doesn’t matter if it never happened. That I made it up. The point is that the situation has existed at some time. Someone else even wrote a nicely written story for us about their experiences. This happens all the time. Regardless of any plotholes mine had, there are countless examples.

PS: “Noob” is an insulting term. They changed the dictorial meaning of the word “ kitten #8221; because it was insulting, despite the fact that it was a medicinal term. What people believe words mean, is what they mean.

Oranisagu.3706:

removing the power of the host

Dude, you understand that in the context of the OP that “host” is the first person into the instance and hence the “owner” of the instance, and not the organizer of the group, right? It doesn’t make you God of the Dungeon. It doesn’t imply that it’s “yours” or that you should be the ultimate arbiter of “when the dungeon ends.” It’s a programming mechanic, and a poor one, that A-Net has said that they are addressing, for the very reason stated in the OP. Because you go in first doesn’t grant you any special rights.

The power-trips that people get on in games like this is hysterical.

You control the right to your time and effort. Not the time of 4 other people.

even in warframe they fixed this issue with hosting… -.-
shouldnt take long to do