Guild Wars 2

I remember when gw2 was going through development and the whole dungeon scaling was discussed. I thought it was a GREAT concept, helping to prevent dungeons from going obsolete and allowing for faster party formations for low and high level characters.

Its really backfired, leading to all dungeons becoming level 80-only playgrounds.

I think this is a perfect example of a good mechanic implimented by a creative development team that ended up being twisted and broken by the player base.

It really depends on the group. I know a lot of pug parties are dead set on doing things that way but it isn’t essential. Good players can do dungeons at almost any level and come out on top. The second aspect is how long it takes to reach 80. It really doesn’t take all that much time to get a character to 80 if you play and stay active, and it takes even less once you have a good 80 with some money.

Dyroth.5063:

It really depends on the group. I know a lot of pug parties are dead set on doing things that way but it isn’t essential. Good players can do dungeons at almost any level and come out on top. The second aspect is how long it takes to reach 80. It really doesn’t take all that much time to get a character to 80 if you play and stay active, and it takes even less once you have a good 80 with some money.

Umm Pug parties is dead set that level scaling is a joke and a level 80 will always beat a lower level character. Traits and stats at level 80 is too much of and advantage that everyone would rather have an level 80 then the required level. Solution scale the level even lower to even out the playin field. Of course, it will make people mad as a result

Exotics makes too much of an difference

The issue is scaling, I agree. Full exotic 80s are too powerful when scaled down. I don’t even want to imagine how full ascended gear will perform when scaled down.

Just reflecting on how this scaling system seemed like such a good idea during the design process, but then seeing how so many PROPER leveled characters are being shut out of dungeons DESIGNED for their levels is sad. I hope scaling is looked at again for rebalancing.

Make your own low level groups. Problem solved.

downwithdragons.8291:

I remember when gw2 was going through development and the whole dungeon scaling was discussed. I thought it was a GREAT concept, helping to prevent dungeons from going obsolete and allowing for faster party formations for low and high level characters.

Its really backfired, leading to all dungeons becoming level 80-only playgrounds.

I think this is a perfect example of a good mechanic implimented by a creative development team that ended up being twisted and broken by the player base.

People run dungeons to get the tokens and the money. People don’t want to take lower lvls because they in general have lower dps, lower party support, and lower survivability when compared to 80’s. In the name of efficiency, people don’t want to waste time with non-80’s.

downwithdragons.8291:

I remember when gw2 was going through development and the whole dungeon scaling was discussed. I thought it was a GREAT concept, helping to prevent dungeons from going obsolete and allowing for faster party formations for low and high level characters.

Its really backfired, leading to all dungeons becoming level 80-only playgrounds.

I think this is a perfect example of a good mechanic implimented by a creative development team that ended up being twisted and broken by the player base.

What ANet has given us is choice. It’s not their fault we choose to run with 80s-only groups, or whatever ridiculous personal requirements.

The problem is not in the design, just people being elitist.
You don’t need a lvl 80 for any of the pre-80 dungeons, provided you know the how-to’s of the said dungeons that is.
I take non-80s in low dungeons and explain things to them so they perform better.
That’s what you should do too instead of gathering the ultimate min/max army to do… AC? Come on.

You don’t need to have 3-5 players on most dungeons yet people still want to go with full teams.
When people have run it enough times they don’t care about the challenge to get it done. They care about getting it done efficiently and easily.
That’s why they are looking for “exp lvl 80 dps exo/asc 4k ach”.

Wethospu.6437:

You don’t need to have 3-5 players on most dungeons yet people still want to go with full teams.
When people have run it enough times they don’t care about the challenge to get it done. They care about getting it done efficiently and easily.
That’s why they are looking for “exp lvl 80 dps exo/asc 4k ach”.

Please tell me you are joking about the 4k achievement thing. I have yet to see that but if that is going to become a trend then….oh boy starting to have bad WoW flashbacks.

Rysinsun.7306:

Wethospu.6437:

You don’t need to have 3-5 players on most dungeons yet people still want to go with full teams.
When people have run it enough times they don’t care about the challenge to get it done. They care about getting it done efficiently and easily.
That’s why they are looking for “exp lvl 80 dps exo/asc 4k ach”.

Please tell me you are joking about the 4k achievement thing. I have yet to see that but if that is going to become a trend then….oh boy starting to have bad WoW flashbacks.

I’ve only seen it once.

downwithdragons.8291:

I remember when gw2 was going through development and the whole dungeon scaling was discussed. I thought it was a GREAT concept, helping to prevent dungeons from going obsolete and allowing for faster party formations for low and high level characters.

Its really backfired, leading to all dungeons becoming level 80-only playgrounds.

I think this is a perfect example of a good mechanic implimented by a creative development team that ended up being twisted and broken by the player base.

the concept is good, its the scaling thats bad.. its becouse its a % degree’s with a high cap on stats making maxed 80 chars have much better stats then any char at the actual lvl.
i think it would be scaled in the opposite direction so that maxed 80 had at best the same stats as maxed chars at the actual lvl needed.

my exotics + traits > your lol lvl 35 in greens at best… even assuming you have lvl 35 gear on you…

Erebus.7568:

downwithdragons.8291:

I remember when gw2 was going through development and the whole dungeon scaling was discussed. I thought it was a GREAT concept, helping to prevent dungeons from going obsolete and allowing for faster party formations for low and high level characters.

Its really backfired, leading to all dungeons becoming level 80-only playgrounds.

I think this is a perfect example of a good mechanic implimented by a creative development team that ended up being twisted and broken by the player base.

the concept is good, its the scaling thats bad.. its becouse its a % degree’s with a high cap on stats making maxed 80 chars have much better stats then any char at the actual lvl.
i think it would be scaled in the opposite direction so that maxed 80 had at best the same stats as maxed chars at the actual lvl needed.

Scaling for level seems simple enough, but I’m not sure how it works for items. Traits I’m guessing is non-existent. Here are some thought though:

-Traits: Scaled based on the level limitations you’d have for the level rescale. For example, you’d be capped at Adept in Traits for AC because Master level is unlocked at 40. Any points specced passed that would not count in rescaling and any Major/Minor rune passives are disabled. This wouldn’t balance completely because a level 80 could still do a Mario build and have more points/traits than a 35 would, for example in AC a 35 would have 25 traits but a level 80 could spec 20/20/10/10/10 and retain 50 points or spec 30/30/10/0/0 and retain 25.

-Items: Why don’t they just scale down to the average of rarity available at 5 levels below the level of the dungeon. For example, in AC Masterwork is the highest rarity drop you’d get at 30, which is 5 levels below the level of the dungeon, so Fine would be the average rarity. So anyone with items that have a level requirement over 35 would have their items scaled down to an item of Fine rarity and a level requirement of 30. I say scale to average value because if they scale it to the best gear that you could get at that level then you’d still have an advantage over everyone at the required level because you will rarely have all level 35 rares (or even blues) when you go into AC at level 35 unless you pretty much crafted everything right before entering. Doing this would actually mean that a really decked out level 35 could technically out perform a level 80 if his gear was all level 35 rares. This would also give some value to non-80 crafting because if you are in the habit of running lower level dungeons you could twink your character out to be very effective even when scaled down.

Any thoughts?

Whenever I party for AC there is usually at least 1 low level person, if not more in the group unless its one of those special 80 only groups

JJBigs.8456:

Whenever I party for AC there is usually at least 1 low level person, if not more in the group unless its one of those special 80 only groups

In all honesty, I’ve run all 3 paths of AC at least a dozen times and don’t recall having a group with all 80s in it. This might be something that’s reared up recently. I will say that as an 80 AC was a lot easier than at 40-50 when I first ran it, but it’s hard to tell if it’s due to the scaled 80>35, dungeon nerfs, or learning to play my profession/dodge/sucking less at the game.

i have absolutely no problem finding a group with my 35+ chars, you still should have gear on your level, because downleveling makes lowlevel gear useless( level 35 gear is crap if your char is level 60 even though he is downleveled to 35)

this is two issues combining imo. On the one hand AC is essentially an “introduction” dungeon, one that is on theory and on paper designed for characters of 35 and up. THe problem with that is for new players the dungeon itself is needlessly difficult when they dont know whats going on, or only have a thin grasp of it. Once you become season enough “dungeon running” with a group and know wth your actually doing in the place you find it much much easier.

The learning curve is needlessly steep for such an “intro” dungeon.

That leads to player frustrations, team wipes, parties imploding, and generally being “not fun”.

On the other hand, high level characters when downscaled get such a huge advantage over players who are not downscaled that its almost comical. So some players then assume level = competancy and will only party with those of a similar level.

So that means we all lose out as new players are turned off dungeons as “not fun”, others only group with players they assume can handle themselves leaving most without a clear understanding of what or why then are then “blacklisted” from parties.

Fix the learning curve by giving players HINTS on the first run through so then know wth is going on. The address the scaling so that level power is actually equalised relatively to non scaled players and things wont seem so bad at all.

Lexandro.1456:

this is two issues combining imo. On the one hand AC is essentially an “introduction” dungeon, one that is on theory and on paper designed for characters of 35 and up. THe problem with that is for new players the dungeon itself is needlessly difficult when they dont know whats going on, or only have a thin grasp of it. Once you become season enough “dungeon running” with a group and know wth your actually doing in the place you find it much much easier.

The learning curve is needlessly steep for such an “intro” dungeon.

That leads to player frustrations, team wipes, parties imploding, and generally being “not fun”.

On the other hand, high level characters when downscaled get such a huge advantage over players who are not downscaled that its almost comical. So some players then assume level = competancy and will only party with those of a similar level.

So that means we all lose out as new players are turned off dungeons as “not fun”, others only group with players they assume can handle themselves leaving most without a clear understanding of what or why then are then “blacklisted” from parties.

Fix the learning curve by giving players HINTS on the first run through so then know wth is going on. The address the scaling so that level power is actually equalised relatively to non scaled players and things wont seem so bad at all.

I think they do a decent job of making AC a learning experience. Just look at the charge times of Kholer and Trolls kill abilities. The problem could be attributed more to the fact that these learning areas are often skipped by pugs.

I still think if they just scale ignored the higher level items and replaced them with baseline items for the level range of the dungeon it’d balance a lot of things. Basically a system comparable to Heart of the Mists, but for only gear that is above the level or level range of the dungeon. Technically level 80s could abuse this by just twinking BiS gear for that level dungeon, but that’d be a lot of effort for a pug run and a character at the appropriate level would be able to craft/buy items themselves if they chose to. At the very least this could add value to gear at dungeon explorable levels and potentially narrow the gap between full exotic 80s and blue/green 35s.