Guild Wars 2

AntiGw.9367:

Lord Kuru.3685:

For those who refuse to skip: do you also need to kill all your opponent’s pieces in chess before going for the king?

Chess is not about killing pieces, it’s about controlling the board. If you go for the king without controlling the board, then yes you need to take pretty much every single one of his pieces. Otherwise they’ll take your king instead.

Your analogy is silly because in dungeons you don’t control any of the areas that you skip, and you also don’t kill anything. You run into a dungeon, and magically pass through the entire army that defends it as if it wasn’t even there. Then proceed to kill the final boss, while the entire army that you just skipped magically forgets about you and goes about their business.

That means that you are taking advantage of bad AI and poor game mechanics, so don’t bother make idiotic excuses. Either the dungeon mechanics need to be improved, or the mobs should be unskippable. Until the dev schedule schedule allows them to address that, they temporarily let cheesers cheese. But it doesn’t make it any less cheesy.

The goal of chess is to kill the king. The goal of every dungeon I can think of (considering their stories) is to beat the last boss. I don’t think there’s any dungeon whose goal is to exterminate everyone in the dungeon. It’s the same thing.

Plus skipping is not just taking advantage of bad AI and poor game mechanics. The devs could easily have put gates up that only disappear when you’ve killed every mob in the area (they did do this for the molten facility dungeon), but they didn’t. You are actually given a choice to skip or not. What’s wrong with that? More ways to play the game is better.

AntiGw.9367:

Nobody cares about who is the fastest and most efficient at playing this game.

That’s not the point I was making. The point I was making is that if you remove skipping, you’ll only hurt casual players and only mildly annoy the people you’re actually trying to hold back.

DigitalKirin.9714:

AntiGw.9367:

I have to be somebody to judge which mobs (that are present in current dungeons) are meant to be fought?

You aren’t. That’s guan’s point. That you completely missed.

Hrouda actually talked about why he put leashing in the dungeons. ANet has to consider many player types and skill ranges when they make content. Everyone is rightly pointing out that if you make things a bit tougher for the pragmatist that goes in for efficient clears, it is multiplicatively more challenging for the unorganized Puggers.

Your points that stand on “Nobody should skip fights that are meant to be fought” fails because you don’t have the authority to decide which fights are meant to be fought.

I don’t need to have any authority to judge anything, and I don’t need to be anybody. I have every right to judge everything in this game, like anybody else.

Unskippable mobs present no additional challenge or delay to players that don’t skip them in the first place. Your argument is based on some silly idea tha making them unskippable also means making them very difficult, unfun and/or unrewarding.

Lord Kuru.3685:

AntiGw.9367:

Lord Kuru.3685:

For those who refuse to skip: do you also need to kill all your opponent’s pieces in chess before going for the king?

Chess is not about killing pieces, it’s about controlling the board. If you go for the king without controlling the board, then yes you need to take pretty much every single one of his pieces. Otherwise they’ll take your king instead.

Your analogy is silly because in dungeons you don’t control any of the areas that you skip, and you also don’t kill anything. You run into a dungeon, and magically pass through the entire army that defends it as if it wasn’t even there. Then proceed to kill the final boss, while the entire army that you just skipped magically forgets about you and goes about their business.

That means that you are taking advantage of bad AI and poor game mechanics, so don’t bother make idiotic excuses. Either the dungeon mechanics need to be improved, or the mobs should be unskippable. Until the dev schedule schedule allows them to address that, they temporarily let cheesers cheese. But it doesn’t make it any less cheesy.

The goal of chess is to kill the king. The goal of every dungeon I can think of (considering their stories) is to beat the last boss. I don’t think there’s any dungeon whose goal is to exterminate everyone in the dungeon. It’s the same thing.

Plus skipping is not just taking advantage of bad AI and poor game mechanics. The devs could easily have put gates up that only disappear when you’ve killed every mob in the area (they did do this for the molten facility dungeon), but they didn’t. You are actually given a choice to skip or not. What’s wrong with that? More ways to play the game is better.

You can’t kill the king in chess, so stop saying that. The goal of chess is to win the game, and there are multiple victory conditions. However, that is all irrelevant because chess can’t be compared to GW2. It’s not the same thing.

The goal of any given dungeon depends on the dungeon – it could include mobs that should be skipped, or only mobs that should be fought if you want to proceed. If the dungeon is not designed for skipping, you are not supposed to avoid the encounters.

You are not “given” a choice to skip, it’s an unexpected loophole like any other, although maybe not as big. You weren’t given a choice to exploit snowflakes either, and yet people did, and made the same excuses you are now making here.

AntiGw.9367:

DigitalKirin.9714:

AntiGw.9367:

I have to be somebody to judge which mobs (that are present in current dungeons) are meant to be fought?

You aren’t. That’s guan’s point. That you completely missed.

Hrouda actually talked about why he put leashing in the dungeons. ANet has to consider many player types and skill ranges when they make content. Everyone is rightly pointing out that if you make things a bit tougher for the pragmatist that goes in for efficient clears, it is multiplicatively more challenging for the unorganized Puggers.

Your points that stand on “Nobody should skip fights that are meant to be fought” fails because you don’t have the authority to decide which fights are meant to be fought.

I don’t need to have any authority to judge anything, and I don’t need to be anybody. I have every right to judge everything in this game, like anybody else.

Unskippable mobs present no additional challenge or delay to players that don’t skip them in the first place. Your argument is based on some silly idea tha making them unskippable also means making them very difficult, unfun and/or unrewarding.

Lord Kuru.3685:

AntiGw.9367:

Lord Kuru.3685:

For those who refuse to skip: do you also need to kill all your opponent’s pieces in chess before going for the king?

Chess is not about killing pieces, it’s about controlling the board. If you go for the king without controlling the board, then yes you need to take pretty much every single one of his pieces. Otherwise they’ll take your king instead.

Your analogy is silly because in dungeons you don’t control any of the areas that you skip, and you also don’t kill anything. You run into a dungeon, and magically pass through the entire army that defends it as if it wasn’t even there. Then proceed to kill the final boss, while the entire army that you just skipped magically forgets about you and goes about their business.

That means that you are taking advantage of bad AI and poor game mechanics, so don’t bother make idiotic excuses. Either the dungeon mechanics need to be improved, or the mobs should be unskippable. Until the dev schedule schedule allows them to address that, they temporarily let cheesers cheese. But it doesn’t make it any less cheesy.

The goal of chess is to kill the king. The goal of every dungeon I can think of (considering their stories) is to beat the last boss. I don’t think there’s any dungeon whose goal is to exterminate everyone in the dungeon. It’s the same thing.

Plus skipping is not just taking advantage of bad AI and poor game mechanics. The devs could easily have put gates up that only disappear when you’ve killed every mob in the area (they did do this for the molten facility dungeon), but they didn’t. You are actually given a choice to skip or not. What’s wrong with that? More ways to play the game is better.

You can’t kill the king in chess, so stop saying that. The goal of chess is to win the game, and there are multiple victory conditions. However, that is all irrelevant because chess can’t be compared to GW2. It’s not the same thing.

The goal of any given dungeon depends on the dungeon – it could include mobs that should be skipped, or only mobs that should be fought if you want to proceed. If the dungeon is not designed for skipping, you are not supposed to avoid the encounters.

You are not “given” a choice to skip, it’s an unexpected loophole like any other, although maybe not as big. You weren’t given a choice to exploit snowflakes either, and yet people did, and made the same excuses you are now making here.

The goal is to checkmate the king (kill/checkmate — same idea). The goal in the dungeons is to kill the last boss (going by the story — kill Tazza, kill Frost, kill Colossus Rumblus, etc. — I don’t believe there is any dungeon where the goal is to wipe all mobs).

Killing all the mobs in a dungeon is analogous to killing all your opponent’s pieces in chess — going by the win conditions, both are unnecessary.

Do you kill all the mobs in that cave after Belka in Arah path 2?

By the way, I’m not talking about exploiting — but rather skipping: as in running past the mobs until they leash (definitely fair, otherwise the devs could have forced a gate to be closed until you kill the mob) or taking an alternate (non-exploiting) path such as in SEp3 after you kill the first boss (jump down straight to spiders as opposed to taking the spiral ramp down — you are definitely given this choice to skip).

AntiGw.9367:

Lord Kuru.3685:

For those who refuse to skip: do you also need to kill all your opponent’s pieces in chess before going for the king?

Chess is not about killing pieces, it’s about controlling the board. If you go for the king without controlling the board, then yes you need to take pretty much every single one of his pieces. Otherwise they’ll take your king instead.

Your analogy is silly because in dungeons you don’t control any of the areas that you skip, and you also don’t kill anything. You run into a dungeon, and magically pass through the entire army that defends it as if it wasn’t even there. Then proceed to kill the final boss, while the entire army that you just skipped magically forgets about you and goes about their business.

That means that you are taking advantage of bad AI and poor game mechanics, so don’t bother make idiotic excuses. Either the dungeon mechanics need to be improved, or the mobs should be unskippable. Until the dev schedule schedule allows them to address that, they temporarily let cheesers cheese. But it doesn’t make it any less cheesy.

" If you go for the king without controlling the board, then yes you need to take pretty much every single one of his pieces. Otherwise they’ll take your king instead."

That is the worst sentence I’ve ever read. If you go for the king without controlling the board then you need a quick attack plan. You are pretty much saying if this attack doesn’t work then I will resign. If you tried to surrender the center of the board (the part that it is important to maintain control of) and move with an attack plan in which you take all of your opponent’s pieces (I for one, have no idea how you go about this without having control of said center of the board) you will honestly lose every single chess game you ever play. But I’m assuming you’ve never played a chess game before and just wanted to try to turn someone’s point around on them by hoping that they were clueless as to how the game is played as well. Real shady move bud.

swiftpaw.6397:

AntiGw.9367:

haviz.1340:

Do you even have a clue who will get mostly punished if they make mobs unskippable without reducing their hp 2-3 times and improving their loot tables? Even the dev anet fired knew it. You apparently do not know it.

Everyone that is used to getting loot without fighting the mobs.

Flew right over your head. Right. Over. it.

In our universe, we said something like this …
“Right through it like nothing in there.”

AntiGw.9367:

I don’t need to have any authority to judge anything, and I don’t need to be anybody. I have every right to judge everything in this game, like anybody else.

True, you don’t need to be anybody to cast a judgement, however, you should judge things based on evidence founded in reality. Your opinion

You are not “given” a choice to skip, it’s an unexpected loophole like any other

is not founded in anything. It’s just that: your opinion. When you make judgements based on only your opinion, you’re being prejudgemental. You’re being prejudice.

If you actually read Hrouda’s post, they actually DID consider that people would skip. It’s not a loophole, it was a careful calculation on their part about what they wanted to have optional and what they didn’t want to have optional.

Lastly, I noticed that you chose not to respond to one of my previous posts. Mind giving a thoughtful response to it?

swiftpaw.6397:

Thoughtful. good one.

I’d written a bit more, but I wasn’t in the mood to get infracted, so I edited the post. Plus, I’d actually like him to respond, since I’m somewhat curious to see what he has to say about it.

Syn Sity.5826:

" If you go for the king without controlling the board, then yes you need to take pretty much every single one of his pieces. Otherwise they’ll take your king instead."

That is the worst sentence I’ve ever read. If you go for the king without controlling the board then you need a quick attack plan. You are pretty much saying if this attack doesn’t work then I will resign. If you tried to surrender the center of the board (the part that it is important to maintain control of) and move with an attack plan in which you take all of your opponent’s pieces (I for one, have no idea how you go about this without having control of said center of the board) you will honestly lose every single chess game you ever play. But I’m assuming you’ve never played a chess game before and just wanted to try to turn someone’s point around on them by hoping that they were clueless as to how the game is played as well. Real shady move bud.

You can’t make a “quick attack plan” that doesn’t involve controlling the board. That’s not a plan, that’s a gamble. Attack plans that do work are inherently denying the opponent control of a board area.

DigitalKirin.9714:

AntiGw.9367:

I don’t need to have any authority to judge anything, and I don’t need to be anybody. I have every right to judge everything in this game, like anybody else.

True, you don’t need to be anybody to cast a judgement, however, you should judge things based on evidence founded in reality. Your opinion

You are not “given” a choice to skip, it’s an unexpected loophole like any other

is not founded in anything. It’s just that: your opinion. When you make judgements based on only your opinion, you’re being prejudgemental. You’re being prejudice.

If you actually read Hrouda’s post, they actually DID consider that people would skip. It’s not a loophole, it was a careful calculation on their part about what they wanted to have optional and what they didn’t want to have optional.

Lastly, I noticed that you chose not to respond to one of my previous posts. Mind giving a thoughtful response to it?

They didn’t put it there for you to cheese, they left it there because they didn’t have the resources to fix it properly, while recognizing that you would of course take full advantage of it.

That’s not my opinion. Skipping is an obvious loophole.

AntiGw.9367:

That’s not my opinion. Skipping is an obvious loophole.

If this statement is not your opinion and based on fact, then provide it.

Plus: I like how you’ve decided to ignore my question about forming your own parties and advertising it as “non-skipping”. What this tells me is a few possible things. Either:

1. You’re lazy. It is possibly too much effort for you to form your own party and you’d rather join a party and make yourself unhappy when they skip stuff, and be morally outraged when they do.

Or

2. You join a party already knowing that in all likelihood that they will skip at least some mobs, but possibly hoping that they don’t. If the former, then you must enjoy being morally outraged and actually like getting into fights with people. If the latter, then I’d say you are being willfully ignorant.

Of the options above, I believe you actually enjoy telling people “this is how the game should be played” and standing on your own morality, feeling like it’s the superior one.

DigitalKirin.9714:

AntiGw.9367:

That’s not my opinion. Skipping is an obvious loophole.

If this statement is not your opinion and based on fact, then provide it.

Provide what? Something that is self-evident?

What is the next fact you are going to ask me to provide? That you are meant to <gasp> jump in a jumping puzzle?

AntiGw is like Kodiak in elementalist subforum.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Of the options above, I believe you actually enjoy telling people “this is how the game should be played” and standing on your own morality, feeling like it’s the superior one.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

AntiGw.9367:

Provide what? Something that is self-evident?

Yep. I’m asking you to prove it. If it’s so self evident, then the proof should be easy. But you can’t. Because there’s no fact to support your opinion.

DigitalKirin.9714:

AntiGw.9367:

Provide what? Something that is self-evident?

Yep. I’m asking you to prove it. If it’s so self evident, then the proof should be easy. But you can’t. Because there’s no fact to support your opinion.

I don’t need to prove anything. You are the one making an illogical claim, so it’s your responsibility to provide proof for anything.

Mobs were put in the dungeons for you to fight. You get a reward for fighting through the mobs, not for skipping to the end boss in two minutes. Are you suggesting that you are meant to get substantial rewards for avoiding most of the fights?

You really need to stop performing these mental gymnastics to justify your cheesing.

AntiGw.9367:

I don’t need to prove anything.

False. Status quo right now is that some people skip and some people don’t. Status quo is also that ANet recognizes that skipping occurs and has indeed build some instances with the intent of having some parts skipped.

You are attempting to change the status quo. Therefore, the onus lies with you to make an argument as to why the status quo should be changed.

AntiGw.9367:

You are the one making an illogical claim

It’s only illogical to you.

so it’s your responsibility to provide proof for anything.

I have provided proof. You’d better go read.

AntiGw.9367:

You get a reward for fighting through the mobs, not for skipping to the end boss in two minutes.

This is false. You actually can skip mobs and kill the end boss and receive the end rewards. What you’re saying is what you’d like the system to be.

AntiGw.9367:

You really need to stop performing these mental gymnastics to justify your cheesing.

I’m sorry if logic seems like gymnastics to you. I guess I’m just too used to logic and gymnastic endeavors.

DigitalKirin.9714:

AntiGw.9367:

I don’t need to prove anything.

False. Status quo right now is that some people skip and some people don’t. Status quo is also that ANet recognizes that skipping occurs and has indeed build some instances with the intent of having some parts skipped.

You are attempting to change the status quo. Therefore, the onus lies with you to make an argument as to why the status quo should be changed.

AntiGw.9367:

You are the one making an illogical claim

It’s only illogical to you.

so it’s your responsibility to provide proof for anything.

I have provided proof. You’d better go read.

AntiGw.9367:

You get a reward for fighting through the mobs, not for skipping to the end boss in two minutes.

This is false. You actually can skip mobs and kill the end boss and receive the end rewards. What you’re saying is what you’d like the system to be.

AntiGw.9367:

You really need to stop performing these mental gymnastics to justify your cheesing.

I’m sorry if logic seems like gymnastics to you. I guess I’m just too used to logic and gymnastic endeavors.

You are wrong on everything you said.

The “status quo” is that the entire game has been constantly rebalanced since launch to address exploits and cheesy mechanics. Bugs have been and are being fixed, exploits have been and are being closed, farming spots have been and are being shut down to encourage better designed activities.

Current dungeons are not designed for skipping, except for a select few spots. That means you are not supposed to skip them. The devs can’t fix skipping right now due to a number of reasons, and you are twisting that fact to mean that skipping all fights is a part of the game.

You are making a claim that skipping all the encounters that devs spent time and money to make and put into the dungeons, and getting a full reward for no effort, is somehow a valid tactic. That claim goes agains everything that has been happening in GW2 in the last… forever, because the devs have always been improving and removing badly designed exploits like that.

This is the “status quo”, and if you continue to claim that inferior design loopholes (skipping) are intentional, than it’s you who need to provide a proof to suppport it.

AntiGw.9367:

Current dungeons are not designed for skipping, except for a select few spots. That means you are not supposed to skip them. The devs can’t fix skipping right now due to a number of reasons, and you are twisting that fact to mean that skipping all fights is a part of the game.

I’m sure you are supposed to spend 2hrs in arah on average when Robert told us they had intended to have dungeons doable in 30 minutes.

haviz.1340:

AntiGw.9367:

Current dungeons are not designed for skipping, except for a select few spots. That means you are not supposed to skip them. The devs can’t fix skipping right now due to a number of reasons, and you are twisting that fact to mean that skipping all fights is a part of the game.

I’m sure you are supposed to spend 2hrs in arah on average when Robert told us they had intended to have dungeons doable in 30 minutes.

When they get around to rebalancing them, you’ll be able to do them in whatever time they’ll be doable then.

The funny thing is that even if they removed skipping, the good players will still clear everything ridiculously faster because they will have the most efficient builds for doing so.

Nokaru.7831:

The funny thing is that even if they removed skipping, the good players will still clear everything ridiculously faster because they will have the most efficient builds for doing so.

Well this is what this whole discussion boils down to. Elitists feeling insecure and thinking that “rabble” is trying to handicap them so that they can’t clear dungeons faster.

The reality is, nobody cares that you clear them faster. We want a better game, not to make you do things slower.

AntiGw.9367:

Nokaru.7831:

The funny thing is that even if they removed skipping, the good players will still clear everything ridiculously faster because they will have the most efficient builds for doing so.

Well this is what this whole discussion boils down to. Elitists feeling insecure and thinking that “rabble” is trying to handicap them so that they can’t clear dungeons faster.

The reality is, nobody cares that you clear them faster. We want a better game, not to make you do things slower.

imo limiting ways of interaction or paths to success is a way to make a game worse; having options on how to deal with mobs is better than just having 1 way to do it.

dungeon paths are too linear already.

Bread.7516:

imo limiting ways of interaction or paths to success is a way to make a game worse; having options on how to deal with mobs is better than just having 1 way to do it.

dungeon paths are too linear already.

But it’s not how he wants.

AntiGw.9367:

Nokaru.7831:

The funny thing is that even if they removed skipping, the good players will still clear everything ridiculously faster because they will have the most efficient builds for doing so.

Well this is what this whole discussion boils down to. Elitists feeling insecure and thinking that “rabble” is trying to handicap them so that they can’t clear dungeons faster.

The reality is, nobody cares that you clear them faster. We want a better game, not to make you do things slower.

The point he is making is these “elitist” zerkers you speak of, most likely won’t care that they did this. It will take a couple more minutes because they will find the most efficient way.

The baddies that whine and moan about stacking will get hurt. Instead of +10 minutes it will be +50 minutes. The casuals will complain about how long they take, and they will try to force their way into speedruns even more.

This thread has now gone a full circle. Yay! Too bad there is no block on the forums.

We do have an option to skip. The fact that we can, and anet doesn’t ban for exploiting, means we do.

I can’t read this thread anymore…. =( It hurts my heart too much.

Bread.7516:

AntiGw.9367:

Nokaru.7831:

The funny thing is that even if they removed skipping, the good players will still clear everything ridiculously faster because they will have the most efficient builds for doing so.

Well this is what this whole discussion boils down to. Elitists feeling insecure and thinking that “rabble” is trying to handicap them so that they can’t clear dungeons faster.

The reality is, nobody cares that you clear them faster. We want a better game, not to make you do things slower.

imo limiting ways of interaction or paths to success is a way to make a game worse; having options on how to deal with mobs is better than just having 1 way to do it.

dungeon paths are too linear already.

You can always ask for more ways of interaction and options. You shouldn’t ask for exploits to remain and act like they are a valid tactic.

The problem is that a lot of people prefer to have these exploits instead of a healthy game.

AntiGw.9367:

Elitists feeling insecure and thinking that "rabble" is trying to handicap them so that they can't clear dungeons faster.

The reality is, nobody cares that you clear them faster. We want a better game, not to make you do things slower.

Bullkitten. Nothing’s stopping you from doing a full clear of the dungeons right now.

You’re arguing for removing the ability to skip mobs, something which you do not want to do. So how would this improve the game for you? It’s precisely about attempting to hinder people who are better and faster, but as many are pointing out, you’re too ignorant to consider the consequences of your requested modifications. We will always be better, and faster, and more efficient. The best case scenario is maybe you close the gap a tiny bit. But anything that slows us down will slow you down even more.

And I should point out once again that NOBODY CARES WHAT WAS INTENDED. Skipping is possible, therefore we do it. If you don’t like it, you think it’s an exploit, whatever, just report people that do it. Do let us know how well that works out for you.

Broadicea.8294:

AntiGw.9367:

Elitists feeling insecure and thinking that "rabble" is trying to handicap them so that they can't clear dungeons faster.

The reality is, nobody cares that you clear them faster. We want a better game, not to make you do things slower.

Bullkitten. Nothing’s stopping you from doing a full clear of the dungeons right now.

You’re arguing for removing the ability to skip mobs, something which you do not want to do. So how would this improve the game for you? It’s precisely about attempting to hinder people who are better and faster, but as many are pointing out, you’re too ignorant to consider the consequences of your requested modifications. We will always be better, and faster, and more efficient. The best case scenario is maybe you close the gap a tiny bit. But anything that slows us down will slow you down even more.

And I should point out once again that NOBODY CARES WHAT WAS INTENDED. Skipping is possible, therefore we do it. If you don’t like it, you think it’s an exploit, whatever, just report people that do it. Do let us know how well that works out for you.

So just because I don’t exploit, exploits shouldn’t be fixed? And people should be able to get full dungeon reward for no effort?

Yeah, no.

If it’s an exploit, please feel free to report me for skipping mobs. If anet bans me, you win.

Skipping is now an exploit. So we’re back to this?

AntiGw.9367:

You are wrong on everything you said.

This is false. Reasons why:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Status quo right now is that some people skip and some people don’t.

This is a true statement. If this was false, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Status quo is also that ANet recognizes that skipping occurs and has indeed build some instances with the intent of having some parts skipped.

This is also a true statement.
ANet recognizes skipping occurs.

Anet has indeed built some instances with the intent of having some parts skipped.

You’ll notice that my two statements do not conflict with a true statement you have made here:

AntiGw.9367:

The “status quo” is that the entire game has been constantly rebalanced since launch to address exploits and cheesy mechanics. Bugs have been and are being fixed, exploits have been and are being closed, farming spots have been and are being shut down to encourage better designed activities.

And you know what? I’m completely okay with whatever ANet has deemed an exploit and has closed. Most of them I actually have no idea about. I’m also completely for better designed activities.

However, your argument fails here on this part:

AntiGw.9367:

Current dungeons are not designed for skipping, except for a select few spots. That means you are not supposed to skip them.

You believe that there is only a singular intent.

In Hrouda’s post, which I linked, he clearly states “I could make enemies never drop their aggro on players and force them to fight every single mob, but I don’t see that as a viable solution right now.”

He concedes that there is a solution to force people to not skip any encounter. He then says that having this singular solution is not viable. Literally, mobs leashing is in the game because it is NOT a viable solution to straightjacket players into one path.

AntiGw.9367:

The devs can’t fix skipping right now due to a number of reasons, and you are twisting that fact to mean that skipping all fights is a part of the game.

This sentence could easily be said in the opposite: The devs can’t change skipping right now due to a number of reasons, and you are twisting the fact to mean that all monsters have to be fought.

Both of these statements are of equal value.

As an aside, though, I do believe the devs want to produce dungeons in a way that will make both the pragmatist as well as the romanticist happy.

AntiGw.9367:

That claim goes agains everything that has been happening in GW2 in the last… forever, because the devs have always been improving and removing badly designed exploits like that.

Except that the claim that is made doesn’t go against what the devs have been removing.

e.g. The bridge in CoF p1. Completing this event, along with killing the turrets/shamans just behind it does not change the state of the dungeon at all (doesn’t open/close doors). Completion of the acolytes event does change the state of the dungeon(opens a door to the boulder hall). There is no precedent where ANet has stated that you Must fight the mobs on the bridge. Nor is there any precedent for anyone having been banned for “exploiting” by skipping a non-state changing fight.

There have been, however, cases where people have skipped dungeon state changing fights. There IS precedent for ANet restructuring dungeons through rescripting and use of walls to close off exploits of this type. For example, CM.

See, the failure in your logic is this:
You observe ANet removing a skipping exploit in the game. Therefore, you incorrectly interpret, all skipping is an exploit. ANet looks at encounters in a case-by-case situation. You’re using a wide brush to paint scenarios with.

AntiGw.9367:

getting a full reward for no effort

I’d like to point out that this is a tangental issue. Throwing this into the debate we are having doesn’t really affect it, but I’d like say that there are plenty of people who will counter your opinion (that skipping takes no effort). I’m sure you could start another debate with someone else about it rather than try to cloud our debate with it.
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Lastly, I highly recommend you form your own parties and make sure to put “not skipping” in it. I believe you will be happier if you sidestep the issue and take responsibility for your own peace of mind. I do not say this in any negative way. I honestly believe that playing with like-minded people will increase your enjoyment of the game and reduce occurrences of topics like this on the forum.

AntiGw.9367:

So just because I don’t exploit, exploits shouldn’t be fixed? And people should be able to get full dungeon reward for no effort?

Yeah, no.

I rest my fwiggin case

DigitalKirin.9714:

wall of text

You split my post into a lot of out of context sentences. Try again without twisting its meaning to suit your arguments.

The fact that devs didn’t put any doors that explicitly lock you in a room means that they don’t want to lock players in encounters they don’t want to fight. The problem here is that even if you make them unskippable without changing other things as well, it won’t really result in a better dungeon.

It doesn’t mean that they wanted to give you an option of skipping them. It means that they decided to ignore skipping for now.

AntiGw.9367:

Bread.7516:

AntiGw.9367:

Nokaru.7831:

The funny thing is that even if they removed skipping, the good players will still clear everything ridiculously faster because they will have the most efficient builds for doing so.

Well this is what this whole discussion boils down to. Elitists feeling insecure and thinking that “rabble” is trying to handicap them so that they can’t clear dungeons faster.

The reality is, nobody cares that you clear them faster. We want a better game, not to make you do things slower.

imo limiting ways of interaction or paths to success is a way to make a game worse; having options on how to deal with mobs is better than just having 1 way to do it.

dungeon paths are too linear already.

You can always ask for more ways of interaction and options. You shouldn’t ask for exploits to remain and act like they are a valid tactic.

The problem is that a lot of people prefer to have these exploits instead of a healthy game.

I really don’t think skipping is an invalid tactic or an exploit as the players actually have to interact with the mobs; similar to how gw1 running and aggro control was. Many other games even encourage skipping some mobs.

And in dungeons, for daily speed runs there isn’t that much skipping going on anyway.

All this talking about chess makes me want to play a tournament of booze-chess again (every chess piece is a certain amount of a certain type of alcohol, you lose a piece, you drink it)…

By the way, in booze chess, taking every piece of your opponent before taking the king isn’t only freaking hilarious, it’s recommended, because you’ll impede their performance in any following games.