Guild Wars 2

<i>“Res-rushing” is when a player uses a waypoint to resurrect immediately after being defeated in a dungeon and then runs back to the fight, instead of waiting for their party members to resurrect them. </i>

I’m glad this is finally being addressed…but honestly…having to wait almost 5 months for something that should have never been possible in the first place has already ruined the game/dungeons for a lot of people.

Find it hard to believe this ever made/stayed in the game so long.

My belief is they left it in on purpose because if they haden’t, most people would never have been able to finish a dungeon ever and the game would have gotten poor reviews/bad word of mouth for being too hard.

By now, everyone has figured out how to exploit every single event that we don’t need rez zerging anymore. Everyone knows which rock to stand on so the boss can’t hurt you, or which way to run to skip 90% of the dungeon, or whatever, so they can remove rez zerging.

It has also caused a lot of new problems. Ever tried rezzing someone whom was defeated by a boss? Ever got hit and downed in the middle of a dodge? Ever got hit by a projectile that curved 90-degrees in midair to where you blinked? Ever used a mesmer’s downed skill #2 and ended up in an more red rings of death or directly under the boss you had targeted? Ever seen projectiles go straight through your reflection skills? Ever gone from full health to downed and have no earthly idea what hit you? Ever die in a place that your teammates couldn’t reach? Ever been dead and unable to revive because, even though none of your teammates aren’t fighting, the game still says they’re in combat? Ever had an npc wipe your party because it trained another group of enemies on you while you were already fighting? Ever had to wait and twiddle your thumbs while the camera panned around your dead body until the rest of your team finished a boss? Ever have your team do everything right, get the boss down to a sliver of health and then one thing go horribly wrong and watch your entire party wipe?

And you do know that if the boss dies while you’re defeated, you get nothing from it, no matter how much damage you did.

When we could res-rush, these things were just a nuisance. Now they can be frustrating enough to end dungeon runs.

I have mixed feelings about this.

I learned mostly through res rushing. Players won’t kick me because I died to a boss and then I learn to avoid that the next time.

I am also against res rushing because it takes away teamwork. Teammates won’t bother saving me if there are mobs on me or if there is AoE on me.

I was doing a run yesterday the first dungeon run after the patch (I only have time on weekends to do a dungeon or two). With Rez Rushing gone it really changed how the game is played. If they are going to do that, they need to do a couple of things.

1. The Choas of the mixed groups need to be fixed, there needs to be a tank type that can hold agro on a boss fight.
2. There needs to be a support mode where someone can play healer with a battle rez, trying to rez a completed downed target is almost impossible. I don’t mind the downed player, but one that is defeated is almost impossible to get back up in a fight.

We did mange to get the boss down after a few tries, but frankly when you walk away with blues after every boss fight, I can get those off of trash mobs anywhere even low level events like Maw.

GW2 I like because of its casual nature but the state of the game is worrying me at the moment.

cheers

I don’t want to go Yenkin’s route but I do agree that there needs to be a sure-fire way to gain aggro. I would be more than willing to take on every attack a boss throws at me if that gives my team time to revive a downed player. I would also like resurrection skills to be changed. For instance, Illusion of Life would be awesome if I could turned a defeated teammate into a phantasm. While they would still be able to use their own skills, they would get and give all the buffs my phantasms do. After 10 to 15 seconds, they would shatter and become themselves again. Make it an elite skill, put it on a 3 to 5-minute cooldown and sign me up!

BurnedToast.3781:

My belief is they left it in on purpose because if they haden’t, most people would never have been able to finish a dungeon ever and the game would have gotten poor reviews/bad word of mouth for being too hard.

Half-right.

They kept it in until they could fix the dungeons and get a good gauge on what was too difficult.

If res-rushing was the popular method to do something, something is probably too much, somewhere. Especially when players started recruiting for heavy armor, and shunning thieves because they get downed often.

So in other words, we’re migrating back to WoW-style dungeon raids with required classes and fits, all max level or gtfo noob. That’s just great. So much for being different.

the real problem is ONE HIT KILL nobody should die from one hit. people don’t like it in pve or pvp and sometimes it is better to leave someone to die than trying to rez cuz the party will wipe because of that.
REMOVE the one hit kill and remove way points from dungeons and the world excipt cities and towns villages .

I really can’t believe people feel they NEED to hold aggro to finish a dungeon. My advice, and I’ve repeated this often, is find a guild with people who play like you do and learn to play with them.

My guild has done dungeons since the change, and yeah, they’re a bit harder. Sometimes it takes a while to get someone back up. You start rezzing them a bit, dodge away, wait for an opportunity, someone else dances in adds a bit of rez, and then they get back up. And you know, it works.

But I could imagine that with pugging all this stuff seems like weird science. There are plenty of ways to get around this change, including several skills that people can take to help up downed players before they actually die.

It’s just that people would rather complain than figure out how the stuff is supposed to be done.

Edit: Oh yeah, it helps if you’re all in mumble, vent or teamspeak, since you can say I need rez, instead of trying to type it and hoping someone reads it in time.

WP rushing wouldn’t be a problem if the fights were crafted better. There needs to be interesting mechanics, fight change-ups and evolution within battles. As much as I’ve come to loath WoW and Blizzard, this was one area where they always impressed, again and again. This astonishes me, as ANet devs are so much more inventive and creative than Blizzard, so why are the dungeon fights so poorly designed.

Most battles involve dodging telegraphed, potential one-shot kills, while chiseling away at a mountain of hit points. And this is true all over the dungeons. Look at red circle, dodge, hit-hit-hit, look for red circle, dodge. It get’s old, pretty fast, and when you’re collecting a dungeon set, this just becomes sad.

I mean, the internal testing teams did these dungeons say a hundred times a week. How in the bright blue skies of Tyria didn’t at least one of them snap, and have the decency to go to the dungeon designers and say: “guys, this is not on, we need to talk, you need to change things up and make these fights interesting”. But no, they remained quiet, and for that I think they deserve a good old-fashioned hiding.

Yenkin.5410:

1. The Choas of the mixed groups need to be fixed, there needs to be a tank type that can hold agro on a boss fight.
2. There needs to be a support mode where someone can play healer with a battle rez, trying to rez a completed downed target is almost impossible. I don’t mind the downed player, but one that is defeated is almost impossible to get back up in a fight.

Both these archetypes actually exist. I have seen many very tough players hold aggro and kite the mobs, and myself play a heavily-focused support/group-revive role. The downside is actually the chaotic nature of PuGs. You will never get the perfect composition, so it comes down to each player knowing what they are doing. And if they don’t, there is now a very small window to learn.

Players with lots of dungeoneering experience won’t be harmed by this change. They adapt and continue rolling face.

The problem is PuGs are still going to be disorganized with the occasional new player. I wouldn’t really know how to remedy this situation for them.

Vayne.8563:

I really can’t believe people feel they NEED to hold aggro to finish a dungeon. My advice, and I’ve repeated this often, is find a guild with people who play like you do and learn to play with them.

My guild has done dungeons since the change, and yeah, they’re a bit harder. Sometimes it takes a while to get someone back up. You start rezzing them a bit, dodge away, wait for an opportunity, someone else dances in adds a bit of rez, and then they get back up. And you know, it works.

But I could imagine that with pugging all this stuff seems like weird science. There are plenty of ways to get around this change, including several skills that people can take to help up downed players before they actually die.

It’s just that people would rather complain than figure out how the stuff is supposed to be done.

Edit: Oh yeah, it helps if you’re all in mumble, vent or teamspeak, since you can say I need rez, instead of trying to type it and hoping someone reads it in time.

have you ever been hit by the strongest creature in GW2 it is the Graveling scavenger after you are bing hit nothing will help you and if another player tries to rez you he/she will be down too.
off topic. also there are plenty of vetrans that are 1000 time stronger than Zahitan the poor dragon because they have speed and hit hard (shark is one example).

Assyrian.4827:

Vayne.8563:

I really can’t believe people feel they NEED to hold aggro to finish a dungeon. My advice, and I’ve repeated this often, is find a guild with people who play like you do and learn to play with them.

My guild has done dungeons since the change, and yeah, they’re a bit harder. Sometimes it takes a while to get someone back up. You start rezzing them a bit, dodge away, wait for an opportunity, someone else dances in adds a bit of rez, and then they get back up. And you know, it works.

But I could imagine that with pugging all this stuff seems like weird science. There are plenty of ways to get around this change, including several skills that people can take to help up downed players before they actually die.

It’s just that people would rather complain than figure out how the stuff is supposed to be done.

Edit: Oh yeah, it helps if you’re all in mumble, vent or teamspeak, since you can say I need rez, instead of trying to type it and hoping someone reads it in time.

have you ever been hit by the strongest creature in GW2 it is the Graveling scavenger after you are bing hit nothing will help you and if another player tries to rez you he/she will be down too.
off topic. also there are plenty of vetrans that are 1000 time stronger than Zahitan the poor dragon because they have speed and hit hard (shark is one example).

Nothing will save you short of a stun break+quick dodge, stability prior to being hit, or a ranged CC/interrupt from your teammates.

Oh well, guess that isn’t nothing.

Bad change indeed, a few that praise the hard mode, while pugs are not worth it anymore, loot has RNG that gives it a final blow…

Aupheus.9038:

Bad change indeed, a few that praise the hard mode, while pugs are not worth it anymore, loot has RNG that gives it a final blow…

RNG loot from dungeons????

You get at lest 60 tokens for your first run. That nets you 2 rares from the dungeons token vender

PUGs are going to go away now. It will be more difficult to find people to do a dungeon with. Thieves and engineers will be kicked from groups more often. Dungeons will take a lot longer to complete. I like it! It proves that ANet has no clue what they are doing.

All these posts and nobody has repeated “play the game your way!”?

The worst part about this change, even worse than the horrible future for PUGs, and people that are simply new to a given dungeon, is that some classes now have mandatory skills.

Rangers now need to have “Search & Rescue” and Spirit of Nature equipped.

Necromancers need to have Signet of Undeath.

Mesmers need to have Illusion of Life.

Guardians need Signet of Mercy.

Warriors need Battle Standard.

Engineers need Elixir R.

Elementalists need Glyph of Renewal.

Since Thieves don’t have a revive that I can think of, they may be even less wanted… or they may be wanted more because they can be at their full potential. Rangers are the worst off since they have two less skills than they normally would.

And then there’s the issue of having specific Traits to improve your healing and revive skills in one way or another… and even the possibility of needing a specific gear set-up so that you have +Healing rather than +<insert attribute here>.

Maybe I’m going to extremes here, but this was the only way we were able to complete a PUG AC yesterday, and we still wiped half a dozen times on Kohler (possibly because the three Rangers in our group stayed silent about Spirit of Nature so we could keep our Elites), and people have been demanding full exotics to join their dungeon runs since the beginning.

Death-rolling content is never a good thing, but neither is a system that encourages players to demand specific skills and traits from other players.

The forums have now hit a new low.

An issue has been fixed. Quick, let’s make a post to complain about how long it took to do!!!!

I’m astounded.

Yenkin.5410:

I was doing a run yesterday the first dungeon run after the patch (I only have time on weekends to do a dungeon or two). With Rez Rushing gone it really changed how the game is played. If they are going to do that, they need to do a couple of things.

1. The Choas of the mixed groups need to be fixed, there needs to be a tank type that can hold agro on a boss fight.
2. There needs to be a support mode where someone can play healer with a battle rez, trying to rez a completed downed target is almost impossible. I don’t mind the downed player, but one that is defeated is almost impossible to get back up in a fight.

We did mange to get the boss down after a few tries, but frankly when you walk away with blues after every boss fight, I can get those off of trash mobs anywhere even low level events like Maw.

GW2 I like because of its casual nature but the state of the game is worrying me at the moment.

cheers

I completely agree with this post ~ Something needs to be changed, if it doesn’t – honestly, its just going to cause more people to quit the game. And right now, that’s a bad thing.

Crossplay.2067:

And you do know that if the boss dies while you’re defeated, you get nothing from it, no matter how much damage you did.

Did this always used to happen? I noticed yesterday during a TA run, I died literally seconds before the boss was downed and got nothing from the boss itself, missing out on one of those bags. Sucks if this is intentional.

Did my first dungeons runs over the weekend since the ‘fix’…

Our group of 3 rangers, 1 thief and 1 guardian (me) did CoF path 1 with no problems. The rolling stones room a lot easier since the time to light the 3 flames was increased.

Then we tried path 2 …
We could not complete it. We failed the ‘Defend Maggs while planting the bomb’ room. The most we could defend was up to 72% before either we were wiped or the npc died. We tried this at least 6 times with different strategies and nothing worked. One of the party had to leave, so we moved on to AC with another player

All this ‘fix’ will do is further exclude certain classes or class combinations from dungeon runs.

AC run yesterday was no different than before the change. I can see the defend Maggs being a problem as the poster above stated but have not tried it since the fix. They did say specifically that these bottlenecks would be looked at and changed. Whether that happens is another story but will wait a few updates to see.

I love how people keep bringing up “play your way” as an excuse for Anet not to do anything that might require them to react to stimulous.

Play your way doesn’t mean take any skill you want at any time for any reason. It means that you can do dungeons if you want and level and be rewarded or you can do open world stuff, or you can WvW. You can jump right into SPvP, without PvEing. That’s what it means.

To say that certain specific instances would have some skills that are beneficial that people will take is ludicrous. It’s enough that most professions can be useful. People keep bringing up thieves for example.

We run dungeons with a thief all the time. The fact that he can stealth while reviving makes him very useful indeed.

I know people love to take things literally, but this requoting “play my way” every time the game requires you to react to the specific situation is probably not what the devs had in mind when they first said it.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

All these posts and nobody has repeated “play the game your way!”?

The worst part about this change, even worse than the horrible future for PUGs, and people that are simply new to a given dungeon, is that some classes now have mandatory skills.

Rangers now need to have “Search & Rescue” and Spirit of Nature equipped.

Necromancers need to have Signet of Undeath.

Mesmers need to have Illusion of Life.

Guardians need Signet of Mercy.

Warriors need Battle Standard.

Engineers need Elixir R.

Elementalists need Glyph of Renewal.

Since Thieves don’t have a revive that I can think of, they may be even less wanted… or they may be wanted more because they can be at their full potential. Rangers are the worst off since they have two less skills than they normally would.

And then there’s the issue of having specific Traits to improve your healing and revive skills in one way or another… and even the possibility of needing a specific gear set-up so that you have +Healing rather than +<insert attribute here>.

Maybe I’m going to extremes here, but this was the only way we were able to complete a PUG AC yesterday, and we still wiped half a dozen times on Kohler (possibly because the three Rangers in our group stayed silent about Spirit of Nature so we could keep our Elites), and people have been demanding full exotics to join their dungeon runs since the beginning.

Death-rolling content is never a good thing, but neither is a system that encourages players to demand specific skills and traits from other players.

This just isn’t the case. On the classes I’ve played there is no need to gimp your build for the sake of ressing. In my experience:

Rangers don’t need Search and Rescue, it’s still a wasted slot with a mssive cd. Quickening Zephyr is the better ressing skill along with quickness on pet swap and they function for burst dps. Tree of Life is a really good elite that all Rangers should consider taking for tougher fights anyway, it’s far more useful in group content than Rampage as One.

Mesmer’s Illusion of Life is also a wasted skill as it’s not guaranteed to get a downed player back up. The better res skill is Time Warp, again because of quickness. Aoe quickness on a couple ressers will have someone up from the deck in seconds. And ofc, it’s a huge dps boost.

Ele Glyph of Renewal is horribly bugged and should be avoided at all costs. Instead the primo Ele res skill is Mist Form. Invulnerable ressing ftw! Plus it’s a great stunbreak, panic button and a cantrip so can add extra boons like regen and vigor when used. Useful all round!

Warriors have innate traitline bonuses to ressing speed and extra toughness whilst ressing so can get away without Battle Standard. If they do take it however they are giving AoE fury and might to the group which makes it an awesome dps tool aswell.

And Thief, the class you claim that brings the least to the table in terms of ressing is probably the best ressing class in the game! Pop a Shadow Refuge and get ten seconds of uninterrupted ressing time with AoE healing too. It also drops aggro off the downed player to stop them or the resser being targeted.

I won’t speak for the other classes as I’m not finished playing them all, but you can see a trend. There appear to be great skills for ressing accessible to most classes that don’t require you to lose utility or dps.

Also the change came hand in hand with a number of nerfs to soften the blow. What else do people need? I think the people that are suddenly struggling now were becoming reliant on wp-zerging to get past the content. Now they have to play it properly. Dodging, quickly ressing team mates before they are fully downed and taking skills that add something to the group and not just the individual. This is a positive change that will only enrich dungeon running.

Now if only they’d give us some decent rewards…. but that’s for another topic.

funny how everyone here forgets that being able to Waypoint and run back into the fight was a feature advertised prior to the game’s launch.

Sad.

All these posts and nobody has repeated “play the game your way!”?
The worst part about this change, even worse than the horrible future for PUGs, and people that are simply new to a given dungeon, is that some classes now have mandatory skills.
Rangers now need to have “Search & Rescue” and Spirit of Nature equipped.
Necromancers need to have Signet of Undeath.
Mesmers need to have Illusion of Life.
Guardians need Signet of Mercy.
Warriors need Battle Standard.
Engineers need Elixir R.
Elementalists need Glyph of Renewal.

I absolutely disagree with this.

The skills you listed are garbage and almost completely worthless in dungeons in my experience.

If a player is down – you can pick him up in just a second or two (especially if someone helps you), there’s no reason for a utility with a two minute (?) cooldown. If a player is dead, they take a long time to pick up but those abilities won’t help you at all.

I use gw2lfg to find all my groups, and while yes dungeons are harder then they were, I’ve not really had THAT much trouble. As long as your team is willing to pay attention and pick each other up, it’s not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Though some bosses might be worse then others, I have not done every path of every dungeon since the change.

BurnedToast.3781:

I absolutely disagree with this.

The skills you listed are garbage and almost completely worthless in dungeons in my experience.

Hey now.
Battle Standard is amazing! 2 Second AoE BattleRes Blast Finisher that gives everyone fury and might for 65 seconds. How can you not love that? It also recharges far faster than most other battle reses, even moreso if you trait for it.

Yes, signet of rage gives you more Might and Fury, but being able to spread out furymight to 5 people instead of 1 is awesome.

Why am I not surprised that’s warrior’s version of the rez skill is completely awesome and worthwhile to use even when you’re not rezzing people (though maybe not with that cooldown) while everyone else’s is terrible?

Ok, all the skills listed except battle standard are terrible and not worth using :p

Can’t edit my post for some reason…

Just noticed battle standard is an elite, which explains why it’s so much better.

Oreoz.2573:

funny how everyone here forgets that being able to Waypoint and run back into the fight was a feature advertised prior to the game’s launch.

Sad.

I had a look and genuinely cant find a single mention of that mechanic in any pre-release interveiws or materials. Could you please link me to your evidence?

bri.2359:

Did my first dungeons runs over the weekend since the ‘fix’…

Our group of 3 rangers, 1 thief and 1 guardian (me) did CoF path 1 with no problems. The rolling stones room a lot easier since the time to light the 3 flames was increased.

Then we tried path 2 …
We could not complete it. We failed the ‘Defend Maggs while planting the bomb’ room. The most we could defend was up to 72% before either we were wiped or the npc died. We tried this at least 6 times with different strategies and nothing worked. One of the party had to leave, so we moved on to AC with another player

All this ‘fix’ will do is further exclude certain classes or class combinations from dungeon runs.

My guild group got CoF2 over the weekend and that part you’re talking about… it took a couple tries, but we got a rhythm and beat it. It took a dedicated “find the assassin” person (helped with killing), one or two dedicated “kill the assassin” people and the rest us running helping on the assassin occasionally but mainly keeping the mobs occupied. I had a blast on my mesmer messing with the mobs… took lots of dancing, moving, shattering, great sword swiping, chaos storms… it wound up a complete blast. It’s doable, you just need a plan.

Wasn’t that the thing people were saying about this game anyway?

It’s not that roles of Healer, Tank and DD/DPS are not there.
For GW2 it’s Support, Control and Damage instead.

this “res rushing” i must admit is a good {IDEA} i have had to spend upwards of 30 gold to make myself a tank to help my party get threw AC and COF. it use to be oh you died come on back. now its oh you died? we failed. and in AC when you get pushed threw the door on path 1 defending hodgins while killing burrows, if you could WP it would be fare but no! now you have to deal with 1 man down. i really dislike this patch. i know alot of you will say “you just suck youre bad at dungeons” yeah yeah yeah i whatever i dont care. but this spawn deal is bad. BUT! i will admit on COF when people would 1 2 2 and kite the ppl, they did rebuild it and make it doable with a tank. props on that.

Evil Geek.6904:

Crossplay.2067:

And you do know that if the boss dies while you’re defeated, you get nothing from it, no matter how much damage you did.

Did this always used to happen? I noticed yesterday during a TA run, I died literally seconds before the boss was downed and got nothing from the boss itself, missing out on one of those bags. Sucks if this is intentional.

I can’t say if it was always like this or not. Either way, this is a terrible side affect of this new mechanic. I found out about it the other night when I didn’t get squat when I was already dead as a boss died.

Achilles Viper.4631:

and in AC when you get pushed threw the door on path 1 defending hodgins while killing burrows, if you could WP it would be fare but no! now you have to deal with 1 man down.

I haven’t ran AC since the update but never thought of this scenario. It doesn’t happen often but it does happen. We normally don’t have a problem killing the burrows but it is another side affect to consider.

THIS NEW SYSTEM IS CRUD! IVE NEVER EVER EVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH THE DUNGEONS BEFORE. IM IN ONE AS I TYPE AND THIS IS JUST CRUD CRUD CRUD CRUD CRUD! MY TEAM IS VERY GOOD AT DUNGEONS BUT ARE WIPING EVERY TIME ON THE GHOST EATER PATH FOR THE 3 TRAPS….. WAY TOO MANY CONDITIONS…….. UGH JUST CRUD! BRING BACK SPAWN RUSHING!

Whoops caps lock……….
must have been in my seeing red rage mode……. I was using Rampage as One apparently…….

Still if the dungeons are going to be just utterly down right like this its a crud mechanic. they even said that they fine tuned the mobs to be easier…. but quite frankly I dont see it.

Oh I was in AC btw.