Guild Wars 2

While selling dungeons is still allowed, but barely tolerated, I had an idea of creating a specific guild, which purpose would be filling the empty slots.

Since the newest feature pack, having no opener has left us – dungeons sellers, at a vulnerable state of getting kicked out of our instance, that we solo’d or duo’d.

I propose having a specific guild which would provide us with slot fillers. So, instead of filling the spots with your guildies or friends, which might get bothered by our requests (or simply not be available at the time) you would have a non rep guild (basically just a list of players who sell dungs, and can fill your empty slots, when needed).

Example : A and B have just duo’d a path. They invite 2 players C and D from non-rep dungeon sellers guild to fill 2 slots. 5th player (buyer) joins to buy the path, D leaves, next buyer joins and C leaves. 3rd buyer joins, now you have a full party.

PM me in game, a few friends of mine are already doing this, and have a guild for it as well.
We can always use a few more people

It’s pointless since that’s what your friend list currently does.
Also they can still join and kick so selling is dead basically..yea..

robertul.3679:

It’s pointless since that’s what your friend list currently does.
Also they can still join and kick so selling is dead basically..yea..

I dont want to bother my friends every time i want to sell a path.
And how can they join and kick, if the rest of the slots are filled with your people? They cant, thats the purpose of this. I think you did not understand the concept.

I think an off-forum list of known griefers would be a good idea, too. Since griefing sellers is not going to get players banned, it’d be good information to have along with the seller’s guild.

If the list is searchable, you can check players as they join to prevent two dou // ches from sneaking in past the fillers and kicking everyone.

Nerevaarr.2840:

And how can they join and kick, if the rest of the slots are filled with your people? They cant, thats the purpose of this. I think you did not understand the concept.

A harrowing tale, presented in snapshots of party membership:

1) Seller
2) Filler
3) Filler
4) Filler
5) <Empty>

1) Seller
2) Filler
3) Filler
4) Filler
5) ANet sanctioned griefer in disguise

1) Seller
2) Filler
3) Filler
4) ANet sanctioned griefer in disguise
5) <Empty>

1) Seller
2) Filler
3) Filler
4) ANet sanctioned griefer in disguise
5) Another griefer in disguise

1) ANet sanctioned griefer in disguise
2) Another griefer
3) <Empty>
4) <Empty>
5) <Empty>

1) ANet sanctioned griefer in disguise
2) Another griefer
3) Griefer’s friend
4) Heitred
5) Griefer’s friend

It takes some more time but you need to start selling with 3 fillers in your party. Should look like this:
1. You
2. Filler
3. Filler
4. Filler
5. ____

You fill spot 5 and make them pay on join. This way they are invested in your success and have no reason to kick you. You repeat the process for each member joining:
1. You
2. Filler
3. Filler
4. Paid Member
5. _

Again you fill 5 and make them pay up front. This way everyone who joins has a stake in the success of the dungeon. Even if they do kick you for some reason, they will have already paid.

That said, the Guild idea is a good move for folks in non-dungeon Guilds or without a lot of willing friends on their list.

EU/NA? Does it even matter as long as you only “fill” and not going to enter dungeon?

dlonie.6547:

Nerevaarr.2840:

And how can they join and kick, if the rest of the slots are filled with your people? They cant, thats the purpose of this. I think you did not understand the concept.

A harrowing tale, presented in snapshots of party membership:

1) Seller
2) Filler
3) Filler
4) Filler
5) <Empty>

1) Seller
2) Filler
3) Filler
4) Filler
5) ANet sanctioned griefer in disguise

1) Seller
2) Filler
3) Filler
4) ANet sanctioned griefer in disguise
5) <Empty>

1) Seller
2) Filler
3) Filler
4) ANet sanctioned griefer in disguise
5) Another griefer in disguise

1) ANet sanctioned griefer in disguise
2) Another griefer
3) <Empty>
4) <Empty>
5) <Empty>

1) ANet sanctioned griefer in disguise
2) Another griefer
3) Griefer’s friend
4) Heitred
5) Griefer’s friend

hehe, I take it for granted that most of the griefers didn`t realise this “method”, just because they are d**b.

Well, this method would be worth for Arah only. If They pay you, lets say 16g, but sell 4 slots for 32g. —> 16G profit with one stealing.

But they will get reported for doing this systematic. And that´s the point where opionios are divided.
Some hope that they would banned if they did that often.
Others say there won`t be any punishment at all.
I hope there will, lets say if they do it at least 3x a day.

Saint.5647:

You fill spot 5 and make them pay on join. This way they are invested in your success and have no reason to kick you. You repeat the process for each member joining:
1. You
2. Filler
3. Filler
4. Paid Member
5. _

Yes, that is what I meant. They pay on join, no other option. Fillers dont leave until the buyer has paid.

Nerevaarr.2840:

Saint.5647:

You fill spot 5 and make them pay on join. This way they are invested in your success and have no reason to kick you. You repeat the process for each member joining:
1. You
2. Filler
3. Filler
4. Paid Member
5. _

Yes, that is what I meant. They pay on join, no other option. Fillers dont leave until the buyer has paid.

What’s to prevent the 2nd buyer from being in bed with the 1st and highjacking your instance for the price of merely a single slot and sell it or complete it themselves?
What you’ve failed to realised to this point is that not only can a seller be griefed more easily now, there’s actually a profit in it for those that would dare do it. I shudder to think how bad it will be once the general populace realises this.

Sell at your own risk, you have been warned.

Veckna.9621:

Nerevaarr.2840:

Saint.5647:

You fill spot 5 and make them pay on join. This way they are invested in your success and have no reason to kick you. You repeat the process for each member joining:
1. You
2. Filler
3. Filler
4. Paid Member
5. _

Yes, that is what I meant. They pay on join, no other option. Fillers dont leave until the buyer has paid.

What’s to prevent the 2nd buyer from being in bed with the 1st and highjacking your instance for the price of merely a single slot and sell it or complete it themselves?
What you’ve failed to realised to this point is that not only can a seller be griefed more easily now, there’s actually a profit in it for those that would dare do it. I shudder to think how bad it will be once the general populace realises this.

Sell at your own risk, you have been warned.

Than i will have 2 people who have payed instead of having NOTHING. I havent “failed” to realize anything.
My suggestion is merely an adaptation to a bad situation. Nothing more. I did not claim that I have found a perfect solution.

No you will have recieved the gold from 1 player and then get griefed. They will make a profit even if they just give the instance away to friends and split the cost the original griefer paid. The only possible way to sell is to use a proxy party and get the gold from all 4 buyers before inviting them into the instanced party.

How about using another account or person as a proxy group, and then having all 4 buyers pay before sending any to instance? You could set up a stream of the run so the buyers can confirm its real.

Edit* too slow

Sell at your own risk, you have been warned.

Sad, but true.

2-3h ago I witnessed that scenario while I had my lfg tool open.
Two Elementalists merged another elem(seller), 5sec there are only 2 Elem left in the party. Luckily I became suspicious when I saw the 2 Elem merging, so I wrote their names down.
Shortly after the Soloer was kicked, the lfg message says: “LEGIT DUO RUN” in caps!

I reported both of them, even though it wasn`t my run that got stolen. But I prayed that these 2 Elem would merge mine too in order to kick me.
Then they would`ve done that kitten twice in just 10 min?
Unfortunately, my party filled too fast.

Nerevaarr.2840:

Veckna.9621:

Nerevaarr.2840:

Saint.5647:

You fill spot 5 and make them pay on join. This way they are invested in your success and have no reason to kick you. You repeat the process for each member joining:
1. You
2. Filler
3. Filler
4. Paid Member
5. _

Yes, that is what I meant. They pay on join, no other option. Fillers dont leave until the buyer has paid.

What’s to prevent the 2nd buyer from being in bed with the 1st and highjacking your instance for the price of merely a single slot and sell it or complete it themselves?
What you’ve failed to realised to this point is that not only can a seller be griefed more easily now, there’s actually a profit in it for those that would dare do it. I shudder to think how bad it will be once the general populace realises this.

Sell at your own risk, you have been warned.

Than i will have 2 people who have payed instead of having NOTHING. I havent “failed” to realize anything.

The 2nd buyer does not have to pay as there is no way for you lock him out of joining your group via LFG, so in fact only the 1st buyer would need to pay in order to make one of your placeholders leave the group and both buyers being in a position where they could highjack your instance. And I’m quite sure the odds of 3 people reacting quickly and well enough to 2 people’s pre-meditated kick attempts are quite slim unless you know from the beginning that they’re working together.

There is no future for dungeon selling, how hard is it to accept it?

Veckna.9621:

There is no future for dungeon selling, how hard is it to accept it?

I understand your pesimism, but I will keep on doing that, and I will either join or make such a guild myself and adapt to the situation. Im sure ill find others who havent given up aswell. This thread was more of a search for such people.
It wasnt meant to be a discussion about current situation.

Nerevaarr.2840:

robertul.3679:

It’s pointless since that’s what your friend list currently does.
Also they can still join and kick so selling is dead basically..yea..

I dont want to bother my friends every time i want to sell a path.
And how can they join and kick, if the rest of the slots are filled with your people? They cant, thats the purpose of this. I think you did not understand the concept.

Why do people exagerate the “bother” part I can’t understand. They basically just stay in a party doing nothing. Especially if you have people who also sell in your friend list it’s a mutual service really. No reason to start a guild for that but to each his own.
As for the griefing part. Fun story! A friend tried to sell arah p3 today. Got 3 fillers and everything. Guy joins, guy pays, guy’s friend joins and together they kick everybody! They didn’t post lfg however so I assume they just gave it away! My friend whispers him with kind words and the guy says he is sorry, gives him back gold(more than he paid but less than the profit he would have made) and then adds him as friend! Even asks him to do an arah run together! Crazy world.

The placeholder process doesn’t work anymore. We tried this the other night and when the first placeholder dropped so that the second pug could join via LFG, the second pug immediately kick voted with the first pug. Sure, they lost the first pug’s gold, but could then sell for at least twice what they lost. And honestly, I don’t think some of these people care about lost gold, they just like being able to grief.

That being said, a proxy party DID work for us last night, so while it will be rough on soloers, a duo party should still be able to sell? It will definitely take longer though and requires a lot more trust on the part of the buyer.

I still think that the devs should just put a flag on the dungeon bosses and players – if 1+ boss in dungeon are dead but no player in group has a flag that they were involved in the kill then RESET the dungeon.

I love that we included Dr. Heit in that analysis haha nice XD

robertul.3679:

Fun story! A friend tried to sell arah p3 today. Got 3 fillers and everything. Guy joins, guy pays, guy’s friend joins and together they kick everybody! They didn’t post lfg however so I assume they just gave it away! My friend whispers him with kind words and the guy says he is sorry, gives him back gold(more than he paid but less than the profit he would have made) and then adds him as friend! Even asks him to do an arah run together! Crazy world.

This game is so kittened up.

After some feedback it seems that they are actually going so far as to atually “hunt” for sellers. Seems like even fillers wont help that…
Thats really sad…

Checking back in on this thread.
Here is our method:
1. Guild buddy posts lfg advertising sellers path
2. Gold is sent to guild buddy and names are referred to the seller via guild chat
3. The seller adds buyers to party as they are referred over guild chat
4. Complete dungeon run
5. Gold is sent to seller after path ends
6. Buyer can be added to guild under a specific rank if they want to buy paths often
Optional: send the guild buddy some gold for helping.

This way names can be referenced in guild chat and/or by person advertising and risk of losing your path is minimized.

Or just don’t buy the fear being spread and sell with 3 fillers, i made premium today since there was no competition.

It was far riskier to sell in the days of mergers, especially since this patch is so young that there aren’t many trolls active. You could entirely defeat a whole takeover by just raising the price, but nahhh.

Anyone serious about selling daily should do something like I did forever ago: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/85126-death-and-taxes-dnt-arah-running-service-na/

Guru may not be that active anymore, but you may be able to get some traction with a reddit post and perhaps some advertising in the appropriate spots on this forum. Just get a couple buddies together with a common cause, and put together a google doc organised with buyers for x paths.

It may be overly formal for some people, but it really is the best way to get a list of trusted buyers that you can work with.

raethe.1903:

The placeholder process doesn’t work anymore. We tried this the other night and when the first placeholder dropped so that the second pug could join via LFG, the second pug immediately kick voted with the first pug. Sure, they lost the first pug’s gold, but could then sell for at least twice what they lost. And honestly, I don’t think some of these people care about lost gold, they just like being able to grief.

That being said, a proxy party DID work for us last night, so while it will be rough on soloers, a duo party should still be able to sell? It will definitely take longer though and requires a lot more trust on the part of the buyer.

I still think that the devs should just put a flag on the dungeon bosses and players – if 1+ boss in dungeon are dead but no player in group has a flag that they were involved in the kill then RESET the dungeon.

proxy definitely works, as 2 players tried to join my friends post just to find out they cant boot instance maker. so they both left.

best to just duo or trio rather than solo it.

Filling slots one by one doesn’t work:

1. Two griefers pay your proxy.
2. You invite and they enter your party.
3. They kick you and other buyers that happen to be there.
4. They sell the 3 slots remaining.
5. Griefers’ costs: the price of 2 dungeon runs.
6. Griefers’ income: the price of 3 dungeon runs.
7. Griefers’ profit: the price of 1 dungeon run.
8. Your profit when griefed: the price of 2 dungeon runs. (You have to refund the non-griefer buyers.)
9. Your profit with no griefing: the price of 4 dungeon runs.

It’s important to note that…

Before patch: griefers get zero profit, and indeed, lose the price of 2 dungeon runs (instance is destroyed when they grief).

Solution: Ask for a deposit from each buyer equal to the price of the dungeon.

• If you’re griefed by two players, then after refunding any other buyers, you still have made — from the griefers — the price of 4 dungeon runs. (You do lose your dungeon rewards.)
• Griefers can’t sell the dungeon (for the same price) for a profit since they paid for a total of 4 dungeon runs and can only sell 3 slots.

I don’t buy or sell anymore but it seems to me the only way to do this 100% safely would be to charge members a fee/deposit upon joining(cost whatever the most expensive path sells for) as insurance against griefing. That way if a griefer joins their fee will go to whoever they grief and they are kicked/blacklisted. Members in good standing can leave at any time and get back their deposit fully (or minus some % to cover influence to startup guild stuffs.) You could work off your % fee with some number of times offering to be a filler.

Using a proxy would at least leave you with 50% of the profit, which still is profit.
But asking first two buyers to pay the full price for all 4 slots wont work. People will not trust, since there is no way they can be sure that there actually is a path to be sold.
Proxy will also increase the time you need to fill the group dramatically.

But again – Dungeon Sellers guild can come in handy. If the seller is representing the guild, buyers knows that this guy is not trying to scam them, but indeed sell them the path.

Nerevaarr.2840:

Using a proxy would at least leave you with 50% of the profit, which still is profit.
But asking first two buyers to pay the full price for all 4 slots wont work. People will not trust, since there is no way they can be sure that there actually is a path to be sold.
Proxy will also increase the time you need to fill the group dramatically.

But again – Dungeon Sellers guild can come in handy. If the seller is representing the guild, buyers knows that this guy is not trying to scam them, but indeed sell them the path.

First two buyers doesn’t work — griefers can be the next two buyers. You have to ask every buyer for a deposit.

As for buyers being cheated: there hasn’t been much (if any) history of dungeon sellers cheating buyers.

In the end, setting up a shared list of honest buyers is a really good idea. Meanwhile, proxy and deposit puts you as safe from griefing as possible.

If this dungeon selling guild picks up, I’m definitely joining. Been meaning to find a community like that!

I dont usually buy but i will def support those that are skilled enough to solo/duo whatever when I have the money to spare.

Deathslaughter.2659 kicked me out of CM p3 while i was selling it… i was whipsering him.. .. and he starts flaming… he also said: ty for your dungeon and your rewards ect….
im not sure who his friend is that was helping him..

so now what do i do? ofc i reported him.. but i dont think this will help much..

Today i got kicked 3 times out of cm.. and 1 time out of arah… its almost imposible to see who the bad guys are -_- so its almost imposible to get them reported

srry for my bad english

Sharing names is against the forum rules, edit it before mods do so.

I love this. Now if i managed to make my game work again, i’d do some things.

FenixKillah.8425:

Deathslaughter.2659 kicked me out of CM p3 while i was selling it… i was whipsering him.. .. and he starts flaming… he also said: ty for your dungeon and your rewards ect….
im not sure who his friend is that was helping him..

so now what do i do? ofc i reported him.. but i dont think this will help much..

Today i got kicked 3 times out of cm.. and 1 time out of arah… its almost imposible to see who the bad guys are -_- so its almost imposible to get them reported

srry for my bad english

proxy + deposit = basic level of protection that Anet should be providing but isn’t.

Doing a quick check-back on this thread.
was away for a day or two in game.

looks like Solo Academy [SA] will start to be the guild for NA guild sellers if anyone has interest.

also i got a few emails from 1-2 EU guilds as well.

PM me if you want to join either, I will be sure to refer you over to them.

so far it seems my idea for keeping dungeon selling safe has proven helpful