Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I can read everyone on these forums, that Simin’s update killed the prestige of “Dungeon Master” title. I have seen people complaining about this ever since Robert Hrouda stated that he was going to change her.
The main idea is that it’s a very bad change.

Let me get this straight : I don’t agree. Here are the reasons.

Lost prestige
Yes, having completed this title properly is nice. You are proud of it and display the title knowing that it is a real achievement.
But what is the most important part ? Showing that you are a great player, or being proud of what you have done ?

In any case, even if a title becomes free (just like this shark fight that was needed for a skill point and was replaced by a 1-clic action), you still know what you have done. You have had fun doing all those dungeons (which is the point of any game), you are proud of having completed them before any nerf. Not any update can change this.

Let’s compare with GW1 : GWAMM was hard to reach. You had to finish at least 2 account based titles, and most often 2 very expansive consumable ones. Doing it in 2008 was a challenge, anyone who has completed is can be proud. And then came the third consumable title. And a lot of things were made much easier, some professions were empowered (ritualist, mesmer, dervish) which, with hero mecanic (they were better than a lot of players who thought they mastered the game), made each 26 PvE titles easy. And then came an update to Survivor, letting players do GWAMM with 0 account title. And 2010 Wintersday when you only had to play around 10 hours in 2 weeks, to get your 3 consumable titles for “free”.
But what ? Yes, everyone was a GWAMM in late GW1 (2011-12). But it was nice for all of those players who were dreaming of it. Does it change our prestige, of having done it when it was still a challenge ? No. It only removes the ability to display your prestige under your name, but you still know what you have done, you are still proud if it, and you are still happy with what you have done (which is the most important in a game). (fyi I have done 2 “hard” gwamms and 8 “easy” ones)

Same goes for our Dungeon Master titles : we are proud and happy, and it’s all that matters. If tomorrow every players in Lion’s Arch displays this title, it can’t remove this.

Not so prestigious before the update
Anyway, even before the update the title was not as prestigious as you’d think. People were selling dungeon runs (“runs” being exaggerated … unlike in gw1, they could do the whole dungeon with 5 people and replace them with paying customers before last boss). You could get the reward and achievement for Arah p4 by “just” paying 15-25 gold. Anet stated that it’s not an issue, in the thread that I created to complain about that.

Also, a lot of dungeons could be done using some exploits to make them faster/easier. There are probably a lot of Dungeon Master, who have used them in several paths, which makes the title less prestigious even if those paths are not Arah4. (yes, you, the guy who thinks that “this is just using the mechanics and being clever, this is not an exploit” : I’m also talking about you).

It had to be nerfed
Even if you decide that the boss has to be very hard, in order to have the Dungeon Master being prestigious, you have to agree that Simin in the way she existed before the update, was not OK.
The philosophy of GW2 is to remove the “holy trinity” (tank/heal/nuke), and with it, most of the pre-made teams. GW2’s goal is to have everyone play any profession they like to play, and being able to go through any content with any friends/pugs who also play the profession they like.
Simin before the update, required 4 warrior+1mesmer, or other such variations. I know that some players were able to complete this fight with different team, but you have to agree that not any team can do it!
Also, Simin could often be a blocking issue at the end of a long path (discovery run with people who are completing dungeons after reaching lvl80 (=in 2012 October, so not a long experience in the game) could easily take around 3 hours. It can be very frustrating to end up being blocked there after a long run and all those other tough (yes, on 1st run they are tough) bosses, especially not being able to kill Simin after 4 more hours.
As stated in a thread dedicated to Simin, it was more of a DPS check than a perfect execution of a strategy implied by nice game mechanics.

So, I have to conclude that Simin had to be changed anyway.

About the nerf method
You may have noticed in the above part, that I’m using the work “change”, and not “nerf”. Yes, this boss could be considered as a necessary hard fight for the last path of the last dungeons, required to get a title.
To be honest, I have not run p4 since yesterday’s update. I read on forums that you can now go afk for 2 minutes and she has still not healed to 100%. This may be too much of a nerf. But it lets players who had to give up on this path, try again and have fun succeeding it instead of facing a blocking issue again. So I can’t say if her new amount of heal seems a right balance or is too nerfed, but it’s nice that it got changed.

Moreover, the above paragraph takes into account that reducing healing is the easiest-to-implement method to put an end to Simin blocking a lot of teams. RH has clearly said that it is a nice fast workaround, and that he is thinking about new mechanics changes to make this boss really nice (=hard but can be done by any profession combination, so it’s more about player skill at understanding mechanics and executing strategy, then about DPS check).

Conclusion
There is no reason to whine about the Dungeon Master having lost its prestige, moreover about the nerf being a bad thing.
Please stop ranting about this all over the forums

Eowyn

ps
For those of us/you who like harder content for challenge, don’t forget that difficulty depends on your experience : you will ding a lot of things hard at first, and too easy after 100 runs. Any hard content will seem easy once you have perfectly mastered it anyway. Don’t forget that Fractals are here for you : lvl-up in there, stay around having fun in a lvl that corresponds to your difficulty expectations, and lvl-up again once you find it too easy.
Also, remember that GW1’s HM was implemented 2 years after Prophecies went out. GW2 is only 6 months old.

Well i’m still waiting for my little sister to get one, she is having trouble with login screen button, hope they nerf that too!
They could just put option “Do you want this dungeon automatically finished?” and be done with this.

This game is really easy, no1 should be too hugely proud of clearing it all. Better than nothing tho.

Sovta : I think you don’t understand the point.

I’m proud everytime I beat grenth’s priest without falling asleep. Who cares about simin, nerf him.

Point is there should be easy dungeons and there should be hard ones. Dungeons master should learn to finish all ones, other ones can stay on easy ones. It’s pretty simple.
And titles ARE there to tell other how good you are. I know what can/can’t i do and how i did it (i did simin after lost shore update, took as more then hour, but we did it (pug) engi, me (switched from necro to ranger), another ranger, guardian and thief so it’s not some super DPS group).

The only excuse for failing on Simin before the update was if she bugged — which was a rare occurrence much like Lupicus bugging.

There was absolutely no requirement for a certain party make up — any combination of classes could do the fight. If you failed it was because your team couldn’t run sparks worth a kitten

http://i.imgur.com/iE0VjkP.jpg

You know what that is? That’s a Necro, an Ele, a Mesmer, and 2 Engineers downing Simin. The fight did not need a nerf in the least. It needed a bug fix for a rare bug, that’s it. The only other barrier to completing it was between the chair and keyboard.

when did it every have prestige?

Eliyahu.1467:

The only excuse for failing on Simin before the update was if she bugged — which was a rare occurrence much like Lupicus bugging.

There was absolutely no requirement for a certain party make up — any combination of classes could do the fight. If you failed it was because your team couldn’t run sparks worth a kitten

http://i.imgur.com/iE0VjkP.jpg

You know what that is? That’s a Necro, an Ele, a Mesmer, and 2 Engineers downing Simin. The fight did not need a nerf in the least. It needed a bug fix for a rare bug, that’s it. The only other barrier to completing it was between the chair and keyboard.

+100

Eliyahu.1467:

The only excuse for failing on Simin before the update was if she bugged — which was a rare occurrence much like Lupicus bugging.

There was absolutely no requirement for a certain party make up — any combination of classes could do the fight. If you failed it was because your team couldn’t run sparks worth a kitten

http://i.imgur.com/iE0VjkP.jpg

You know what that is? That’s a Necro, an Ele, a Mesmer, and 2 Engineers downing Simin. The fight did not need a nerf in the least. It needed a bug fix for a rare bug, that’s it. The only other barrier to completing it was between the chair and keyboard.

not really surprising you had decent condition damage and AOE, now try doing it with 2 entirely healing build Guardians and a Ranger, very painful. Felt like hitting head against a brick wall. She was most definitely a DPS race.

Guild Wars 2 had prestige? What a wily subterfuge!

Ratty.5176:

Eliyahu.1467:

The only excuse for failing on Simin before the update was if she bugged — which was a rare occurrence much like Lupicus bugging.

There was absolutely no requirement for a certain party make up — any combination of classes could do the fight. If you failed it was because your team couldn’t run sparks worth a kitten

http://i.imgur.com/iE0VjkP.jpg

You know what that is? That’s a Necro, an Ele, a Mesmer, and 2 Engineers downing Simin. The fight did not need a nerf in the least. It needed a bug fix for a rare bug, that’s it. The only other barrier to completing it was between the chair and keyboard.

not really surprising you had decent condition damage and AOE, now try doing it with 2 entirely healing build Guardians and a Ranger, very painful. Felt like hitting head against a brick wall. She was most definitely a DPS race.

So you had bad party setup, so what? Change it or don’t do it. It’s not like now EVERYTHING have to be doable with EVERY single possible party setup and build. (most of them suck anyway)

Ratty.5176:

Eliyahu.1467:

The only excuse for failing on Simin before the update was if she bugged — which was a rare occurrence much like Lupicus bugging.

There was absolutely no requirement for a certain party make up — any combination of classes could do the fight. If you failed it was because your team couldn’t run sparks worth a kitten

http://i.imgur.com/iE0VjkP.jpg

You know what that is? That’s a Necro, an Ele, a Mesmer, and 2 Engineers downing Simin. The fight did not need a nerf in the least. It needed a bug fix for a rare bug, that’s it. The only other barrier to completing it was between the chair and keyboard.

not really surprising you had decent condition damage and AOE, now try doing it with 2 entirely healing build Guardians and a Ranger, very painful. Felt like hitting head against a brick wall. She was most definitely a DPS race.

Really? Aoe? I didn’t know Aoe mattered for simin. That party’s dps is so low yet they completed it.

Ioflux.4369:

Ratty.5176:

Eliyahu.1467:

The only excuse for failing on Simin before the update was if she bugged — which was a rare occurrence much like Lupicus bugging.

There was absolutely no requirement for a certain party make up — any combination of classes could do the fight. If you failed it was because your team couldn’t run sparks worth a kitten

http://i.imgur.com/iE0VjkP.jpg

You know what that is? That’s a Necro, an Ele, a Mesmer, and 2 Engineers downing Simin. The fight did not need a nerf in the least. It needed a bug fix for a rare bug, that’s it. The only other barrier to completing it was between the chair and keyboard.

not really surprising you had decent condition damage and AOE, now try doing it with 2 entirely healing build Guardians and a Ranger, very painful. Felt like hitting head against a brick wall. She was most definitely a DPS race.

Really? Aoe? I didn’t know Aoe mattered for simin. That party’s dps is so low yet they completed it.

You could AoE her while she was Stealthed to counter her healing, while 2 people ran the sparks.

I think prestige comes in an entire package. Titles, skins, achievement points, time played, community involvement etc. I guess the only thing about it is that you can’t really display this as people can’t see your achievements or when you earned them.

I read that new article about some sort of armory type profile page. That would be nice I wouldn’t want it to show gear though just achievements, date it was achieved, skins collected/legendaries, hours played, titles.

Fay.2735:

I think prestige comes in an entire package. Titles, Skins, Achievement points. I would like it if people could see your achievements and when you earned them.

Most of them are grind based now anyway. You want Legendary? Don’t bother learning the game, reroll warrior and go CoF nolife style.

Sovta.4719:

Most of them are grind based now anyway. You want Legendary? Don’t bother learning the game, reroll warrior and go CoF nolife style.

As I said, it’s the entire package not just a legendary. Not everything can be bought and those who do it is plain as day to the community whether or not the player is actually any good if they care enough to find out.

Edit: Maybe on this profile page armory idea they could add how often you’ve done a dungeon path so people can see you’ve only done one of each of the others and a million of CoF.

Judging from the general scrubiness of most DMs it never had much prestige to start with. You want prestige? Play well. That title never meant anything.

Ratty.5176:

Ioflux.4369:

Ratty.5176:

Eliyahu.1467:

The only excuse for failing on Simin before the update was if she bugged — which was a rare occurrence much like Lupicus bugging.

There was absolutely no requirement for a certain party make up — any combination of classes could do the fight. If you failed it was because your team couldn’t run sparks worth a kitten

http://i.imgur.com/iE0VjkP.jpg

You know what that is? That’s a Necro, an Ele, a Mesmer, and 2 Engineers downing Simin. The fight did not need a nerf in the least. It needed a bug fix for a rare bug, that’s it. The only other barrier to completing it was between the chair and keyboard.

not really surprising you had decent condition damage and AOE, now try doing it with 2 entirely healing build Guardians and a Ranger, very painful. Felt like hitting head against a brick wall. She was most definitely a DPS race.

Really? Aoe? I didn’t know Aoe mattered for simin. That party’s dps is so low yet they completed it.

You could AoE her while she was Stealthed to counter her healing, while 2 people ran the sparks.

She’s invulnerable while stealthed.. unless I missed something or its an undocumented change.

Fay.2735:

Sovta.4719:

Most of them are grind based now anyway. You want Legendary? Don’t bother learning the game, reroll warrior and go CoF nolife style.

As I said, it’s the entire package not just a legendary. Not everything can be bought and those who do it is plain as day to the community whether or not the player is actually any good if they care enough to find out.

But how can you find out now how good is someone without seeing him in action? No way, achievement points and title can give you some hint but that’s it. Remember you can’t see other player lvl in FotM or things like that.

SteepledHat.1345:

Judging from the general scrubiness of most DMs it never had much prestige to start with. You want prestige? Play well. That title never meant anything.

Yes, I seen a lot of bad dungeon masters. I think to be honest skill quickly flew out of the window after the second month of release when people had found out the tactics and just got carried through/copied what others had learned and done the hard work for trying to skip things and exploit.

The new AC fights are prime example of this with so many people complaining it’s too hard.

Edit: I think there just needs to be a better way to display the things a person has achieved better so people can more easily judge whether someone truly earned their titles or not.

for pvpers and wvwers this kind of title has no meaning. this shows that you like to pve nothing more. Plus when did this title ever become prestige?

Anatolian Turk.4057:

for pvpers and wvwers this kind of title has no meaning. this shows that you like to pve nothing more. Plus when did this title ever become prestige?

It’s kind of like how near launch CoF was already ‘The Farm’ dungeon and everyone was getting CoF gear and immediately it lost all prestigious attachment. Majority of people now wear CoF gear still. It’s a shame really it’s one of the nicer armor sets.

Now that those who really want DM title can pay to be carried or get carried by more skillful players dungeon master lost it’s prestige after about 2 months. Would love it if they made an additional difficulty hardcore mode with a separate title.

It seems odd how WvW has difficult titles like ‘Realm Avenger’ but the PvE ones aren’t really much of an accomplishment in comparison anymore.

Ioflux.4369:

Ratty.5176:

Ioflux.4369:

Ratty.5176:

Eliyahu.1467:

The only excuse for failing on Simin before the update was if she bugged — which was a rare occurrence much like Lupicus bugging.

There was absolutely no requirement for a certain party make up — any combination of classes could do the fight. If you failed it was because your team couldn’t run sparks worth a kitten

http://i.imgur.com/iE0VjkP.jpg

You know what that is? That’s a Necro, an Ele, a Mesmer, and 2 Engineers downing Simin. The fight did not need a nerf in the least. It needed a bug fix for a rare bug, that’s it. The only other barrier to completing it was between the chair and keyboard.

not really surprising you had decent condition damage and AOE, now try doing it with 2 entirely healing build Guardians and a Ranger, very painful. Felt like hitting head against a brick wall. She was most definitely a DPS race.

Really? Aoe? I didn’t know Aoe mattered for simin. That party’s dps is so low yet they completed it.

You could AoE her while she was Stealthed to counter her healing, while 2 people ran the sparks.

She’s invulnerable while stealthed.. unless I missed something or its an undocumented change.

she’s not, it just seemed like it because her regen was so fast, infact dmging her while she was regening is how people beat her.

Also I don’t really see the prestige in a dps test..

Realm Avenger has no prestige either. Most just spam 1 in WvW. So skillful. >.<

I never judge people by their titles, anyways. I need to see them in action to evaluate their skills. Using a title to judge someone’s dungeon skill is like expecting a certain profession to do what it does best to contribute to the party. For example, I’ve seen guardians just spam staff 1 and nothing else when they’re the only ones in the party comp that can keep mob groups under control.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

she’s not, it just seemed like it because her regen was so fast, infact dmging her while she was regening is how people beat her.

She was invulnerable while being stealthed since 14th Dec patch.

Boy some people are really pathetic. If you honestly needed a title to remain “prestigious” in order to feel better about yourself and look good to others then there are far greater issues at hand. AFAIC these whiners who don’t feel like their title is valuable any more can go whine some more.

SteepledHat.1345:

Realm Avenger has no prestige either. Most just spam 1 in WvW. So skillful. >.<

It still takes months of work to get and you’d get it faster if you don’t spam 1 but I do admit running with a zerg tends to require not an awful lot of personal skill if any. If some of the most dreadful players I know can succeed within a zerg then yea.

That said Realm Avenger is still a very time consuming very long achievement that is not easy to get. I think nobody has it still? I guess a good way to make that more prestigious is to demonstrate death versus kills ratio.

I don’t see why there should be any prestige at all, before, people could just waypoint rush back to most fights and ignore the fight mechanic in the first place….so what’s the difference now?

One boss where you couldn’t do it?

Prestige ?

You mean those players wearing full set of CoF armor and weapons ?
Those calling anyone who doesn’t run a full rampagers set and dies 1-2 times at path 1 a noob ?
jk aside

There is no prestige involved in doing any dungeon in the game as it is because any content is iffy at best given that once we learn to do it, it is changed so we have to learn it again. There are instances where it is a much needed tweak like the invisibility items, the branch in TA and so on. As it is there is nothing prestigious in this game other than organized WvW castle raids and now top tier Guild Missions where there is clutch play involved. Even PvP is not prestigious given the stale nature of class balance across the game.

Dungeon Master in GW1 was like… wooow that dude that dungeon, no he did all of them, on hard mode !? Prestige back in the day was about seeing item X used by character with title Z, it was all about visual stuff.

I like the dungeons, they are fun to do from time to time and this is all I could ask for, but I miss hard mode a lot! I am not a hardcore player but I like challenges and that for me is when you have to think rather than to know.

I want this title implemented
“Dungeon Emperor With No Clothes”

for a team that beat any dungeon (minimum requirement is 1, could be 2 or more) w/o any clothes.

There you go, guys.
Oh, wait. You don’t have to wait for Anet to do that. You can just do it yourself and post on Youtube. And you will be instantly famous.

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

What memorization are you talking about? It’s not like learning human anatomy.

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

Are you a skilled typer? If so, how is that possible? Your motor “memory” remembers where the keys to press is.

You’re a doctor who knows how to operate surgery? How is that possible? You studied anatomy extensively throughout the years and “remembered” everything you’ve learned to obtain your PhD.

Memory is a skill. Not everyone memorizes / learns at the same speed.

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

Are you a skilled typer? If so, how is that possible? Your motor “memory” remembers where the keys to press is.

You’re a doctor who knows how to operate surgery? How is that possible? You studied anatomy extensively throughout the years and “remembered” everything you’ve learned to obtain your PhD.

Memory is a skill. Not everyone memorizes / learns at the same speed.

Press button 1, then press 3 then 2. Good job!!! Now you are dungeon master!

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

Are you a skilled typer? If so, how is that possible? Your motor “memory” remembers where the keys to press is.

You’re a doctor who knows how to operate surgery? How is that possible? You studied anatomy extensively throughout the years and “remembered” everything you’ve learned to obtain your PhD.

Memory is a skill. Not everyone memorizes / learns at the same speed.

Even a goldfish memorizes, does that mean its skilled?

Remembering to press 1,3,4, 7 in that order during a specific event is NOT rocket science.

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

Are you a skilled typer? If so, how is that possible? Your motor “memory” remembers where the keys to press is.

You’re a doctor who knows how to operate surgery? How is that possible? You studied anatomy extensively throughout the years and “remembered” everything you’ve learned to obtain your PhD.

Memory is a skill. Not everyone memorizes / learns at the same speed.

Even a goldfish memorizes, does that mean its skilled?

Remembering to press 1,3,4, 7 in that order during a specific event is NOT rocket science.

Sadly for 90% players it is and i thought DotA had bad players.

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

Are you a skilled typer? If so, how is that possible? Your motor “memory” remembers where the keys to press is.

You’re a doctor who knows how to operate surgery? How is that possible? You studied anatomy extensively throughout the years and “remembered” everything you’ve learned to obtain your PhD.

Memory is a skill. Not everyone memorizes / learns at the same speed.

Even a goldfish memorizes, does that mean its skilled?

Remembering to press 1,3,4, 7 in that order during a specific event is NOT rocket science.

Sadly for 90% players it is and i thought DotA had bad players.

Exactly.

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

Are you a skilled typer? If so, how is that possible? Your motor “memory” remembers where the keys to press is.

You’re a doctor who knows how to operate surgery? How is that possible? You studied anatomy extensively throughout the years and “remembered” everything you’ve learned to obtain your PhD.

Memory is a skill. Not everyone memorizes / learns at the same speed.

Even a goldfish memorizes, does that mean its skilled?

Remembering to press 1,3,4, 7 in that order during a specific event is NOT rocket science.

Skill =/= skilled. Skilled does not only encompass memory, but memory is a skill. Every living thing has the ability to “memorize” things, but not everyone has the capacity to remember the same amount, thus specialization.

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

Are you a skilled typer? If so, how is that possible? Your motor “memory” remembers where the keys to press is.

You’re a doctor who knows how to operate surgery? How is that possible? You studied anatomy extensively throughout the years and “remembered” everything you’ve learned to obtain your PhD.

Memory is a skill. Not everyone memorizes / learns at the same speed.

Even a goldfish memorizes, does that mean its skilled?

Remembering to press 1,3,4, 7 in that order during a specific event is NOT rocket science.

Skill =/= skilled. Skilled does not only encompass memory, but memory is a skill. Every living thing has the ability to “memorize” things, but not everyone has the capacity to remember the same amount, thus specialization.

Regardless of how much mental gymnastics you go through, remembering to press a certain button in a certain situation in a dungeon doesn’t take “skill” worthy of any amount of “prestige”.

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

Are you a skilled typer? If so, how is that possible? Your motor “memory” remembers where the keys to press is.

You’re a doctor who knows how to operate surgery? How is that possible? You studied anatomy extensively throughout the years and “remembered” everything you’ve learned to obtain your PhD.

Memory is a skill. Not everyone memorizes / learns at the same speed.

Even a goldfish memorizes, does that mean its skilled?

Remembering to press 1,3,4, 7 in that order during a specific event is NOT rocket science.

Skill =/= skilled. Skilled does not only encompass memory, but memory is a skill. Every living thing has the ability to “memorize” things, but not everyone has the capacity to remember the same amount, thus specialization.

Regardless of how much mental gymnastics you go through, remembering to press a certain button in a certain situation in a dungeon doesn’t take “skill” worthy of any amount of “prestige”.

skilled
/skild/
Adjective
1. Having or showing the knowledge, ability, or training to perform a certain activity well.
2. Based on such training or experience; showing expertise.

Dungeon master has very little prestige, but being able to dodge and do the dungeons flawlessly, smoothly, and efficiently is a “skill”. Whether that skill has any value is a different story.

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

Are you a skilled typer? If so, how is that possible? Your motor “memory” remembers where the keys to press is.

You’re a doctor who knows how to operate surgery? How is that possible? You studied anatomy extensively throughout the years and “remembered” everything you’ve learned to obtain your PhD.

Memory is a skill. Not everyone memorizes / learns at the same speed.

Even a goldfish memorizes, does that mean its skilled?

Remembering to press 1,3,4, 7 in that order during a specific event is NOT rocket science.

Skill =/= skilled. Skilled does not only encompass memory, but memory is a skill. Every living thing has the ability to “memorize” things, but not everyone has the capacity to remember the same amount, thus specialization.

Regardless of how much mental gymnastics you go through, remembering to press a certain button in a certain situation in a dungeon doesn’t take “skill” worthy of any amount of “prestige”.

skilled
/skild/
Adjective
1. Having or showing the knowledge, ability, or training to perform a certain activity well.
2. Based on such training or experience; showing expertise.

Dungeon master has very little prestige, but being able to dodge and do the dungeons flawlessly, smoothly, and efficiently is a “skill”. Whether that skill has any value is a different story.

That’s a bunch of amateur mental gymnastics trying to prove a point that is irrelevant to the topic.

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Ioflux.4369:

DeathPanel.8362:

Sovta.4719:

DeathPanel.8362:

There’s no such thing as dungeon master prestige.

Dungeons are done by route memorization and repetition, as is the standard in every mmo.

This isn’t a twitch fps shooter, getting the rarer achievements in this game just means you have too much time on your hands, not actual skill.

And why are still so many noobs in this game? This game does NOTHING to encourage you to be better player, just selfish exploiter/grinder (MF, RNG and taging in events and so)

Because just like in real life you will have people that are just bad at it. (Bad at gearing, bad at builds, bad at listening.)
There is also the possibility they are actually new to the game itself having bought it recently.

It does not change the fact that as a mmo with dungeon instances the key to beating them is through memorization, not actual “skills”.

So to say something has “lost its prestige” in this game is absurd since the only thing they indicate is the amount of time and tedium one is willing to suffer through.

News flash: Memorization is a skill.

Newsflash, it’s not.

Memorization is something anything with a brain has.

We are not talking about remembering complex algorithms, we are talking about simple grade school level memorization.

Are you a skilled typer? If so, how is that possible? Your motor “memory” remembers where the keys to press is.

You’re a doctor who knows how to operate surgery? How is that possible? You studied anatomy extensively throughout the years and “remembered” everything you’ve learned to obtain your PhD.

Memory is a skill. Not everyone memorizes / learns at the same speed.

Even a goldfish memorizes, does that mean its skilled?

Remembering to press 1,3,4, 7 in that order during a specific event is NOT rocket science.

Skill =/= skilled. Skilled does not only encompass memory, but memory is a skill. Every living thing has the ability to “memorize” things, but not everyone has the capacity to remember the same amount, thus specialization.

Regardless of how much mental gymnastics you go through, remembering to press a certain button in a certain situation in a dungeon doesn’t take “skill” worthy of any amount of “prestige”.

skilled
/skild/
Adjective
1. Having or showing the knowledge, ability, or training to perform a certain activity well.
2. Based on such training or experience; showing expertise.

Dungeon master has very little prestige, but being able to dodge and do the dungeons flawlessly, smoothly, and efficiently is a “skill”. Whether that skill has any value is a different story.

That’s a bunch of amateur mental gymnastics trying to prove a point that is irrelevant to the topic.

My point was memorization is a skill that is developed to do dungeons / obtain dungeon master. Your statement was it requires memorization and not skill to obtain. What you really wanted to say was having the skill to do these dungeons doesn’t really hold very much prestige due to the work needed to obtain the skill to do the dungeon. I think the dungeons are kitten easy and require very little skill but nonetheless, it is still a skill. I personally dont think that “skill” has very much value.