Guild Wars 2

Hi All,

I’m pretty certain teams compromising of a pugs with a few friends in a co-ordinated manner using sub-standard potions/food/weapons should not be setting good times like this as part of a relaxed daily dungeon tour.

Just had a look at the dungeon record runs – and it seems there are no ‘valid’ CM unrestricted records for P3 (5 man teams).

Team:
Ferroignis [Rag] (Ele)
Reves DeFeu [MYTH] (Ele)
Vinc Warrior [VSG] (War)
Artemis Utem [MYTH] (Guard) http://www.twitch.tv/anewhomegw2/v/4996717
(Start: 09.15 : End: 14.10 = 4 min 55s)
A New Home [MYTH] (Thief) http://www.twitch.tv/artemisthuras/b/658807885
(Start: 14.07: End- 19.02 = 4 min 55s)
OR on YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEUIQEP45YI (This is the tour)

If you really want to start a video at a start time -

Here from the full-tour video of the stream which we uploaded to youtube:
https://youtu.be/KEUIQEP45YI?t=14m7s
The ‘version’ number from the full-tour video:
https://youtu.be/KEUIQEP45YI?t=1h
The go-to functionality on youtube could not be simplier ;-)
[Version number of game build in A New Home stream – 1 hr into the tour]

Compressed short video is here: https://youtu.be/fAj7C_PstMM (The run is about 4m 38s – this is after we’ve waited for everyone to reset)

Who knows?

Thanks for viewing.

Don’t really understand what you’re getting at since nobody bothers following record run tactics in daily runs because they take far more coordination and brain cells along with the risk of wiping continuously.

The idea of unrestricted records is to break the agreed record running rules (such as using terrain skips/ special consumables) to achieve better times.

doddbox.8153:

Don’t really understand what you’re getting at since nobody bothers following record run tactics in daily runs because they take far more coordination and brain cells along with the risk of wiping continuously.

The idea of unrestricted records is to break the agreed record running rules (such as using terrain skips/ special consumables) to achieve better times.

This is considered “record run tactics”?
This how our daily tours go. We even had a pug who’s never ran with us before in that particular run.

Risk of wipes? What risk of wipes? No higher than any pug I’ve seen. Lower if anything.
Something like might stacking or blasting smoke fields for stealth is considered high coordination/high brain function now? (except I’ve also been in pugs which do this..)
Or maybe “drop wall on this boss, then hallowed ground” is this considered hard to do now?
So unrestricted records == must use exploits? That seems dumb.

I’m pretty confused by your post to be honest.

If anyone is going to post their fast-ish casual dungeon runs for unrestricted records, it’s gonna be a mess. The point of unrestricted rule set is to allow creativity to make the run as fast as possible. It needs to be interesting and innovative. For example, tactics like splitting, NPC porting, or double portal, etc. Unless your run is really unique, it’s easy to expect your own record to be beaten by other groups within a couple of days. Surely you can submit your own ‘record’ to fill the empty spot but at least please make it a good competition.

Who cares if the record will be beaten in a couple of days? They recorded, uploaded, and posted it here for review. It is not your place to judge whether he should have posted it. You don’t have to make it interesting or innovative to claim a record.

There are a lot of paths no one has bothered to do a record for in the current meta. I’ve always noticed that a path will stay undone until someone kicks off the competition and people respond. I see nothing wrong with that. A leaderboard with a lot of easy to beat records looks a lot better than one with empty spots.

But are these submitted to be restricted or unrestricted?

I was responding to his reactions about “unrestricted records == must use exploits”.

Edit: To OP, the current record setter is [SC] with 2 minute 37 second.

Nike – I have no idea what the rules are for restricted or unrestricted.

It would take an expert to know the rules or really where to find them (I’m not an expert in understanding the rules either).

All I remember is if you have mini pets with you (which I love) – its always an unrestricted run unless something changed ?

TPMN.1483:

Nike – I have no idea what the rules are for restricted or unrestricted.

It would take an expert to know the rules or really where to find them (I’m not an expert in understanding the rules either).

All I remember is if you have mini pets with you (which I love) – its always an unrestricted run unless something changed ?

Here it is: http://gw2dungeons.net/Rules

Don’t think we broke any restricted rules or unrestricted rules.

I didn’t see anything about mini-pets either in any set.

TPMN.1483:

Don’t think we broke any restricted rules or unrestricted rules.

I didn’t see anything about mini-pets either in any set.

Mini-pets are allowed now, rule changed before the ranger rune change too

unless I’m misremembering something you can bring your little buddies.

This “issue” of casual runs being records is caused by two things: small playerbase and aggressive record resetting.

Playerbase can’t be really changed but we can alter the record resetting procedure. For example adding lots of extra time to “non-valid” records instead of invalidating them.

From what I can tell the last record was 11-26-2014 for this path.
I am pretty certain a stability nerf and skill changes happened between then and now.

I think if there is discussion on how existing records become invalid that should be somewhere else. To be honest I expect this to be beaten and should be. I know records in gw1 were frequently redone on each patch / major change.

Well we did our last CM p3 in 15 Nov 2014. It was mainly reset because of the might nerf, because we don’t use stability at all if you watch it closely: https://youtu.be/7coyLAP1e-4

Also if we would redo it it would be maybe max 5s slower for the fights in general.

Jeremlloyd.6837:

Well we did our last CM p3 in 15 Nov 2014. It was mainly reset because of the might nerf, because we don’t use stability at all if you watch it closely: https://youtu.be/7coyLAP1e-4

Also if we would redo it it would be maybe max 5s slower for the fights in general.

Then take your guild and set a current meta run.

Lol, I’m certain that [SC] will beat their own record in CM. It’s not the first time they have to redo them.

Iris Ng.9845:

Lol, I’m certain that [SC] will beat their own record in CM. It’s not the first time they have to redo them.

Again, then they need to go do it. Please post a small guild team’s record to make them have to do it to get their name back on the board.

I’m curious. Is this small guild team serious about setting (and fighting for) this record or they just conveniently post their casual run to fill in the empty spot? Because you know, they have an option to submit their record directly on the website if they don’t want to see unfavorable comments.

Iris Ng.9845:

they have an option to submit their record directly on the website if they don’t want to see unfavorable comments.

Doubt he knew if he didn’t even bother to read the rules before posting…

Iris Ng.9845:

I’m curious. Is this small guild team serious about setting (and fighting for) this record or they just conveniently post their casual run to fill in the empty spot? Because you know, they have an option to submit their record directly on the website if they don’t want to see unfavorable comments.

Clearly, we are fighting, fighting for the record right now, on official forums. There is an obligation to validate submitted records. We are doing this to create a challange and start the contest for the best time for the meta. If you have such a problem with this then it is clearly a corrupt system… We understand that the record we have set is not great, its not amazing, beat it, we won’t be complaining. It doesn’t matter if the record will be up for 20 days, 20 hours, or 20 minutes. We just want to see a non-well known guild up there.

It boils down to this, we want to see people try, we have no competition, and because our time is sub-perfect we are being attacked? Because we get times this good daily we get attacked? Just validate the record, and let it get beaten.

We want to see new tactics, new meta moves, so do it, beat our daily run.

There is no current CM p3 Restricted.
If this follows all the rules of the Restricted ruleset, then it should be put in as the current Restricted record until someone else beats it.
If they broke any Restricted rules, then it’ll probably still meet the Unrestricted requirements and would take the record there.

Iris Ng.9845:

I’m curious. Is this small guild team serious about setting (and fighting for) this record or they just conveniently post their casual run to fill in the empty spot? Because you know, they have an option to submit their record directly on the website if they don’t want to see unfavorable comments.

Why should it matter if they’re “serious” about setting and fighting for this record? There’s no current record which means this would be the current record. All of the paths that don’t have a record posted could feasibly be filled in with whoever wants to post it.
Just because most of the guilds that are actually doing records only post what they feel are solid runs that will be challenging to beat doesn’t mean that teams who just want to post up times because they beat the current record of nothing aren’t allowed to do so. If anything this would get the competitive guys to then go and beat it to regain it.

If this is not approved solely on the basis that we’re not sure if they’re serious about setting and defending it, the only message we’re sending to the rest of the gw2 community is that the speed clear and record community is only going to accept things from specific guilds or players because they’re known for it.
If it’s not approved because something in the ruleset was broken then so be it. At least there’s a previously posted reason why it would be denied and would make sense.

It’s an issue because if you are just uploading your casual runs as records to fill empty spots after a reset everyone might as well just record their first dungeon tour after a reset and “force” the VOLUNTEER group of people to recognize them.

Can you imagine the floodgates that would open?

Every reset the first team to do their tour uploads it. The next better team does the same, and so on and so on. You end up with a giant workload for again, these VOLUNTEER people to sift through, watching hours and hours of runs because people aren’t taking this seriously anymore, they’re just trying to get their names on the list.

It should be about posting something that the players are proud of and think will be a challenge to beat. Not about posting something to fill a spot and say “well no one else tried so we win!, beat it because we know you can, lols”

It’s not against the rules, it’s just opens up an abuse of these VOLUNTEER people who try to create a system that people can enjoy.

EDIT: I have nothing against the OP or his group, I just think people need to realize the implications of such a shift in how things are done. If I were one of the people to record these, I’d be saying “kitten it” and just stop caring about any of them.

Jerus.4350:

It’s an issue because if you are just uploading your casual runs as records to fill empty spots after a reset everyone might as well just record their first dungeon tour after a reset and “force” the VOLUNTEER group of people to recognize them.

Can you imagine the floodgates that would open?

Every reset the first team to do their tour uploads it. The next better team does the same, and so on and so on. You end up with a giant workload for again, these VOLUNTEER people to sift through, watching hours and hours of runs because people aren’t taking this seriously anymore, they’re just trying to get their names on the list.

It should be about posting something that the players are proud of and think will be a challenge to beat. Not about posting something to fill a spot and say “well no one else tried so we win!, beat it because we know you can, lols”

It’s not against the rules, it’s just opens up an abuse of these VOLUNTEER people who try to create a system that people can enjoy.

And while I agree that it does end up abusing the volunteers who are taking their own time to go through these videos and review them,, unless a rule is put into place or at least a statement recommending that videos are submitted only if the user feels like it would be a challenging time to beat, there’s nothing currently stated on gw2dungeons.net to prevent it. At the moment, its just the community that has been posting that has been basically only been posting videos of what they feel is a good run. In the case like this where there is no current time, who is going to make the call that follows all the rules and still denies it because of their own judgement that it would be beatable by someone else.

On the flipside, denying this just because the approvers feel like it would be easy to beat means that the approvers may see a record video that a guild submitted and say to themselves, “I think people I know can beat this so I’m not going to bother looking at it when I know other people are working on this record as well and can beat it”. It leads to bias which so far the approvers have done a fairly good job of avoiding.

If we want to avoid this situation in the future, then something needs to be posted to prevent the behavior you’re describing. As it is now with the current rules, there’s no reason to deny it beyond people saying “oh that’s easily beatable”.

I agree, and I’ll default to the people in charge to address it (I know I’m a busybody, it’s not like me to do this)

But, I think doubling the time of a previous record after a few minor nerfs is beyond the point of bias, and more in the realm of just plain common sense. If they hit sub 3 mins that’d be one thing, but over double? it’s a different category.

Jerus.4350:

EDIT: I have nothing against the OP or his group, I just think people need to realize the implications of such a shift in how things are done. If I were one of the people to record these, I’d be saying “kitten it” and just stop caring about any of them.

Jerus.4350:

I agree, and I’ll default to the people in charge to address it (I know I’m a busybody, it’s not like me to do this)

But, I think doubling the time of a previous record after a few minor nerfs is beyond the point of bias, and more in the realm of just plain common sense. If they hit sub 3 mins that’d be one thing, but over double? it’s a different category.

I agree with all your statements. I’m just saying that if we’re going to set up special rules for denying posted attempts on the perception that we think the run would be easily beaten, then a note needs to be said to acknowledge that we have volunteer reviewers who are taking their time to review these things and to be considerate of them by posting runs that you feel are solid record runs.

I again agree, and while I know I said I’d leave it to them, I think simply stating a general % loss after changes would solve that. IE “we think about 20% loss in time would be the max possibility, such that if you can’t get within that margin your record will be ignored” would solve that.

While we are waiting for an approver to have an official saying in this matter, this is what I think when I see this record.

“Oh wow, someone challenges the CM record of the mighty [SC]. Might they be the new [qT]?”

“Oh wow, they used the same strategy as the previous record, but it took twice amount of time, lol. Are they even serious?”

People who do the records have spent upwards to 12 hours of practice with a truly interesting and new strategy but their records get reset after every minor updates. Then there are others who just casually copy the same strategy to put their names on the list just because they submit firstly after the reset. And you call that a competition?

Why don’t you think other big names like qT, iV or rT didn’t vie for this empty spot? Because they respect the old record. They may haven’t found the newer and better strategy to beat it with an appropriate time. Look at the old Arah p3 records. I called that a “serious fighting”. It kept getting broken over and over not because one has better rng than others (though that counts) but every tweaks on the skips, splits and team fights reflect how much they invested in getting a better time. And they made sure to perfect it so that their competitor could never copy it and pull the better time.That is, to me, the sportsmanship of the record scene and that is what makes it fresh and fun to watch. If you ask me, why doesn’t [SC] repeat their records? I may guess it’s time and priority. It takes time to get people to practice. It takes motivation, (like “wahoo, we found the next best tactics!”) to see that practice to the end. It sets the priority to their projects. If there is nothing new to do, they might come back to re-do their past records.

In the end, I’m not a part of the rule makers nor in charge of the approval procedure. I’m not the right person to discuss about the rule. Wethospu has voiced his opinion already (and rightfully got ignored, lol). I’m here just to make a comment and I wholeheartedly agree to what Jerus posted above me <3

To OP, good luck and hope to see you again.

To the OP , I don’t think casual runs/daily dungeon tour belong on the leaderboard. I was thinking something like if you want to submit a record it needs to be 1-2min close to the all time record but thats a thing to discuss at the next meeting.
Also we qT recorded a casual Cm P123 and uploaded it as a guide to our members not to fill a spot that can be very easily broken. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnvDS2G-o5E 10:06-13:36 ( 3:32 seconds).

Iris Ng.9845:

In the end, I’m not a part of the rule makers nor in charge of the approval procedure. I’m not the right person to discuss about the rule. Wethospu has voiced his opinion already (and rightfully got ignored, lol). I’m here just to make a comment and I wholeheartedly agree to what Jerus posted above me <3

To OP, good luck and hope to see you again.

I think we’re all pretty much in agreement with the sentiments expressed. I just think that it needs to actually be stated on gw2dungeons if we don’t want people to post random videos for paths that don’t have records yet and basically wasting an approver’s time if it is something that is obviously not going to stand for long once someone actually makes a any kind of record attempt at it.

Wethospu.6437:

This “issue” of casual runs being records is caused by two things: small playerbase and aggressive record resetting.

Playerbase can’t be really changed but we can alter the record resetting procedure. For example adding lots of extra time to “non-valid” records instead of invalidating them.

requoted.

I’m sorry it wasn’t less than 3 mins- but there are two categories of records ‘all time’ and ‘current’.

I see two sides to this :
1) people who are denying this to even be reviewed as its a mediocre run (but compared to any pug run out there it is kitten good).
2) people who are stating that it should be reviewed and are getting ignored.

It has been near 24 hours and people have the opportunity to have done another run since we posted in the rules required and easily beaten this time.

I remember when <5 mins was a good time for any path.

If videos are not going to be reviewed or rules changed and psuedo guessed times after changes to build. This to me is flatly corrupt .

I remember times being beaten and competition being healthy after new builds released.

ShadowRX.9024:

To the OP , I don’t think casual runs/daily dungeon tour belong on the leaderboard.

So go and post a more competitive time then if you don’t want casual runs on the leaderboard holy kitten it’s not difficult.

Element Two.7316:

ShadowRX.9024:

To the OP , I don’t think casual runs/daily dungeon tour belong on the leaderboard.

So go and post a more competitive time then if you don’t want casual runs on the leaderboard holy kitten it’s not difficult.

He already did, no? o_O

Element Two.7316:

ShadowRX.9024:

To the OP , I don’t think casual runs/daily dungeon tour belong on the leaderboard.

So go and post a more competitive time then if you don’t want casual runs on the leaderboard holy kitten it’s not difficult.

The reason why some are saying that it shouldn’t even be reviewed is because someone does need to go through all the views to make sure that it meets the Restricted ruleset. This does take time especially when these guys are volunteers to review them. It’s not just a matter of posting a better run. The staff on gw2dungeons.net needs to take time to review them and some are saying that if its obvious it wasn’t a record attempt but just a video posted because there isn’t a current meta video then we should be considerate of their time and not waste it.

I understand that but the current rules on gw2dungeons.net don’t have any statements about it. With the current rules, it is set up that any video posted that beats the current time is supposed to be reviewed.

1.) For a record to be valid, the time must be faster than the current record displayed and the record must be accompanied by a video for evidence/proof; one point of view is sufficient.

If there is no current record, then effectively any time posted will beat the current record of nothing.

If in the future, the speed clear community whom collectively came up with the rules wants to address runs such as these that weren’t originally intended for records but were submitted because there is no current record, then we can discuss modifications to the rules. Until that happens though, we should be following the listed rules.

It’s also up to people who are submitting videos to be aware that the volunteer reviewers are exactly that: volunteers. They are donating their time to review videos and we should be courteous to that fact.

Iris Ng.9845:

He already did, no? o_O

If he did then there’s no reason to complain :| Complaining about records on the leaderboard being too slow is pretty stupid.

I thought that we all agree the volunteers are corrupted because they haven’t reviewed this record.

Element Two.7316:

Iris Ng.9845:

He already did, no? o_O

If he did then there’s no reason to complain :| Complaining about records on the leaderboard being too slow is pretty stupid.

Agree, Deathly should apply for the records as well.

Element Two.7316:

ShadowRX.9024:

To the OP , I don’t think casual runs/daily dungeon tour belong on the leaderboard.

So go and post a more competitive time then if you don’t want casual runs on the leaderboard holy kitten it’s not difficult.

I guess you didn’t read what I wrote. This time is already beaten.

ShadowRX.9024:

Element Two.7316:

ShadowRX.9024:

To the OP , I don’t think casual runs/daily dungeon tour belong on the leaderboard.

So go and post a more competitive time then if you don’t want casual runs on the leaderboard holy kitten it’s not difficult.

I guess you can’t read what I wrote. This time is already beaten.

There is currently no records claimed for CM since the might/stability patch?

Some of the excuses given to OP for not even considering his submission plainly stink and make the sc community look like a kitten. It’s sad.

Iris Ng.9845:

ShadowRX.9024:

Element Two.7316:

ShadowRX.9024:

To the OP , I don’t think casual runs/daily dungeon tour belong on the leaderboard.

So go and post a more competitive time then if you don’t want casual runs on the leaderboard holy kitten it’s not difficult.

I guess you can’t read what I wrote. This time is already beaten.

There is currently no records claimed for CM since the might/stability patch?

I didn’t post it here as I think there should be a rule that you can only submit a record if it is very close to the current all time( 1-2 min). Also I don’t care at all about Valid time records due to the fact that it resets like every month lols. All time is way better.

But aren’t you supposed to get riled by the new competition? Like Nike said: “bad records will bring in more competition than an empty leaderboard.”

Anyways, this is a valid record so it should be approved.

But if this becomes a trend, it’s going to be 10g per submission (directly given to the approver).

Moss.5371:

Some of the excuses given to OP for not even considering his submission plainly stink and make the sc community look like a kitten. It’s sad.

Yep, the speed clear community is all about casual daily dungeon run. I’m feeling sad, too.

Iris Ng.9845:

But aren’t you supposed to get riled by the new competition? Like Nike said: “bad records will bring in more competition than an empty leaderboard.”

The leaderboard is not empty is it? What do you see first when you go to the gw2dungeons : All time records.

Wethospu.6437:

Anyways, this is a valid record so it should be approved.

But if this becomes a trend, it’s going to be 10g per submission (directly given to the approver).

Heh that honestly would cut down on the videos submitted that were originally intended to be records and it would compensate the reviewers for their time. Sounds like a Win-Win solution.

Sounds to me like people are offended because their 12+ hours of practicing ( lol, you kitten serious?) isn’t going to mean they get some eternal hall of fame place.

10g to post a record ey??
Well that means only glory hounding snobs will even bother..

All this just screams elitist exclusive club. For all I know a time beating the all time records has been ignored, simply because it wasn’t set by a preferred speedrunning group.

The corruption this thread has highlighted renders the records kept completely moot in my view.

Have fun rubbing each others egos though. ( 12+ hours.. rofl..)

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Sounds to me like people are offended because their 12+ hours of practicing ( lol, you kitten serious?) isn’t going to mean they get some eternal hall of fame place.

10g to post a record ey??
Well that means only glory hounding snobs will even bother..

All this just screams elitist exclusive club. For all I know a time beating the all time records has been ignored, simply because it wasn’t set by a preferred speedrunning group.

The corruption this thread has highlighted renders the records kept completely moot in my view.

Have fun rubbing each others egos though. ( 12+ hours.. rofl..)

It was a joke….

PS. The biggest issue i have with this is twitch vods. Twitch is god awful for playbacks and freezes and skips ahead every second. So i cant even properly watch them. x)

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Sounds to me like people are offended because their 12+ hours of practicing ( lol, you kitten serious?) isn’t going to mean they get some eternal hall of fame place.

10g to post a record ey??
Well that means only glory hounding snobs will even bother..

All this just screams elitist exclusive club. For all I know a time beating the all time records has been ignored, simply because it wasn’t set by a preferred speedrunning group.

The corruption this thread has highlighted renders the records kept completely moot in my view.

Have fun rubbing each others egos though. ( 12+ hours.. rofl..)

I don’t think any records have been posted have been ignored except for the 5 Ranger ones that were pretty much meant as a joke. It’d be pretty hard for a record to be missed when the dungeon/fractal guys actual pay attention to those record posts and when people see something hasn’t been approved or commented on in a while, it gets brought up again. The only way if a record is going to get missed is if the submission wasn’t put on here.

There has been some discussion on this thread about it and if you look at both sides of the argument, there is reasons on both sides that are both valid. As I said multiple times in this thread, if we follow the current listed rules, then this needs to be reviewed and approved/denied the same as any other record submission. If the community wants to modify the rules, then that needs to be discussed at the next meeting.

And while your comments concerning the corruption and such has some merit, your scoffing at what it takes to actually get some of these runs down to the times that have been achieved kind of shows that you never have actually attempted a record yourself. Your input concerning the corruption could have been much better received if it was actually put forward as something contributing to the discussion instead of just insults.

Sorry, but if you want a serious response then you should post a serious time. How do you want us to think that this daily run is record material if you even use a Guardian in this path?

This is not going to not get approved because you are not a known speedrun guild but because people have faster daily runs all the time. Deathly already posted one, I can give you one as well if you want.

If you want your stuff to get approved you should consider doing a run that is not (almost) twice as long as the all-time record