I’m only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.
(edited by Qelris.6901)
Dungeon Patch Discussion 12/14
I’m actually fine with the recipe, and I think it’s reasonable and makes sense that it requires mists essence. It also shows that Anet has been taking the suggestions in that not all high end recipes requires expensive mats. But I’d love to see other methods of acquiring mists essences.
I propose that players are allowed to salvage unwanted non-infused/infused Ascended rings for mists essences. The mists essences acquired through this way will also be account bound.
1. Salvaging Non-infused Ascended rings will get Vials of condensed mists essence as common salvage and Globs of coagulated mists essences as rarer salvage. The yield for salvaging Vials is 1 to 3 and for Globs is 1 to 2.
2. Salvaging Infused Ascended rings will get Globs of coagulated mists essence as common salvage and Shard of crystallized mists essence as rarer salvage. (The yield for Shard will be fixed at 1 only and as a rarer salvage.)
Note: Salvaging Ascended rings is effected by the quality of the salvage kit used, just like salvaging Ectos from rares and exotics.
“If you sacrifice nothing, you gain nothing”
GWAMM & CotG
[HERO] – Star Leader – Black Gate
GWAMM & CotG
[HERO] – Star Leader – Black Gate
@Robert Hrouda
@Alucard
It’s a shame but I do agree with Alucard’s opinion, till the point that a guy in my guild is on 47, and he just does 10, 20, 30 dailies with us, since is completly useless and not skillful to do higher fractal levels, and Once we get all the rings we want for our builds we will be out asap from it.
The situation is really “stupid” the difficulty scale is just HP and Damage on the mobs, no new mechanics or something similar, I remember going to fractal 9 to 10, and saying : oh my this is going to be good the agony is hitting now on skills and you need to dodge them, blabla, I had a blast, first 2 days we were on 20+ and we loved it, after a while we realised, the only thing you got for us was more HP and damage, and rewards were exactly the same ones..
Thanks Alucard for your long post, and hope those meetings you have from now on tend to split less coffee and make more optimal decisions, old dungeons had a good philosophy behind it, this new one, reminds me more of a Korean game, than actually GW2.
Stop crying your 15min rush zergs noone enjoys now take 20min. Don’t like the game – don’t play – plenty more space for the thousands that do enjoy the game so much they aint got the time to whine on forums.
@sammael.7136
Have you read the thread, or you just posted something randomly for the sake of it?
The topic we are discussing is not how long we take, is how it is designed and the consequences it’s creating to players in low and high lvl of fractals.
I love how you fix every single way of decent money farm, and reduce money income to a minimum while on the other side you put in game new items that require stack of ectos and/or stack of t6 mats to create ( back piece to be exact ), and again stack of ecto to upgrade, and once again stack of ecto to ugrade…
Give us loot! This game is supposed to e about getting nice, well skinned and hard to get loot. As far as i can see, you do Arah or ac, it doesn’t matter, you will have kitten blue items that sell for less than a silver each.
Not to mention that precursors are skyrocket high again, which even more frustrates players who would actually get them even with the price of 500g each, if they were able to farm, which they are unable due to skyrocket DR hitting everywhere and everything.
One more thing, you turned this game into a daily fest. Why?
Why am I unable to play certain dungeon, or event more than once if I so desire? Why are you limiting everything to once a day.
Seriously, I often have up to 10 hours of free time to play, and for what? For daily achievement, few ac/cof daily runs, maybe special event, and boom, in 2 hours i’m done with it all and have nothing more to play because i get punished severely if I do all of that again.
Quit with the BS already, this is an MMO, people want to play. Just because you said you don’t like “grinding”, doesn’t mean that you should remove farming from the game completely. You are losing players with this on daily basis because no one wants a kitten daily fest!
I don’t know if this is an actual issue or if I simply have terrible luck, but ever since that 12/14 patch, the dc-issue seems to have taken on such a frequency that I haven’t been able to complete a single run with five people – the majority of runs actually saw 2+ disconnect – which ultimately meant that I was able to complete only about 25% of the fractal runs I did since that patch.
Not sure if anyone can validate this observation, but to me it seems that something you did in that last patch has made the DC-issue worse than it was before.
Quit with the BS already, this is an MMO, people want to play. Just because you said you don’t like “grinding”, doesn’t mean that you should remove farming from the game completely. You are losing players with this on daily basis because no one wants a kitten daily fest!
I don’t know about the “losing people daily” part, but yea, you’re player base shouldn’t be punished for wanting to do repetitive game play. Wither it be dungeon farming or mob farming. the DR on doing ANYTHING more then once is out of control. Personally when Guildwars 1 had the farming nerf implemented that was the day I quit play it. Can we stop with the “pay to play” game model we have now since we don’t actually Pay to play this game?!
“Drops based on fractal level”, not really sure wth that was supposed to do, but from my screen it just looks like I get LESS loot now then I did before. You need to boost the drop rate on Vials/Globs/Shards. At the VERY LEAST they should have been added to the vendor for REASONABLE prices, reasonable meaning LESS then hundreds of relics for shards.
Also as it is now you are basically punishing anyone that isn’t fractal level 20+ with the price of the NON INFUSED rings. Are you guys scared we are going to NPC sell them for a whopping FOUR silver or something? Non infused rings should cost a MAX of 2 of the new relics, 10 for infused rings. (I’m STILL of the opinion that you should have been able to just pick 1 ring from every daily, and it should have been, Rings for level 10, earrings for level 20, and a necklace for level 30, and they should ALL be infused since that’s the entire point of having them in the game at all! I guess I have more forethought tho…) Also, give us the ability to trade rings we DON’T want for rings we DO want!
It’s not all bad tho, I’m glad to see cliffside taken out of such heavy rotation! It was beginning to feel like “Fractal of the Cliffside” for awhile there! Personally I would like to see an extra 15-30 seconds added to the timer of the swamp. As a guildwars 1 player the charr fractal annoys me, besides the lore aspect the charr model’s just run weird, if I wanted to play a charr, I would have rolled a charr. Overall tho I’m pretty happy with fractals, well not so much with the unavoidable jade maw agony and that somehow “more mod hp/dmg = harder” aspects, but overall they aren’t bad.
PS Edit: Make fractal level’s and story modes account bound. Since dailies are account bound now that you’ve introduced Fractals to the game, there’s no reason they should be character bound. (Why dailies are account bound is beyond me, god knows we aren’t going to get rich on those 4 silver ascended rings that don’t drop, even tho I have 5 crappy ones)
Crystal Desert / Guardian, Ranger, Ele, Engi “pewpew!” “NO YOU FOCUS!!”
(edited by Malzeth.2168)
About Arah p3, 2nd boss takes longer to kill than legendary abomination which is pretty illogical. Why was that change pushed through? He was really easy, he’s still is. Just takes longer to kill (yes, all melees, 4 with 100b).
Also as it is now you are basically punishing anyone that isn’t fractal level 20+ with the price of the NON INFUSED rings. Are you guys scared we are going to NPC sell them for a whopping FOUR silver or something? Non infused rings should cost a MAX of 2 of the new relics, 10 for infused rings. (I’m STILL of the opinion that you should have been able to just pick 1 ring from every daily, and it should have been, Rings for level 10, earrings for level 20, and a necklace for level 30, and they should ALL be infused since that’s the entire point of having them in the game at all! I guess I have more forethought tho…) Also, give us the ability to trade rings we DON’T want for rings we DO want!
I haven’t actually run a daily in the 1-9 range, so I don’t know, but if pristine relics drop there, and in the 10-19, 5 days of dailies and you’ve got a non-infused ring. If you’re running 1-9 dailies and 10-19 dailies for pristine relics, chances are you’ll get a vial or glob here or there over those 5 days, so you’ll be well on your way to an infused ring. I strongly disagree with your assertion that basically non-infused and infused rings should all but be laying on the ground. I appreciate that they aren’t super duper common. I really don’t have a problem with the method to get them as it stands now. That said, I disagree with the removal of vials from 10+ and globs from 20+. As Alucard mentioned, being able to break down shards into globs and globs into vials makes sense. Also, purchasing shards/globs/vials from a vendor for relics makes sense to me as well.
It’s not all bad tho, I’m glad to see cliffside taken out of such heavy rotation! It was beginning to feel like “Fractal of the Cliffside” for awhile there! Personally I would like to see an extra 15-30 seconds added to the timer of the swamp. As a guildwars 1 player the charr fractal annoys me, besides the lore aspect the charr model’s just run weird, if I wanted to play a charr, I would have rolled a charr. Overall tho I’m pretty happy with fractals, well not so much with the unavoidable jade maw agony and that somehow “more mod hp/dmg = harder” aspects, but overall they aren’t bad.
Swamp timer is just fine. It’s tight for the further wisps , but completely doable. If teams are unable to complete it with the current timer, they need to figure out different strategies, figure out where the traps are, get familiar with the map, etc. It’s a player skill failure, nothing more.
As for the Ascalon fractal, I really like it. I did roll a charr, but i’ve been transformed into a human for things like transformation potions and the like, and I don’t mind it. I like the fact that it’s different, it’s new, fresh, and what it means for possibilities in the future. I think I read somewhere that someone was hopeful for a Primordius/Asura siege type fractal. That sounds really awesome and exciting, and I would expect nothing less than being turned into an asuran! I rolled charr, but I don’t mind getting a flavor of something different for a few minutes of a fractal.
Hey Robert,
You said that the bosses in Honor of the Waves were not changed. I have been running that dungeon for quite some time, and to my knowledge, Hotw Path 1 Aldus Stormbringer does not spawn adds previously.
However, after the 14/12 patch, the encounter is spawning adds frequently during the fight, like 2-3 at a time. The adds are not veteran, they are silver grade. These adds made the boss encounter much harder. I did this Path 1 three times, and all three times have adds spawning.
May I know if this is really inteded or not?
Hey Robert,
You said that the bosses in Honor of the Waves were not changed. I have been running that dungeon for quite some time, and to my knowledge, Hotw Path 1 Aldus Stormbringer does not spawn adds previously.
However, after the 14/12 patch, the encounter is spawning adds frequently during the fight, like 2-3 at a time. The adds are not veteran, they are silver grade. These adds made the boss encounter much harder. I did this Path 1 three times, and all three times have adds spawning.
May I know if this is really inteded or not?
He did spawn adds previously. There was a bug where you can interrupt his speech by killing every mobs before he finishes it.
I’m only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.
I think it’s odd you made a “dungeon changes discussion patch” when all the dungeon changes that we have been waiting for since before the Lost Shores patch have yet to hit live.
Non-FotM dungeons are still terrible, fotm is still fragmenting and disconnecting people.
The only changes to dungeons in this patch are 1) Mitigating the RNG on rings, which is a plus; 2) forcing players to farm low-level fractals for vials/globs since there’s no way to downgrade; and 3) adding more trash to non-fotm dungeons when currently the #1 complaint about non-fotm dungeons is that they’re tedious and full of trash.
So…1 step forward, 2 steps back…
I think it’s odd you made a “dungeon changes discussion patch” when all the dungeon changes that we have been waiting for since before the Lost Shores patch have yet to hit live.
Non-FotM dungeons are still terrible, fotm is still fragmenting and disconnecting people.
The only changes to dungeons in this patch are 1) Mitigating the RNG on rings, which is a plus; 2) forcing players to farm low-level fractals for vials/globs since there’s no way to downgrade; and 3) adding more trash to non-fotm dungeons when currently the #1 complaint about non-fotm dungeons is that they’re tedious and full of trash.
So…1 step forward, 2 steps back…
I agree it was probably a mistake for Rob to add some more monsters/buff up existing monsters in the dungeons without improving the reward.
Looking at it from his side of things, I can understand that his goal is to “even out” the paths in all the dungeons, so that one path isn’t severely overplayed compared to the others.
The problem with that concept is that people are always going to find something that is easiest for them, and they will always prefer to run that over something that gives them more of a headache. Just because everyone runs path 3 of arah, for example, because it’s the easiest path, doesn’t mean “oh well I better make that harder then so they’ll have a reason to run the other paths.”
What I think Rob should have done, if he were to add new mobs, is…
1) Make them optional to kill— as well as reward some kind of mini-chest for doing so. Maybe some compromise on what the chest can drop (extreme small chance of a precursor like other chests, etc), but not just give away rare or exotic weapons & armor for killing a few monsters. An extreme small chance for those things, however, wouldn’t be bad.
- This would introduce new monsters, with a small reward for killing them, yet not force people to fight things they used to be able to skip. I’m sure something like this would be a fair compromise & would make many people happy.
2) Create a “grudge” system. “What’s a grudge system,” you ask?
Think of it this way… right now, there’s no way to convince an experienced player that it would be better for them not to skip monsters. In other words, experienced players are always going to want to get through a dungeon as quickly as possible, and skip things that aren’t mandatory.
Even if you introduce some sort of small reward for not skipping things, it won’t be enough to convince a player it’s worth his time. And you can’t really give them a huge reward for playing the dungeon the way you wanted them to play it from the start.
There’s an illusion of a complicated issue here that has no answer. But it’s only an illusion.
A “grudge system” would be that answer.
This is how a grudge system would work:
Players have the option of either fighting the majority of monsters in a dungeon or skipping them, just like how it is now (or was, in some cases). However, the more monsters they skip, the more of a grudge they acquire. This grudge lasts for a long amount of time (lets say until the next “daily reset” occurs).
All bosses in all dungeons should gain a mechanic that tacks on their “grudge” to players who get hit by one or multiple signature moves. This would be very much akin to agony, except that there would be no way to have defense for it, and more of a “grudge” meant that it did more and more damage per tick through it’s duration.
If a player had skipped nearly all the monsters in 2 or 3 different runs, let’s say, the grudge would instantly kill them.
I feel that this is a good way to both reward players (in a way) for killing everything, by making bosses easier, yet not force it onto experienced players that feel they have mastered the bosses and can handle them without getting hit by certain signature moves.
If such a system WAS implemented, I believe the rewards should be increased significantly for all dungeons.
3) Reward players for [seemingly] better gameplay:
I think that there should be different types of bonuses for different displays of skill in a dungeon run:
1) “Flawless Victory” bonus— One of the best bonuses possible, rewarded for a run where no team member fully dies. If any member dies, no one gets this reward.
2) “Less deaths equals more gold” bonus— A team-based bonus that will apply to a dungeon run where team members die less than a certain number of times. For example, you give people a “6 death limit” on Arah Path 3. This means that, as a team, if the death toll stays at 6 or under, the rewards improve by a certain %. So, if in one run, there were only 3 deaths, you’re rewards would be improved accordingly. If you had 4 deaths as a team, your rewards would be worse than the 3-death reward, etc etc. If the deaths add up to more than 6 times, then the reward simply scales back to what it was normally.
This way no one is punished if they suck, yet they are rewarded if they prove they have good teamwork and player skill. It will motivate people to get better at dungeons and will eliminate the crutch of things like bringing lupus to a waypoint and dying repeatedly as you slowly kill him. People could still do it, but their rewards would just be normal then, when they could be a lot better if they managed to kill him without dying.
For now I think only full-deaths should be penalized, not being downed. (Though perhaps something can be done with that as well)
3) “Time is money” bonus— If players manage to complete each boss fight (or all boss fights as a whole) under a certain time limit, they get rewarded for having good strategy, being efficient at killing the boss, and not dying (since dying would slow down their boss fight greatly). This should be focused MORE on how much longer it would take if they had to revive a member mid-fight, rather than attempt to force everyone to invite a warrior-type class for maximum DPS.
These are just some thoughts off the top of my head. I think if Robert takes a look at them and meditates about his own gaming ideas, he’ll come up with something that accomplishes what he wants and at the same time doesn’t anger the player-base.
-snip-
Yes, let’s make dungeons even more tedious! Brilliant idea. Your idea is curing symptoms, not a source of problems. What they need to change so people wouldn’t skip EVERY single trash mob encounter is to give them better loot and a chance to get tokens (not 0.01% for 2 tokens).
Warrior-type dps is currently the best in dungeons. Clearing trash right now is best if you go full glass cannon and kill them before they kill you. Which probably wasn’t how they were designed.
After some thoughts, I’m really wondering how that would work in Arah which is crawled with optional mobs. Do you want people to kill 400 trash there to spend eternity at pointless activity (especially when most people try to build tanking/survivability gear)
(edited by haviz.1340)
I don’t know if this is an actual issue or if I simply have terrible luck, but ever since that 12/14 patch, the dc-issue seems to have taken on such a frequency that I haven’t been able to complete a single run with five people – the majority of runs actually saw 2+ disconnect – which ultimately meant that I was able to complete only about 25% of the fractal runs I did since that patch.
Not sure if anyone can validate this observation, but to me it seems that something you did in that last patch has made the DC-issue worse than it was before.
I’d like to add to this point, that the problem appears to be especially frequently in the dredge fractal, after the button mechnism, but before the frist boss. So either when you do the bombs or the canons, somebody always disconnects (on my last run it happened to two people.)
I’m already at level 31 but missing 3 vials to infuse an ascended ring. [/quote]
I’m progressing past lvl30 and I don’t have sufficient vials and globs to infuse my next ring, but have 7 crystals, crystals are seriously dropping like crazy. I would rather not farm lvl10 and lower than that again. It would be awesome if we had either the ability to salvage our useless rings for them, or if we had recepies for shards that award globs/vials, or if we could just salvage shards and then have the ability to salvage globs too. Having a vial/glob vendor that uses shards as currency would work too.
Edit: I just learned there is a simple recipe to break down a shard to 3 globs and a glob to 3 vials, so kudos to anet for this :-)
(edited by Sina.9208)
I think Alucard has presented some really intelligent, sensible suggestions as to what could be done to improve everybody’s dungeon experiences. I think everyone has their own preferred way of running a dungeon. I personally despair whenever I am in a group, and someone starts yelling “skip skip skip”. When I join a dungeon group I go because I fancy that sort of experience and everything that comes along with it. Sure, sometimes I go to farm tokens too, but my general mentality about it remains the same. I do feel though that the usual reasoning behind wanting to skip mobs, which usually comes down to very little rewards for doing so. Not that I believe every mob in a dungeon should drop something spectacular, but I do feel an improvement to the drops is needed (this opinion being made in the backdrop to also working towards my legendary which obviously involves a massive amount of material gathering).
But also remember that Guild Wars 2 is still rather new, and it will take a bit of time and feedback to attain the proper balance.
Dungeons were perfect at launch when it actually required skill and team work to succeed and their rewards were considered to be a prestiege.
it’s sad that it didn’t last very long and Anet decided to cater to all the whiners who had a whole world of content and yet insisted for that little niche to get nerfed just because they couldn’t be arsed to work as a team or use their head.
Ironicaly,those same type of players will always keep whining because nothing can ever come easily enough for them.such is the price Anet chose willingly to accept by catering to them.
At launch if I wore CoF armor I could feel proud of my achievment. now it’s just a joke.
Only question I have: WHY?
HotW was way too easy and not nearly tedious enough.
Oh and buff the kitten chest loot. Receiving 3 blues over and over again is NOT fun.
Yeah, that sounds about right. Add tedium, no increased rewards, don’t mention why, state that nothing’s changed.
I’m confused……
It’s been our policy not to mention exploit fixes/farm kills in patch notes. I’ll discuss more visibility with the people in charge of our patch notes in regard to those actions with dungeons.
We’re aware of the Aldus bug with the veteran mobs, and to my knowledge that is not intended.
Damn that’s too bad I was excited there for a minute because I thought Anet wants to make dungeons a bit harder than a faceroll.
Boss bodies are vanishing way too fast in CM at least, I look away for 5 seconds and they are gone.
I received a Vial of Condensed Mist Essence on Fractal scale 22 about an hour ago.
One of my party members got a Vial from a jade colossus on either the 28 or 30 daily I did post-reset as well. I don’t mind though, i’d be happy to see the vials and globs reinstated.
The problem is that “evening out” dungeon paths just results in fewer people running dungeons period. I haven’t done a dungeon since before lost shores and dungeons are the only part of this game I really like. I had fractals to tide me over but the DC bug is so bad now I can’t run that either.
I’m really glad the holiday content in this patch is good. But Anet, you guys really need to get to work on dungeons. Fix fractals, cut the amount of trash in non-fractals dungeons by half (removing all the stupid 9-silver pulls would be a good start) and buff chest loot to be on par with fractals chests.
I don’t think I’ll ever understand why you guys are so stingy with loot drops. Epics dropped more often in vanilla WoW dungeons than exotics in GW2 dungeons, despite the fact that an epic dungeon drop was worth 100-200x as much as most GW2 exotics. Just give every chest 6 tokens, a 50% chance to drop a rare and a 25% chance to drop a non-precursor exotic. If you’re really intent on keeping token rates the same then cut it from the final reward and don’t allow the tokens to drop again until the next reset.
The problem is that “evening out” dungeon paths just results in fewer people running dungeons period. I haven’t done a dungeon since before lost shores and dungeons are the only part of this game I really like. I had fractals to tide me over but the DC bug is so bad now I can’t run that either.
I’m really glad the holiday content in this patch is good. But Anet, you guys really need to get to work on dungeons. Fix fractals, cut the amount of trash in non-fractals dungeons by half (removing all the stupid 9-silver pulls would be a good start) and buff chest loot to be on par with fractals chests.
I don’t think I’ll ever understand why you guys are so stingy with loot drops. Epics dropped more often in vanilla WoW dungeons than exotics in GW2 dungeons, despite the fact that an epic dungeon drop was worth 100-200x as much as most GW2 exotics. Just give every chest 6 tokens, a 50% chance to drop a rare and a 25% chance to drop a non-precursor exotic. If you’re really intent on keeping token rates the same then cut it from the final reward and don’t allow the tokens to drop again until the next reset.
Stop complaining about trash in dungeons. if you want to skip everything and just kill bosses ask for rewarding bosses in the open world. a dungeon wasn’t build for you to skip it and do a run in 5 minutes.
Agree with UrieltheFlameofGod, trash in dungeons is a bit much.
IMHO trash should be easy, a welcoming breather between the hard boss fights, somewhere were you can spam your aoe and feel like a kitten.
In GW2 most of the time the trash are harder than the actual bosses.
Honor of the Waves, Butcher Path
We also do HotW quite often and this is my observation of Aldus’ spawned adds behaviour:
- There are 3 silvers that are present at the start of the fight. Sometimes within the first 10-20 seconds, they despawn for approx 5 sec, then respawn again (full health, etc).
- If you try to focus down adds, they tend to respawn within 15-30sec, sometimes this triggers a full spawn, and now you have anywhere from 3-6 silver adds to deal with, which gets to be a cluster right quick.
- If you do absolutely nothing, ignoring adds and focusing Aldus, and move 4-5 party members up onto the mezzanine floor, the adds will despawn after a random period of time (1-5min after spawning, estimated). They will remain despawned (no adds at all) for about the same amount of time before respawning again. This repeats the entire length of the fight, and this is how we won.
- It is possible to kite the adds around the upper level, especially with jump-shot or other ground-target leap to cross from one side to the other. This is the other tactic we used to buy time for the despawn.
- We saw one instance where the adds got stuck in their pathing when we had 2 people on each side of the upper floor, the adds ran back and forth on the rear stairs, changing their mind on who to attack over and over. We were unable to reproduce this pathing bug. It was likely caused by a “perfect storm” of agg tables, distance, positioning, and timing.
Conclusion
We like the addition of the reflect stacks mechanic, but had a difficult time with the erratic de/re-spawning of the adds. Adds should be present at the start, be able to be focused down without them disappearing and re-popping randomly every few minutes. If they are intended to be a persistent fight mechanic, then we have no problem with additional adds appearing at specified intervals (for example, at 50% boss health) who can also be focused down with team effort. The real problem lies in the totally bizarre adds behaviour.
Edit: Oh gosh I forgot to mention, we 4-manned this dungeon and often had 3 up and one down (to melee off the reflect buff). All adds were almost universally agg’d on us up top. If not, we would pull them up there.
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(edited by Aryto.5873)
The problem is that “evening out” dungeon paths just results in fewer people running dungeons period. I haven’t done a dungeon since before lost shores and dungeons are the only part of this game I really like. I had fractals to tide me over but the DC bug is so bad now I can’t run that either.
I’m really glad the holiday content in this patch is good. But Anet, you guys really need to get to work on dungeons. Fix fractals, cut the amount of trash in non-fractals dungeons by half (removing all the stupid 9-silver pulls would be a good start) and buff chest loot to be on par with fractals chests.
I don’t think I’ll ever understand why you guys are so stingy with loot drops. Epics dropped more often in vanilla WoW dungeons than exotics in GW2 dungeons, despite the fact that an epic dungeon drop was worth 100-200x as much as most GW2 exotics. Just give every chest 6 tokens, a 50% chance to drop a rare and a 25% chance to drop a non-precursor exotic. If you’re really intent on keeping token rates the same then cut it from the final reward and don’t allow the tokens to drop again until the next reset.
Stop complaining about trash in dungeons. if you want to skip everything and just kill bosses ask for rewarding bosses in the open world. a dungeon wasn’t build for you to skip it and do a run in 5 minutes.
I don’t want to skip everything and just kill bosses. Neither do I want to slog through seven identical trash pulls between bosses, or do content that is only possible through skipping/leashing. I don’t know of anyone who does the 3-knight + boss fight in the hard TA path without leashing the knights and fighting them one at a time. I don’t know anyone who does CM Asura and fights the pack of 7 silver mobs all at once without leashing or skipping them. Those fights are frustrating. They’re tedious. They don’t offer any reward. They’re not fun.
There’s no reason to try and defend this content because it isn’t enjoyable. Have you tried to do a dungeon in the last two months? The only content anyone is running is fractals, because fractals is more rewarding, more fun and better designed than any other dungeon. Part of that is how the trash was designed, part of that is how loot is handled, and part of that is the dungeon design overall. It’s too late to do anything about the dungeon design for other dungeons but it’s certainly not too late to rebalance the dungeons to be enjoyable and worthwhile. This has nothing to do with any concept of difficulty.
Unfortunately, the posts I’m seeing from Rob make it sound like he’s okay with the current state of dungeons (though it also seems like he’s in the minority here). I remember changes promised but I’m not convinced any more are forthcoming.
I’m not here to say dungeons must be changed. I’m offering my suggestions as to how to make them more fun. If nothing changes with dungeons, fine. I’ll just continue not doing them. My understanding, however, is that most people feel the same way I do. It seems like a waste to have all these dungeons that no one runs, because I want to run them. I just don’t want to feel like I’m punishing myself by doing them.
I’m not here to say dungeons must be changed. I’m offering my suggestions as to how to make them more fun. If nothing changes with dungeons, fine. I’ll just continue not doing them. My understanding, however, is that most people feel the same way I do.
To be fair, you didn’t really give any suggestions as to how to make them more fun… you merely mentioned what you don’t want to do. And it seems you neither want to skip everything and fight bosses, or skip nothing & fight bosses.
This isn’t solely aimed at you, but those kinds of hypocritical & vague statements almost give a reader the illusion that you want game designers to have some sort of arbitrary middle-ground that happens to suit your personal tastes.
When anyone voices their opinion in this discussion, and takes the time to complain about what’s wrong with a particular dungeon… they should also take the time to clearly suggest a solution that would appease them. It also would be nice to state why you are complaining about some things, despite how obvious you think the reasoning should be.
For example, I can’t really understand why an experienced player would not want to skip as much as possible in a dungeon. I can understand killing some extra things for some loot, on certain beneficial occasions, but aside from that I have no idea why anyone would complain about that. Perhaps if you think it’s too easy to skip mobs or too hard to skip mobs or suggest maybe they should have some sort of difficult mini-game that would allow you to skip most of the mobs, then the designers could have considerations to work with.
When not being clear and specific in what you want, why you don’t like something, and what you propose for a solution— how can you expect any other result than for the game designers to implement something that you don’t like?
If you go “okay I don’t want a dungeon to be tedious,” maybe anet will go “okay we’ll do something to keep it more fresh,” and they add ninjas that randomly appear and can 1-hit kill assassinate you. Then maybe you won’t like that, and you’ll complain “this is stupid now I have to be on-edge for random ninjas that don’t even give me a reward?” If, instead, you said “okay, I think to keep dungeons from being tedious, you should have random duels that force us to go 1v1 against each other for a random chest, instead of just killing more random trash mobs,” then that’s an idea people can start working with. I don’t know if anyone would agree with that, but hey, that’s something you could throw out there.
Just my 2 cents— communication between both sides is key here, not just placing all the pressure on the game design team.
New patch was definately going in the right direction but more could be added.
For FoTM could it be possible to allow us to buy the vials/globs/shards using the basic fractal relics?
I do fractals nearly every day and ive only gotten one vial thus far and im definitely getting to the point where i will need to infuse my items to get the extra agony resist out of them. Maybe another suggestion could be to allow us to salvage some of our unused ascended rings to make them drop the materials?
Fort Aspenwood GW1 Bittervet….
Reiven Kloak-Warrior / Pizza Pirate-Engineer
Charr Grilled Fish-Ranger
Reiven Kloak-Warrior / Pizza Pirate-Engineer
Charr Grilled Fish-Ranger
I’m not here to say dungeons must be changed. I’m offering my suggestions as to how to make them more fun. If nothing changes with dungeons, fine. I’ll just continue not doing them. My understanding, however, is that most people feel the same way I do.
To be fair, you didn’t really give any suggestions as to how to make them more fun… you merely mentioned what you don’t want to do. And it seems you neither want to skip everything and fight bosses, or skip nothing & fight bosses.
This isn’t solely aimed at you, but those kinds of hypocritical & vague statements almost give a reader the illusion that you want game designers to have some sort of arbitrary middle-ground that happens to suit your personal tastes.
When anyone voices their opinion in this discussion, and takes the time to complain about what’s wrong with a particular dungeon… they should also take the time to clearly suggest a solution that would appease them. It also would be nice to state why you are complaining about some things, despite how obvious you think the reasoning should be.
For example, I can’t really understand why an experienced player would not want to skip as much as possible in a dungeon. I can understand killing some extra things for some loot, on certain beneficial occasions, but aside from that I have no idea why anyone would complain about that. Perhaps if you think it’s too easy to skip mobs or too hard to skip mobs or suggest maybe they should have some sort of difficult mini-game that would allow you to skip most of the mobs, then the designers could have considerations to work with.
When not being clear and specific in what you want, why you don’t like something, and what you propose for a solution— how can you expect any other result than for the game designers to implement something that you don’t like?
If you go “okay I don’t want a dungeon to be tedious,” maybe anet will go “okay we’ll do something to keep it more fresh,” and they add ninjas that randomly appear and can 1-hit kill assassinate you. Then maybe you won’t like that, and you’ll complain “this is stupid now I have to be on-edge for random ninjas that don’t even give me a reward?” If, instead, you said “okay, I think to keep dungeons from being tedious, you should have random duels that force us to go 1v1 against each other for a random chest, instead of just killing more random trash mobs,” then that’s an idea people can start working with. I don’t know if anyone would agree with that, but hey, that’s something you could throw out there.
Just my 2 cents— communication between both sides is key here, not just placing all the pressure on the game design team.
Any trash pack where the dominant strategy involves leashing should be removed entirely. Bosses that tend to involve leashing need to be redesigned to not require/encourage leashing. Boss health needs to be reduced 25-50% across the board. Chests should have a 0% chance to drop blues, a 75% chance to drop at least one yellow and a 10% chance to drop an exotic. The amount of trash overall should be reduced to approximately FotM levels – twelve pulls between bosses is nothing more than padding.
Is that clear enough?
Any trash pack where the dominant strategy involves leashing should be removed entirely.
Which dungeon / part are you talking about, and why should it be completely removed? Can it not be altered in some way?
Bosses that tend to involve leashing need to be redesigned to not require/encourage leashing.
What bosses are you talking about? How should they be redesigned? What is so bad about the current design?
- Boss health needs to be reduced 25-50% across the board. *
Why? Can you give any examples?
Chests should have a 0% chance to drop blues, a 75% chance to drop at least one yellow and a 10% chance to drop an exotic.
Why? Wouldn’t this destroy the market value of rares / exotics even further? How could an item that has a 75% chance of appearing in a chest be called rare?
The amount of trash overall should be reduced to approximately FotM levels – twelve pulls between bosses is nothing more than padding.
There are 8 different FotM fractals— which stage/stages are you referring to? What would be the exact number or range that you would be okay with? Why?
Is that clear enough?
It certainly is better, but without explaining “why there’s a problem” or “why changing something would be better” or explaining “exactly how you’d like to see it changed, with specific, clear examples,” I can’t fully understand your issues. I tried to focus in on exactly what I’m referring to by quoting each individual section of your post and asking [what i consider to be reasonable] questions.
Something is clear enough when answers to most of those questions are already there.
Which dungeon / part are you talking about, and why should it be completely removed? Can it not be altered in some way?
I think he’s mostly referring to TA and pull with at least 1 knight (+sorcs).
What bosses are you talking about? How should they be redesigned? What is so bad about the current design?
Possibly TA as well.
Why? Can you give any examples?
HoTW underwater bosses have too much hp.
Why? Wouldn’t this destroy the market value of rares / exotics even further? How could an item that has a 75% chance of appearing in a chest be called rare?
It’s rare when it drops from trash mob. Chests after bosses should have improved loot table. I won’t say to what degree because that’s up for desingers to decide, but improvements are needed.
There are 8 different FotM fractals— which stage/stages are you referring to? What would be the exact number or range that you would be okay with? Why?
I think those 12 pulls refers specificly in contrast to fractals. As in, in fractals there are far less pulls than in standard dungeons.
It certainly is better, but without explaining “why there’s a problem” or “why changing something would be better” or explaining “exactly how you’d like to see it changed, with specific, clear examples,” I can’t fully understand your issues. I tried to focus in on exactly what I’m referring to by quoting each individual section of your post and asking [what i consider to be reasonable] questions.
Something is clear enough when answers to most of those questions are already there.
There are clearly some pressing issues with dungeons, otherwise anet wouldn’t have said they would rework them.
It feels like there is a general resentment / unwillingness to take part due to drops in dungeons and rewards from chests. Personally I would like to see blue items from chests opened in dungeons replaced with tier six materials. Perhaps trash mobs in dungeons could drop various fragments, shards, cores used to produce the various lodestones. Everyone wants to feel that the time and effort put into it was worthwhile.
How about adding the fractal weapons to the token vendors. I thought the point of gw2 was to avoid the rng game when it came to skins.
Cant say I have trouble with CoF path 1 unless the DPS your party has just sux, cuz you dont even need to kill crystals if u nuke him fully, throw in some bleeds and poison and it should be easy.
Fractal difficulty scale I agree on, 1 is more challenging than the other, and I would almost say let us choose which 3 maps we play instead of giving them random but that would ruin the surprise xD
However the difficulties need to scale better, specially as lower lvls can get in. Had a group with 3 lower levels and it was a disaster on difficulty 1. Was trying to help them up in fractals but couldnt manage it. Cliffside boss now also had some white light aoe thingy that downed those 3 players almost every time.
Lower lvls should be easy so they can progress and start higher levels on 80 when they need to get the good stuff. Or just make it a lvl 80 dungeon =|
So huh, I just attempted Honor of the Waves first path, and I got repeatedly wiped by Aldus Stormbringer. We went up the stairs and tried to snipe him from afar but then Aldus got his Shield of Jormag thingy that reflect projectile and we didn’t have any choice but to get on contact to take out his buff. Thing is, by then we had 6 silvers in the room. I know the devs are already aware of that bug and that Aldus is completely doable, given the fact that we managed to put him to 1/4 of his health before getting overwhelmed by his infinite adds respawn. But it’s been more than a week now…Any news ?
Fr – Jade Sea
Discuss the recent patch here.
Dear Anet: I will send you a cake if you nerf the Giganticus Lupicus. Seriously. Look at the Data. How many teams get up to that point then quit? And how many HOURS do they normally invest into the dungeon before giving up?
Discuss the recent patch here.
Dear Anet: I will send you a cake if you nerf the Giganticus Lupicus. Seriously. Look at the Data. How many teams get up to that point then quit? And how many HOURS do they normally invest into the dungeon before giving up?
This.
This boss is making me want to quit playing this game. Seriously. One boss, in one dungeon, keeping me away from super awesome armor.
I’m so close to screaming curse words at my computer and quitting Guild Wars 2 forever.
Fayde Lightbane – Level 80 Thief | Taveren Mighthammer – Level 80 Warrior
Kavohl Serien – Level 80 Ranger | Merin Leafsower – Level 80 Engineer
Kolbjorn Wolfsbane – Level 80 Guardian
Kavohl Serien – Level 80 Ranger | Merin Leafsower – Level 80 Engineer
Kolbjorn Wolfsbane – Level 80 Guardian
This.
This boss is making me want to quit playing this game. Seriously. One boss, in one dungeon, keeping me away from super awesome armor.
I’m so close to screaming curse words at my computer and quitting Guild Wars 2 forever.
Don’t nerf the one of the only two challenging bosses in normal dungeons. Adapt and he’s easy.
Don’t nerf the one of the only two challenging bosses in normal dungeons. Adapt and he’s easy.
What this guy said.
Who’s the other one? Simin? Alpha?
This.
This boss is making me want to quit playing this game. Seriously. One boss, in one dungeon, keeping me away from super awesome armor.
I’m so close to screaming curse words at my computer and quitting Guild Wars 2 forever.
Don’t nerf the one of the only two challenging bosses in normal dungeons. Adapt and he’s easy.
If the entire party does everything perfectly, sure.
I’m not saying make him a piece of cake. Make him doable in a PUG situation.
Fayde Lightbane – Level 80 Thief | Taveren Mighthammer – Level 80 Warrior
Kavohl Serien – Level 80 Ranger | Merin Leafsower – Level 80 Engineer
Kolbjorn Wolfsbane – Level 80 Guardian
Kavohl Serien – Level 80 Ranger | Merin Leafsower – Level 80 Engineer
Kolbjorn Wolfsbane – Level 80 Guardian
What this guy said.
Who’s the other one? Simin? Alpha?
Probably Alpha, but I haven’t fought him countless times to form my own opinion. He was pretty easy.
If the entire party does everything perfectly, sure.
I’m not saying make him a piece of cake. Make him doable in a PUG situation.
And here I thought anet was designing dungeons for hardcore groups, not pugs. They even said that they think dungeons would be too easy once players would get used to them. Last dungeon should represent something more difficult than your casual dayfarm ac/cof.
Besides, he’s very doable in pugs. I’m pugging from time to time and maybe once or twice he resetted because whole party wiped (in about 100+ runs).
If the entire party does everything perfectly, sure.
I’m not saying make him a piece of cake. Make him doable in a PUG situation.
“I’m not saying make him a piece of cake, make him doable in a PUG situation.”
I think that’s a contradiction in itself…
“A piece of cake” is usually what’s “doable” in PUG situations. Also every PUG group can be widely different— not to mention the huge amount of variables, including player skill & communication.
They don’t need to nerf any of the bosses. Even if it’s your first time playing together, if you know what you’re doing in terms of the boss, when to dodge, how to stealth / go invuln at the right moments, etc etc, there usually is no need for heavy coordination. I’m surprised you’d complain about Giganticus Lupicus (who’s in every arah path) rather than Lyssa at the end of path 4, where actual coordination is pretty much mandatory to quickly stabilize the wisps and make her appear.
That said, I have a slight grievance with the new FotM update that’s coming. Don’t get me wrong, I’m overjoyed that the d/c issue might get fixed & the level restrictions are being lifted— but as far as higher level groups go, I feel like there’s hardly any motivation for a lower level player to join a higher level player. Let’s say this:
Level 60 player looking for a group
Group of level 30 players need 1 more
———-
The level 60 player already has both of his rings & ascended gear that he wants (as well as fractal skins, lets say) so he has little to no desire to play with the group of 30’s, even for karma.
The group of 30’s need 1 more, but they aren’t about to struggle & try a level 60 run (unless they are feeling particularly adventurous) just to ascend to 31.
My point is that if a level 30 player actually completes a level 60 run, he should have earned progress up to 61. Not 31. I don’t see why he has to do the tedious lower level runs, one by one, when he has already proven he can handle the higher level fractal.
This seems counter-productive and puts hardly any motivation to help each other (lower levels & higher levels), as I certainly could care less about some extra karma, and I’m sure lower levels are not going to want to struggle in a much higher run when they don’t get the progress they deserve out of it. It won’t be the same stand-still that it is now, of course, but I feel like to open the board to non-guild members / friends you need to give them the progress they earn.
It’s unfortunate that the sheer determination to “avoid giving anyone a free ride” is turning progress into a tedious affair that benefits neither player and honestly lacks the logic that should go with it. No one is going to carry someone through a level 60 run…and if they do, they could’ve done it already with anyone at any of the levels anyway. But I seriously doubt a level 1 player will get carried through level 50. Most likely the group would see right away that he couldn’t “handle it” and have to re-organize the group.
It’s not so much elitism as it is a skill check. If someone has the skills, I won’t care what level fractal they’re on or what kind of AR they have. If you’re a guardian constantly putting up wall of reflect, the spectral shield, & out-surviving people… I don’t care if completing the fractal will skip you 30 levels or not. If you can do just as well at level 60 & complete it, you deserve to be on 61. You shouldn’t have to complete 30 lower-tier levels after you just completed a fractal twice as high in difficulty— this is stupid.
Just my 2 cents— and this is coming from someone that already played “the tedious way” up to level 60.
(edited by Alucard.8297)
Honestly, in my opinion there need to me more hard dungeons. Or create a “hard mode” where the bosses have additional mechanics. Lets face it, almost all the bosses in the game are too easy.
Giganticus Lupicus is mildly interesting, but I have yet to wipe with any guildies (a guild of like 80 members) while doing this boss, and for several of us it was our first time trying the boss, and we completed it on that first try. The simin priestess fight was interesting, but after 20 minutes we got it down, and today we did it in our first try in about 8 minutes.
There are already paths and dungeons for those of who struggle. The dungeons all give exotics, the only difference is skins. If you simply cannot complete lupicus or arah, then I am sorry but you dont deserve the arah gear. Just because you bought the game, does not mean you are entitled to everything. Unlike other games, you do not get better stats with uber loot, if you want exotic gear, CoF p1/p2 are super easy to pug, so you can acquire your gear there.
If you want gear from Arah, then you have to earn it. And honestly, I want more dungeons like this. I want challenging content for those of us who enjoy skillful encounters, and I want skins that are unique to players who have the skill to tackle this content. I think that is fair to ask for.
Honestly after all the hype I read and heard about Arah p4 and the priestess fight, none of us were impressed it was fairly easy, and my group can beat this boss every time in under 10 minutes with no hiccups or “randomness” that people comment about. When we killed it and I said “good job we beat the hardest encounter in gw2” everybody just laughed on voice comms.
For those saying GW2 is casual and should be puggable and everything should be easy. If we got 2 dungeons where they are both easy, but one gives awesome looking gear but the other doesnt, then why would anybody not run the awesome looking gear dungeon? Such is the case if Anet were to dumb down arah. The beauty of gw2 is that all the gear is equal in stats, so they can in fact do cool things like making skins unique to those who tackle difficult content, cause the skilled players dont get an advantage over you, just a better skin.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
GW1 Rank 1 – 2 Gold Capes – [sC] [sup]
GW1 Rank 1 – 2 Gold Capes – [sC] [sup]
(edited by Jackie.1829)
Please make a tool to help players organize groups for dungeons. This should be the first priority towards improving dungeons in GW2. Any other improvements are irrelevant if many are stuck trying to make groups and unable to enter.
Cry Of Paine – Crystal Desert – 80 Mesmer
Please make a tool to help players organize groups for dungeons. This should be the first priority towards improving dungeons in GW2. Any other improvements are irrelevant if many are stuck trying to make groups and unable to enter.
if you’ll ever going to make a tool for it, please don’t do it the warcraft style (auto groups you), but rather something similar to this website http://gw2lfg.com/ . I really like being able to party up with people from different servers, the website also leaves you an opportunity to express exactly what you want out of the dungeon (farm, speedrun, normal run, looking for friendly people, no newbies allowed, etc), it allows you to modify your post (LF4M, LF3M, LF2M, LF1M) and then it allows you to delete the post after you’re done with finding your group. The only problem with that website is that most people in game don’t know about it. If something similar to that tool got in-game searching for groups would become really easy.