So what you’re saying is, casual gamers get to miss out on dungeons now?
They’ve stated repeatedly that the explorable dungeons were NOT made for casuals or pugs and are meant for organised skilled groups. They we’re NOT made with casuals, gear, xp or money in mind but with the challenge.
The story mode is for the casuals and if you find those too hard then… well… I’m afraid to say you or the group you’re in are below average gamers unless you have some bad luck with a bad pug. You might have to either practice some more, find a better group or it’s just not for you.
(edited by Fay.2735)
Actually difference in between WoW and GW2 is GW ain’t friggin WoW.
Dungeons at WoW never been easy without gear at launch, it’s farm only before ending content of current Additon.
GW2, “casuall” game that brings you “fun” and is nothing like wow just been made like riddiculously worse since as u mentioned
—-there’s no other end game content here, so why would you frustrate yourself with endgame which is not rewarding at all and is about grind ?
Hey all, it is my fault the updates to those 3 dungeon chains did not get into to the notes. There is a lot going on right now and as we establish our patch process sometimes things will slip through the cracks. I wanted to shed some light on the dungeon speed clear stuff as well. You should not see any diminished returns unless you.
1) Run the same exact chain over twice in a row
2) Complete multiple dungeons in 30 minutes or less each.We also reduced the rewards of completing story mode, once you have already completed it, because the rewards for story mode were never intended to be a high as they were.
At this time, dungeons should one of the most efficient ways to level and get gold, and it is not our intention to make them feel like a grind. This is a very large game, and we have a lot of people playing it in many different ways. Right now we are working hard to make sure there are not any ways for players to circumvent the normal rewards in the game and then we will be able to look at the actual rewards and make sure they require a reasonable amount of investment.
Dungeons are meant to be difficult and we will continue to update them to try and reach a point where the time invested to XP/Gold/Tokens is similar for each dungeon. Some right now are just too easy to complete while others may be too hard. Moving forward we will try and post more clear change notes for those dungeons we do fix.
Thanks for your feedback, we really appreciate your desire to help us keep improving on the game.
Jon
You sir are full of it. The xp is crap even if you haven’t completed the dungeon in hours. I just completed CM for the first time in four hours and I recveived 16k xp and 4 silver for my troubles. Complete waste of time to even do dungeons as you get better rewards doing events. Well I won’t be (and many of my guild mates also) won’t be doing your dungeons anymore due to the total lack of rewards for doing them. Not worth the time, frustration, and money required to do them.
EDIT: Also would like to point out I was running on my 61 mesmer from before was getting 50-60 k xp per completion…now only getting crap rewards. Total waste of time to run them. Not to mention the money rewards are totally worthless…don’t even cover repair costs.
This whole “WOW GAMERS SUX CASUAL NOOBS” thing really needs to die. WoW (and Rift) dungeons may be easy, but they’re also a lot more tuned than current PvE content. Akylios, Yogg-Saron, Laethys, Arthas and so on were difficult fights, but they rewarded you for the effort you put in. GW2? Mash one button. 3/4 of the bosses are basically “hit autoattack after cooldowns”
Hell, WoW and Rift badges and points may have been a grind, but the bosses and dungeons at least had their own unique loot and rewards. GW2 dungeons just give generic magic gear. Maybe there would be more incentive if bosses dropped a unique weapon or armor skin.
Take the Duchess of Spiders in TA explorable mode. Maybe she drops a shield with generic stats (rare or exotic), but with a one-of-a-kind spider-themed mesh. Or the Forgotten path in Arah rewards players with a snake-themed staff. They could have made dungeons so much more interesting with this change, if only to give the bosses a bit of flavor rather than snoozefests with generic trash loot.
“I believe the game can afford to have a single feature made for the more dedicated gamers.”
Elethor, ofc game can. But if this is a bridge between getting to more content like orr and other dungs, game pretty much CAN NOT, since it’s blocking players.
Why don’t we call it like it is? ANet makes a profit from selling gems, which they also allow to be purchased with gold. Anything that greatly increases the influx of gold into the economy, similarly reduces their chance for profit. It’s obvious where their priority was, when they not only made dungeons harder, but implemented diminishing returns on silver rewards. We saw no change in the turn-in items. Instead of dressing it up as “game balancing” why not just call it like it is? It’s shoring up a leak in potential profit.
The story mode is for the casuals and if you find those too hard then… well… I’m afraid to say you or the group you’re in are below average gamers/casuals unless you have some bad luck with a bad pug. You might have to either practice some more, find a better group or it’s just not for you.
assumptions assumptions…
I also don’t know if we’re talking about the same game, but story mode is neither of the difficulty nor reward scale of casuals. so I guess you’re talking out of the first 3 letters from your assumptions.
i don’t know about you guys but this path has killed the game for me nothing left now :/
I don’t mind the change, but with this change I feel the Token system needs a rework. Since it is now encouraged to run different dungeons instead of repeating the same one over and over again, we need the Tokens to reflect this mindset. Making the tokens a universal currency (instead of making them unique to each dungeon) would make it so that we feel like we can still work towards our long term goals (specific sets / legendaries).
Honestly I think that we should have had universal tokens from the start… with the sheer number of runs required to get dungeon sets / gifts, asking players to run the SAME dungeon over and over again is a bit cruel. Variety is the spice of life, and there are a bunch of dungeons in GW2! This will also make it easier for groups of friends targeting different sets to play together.
They’ve stated repeatedly that the explorable dungeons were NOT made for casuals or pugs and are meant for organised skilled groups. They we’re NOT made with casuals, gear, xp or money in mind but with the challenge.
The story mode is for the casuals and if you find those too hard then… well… I’m afraid to say you or the group you’re in are below average gamers/casuals unless you have some bad luck with a bad pug. You might have to either practice some more, find a better group or it’s just not for you.
ANet also stated dungeon story and exploration modes WERE the best way to make in game currency and exp. So I still fail to see how they were designed for only the hardcore. I personally have no trouble with story mode dungeons, and so far I’ve had little trouble with explorable – however I have yet to go to CoF, so we’ll see how long that lasts.
I really wish players would make up their minds.
You whine when the game is too easy.
Then you whine when the game is too hard.
You whine because there’s nothing to do at 80.
And then you whine about grinding dungeons for badges for gear.
You whine that the game is too much like WoW.
And then you whine that the game doesn’t have a dungeon tool, dps meter, and inspect like WoW.
There’s just so much going back and forth. I honestly hope that ArenaNet just sticks with whatever their philosophy of what makes a game fun because if they try to incorporate everything players whine about wanting, other players will then whine that those things are in the game!
Good for you, I was talking to the other 99% who doesn’t play that way.
Well then obviously there is a pretty big problem when you have the same complaints from both the casual and hardcore players.
i don’t know about you guys but this path has killed the game for me nothing left now :/
care to explain why?
Also,
Conspiracies, Conspiracies everywhere….
/equips tinfoil hat
Either a universal token or lower the cost of the gear significantly. 50+ times in one dungeon is way too much imo. If it was 50+ times across all 8 dungeons that would be great and it would still require a good amount of time and commitment to achieve a set of your choosing.
Personally I would much rather have a universal token and leave the time requirements/costs as they are.
I really love this game and my only real issue with it is the this one.
Why don’t we call it like it is? ANet makes a profit from selling gems, which they also allow to be purchased with gold. Anything that greatly increases the influx of gold into the economy, similarly reduces their chance for profit. It’s obvious where their priority was, when they not only made dungeons harder, but implemented diminishing returns on silver rewards. We saw no change in the turn-in items. Instead of dressing it up as “game balancing” why not just call it like it is? It’s shoring up a leak in potential profit.
Ok why did they nerf the xp though?! I was enjoying running AC over and over on story mode and Ex, and was looking forward to CM very much. Im confused about these nerfs. Do I only get say 15k xp as opposed to 1k for my 37 level once now every day? Or never again or what?
Yep, Dungeons are abolsutely useless now. Absolutely useless. If the devs don’t see that then I’m sorry you need to sort yourselves out.
I got my dungeon set, the CoF set with the Arah headgear (light). I do not want any other sets or pieces. My armor and stats are perfect for me. I got 2 armor sets 2 sets of jewels staffs daggers axes warhorns from dungeons etc. 100% map completion, personal story done.
Now what do I have left ? huh ? Only pvp. That’s all. The legendary staff looks HORRIBLE for what it is. It’s a white stick with some rainbow glow on it. Takes 6 months+ for a casual gamer to get it. And I am a necromancer, I do not even think about getting that weapon with that skin.
Usually end-game is about PvP and dungeons for me. Well what do dungeons give you now ? 100% absolutely —-nothing-—. No money since I can die a lot+ diminishing returns, chests give NOTHING. 3 blues. I’ve done about 150 runs in different dungeons, that’s about 400+ chests. I’ve got 1 exotic gloves and 4 golds. Which are useless, again.
Dungeons NEED an actual REWARD for finishing it. TOKENS ARE NOT ENOUGH. Especially if I have the armor set.
Where’s the thrill of the loot ??? Why isn’t there a big chest at the end of an explorable path or whatever ? Get a exotic weapon, like you get from the mystic forge ? some mini pets or rare dyes ? No, nothing.
Give actual rewards for dungeons. What people do right now is buy 76 exotic weapons and sit next to the mystic forge 9 hours a day gambling, well it cant be called gambling when you 90% of the time make a profit. Guy in my guild got The Lover and The Hunter, 50g each. I tried it as well, made 4g each try. Meaning I made about 1g profit for every attempt.
That’s what your games come down to. People just sitting in LA doing nothing and making money. Rather then actually playing the game and doing dungeons for rare loots. Nah your rare loot comes from 2g + mystic shard into the forge.
Please wake up.
I really wish players would make up their minds.
You whine when the game is too easy.
Then you whine when the game is too hard.You whine because there’s nothing to do at 80.
And then you whine about grinding dungeons for badges for gear.You whine that the game is too much like WoW.
And then you whine that the game doesn’t have a dungeon tool, dps meter, and inspect like WoW.There’s just so much going back and forth. I honestly hope that ArenaNet just sticks with whatever their philosophy of what makes a game fun because if they try to incorporate everything players whine about wanting, other players will then whine that those things are in the game!
You know its different people asking for different things right?
Anyway in the end, people will accept whatever style of play if they feel their time is justified, and they don’t right now.
Best change yet. Thank you for this.
Grinding dungeons isn’t fun for most of us and seeing people walk away with full dungeon sets with little actual effort – or even worse, being turned down from groups because I didnt want to speed run the dungeon over and over – was a little disheartening.
As a more casual player who still has an interest in the dungeon challenges, I applaud this change. Talking to my guild in chat this morning – they universally agree.
Yeah. 30+ hours and around 100 runs to get a full set. If that is little effort to you I wonder what you consider a big effort? A medium effort?
Also, sets are optional!!! OPTIONAL!! If you dont want to grind dungeons here are some advice for you:
- Run each one of them a few times to get exp, gold and a couple of token items.
- Run them until you get borred.
- Do something else you enjoy. sPvP, WvW, crafting. exploration… you name it.
- If you dont enjoy anything of the above, them my beloved mmo hopper its time to jump to your next game.Bottom line. No need to grind for cosmetic items! You can play without them and be as competitive! believe it or not some people like to try hard in order to achieve something and since that something is cosmetic its fine by me.
The same people complaining that the dungeons are a grind now will complain that they got all sets in one week and have nothing else to do if Anet makes them easy.
“Yeah you casual kittens, learn your place. Nice things are not for you. Stand aside and watch grown-ups play.”
Seriously, where does this come from?
MMOs from 10 years ago?
You can’t feel the special snowflake you are if you don’t have pauldrons the size of a lamp to prove it?
What’s wrong with casuals to get nice items, especially in a game that’s not supposed to be overly gear oriented? Not grindy? You know, for casuals too?
If they made all of the dungeons like CoF or CM, then people would be spending A LOT of time farming for the GEAR THAT THEY WANT. What’s so wrong with that? Now it’s so much of a chore people would rather get exotics that have the same stats and different looks making the whole dungeon running pointless.
Well I certainly understand making the dungeons that are too easy harder or making all paths and dungeons the same in difficulties.
But why would you try and screw up parties who complete them within 30 minutes or run a dungeon twice in a row?
Really stupid approach
Fay, Elesthor, having fun with your already farmed CoF gear? yes? Cool. It was supposed to be casuall game, as i said before, 200 hours of grinding 1 set atm ain’t casuall, unless ur playing 20h a day.
I didn’t farm for the gear at all, Not the type of armour I like not to mention that everyone has it already so hardly a statement of an achievement.
I’ve only done path 2 once, I’m going for the fun of it and the achievement at the end. The company of good friends and the challenge. Not for the gear.
Just by doing the dungeons and sometimes helping out with other peoples dungeons I’ve been gathering plenty of tokens over time naturally without grinding which I think is what was intended.
You aren’t meant to grind continuously for tokens but rather naturally gain them over time by doing the content with various people. Why the rush? Why can’t people just enjoy the content for what it is. Go in with friends when you feel like doing a run. As long as your friends in game are semi competent and you have good communication going it’s doable.
And once you’ve done the content once, you know tactics and it gets easier each time and it’s very satisfying to help others through the content that you worked so hard for figuring out.
As I said before, Artificially delaying the inevitable and creating an actual challenge are two different things. In other words: Repeating a Dungeon multiple times is delaying the inevitable – the inevitable being no content left to do or no content desirable enough to do.
Also, sets are optional!!! OPTIONAL!! If you dont want to grind dungeons here are some advice for you:
- Run each one of them a few times to get exp, gold and a couple of token items.
- Run them until you get borred.
- Do something else you enjoy. sPvP, WvW, crafting. exploration… you name it.
- If you dont enjoy anything of the above, them my beloved mmo hopper its time to jump to your next game.Bottom line. No need to grind for cosmetic items! You can play without them and be as competitive! believe it or not some people like to try hard in order to achieve something and since that something is cosmetic its fine by me.
The same people complaining that the dungeons are a grind now will complain that they got all sets in one week and have nothing else to do if Anet makes them easy.
“Yeah you casual kittens, learn your place. Nice things are not for you. Stand aside and watch grown-ups play.”
Seriously, where does this come from?
MMOs from 10 years ago?
You can’t feel the special snowflake you are if you don’t have pauldrons the size of a lamp to prove it?What’s wrong with casuals to get nice items, especially in a game that’s not supposed to be overly gear oriented? Not grindy? You know, for casuals too?
Nice items is still possible they didnt change the badge drop rate from what im reading. Such that everyone will have the gear at some point. The question would be when do you want the gear?
If you goal is to be in full Explorable mode dungeon gear from CoF in 2 days, well thats possible, it takes time but it can be done. The major issue comes from not all time commitments are the similar. You can get bersker crafted armor much quicker than you can arah set with weapons.
Perosnally, i think the drops needs to be increased for chest rewards such that it doesnt feel like the only reason to run the place is for badges and what used to be cash. Doing events is a far better way to level imo, however, its hard to do that when NONE of the events are ever allowed to be anywhere but pushed.
I don’t mind doing all three path’s in any dungeon, hell, I would do them all day every day if it was a universal token, but I Just don’t want to feel “frustrated” doing it, because time is short, dungeon’s are too long, money is low, death’s are too expensive and mobs are just overly powerfull slowing you to a crawl. Overall, your failing on a scale not seen since WoW’s cataclysm.
People want entertainment…. they want fun, a reason to do something and we don’t mind doing stuff that can take month’s, if it’s worth doing for the reward, look at the many people who did “Insane” title in wow.
Make the dungeon’s fun and then balance the cost of reward tokens around people’s fun. You’ll have a happier playerbase.
Best change yet. Thank you for this.
Grinding dungeons isn’t fun for most of us and seeing people walk away with full dungeon sets with little actual effort – or even worse, being turned down from groups because I didnt want to speed run the dungeon over and over – was a little disheartening.
As a more casual player who still has an interest in the dungeon challenges, I applaud this change. Talking to my guild in chat this morning – they universally agree.
Yeah. 30+ hours and around 100 runs to get a full set. If that is little effort to you I wonder what you consider a big effort? A medium effort?
By little effort, I meant cherry picking the absolutely easiest path and speed running it over and over while others who mix it up and actually tackle the different paths (and usually put in much more effort) watch as the speed runners walk away with full sets in less than a week – with considerably less effort.
They are not taking away the ability to run concurrently for a set – they are just making it harder to run the EXACT SAME PATH 500 times in a row just because it is the easiest.
If you really want that set from CoF, you can still focus solely on that set – you just have to mix it up a little. Dont just requeue for the same path over and over and over (and over).
It makes actually earning the gear more meaningful in my opinion.
I finished Sorrow’s Embrace 3 hours ago.
Now I finished a path of HotW after being 3h doing some events and dragons, and I get 19,90 silver and 133k XP, and not 26s and 177k like the first one.
Care to explain why you say is 30min delay? Cause for me it’s hours already.
Yeah…. I have no idea what you guys want me to do in this game. All nerfing and “farming” restrictions feel like they are created by 13yrs old. I have no problem paying monthly fees if you in return develop the game to be more fun instead of this.
Dungeons and their “tactics” are badly designed when compared to any other game I have played (WoW, WHOL, Rift). I mean even Rift wasn’t groundbreaking new and innovative, but you had hard dungeons that could actually be completed with a good pug groups if all were trying.
Ofc, the answer why is “to buy more gems”?
Why am i surprised most forum posters are so over critical? Seriously this change was greatly needed. So you can’t spam the same path over and over to rush your exotic gear. So? God forbid you have to actually explore the explorable dungeons to get proper rewards. Many people here seem to think that constantly repeating dungeons is the only way to get gear, i myself have a full set of exotic gear and only half of it is from dungeons.
Stop throwing a fit because you think that there isn’t any way for you to ever get gear or gold just because you can’t repeat the same 30 min to 1 hour of content to get it. It’s only a grind if you try to make it one. The game isn’t going to hold your hand, hand you charity loot, and tell you how special you are because the exact same armor as everyone else. If you really feel that the content isn’t fun, fine no one is forcing you to play the minority of the pve content, nor are you currently paying any money to do so, but don’t expect to get everything you want if you don’t put a little effort into it.
Besides, its not like the content is going anywhere, if another update comes out all the dungeon exotics you get wont suddenly become worthless because there’s another teir of dungeons you need to slog through to keep competitive. Experiment, try other paths, other character builds or team combinations, run dungeons to run dungeons, not to gear up.
Why am i surprised most forum posters are so over critical? Seriously this change was greatly needed. So you can’t spam the same path over and over to rush your exotic gear. So? God forbid you have to actually explore the explorable dungeons to get proper rewards. Many people here seem to think that constantly repeating dungeons is the only way to get gear, i myself have a full set of exotic gear and only half of it is from dungeons.
Stop throwing a fit because you think that there isn’t any way for you to ever get gear or gold just because you can’t repeat the same 30 min to 1 hour of content to get it. It’s only a grind if you try to make it one. The game isn’t going to hold your hand, hand you charity loot, and tell you how special you are because the exact same armor as everyone else. If you really feel that the content isn’t fun, fine no one is forcing you to play the minority of the pve content, nor are you currently paying any money to do so, but don’t expect to get everything you want if you don’t put a little effort into it.
Besides, its not like the content is going anywhere, if another update comes out all the dungeon exotics you get wont suddenly become worthless because there’s another teir of dungeons you need to slog through to keep competitive. Experiment, try other paths, other character builds or team combinations, run dungeons to run dungeons, not to gear up.
The majority of the complaining being done on here is not the difficulty increase, its the notion of GRINDING in a game advertised as a NON-GRINDING GAME. It’s really that simple.
I was a ‘hardcore’ raider in WoW, in a guild that was top 50 in the world when I played. I took one look at how long it would take to get a dungeon set and still haven’t set foot in one besides finishing personal story. I’m currently a little confused as to how I’m going to upgrade my gear. I can craft, but I can’t get fine materials. I’m perpetually poor because farming is impossible and I like to port to my friends often. My other option is to ‘farm’ Karma, which is essentially the same as the dungeon grind if you maximize your route.
I was a ‘hardcore’ raider in WoW, in a guild that was top 50 in the world when I played. I took one look at how long it would take to get a dungeon set and still haven’t set foot in one besides finishing personal story. I’m currently a little confused as to how I’m going to upgrade my gear. I can craft, but I can’t get fine materials. I’m perpetually poor because farming is impossible and I like to port to my friends often. My other option is to ‘farm’ Karma, which is essentially the same as the dungeon grind if you maximize your route.
+1 agree 100%
Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.
If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.
If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn’t kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn’t immediately zero out rewards.
Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.
*Universal Dungeon Tokens.
*Make dungeon rewards based on the popularity of the dungeon.
Keep a global tally of how often dungeons are completed/boss kills that give chests (in case of partial completions) each day.
The next day, offer bonus/penalties to rewards based on the previous days stats. So more challenging, infrequently run dungeons get bonus tokens or something, and easy mode farmed ones aren’t quite as attractive.
Ell, u realise that by helping out friends [yah, helping out as beeing 30 times dead to complete one event is fun!] u’d get this armor by the end of next year which actually gets to the point only thing u can let yourself to for next 1 year is this dungeon coz orr reqs. better gear ? Either i could spam lower dungs and get useless tokens but if u realise, this dungeon was only thing that let u do a bit of endgame so far and drill into it if u just leveled 80.
All these people saying how the changes are justified. Please justify spending 2~4 hours of your time in a dungeon only to get 7 silver in return (+loots would total to roughly 15s post-death/repair if applicable*)
I would not object to increased difficulty if the rewards were appropriate for the effort put in. Given the developer post, I certainly hope they do make these two scale accordingly because right now, there is no reason for me to do ANY dungeon bar CoF for my Gift of Baelfire.
Thank you for ruining Dungeons COMPLETELY!
1. No gold from dungeons
2. No exp from dungeons
3. No fun from dungeons
4. No drop from dungeons
5. Ugly skins from tokens
6. more deaths because of dungeon difficulty after patch
nothing to do here."
They are killing it for me.
Dungeons are now just COST! There is NO gain whatsoever!
Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.
If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.
If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn’t kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn’t immediately zero out rewards.
Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.
Imo you guys should really shy away from transparent mechanics. Games should be easy to understand, and people shouldn’t be worrying about mechanics going on ‘behind the scenes’.
Cool Jon, but still do You realise it’s impossible for casualls to reach endgame content by time it does take ? Also it’s not fun to die, just that.
I’m okay with the difficulty and the changes regarding updating the easy paths to be more on par with the rest. I’m tired of groups wanting to do nothing but Mag path and getting mad when your group can’t finish a dungeon in under 15 minutes. I still think the actual drops are sub par and should be unique vs what you can get just roaming around doing events in the open world. I also think the game could benefit from making some dungeons semi-casual friendly, productive but have significantly less drops/tokens/coin/ect, that way you aren’t barring all these people from an entire aspect of gameplay and people still won’t feel the need to farm one dungeon path all the time. In most other games, people seem to be okay with some zones that are only doable by organized groups as long as they have some of the same kind of content they can experience too.
Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.
If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.
If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn’t kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn’t immediately zero out rewards.
Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.
Let me tell you something. The way you increased difficulty in 2nd path of CoF is just idiotic. It had to be increased but not by stupid and idiotic way as you guys did.
And to encourage others to try other paths – why just not FIX the broken ones that are completely not rewarding considering time and effort put to complete them.
Using brains does not hurt, trust me.
You shot in your own knee with this patch imo.
If the ppl LIKE TO GRIND WHY u didnt let us grind?!
now i have no motivation for innis anymore.
So without any meaningful changes to the paths to make their difficulties normalized, people are punished for wanting spending more time in a already flawed dungeon system (albeit grinding)…
Ludicrous. How about just remove all rewards from dungeons? Including but not limited to exp, loot, tokens, and delete all existing tokens and set items that players already obtained. Because obviously the “challenge” itself is worth of doing dungeons, and dungeons will never “not feel like a grind” if there are unique material rewards for completing them.
Best change yet. Thank you for this.
Grinding dungeons isn’t fun for most of us and seeing people walk away with full dungeon sets with little actual effort – or even worse, being turned down from groups because I didnt want to speed run the dungeon over and over – was a little disheartening.
As a more casual player who still has an interest in the dungeon challenges, I applaud this change. Talking to my guild in chat this morning – they universally agree.
Yeah. 30+ hours and around 100 runs to get a full set. If that is little effort to you I wonder what you consider a big effort? A medium effort?
By little effort, I meant cherry picking the absolutely easiest path and speed running it over and over while others who mix it up and actually tackle the different paths (and usually put in much more effort) watch as the speed runners walk away with full sets in less than a week – with considerably less effort.
They are not taking away the ability to run concurrently for a set – they are just making it harder to run the EXACT SAME PATH 500 times in a row just because it is the easiest.
If you really want that set from CoF, you can still focus solely on that set – you just have to mix it up a little. Dont just requeue for the same path over and over and over (and over).
It makes actually earning the gear more meaningful in my opinion.
I would absolutely love to run multiple paths and do different dungeons to get gear. But the fact of the matter is that Anet made it so doing it that way is extremely counter-productive in pretty much every bad way possible.
When something takes as much time to get as the dungeon sets of course people are going to look for the easiest way to get them, the path of least resistance. Not everyone enjoys running the same dungeon 100 times, same path or otherwise to get the gear they want. So they look to minimize the time spent in the dungeon.
CoF magg path was definitely the easiest. But that doesn’t mean it was actually all that easy. Just the easiest and fastest. It was still time consuming and if you got a bad group it would make a run a nightmare to finish before the buffs.
Now..? I don’t think I would even consider doing it again. I’m glad I got my CoF set done and I couldn’t care less if people think I put in “a little effort” to get it. Because I like it and that’s all that matters to me. I just feel sorry for people that didn’t have the (mis)fortune to be able to put 30+ hours into the game during the last week to get their sets completed. Because Anet just made the grind all that much more tedious for them.
(edited by fellyn.5083)
The big potential problem I see with making tokens universal is that people will simply farm the “fastest” dungeon to get what they want. Let’s face it, before the patch the only reason to do any other dungeon except CoF was the people who wanted another skin. If they introduced universal tokens instead of the anti-speedrun system, there would be noone doing any other dungeon except CoF.
There will never be a permanent solution to stop farming. There will always be a certain way to do things quicker then other ways. The danger of simply nerfing any way to farm is that it becomes ridiculously hard for “normal” players to get anything.
Let’s take UW in GW1 as an example. People farmed that place a lot for ectos during the early days and in response Anet significantly lowered the drop rate of ectos. The only really fast way to get any ectos was using the 55 monk (if I remember correctly) at that point. Then when Anet nerfed the 55 monk that was over too.
The end result was that people indeed had to use good coordinated teams to do an UW run, as Arenanet intended. But the cost was that, because the ecto drop rate wasn’t increaded again, it took ridiculously long to get Obsidian Armor. Far longer then I believe Arenanet originally intended (why else would the ecto drop rate have been so high in the beginning?). This of course discouraged everyone but the most hardened players to try to get it, or people simply bought the ectos from goldsellers.
What I’m trying to say is that fighting farming usually leaves the people who wanted to play this sort of content for fun in the dust, while the farmers are unsatisfied since they feel forced into playing a certain way. But I also agree that the dungeon armors should require a time investment, not everybody should get them, otherwise they wouldn’t be special anymore.
So why not REWARD playing the “good” way instead of just discouraging the speedfarms. The way I see it Anet wanted players to do the different paths of a certain dungeon to get their dungeon armor, so give extra rewards (tokens, gold and maybe even karma) each time a person completes the 3 paths of a dungeon. Instead of fighting the speedfarms, which leaves everyone unsatisfied, make players “farm” in the way you want them to play. Sure, some people will still get their dungeon armor a lot faster then other, but surely you can’t blame them for doing the 3 different paths of a dungeon repeatedly. I feel this way, it would discourage speedfarming a single path, while “normal” players who wanted the dungeon armors aren’t punished for the actions of speedfarmers.
Why doesn’t everyone just read the first post of this thread and realize they’re doing their best to fix the dungeons so that they’re all on par. This was a quick fix for the people farming that one path.
For those complaining about the grind, it’s not a gear grind. You can just as easily not do any of this and be competitive in WvW and other forms of PvE. But, of course, impatience and intolerance is expected from a group of gamers who were finally told they could play their way only to be barred on occasion because of design flaws that are trying to be fixed.
And no slack was cut. Perfection demanded, and when not delivered, dealt with harshly.
I really advise everyone to take a step back and appreciate that they’re actively working to make the game better, not appease the voice in your head saying “I want everything right now, all the legendaries, to do every dungeon in 15 minutes, and feel special even though everyone else has what I have n…oh…crap…make things harder, quick, so I’m a special snowflake!!”
harder + less rewards = great math!
Hello!
Can I know point of all dungeon “update” or better word is Wasting ? Many story in dungeon is buged or imposimble to finish it or to hard. Many ppl play only one “posible” story in CoF (Magg), yes is rly easy but now is after “update” is buged (Magg on fire river go in to fire => Suicide and we cant do anything and if we got luck, on Explosive plantig on 90% we get pwned with more than 20 Silver Mobs = Suicide or we must try “Ress Train” tactic).
What is real point of Dungeons ? My idea and idea of all players is fun, equip a gold but real experience is angry, wasting time and golds wasting.
Thanks for explain this situation
Like I said before, why not have better incentives for people to actually want to finish dungeons, instead of just needing to grind tokens. The reward at the end of a path should be much greater than the chests throughout the run. Do this and there will be no issue with people wanting to try different paths or progressing through. Even if the dungeon is fun and challenging its a fact that no one will do it unless the reward is worth it.
Let me clarify the change a bit since not everyone understands it.
If you run the exact same chain twice in a row you will have your rewards cut. This means you can bounce back and forth between 2 different chains, even in the same dungeon without ever hitting this change. This change is made to encourage people to try different chains.
If you speed clear dungeons at a rate of more than 2/ hour, and continue to do that for some time your rewards will slowly begin to degrade. It doesn’t kick in after running a single dungeon and it doesn’t immediately zero out rewards.
Finally we reduced the value of repeating the story mode, because they are built to be easier and we want to encourage those repeating dungeons to run explore mode.
Thank you for the clarification. That does make sense. But why do you see a need to cut xp from story mode drastically when so many people can only complete the story modes?
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